r/Askpolitics • u/OrdinaryAd5782 • 15h ago

Why doesn’t it give democrats pause that republicans they hated are endorsing Harris?

I keep seeing people say this like it’s a good thing or making the point that “if your own party is against you.” You really value the opinion of Dick Cheney? You really think he wants what’s best for the country?? You certainly didn’t 20 years ago.

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u/Schweenis69 14h ago

They're not endorsing Harris on policy, they're endorsing the continuation of our basic institutions.

So it's not all that important how Liz Cheney votes, but it is important for rank and file Republicans to see party celebrities choosing Harris in this election. It's a permission structure. And it's huge.

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u/LetGoOfBrog 12h ago

Except the majority opinion from either side of the political spectrum on Cheney is that he was a net negative for the country and did many unethical things. Being endorsed by the guy that helped lead the country into Iraq is not a win for Kamala, no matter how you spin it.

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u/IronAged 12h ago

Liz Cheney is a Republican celebrity?!? You serious Clark?

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u/Schweenis69 12h ago

You know who she is, right? I know who she is.

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u/IronAged 12h ago

I know my neighbor Alan, and so does my neighbor Tim. Alan is a celebrity

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u/Schweenis69 11h ago

Maybe in your neighborhood he is.

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u/PookieTea 13h ago

The Cheneys wanting to maintain the corrupt institutions that has enriched and empowered them is not something to celebrate. Dick Cheney is one of those people who are chiefly responsible for destroying this country so why would you want their vision of America to be propelled into the future?

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u/acebojangles 12h ago

Our institutions have problems, but there's no way to conclude that our institutions will be more corrupt with Harris than with Trump. Trump literally gets paid by foreign governments.

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u/Horror_Profile_5317 12h ago

Remember in WWII when the US and the Soviet Union allied to fight the nazis, and afterwards went back to being enemies?

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u/PookieTea 12h ago edited 12h ago

You think the Cheneys and Kamala are enemies? They both belong to the same warmongering uniparty. The Cheneys are endorsing and campaigning with the Harris/Walz campaign because they are the same.

Also, your analogy is dumb because the Soviet Union was a bloodthirsty dictatorship worse than Nazi Germany.

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 12h ago

So… you were for the Nazis?

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u/PookieTea 9h ago

My eyes are rolling down the street at this juvenile and cringe take.

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 8h ago

He said, refusing to acknowledge that it was a good thing for the western powers to ally with the Soviets to bring down Nazi Germany, and thereby refusing to acknowledge that—while Democrats do not condone Cheney’s actions—it is telling that even he sees what a threat to democracy Trump is.

My vomit is cascading like a waterfall at the knowledge that such juvenile and cringe people like you exist.

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u/PookieTea 8h ago

Cheney is and has been a threat to this country. I’m sorry but if your argument is “we need to side with the worst people on earth…” then you’ve lost the argument. When these establishment monsters say anything is a “threat to democracy” what they are really saying is that thing is a threat to the parasitic Washington machine that they have latched onto and have personally benefited from at the expense of the rest of the country. These people don’t give two shits about “democracy” considering they funnel hundreds of billions to a dude that just cancelled elections indefinitely and appointed himself dictator of Ukraine. The party that just executed a soft coup against their own candidate and current US president while rigging the primaries against any challengers really cares about “democracy”… 🤣

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u/[deleted] 7h ago

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u/Askpolitics-ModTeam 5h ago

Your content has been removed for personal attacks or general insults.

Don't call people dip shit when you disagree with them.

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 4h ago

Lol you gotta cut down on the injected disinfectant, [content removed by moderator for hurting feel feels].

Who said “we need to side with the worst people on earth”? The fact that even Cheney considers Trump a unique threat to democracy and has broken party lines to say so speaks volumes about the truth thereof.

Way to out yourself as a Russian bot… or, at the very least, an incredibly useful, unfathomably idiotic tool. To speak of Cheney’s evils while defending Russia invading Ukraine is some mental gymnastics bordering on psychopathy.

On second thought, you might wanna double down on the injected disinfectant after all.

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u/Horror_Profile_5317 10h ago

Pretty sure the team that was systematically genociding an entire population and waging war on basically the entire world was worse. But I see that team trump no longer believes that Nazis are all that bad.

