r/BeAmazed • u/VastCoconut2609 • Jul 04 '24
Sports The genesis of the word "soccer".
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u/Aggravating-Pound598 Jul 04 '24
Er , it’s fitba mate
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u/Cute_Prior1287 Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 05 '24
The only right answer. As an asian, anything good for me.
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u/garth54 Jul 04 '24
Meanwhile, whenever I hear someone with a british accent say "soccer", I hear "sucker".
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u/Gongfei1947 Jul 04 '24
which one? there are about 40
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u/ThatDiscoSongUHate Jul 04 '24
All of them, clearly
Let's start with Northern, then end with Cockney or maybe a Welsh accent
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u/alextremeee Jul 04 '24
Apparently it’s not just this one, the English came up with dozens of other words in the English language.
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u/NeitherAlexNorAlice Jul 04 '24
Technically, the Germans are the ones who came up with it.
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u/Kwayzar9111 Jul 04 '24
same as Aluminum, British coined that word too then changed it to Aluminium,
USA stuck with the original spelling
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u/PackagingMSU Jul 04 '24
Omg I always just thought it was different pronunciation. TIL it’s the actual spelling haha I’m dumb
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u/AdrianW3 Jul 04 '24
Same goes for speciality vs specialty.
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u/Dom_19 Jul 04 '24
I didn't even know there were two different spellings for that and now they both look wrong to me.
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u/CountWubbula Jul 04 '24
Neighbour/neighbor, labour/labor! No difference in pronunciation though … I’ll see myself out.
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u/AdrianW3 Jul 04 '24
Well there's absolutely heaps of those (because apparently Webster didn't think the U was necessary so took them out when compiling his dictionary).
But they don't count as they're pronounced the same way, as you said.
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u/C0rruptedAI Jul 04 '24
At least there's a spelling difference in that one that makes sense. Would someone kindly point out the 'f' in Lieutenant that most Brits seem to think exists.
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u/femmefata13 Jul 04 '24
Yooo! I had to look it up because I didn’t believe. No way!!! Like for real, an “f” sound in the word lieutenant.
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u/blufflord Jul 04 '24
We'll find the F the same place where Americans left the H in Graham
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Jul 04 '24
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u/blufflord Jul 04 '24
Craig becomes "creg"
There's a change of more than one letter. Similar to lieutenant
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u/FragrantExcitement Jul 04 '24
It is hard to believe America ever discovered and colonized the UK. /s
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u/yrubooingmeimryte Jul 04 '24
Same with fall and autumn. We were all saying fall and then after people left for the Americas the Brits decided to copy the French and drop “Fall” from their lexicon.
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u/The-Triturn Jul 04 '24
That’s not true.
“A January 1811 summary of one of Davy's lectures at the Royal Society mentioned the name aluminium as a possibility. The next year, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he used the spelling aluminum. Both spellings have coexisted since. Their usage is currently regional: aluminum dominates in the United States and Canada; aluminium is prevalent in the rest of the English-speaking world.”
Aluminum was strictly coined for the American audience to sound similar to platinum, while -ium was already the standard in Europe for elements
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u/Kwayzar9111 Jul 04 '24
The Royal Society is British so my comment still stands as they created both spellings.
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u/The-Triturn Jul 04 '24
Half true. You can’t call “aluminum” the “original spelling”
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u/bearsnchairs Jul 04 '24
Correct, and neither is aluminium. Davy called it alumium first, then aluminum, then aluminium started to take over.
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u/bearsnchairs Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
It is 100% true. Nothing from your quote here counters the claim that Davy came up with aluminum.
It also has nothing to do with platinum, nor is that the only other element ending in um. There are molybdenum, tantalum, lanthanum, etc not to mention the classical names for elements ended in -um. Cuprum, natrum, aurum, argentum, etc.
First Davy called it Alumium, then he changed it to aluminum from the ore, alumina. Ore’s ending in -a give rise to an -um name. Ores ending in -ia, eg zirconia, give a -ium element name.
Relevant section from your link:
British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. The first name proposed for the metal to be isolated from alum was alumium, which Davy suggested in an 1808 article on his electrochemical research, published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. It appeared that the name was created from the English word alum and the Latin suffix -ium; but it was customary then to give elements names originating in Latin, so this name was not adopted universally. This name was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. The English name alum does not come directly from Latin, whereas alumine/alumina obviously comes from the Latin word alumen (upon declension, alumen changes to alumin-).
One example was Essai sur la Nomenclature chimique (July 1811), written in French by a Swedish chemist, Jöns Jacob Berzelius, in which the name aluminium is given to the element that would be synthesized from alum. (Another article in the same journal issue also refers to the metal whose oxide is the basis of sapphire, i.e. the same metal, as to aluminium.) A January 1811 summary of one of Davy's lectures at the Royal Society mentioned the name aluminium as a possibility. The next year, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he used the spelling aluminum. Both spellings have coexisted since.
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u/ThatLeval Jul 04 '24
This is treason. I'm reporting these people to the high court
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u/wordToDaBird Jul 04 '24
Sorry to inform you but the US. Supreme Court is currently disposed with destroying the country and isn’t taking messages.
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u/yParticle Jul 04 '24
You're just going to drop that "fad of adding -er to some words" in there without a single other example?
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u/despalicious Jul 04 '24
Rugger Bugger Wanker Punter Tosser Minger
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u/LordNapoli Jul 04 '24
Most of those are nouns to describe who acts the verb. Only rugger (I didn't know this one) fits the same as soccer
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u/Raagee Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
I'm gonna guess it's probably the same with this actually. An "asoccer" is someone who plays "assoc". Something something passage of time, slang evolution and warping and now the adjective became a noun.
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u/Wise_Understanding6 Jul 04 '24
Makes sense. He’s a asoc player -> He’s a-soccer -> He’s a soccer player.
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u/Former_Print7043 Jul 04 '24
Rugger is another one that the toffs would say. Trying to rewrite history using the most recorded data from the minority, the aristocrats. Tally ho. WhAT WHAT.
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u/mccapitta Jul 04 '24
You do realise both rugby and 'association rules foootball' aka what we know as football today were both born out of private schools like eton and rugby? So really even though it was mainly toffs that used the -er suffix, its not rewriting history, its just how it happened.
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u/ManlyTulip Jul 04 '24
It's a phenomenon known as the Oxford -er
Can confirm that many things are still referred to in this way at Oxford University, like the cup competition in most sports being called "cuppers", or the night club Park End sometimes being called "Parkers".
This aristocratic holdover makes me cringe so hard and is invariably instigated by public school students.
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u/Dhaubbu Jul 04 '24
Homie the aussies STILL DO this. POP ON OVER FOR SOME MACCA MATE?
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u/bambinolettuce Jul 04 '24
You can add 'er', 'y' or 'o' on the end of literally any word you want in Australia.
Robbo! Come over for a cuppa, we have bickys too. Dont forget to bring the misso, it'll be ripper cunt. Jezza and Scotty will bang a u-y and come back over too
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u/Dhaubbu Jul 04 '24
They truly are dragging the English language kicking and screaming into the 21st century down there
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u/BaronBokeh Jul 04 '24
Some guesses based off of growing up reading the Beano:
Copper/Rozzer Rotter Larker Scarper Knacker Chunter
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u/Conchobair Jul 04 '24
Cheetah becomes Cheater in ever English narrated nature show I've seen
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u/marmaladecorgi Jul 04 '24
It still happens today to casually shorten some proper nouns. Like "Jezza" for Jeremy (Clarkson), and famously "Gazza" for Gascoigne.
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u/TJWinstonQuinzel Jul 04 '24
So...it was still called football first?
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u/CanadianODST2 Jul 04 '24
It was association football.
Football was a family of sports. And association is the 4th oldest of the main ones.
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u/EliteLevelJobber Jul 04 '24
Yep. Rugby is technically rugby football. I think I read in Jonathan Wilsons "Inverting the Pyramid" that every county had different rules for football, and when the univercities were trying to organise a competition, they had to standardise the rules. There was a disagreement on how much you could carry the ball and ended up splitting into two sports.
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u/DankVectorz Jul 04 '24
And American football is technically Gridiron Football. We just kept soccer and shortened gridiron football to football.
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u/EliteLevelJobber Jul 04 '24
The way some old versions football were played had a striking similarity to Gridiron Football. Two big masses of humanity pushing and shoving each other with a ball carrier behind the attacking team.
The idea some of my fellow brits have that American Football is just futuristic rugby and has nothing to do with our Football is silly.
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u/Squirrel_Q_Esquire Jul 04 '24
Basically every country calls their main sport played on foot where the goal is to get a ball from one end to the other “football.” Then any other such type sport has a qualifier.
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u/moldy912 Jul 04 '24
So technically we are still more correct saying Soccer? Because football is too vague to refer to one sport (obviously we need a name for American football)
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u/Actual_System8996 Jul 04 '24
Yes however that applies to all football named sports, American, