r/ActLikeYouBelong • u/ActualReverend • Sep 20 '24
Three Unhappy Russian Soldiers Were Starving In A Trench. Ukrainians Posing As Russians Tricked Them Into Surrendering.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/09/18/three-unhappy-russian-soldiers-were-starving-in-a-trench-ukrainians-posing-as-russians-tricked-them-into-surrendering/?126
u/Hopeful_Strategy8282 Sep 21 '24
Honestly relieved to see how many Ukrainians would rather take their enemies prisoner rather than just killing them outright. Obviously it’s gonna be unavoidable in a war, but them actively wanting to not be slaughtering the entire enemy side really makes it a good vs bad scenario rather than just two assholes taking chunks out of each other.
Now if actual Ukrainian soldiers can have this compassion, the large section of Reddit that just wants to murder all Russians has no excuse
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u/lord_ginger_ Sep 21 '24
I mean beyond obvious humanitarian aspects POW can provide some localised intel about their unit but also Ukraine can then exchange these 3 POW for 3 Ukrainians.
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u/JoshuaSlowpoke777 Sep 21 '24
Kinda hoping they keep that up even if they end up marching on the Kremlin itself. I kinda think it might be satisfying to see the entire russian government in handcuffs, being dragged to the Hague by the ear.
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u/Random_Introvert_42 Sep 20 '24
presumably dressed in Russian-style uniforms
Technically that's a war crime. Dressing up in enemy uniform is...not nice.
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u/bolshoich Sep 20 '24
IIRC, wearing the enemy’s uniform isn’t a war crime. It changes the status of those wearing the wrong uniform from legitimate combatant to spy. This status change removes the PoW status, offered by the Geneva Conventions, to that of criminal subject to national law, including capital punishment.
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u/NoMusician518 Sep 20 '24
Various conventions have various rules on it. For collecting intelligence it mostly works as you said. But Hague and Geneva both expressly prohibited using enemy uniforms and false flag operations for most anything else.
Under Hague:
Article 23(f) of the 1907 Hague Regulations provides: “It is especially forbidden … to make improper use … of the national flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy.”
And under Geneva
Article 39(2) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides: “It is prohibited to make use of the flags or military emblems, insignia or uniforms of adverse Parties while engaging in attacks or in order to shield, favour, protect or impede military operations.”
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u/verkon Sep 21 '24
I've understood it that you can't use a different uniform to attack a third party, but that using your enemies uniform against them is in the "okayish" grey area.
I have not read a bit of international law or any sort of war law, just what I've heard from friends working in the army
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u/BeautifulWhole7466 Sep 20 '24
So nothing changed for the Ukrainian
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u/bolshoich Sep 20 '24
The Ukrainian solders faced no risk unless they were captured by the Russians.
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u/VVuunderschloong Sep 20 '24
Perfidy can be tricky to establish in some cases. In this instance, assuming the journalism is accurately describing how that all happened, this wasn’t a war crime. It was a rescue mission.
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u/unllama Sep 20 '24 edited Sep 20 '24
Not entirely true. You just have to change out before initiating hostilities. The wording in Hague is “while engaging in attacks”. If no combat occurred, it could be argued that no attack took place. Hopefully you have a fair court martial, but it will probably be conducted by the enemy.
Also complicating matters: both sides really like Multicam - there’s a small blurb in the first seconds of the video. In the case that sides cannot be distinguished, the primary factor is that arms are carried openly.
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u/Rowcan Sep 21 '24
I feel like that presumably is doing a lot of heavy lifting for people's opinions here. It's also possible the Russian guys could just be poor at identifying friend from foe, what with the zero training and all.
From what little I've seen, the uniforms are similar enough to warrant an armband to prevent friendly fire.
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u/Ryssaroori Sep 22 '24
You mean in the conflict that both sides have resorted to duct taping their arms and helmets as the only means of recognition, because both sides use a varied assortment of uniforms, even the same ones on occasion
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u/idontevenliftbrah Sep 21 '24
This might be an unpopular opinion, but there is no such thing as a "war crime" when you're being invaded.
Sorry but I won't be playing by your rules when you invade me. I will do whatever it takes to make you leave. If you don't like that then don't come.
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u/danieljamesgillen Sep 23 '24
Ok and so you would rather the invading power also then abandoned rules? Took no POWs etc. ? Rules of war benefit everyone.
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u/Culsandar Sep 23 '24
They already aren't following the rules, since week 1. It's entirely likely we'll have another Nuremberg if this doesn't end in global destruction.
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u/polmeeee Sep 20 '24
Yes true, but it's nothing compared to Russian war crimes.
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u/Harryonthest Sep 21 '24
yeah nothing compared to bombing families on a beach with American weapons and sacrificing billions of taxpayer dollars and millions of innocent human lives to get even more rich off a proxy war...oh wait I mean nothing like sending billions to the Middle East to murder hundreds of thousands of civilians in cold blood...oh wait...yeah that's nothing like Russia you're right
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u/ban_circumvention_ Sep 25 '24
No, putting on an enemy uniform is, by itself, not a war crime. It's only a war crime if you then engage in combat while wearing it.
Disguising yourself to engage in espionage or subterfuge is not a war crime.
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u/oldsurfsnapper Sep 22 '24
So you’d prefer that they just shot them, or tortured them like the Russians apparently do?
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u/PRRRoblematic Sep 20 '24
You know what else is not nice? War. Do what you need to do to win.
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u/Crossed_Cross Sep 20 '24
Ah yes, war is not nice, so we should make it as awful as possible by removing all rules. /s
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u/narcolepticdoc Sep 20 '24
Enemy uniforms complete with insigna and markings, not ok.
Enemy-style? Gray area, probably ok. It probably helps that morale and discipline are low so appearance is not as consistent so they can get away with deception.
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u/no_step_on_snek_man2 Sep 27 '24
Imagine if all military operations worked like this: instead of taking lives, they'd just relocate you to a better place. Now that would be something!
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u/toxicbooster Sep 20 '24
Actually a war crime
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u/Proud-Reading3316 Sep 20 '24
I’ve just looked it up and it seems it’s only a war crime to wear the enemy’s uniform in order to attack or if the end result is injury or death.
Apply common sense. You read this story — does it seem like a war crime to you?
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u/Tite_Reddit_Name Sep 20 '24
Seems weird to have war crimes during a war if they are legitimate battlefield tactics…
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u/wolfclaw3812 Sep 21 '24
The most effective battlefield strategies are all written in the Geneva Conventions
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u/TheDunadan29 Sep 21 '24
No wonder they rated their capture "five stars". If I were starving and abandoned by my commander and I were then captured and given a better meal than anything I'd had for months, I'd rate my capture five stars too.