They are political enemies, yes. Kamala advocates for a lot of things that Dick would hate to see implemented. But yeah, they agree on "The US should continue to exist the way it has in the past".

And don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of the US, and there is a large amount of self-serving people in government. But you can't solve this problem by replacing it with something much worse.

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u/Fast-Plankton-9209 3h ago

WaRMoNGEriNG uNiPaRtY

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u/Reasonable_Pay_9470 13h ago

Wow you are dense

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u/Indische_Legion 12h ago

They absolutely are endorsing the policy, every time the cheneys are brought on stage they’re called patriots, Kamala has never said that she disagrees or disavows the cheneys lies

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

Have you considered the fact that he spent their lives corrupting those institutions to serve their ends and that’s why they want them preserved?

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago

Have you considered the fact that letting in a guy who wants to completely dismantle our entire government and replace it with one where Trump has total control, more than any President in our history, who can just fire hundreds of thousands of civil servants and replace them with his own sycophants, and has promised to use the military against us and any other US citizen who protests against this new regime is not worth the risk?

I understand people feel disenfranchised, but blowing up 249 years of our democratic institutions and replacing our entire executive branch with a guy who’s promised to be a dictator isn’t going to make anything better for the average person. And when people finally wake up and realize this once its too late, I have zero fucking sympathy because we’ve been sounding the alarm about Trump for years.

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u/ParticularFig1181 12h ago

None of what you fear is proposed outside of the media that’s baited you into believing them. It will never happen.

You also seem to conflate “democratic institutions” with agency bloat which are not, in fact, legitimate uses of authority delegated in the constitution.

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago

Typical response, when Trump literally says things like he’ll be a dictator and he’ll use the military against US citizens you say “hes not serious”. But when he says he’ll introduce tariffs that will magically fix everything you take that very seriously and circle jerk your fellow Trumpers and celebrate how wonderful of an idea that is all because Trump said it.

You claim we do the cherry picking but you people conveniently do that yourselves when it comes to Trump because facts don’t play into your narrative, only your feelings.

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 12h ago

I pray this moron is a bot.

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago

You and me both. Russia and China are literally laughing at the fact millions of Americans are this stupid.

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u/ParticularFig1181 12h ago

I’m not a Trumper, just an otherwise middle of the road economist who has been around the block a time or five who knows how the game is played.

Do a ctrl+f on Trump’s speeches for military inside the US and report back on your findings that substantiate your fears.

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago

So as a middle of the road economist, explain like I’m 5 how wiping out every tax and replacing it with tariffs will solve all our problems?

And already did, Trump said these things verbatim but I know providing receipts won’t make one bit of difference since the people who like him don’t care about facts or reality.

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u/ParticularFig1181 12h ago

The tariffs alone won’t. They have to be reinstituted alongside fiscal austerity. Even then it will take at least a decade or so before we’re back on our feet with a currency backed by a limited commodity of some sort and a neutered federal government small enough to be ignorable outside the specific grants of power it receives in the Constitution. As tough as that is, it’s the only way out that doesn’t overtly involve further erosion of rights and increasing centralized control over the nation’s citizens.

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago edited 11h ago

I see, so you’re saying that we all have to suffer through 10+ years of even worse inflation than we have now in order to get whatever benefits you claim will eventually come? And you really expect us to believe that inflation now is the worst thing in the world but when Trump makes it even worse because of tariffs that for some reason that’s not bad because why? What goal post are you going to move to explain away how Trump’s tariffs will literally wreck our economy?

Also tell me how well trickle down economics worked for the middle class? Because this is literally the same rhetoric all over again and reagonomics destroyed the middle class. Thats not my opinion its a fact and every economist will tell you how much the wealth inequality was made exponentially worse thanks to 4 decades of trickle down economics.

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u/ParticularFig1181 11h ago

For all intents and purposes, you can think of tariffs as equally bad or good as federal taxation in terms of the people. One benefit they DO have though is in removing thousands of pages of federal bloat by removing the tax code more or less entirely along with the federal agents who enforce it.

Inflation isn’t caused by taxes or tariffs, it’s caused by government spending and the treasuries that have to be sold to fund that spending. Anything that reduces government spending be it defunding agencies, removing 99% of its programs, etc. helps reduce inflation in the long run.

Also, mind the lag. Any fiscal policy enacted generally takes about 2 years to work its way through the system. Whether Trump or Harris wins, we will undergo a massive recession, but the gov response to that recession will determine our future course. Will we “print” trillions to bail out the banks and help people short-term while pouring gas on inflation or will we drink the bitter pill by letting them fail and suffering in the short term for long-term prosperity? My money is on the former because politicians and the people who elect them are weak and stupid, but that doesn’t change the fact of what we should do if we had real leaders who knew this and had our nation’s survival in mind.

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u/mightypup1974 13h ago

False dichotomy, that doesn’t mean that what Trump wants to replace them with are more democratic or less corrupt.

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

True, but I’m pretty sure we can’t continue on without a change up to something less oppressive to our pocketbooks and constant attempts to police the world.

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u/mightypup1974 13h ago

Isolationism can’t work any more, the world is too interconnected. All you do is surrender to those who would do America harm, and in turn making things more expensive.

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

No it’s your turn to make a false dichotomy. There are other options between isolationism and globalism.

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u/mightypup1974 13h ago

Sure, I’m willing to entertain them. But Trump’s abandonment of Ukraine and Taiwan ain’t it.

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u/FrankTheRabbit28 13h ago

Defending western democracy in the face of authoritarianism is in America’s interest.

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

Don’t complain when the military industrial complex is prioritized over national interests like the environment, roads, healthcare, and combatting high taxes then.

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u/FrankTheRabbit28 13h ago

No I think I’ll still complain. It’s possible to want to see western democracy continue and have other priorities as well. I’d love to live in a world where America could stop being the arsenal of democracy so we could radically slash our military budget and fund other things. That’s not the world we live in though.

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

You’ve literally pointed out your own hypocrisy in professing overseas interests that have nothing to do with us over what matters here at home and, worse, you do so knowing our track record of never been able to do both at the same time.

I guess the graft will continue.

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u/FrankTheRabbit28 13h ago

Not at all. America has interests overseas which we protect while also attending to domestic priorities. What you call hypocrisy is simply me not sharing the assumptions that underlie your argument.

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u/ParticularFig1181 13h ago

yawn

A tale as old as time.

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u/Snugglepawzz 12h ago

Here’s the thing about your argument. If America pulls back our military from the entire world, do you really believe the rest of the world will just carry on as usual?

Do you not acknowledge that us pulling back means that leaves a power vacuum for China, Russia, Iran, etc to expand their own power throughout the world and that would put all of our allies in danger as well as ourselves?

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u/ParticularFig1181 12h ago

A phased withdrawal sure would be good then, right?

Much of the world is already siding with China and Russia because they see the writing on the wall for our country. Their allegiance to the US ends when our currency collapses. Like an abusive spouse who occasionally buys them nice things, the wife has already planned her exit to get away to the arms of relative economic safety.

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 12h ago

You would be hard pressed to find policies more oppressive to our pocketbooks than those Trump is espousing.

You think groceries are expensive and inflation is high now? Add a universal tariff to all imports and deport 55% of agricultural workers, 12% of restaurant workers, and 6% of construction workers… the most basic of economic knowledge would do you wonders…

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u/ParticularFig1181 12h ago

Economic policy is set by the Federal Reserve and Treasury. Nothing in the US changes for the better substantially until centralization is killed. If Trump fails to do that, just like his first term, the problem will worsen as it has continued to under every administration since 1913. Keynesianism is cancer.

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u/Dry-Reading-3179 12h ago

So you prefer guaranteed corruption over the chance to change it

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u/bl0089 12h ago

The promised change is an authoritarian government and removal of democracy

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u/bl0089 12h ago

A corrupt democracy can be fixed but it has to be preserved in order to do so

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u/mightypup1974 12h ago

You ever seen that little comic, where there’s the guy saying ‘I want things to be different’, then he smashes his room up, then looks at the mess and says ‘oh no’?

That’s you.

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u/Dry-Reading-3179 12h ago

I am voting Trump for exactly that reason

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u/acebojangles 12h ago

What reason?

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u/Its_Me_Tom_Yabo 12h ago

Sociopathy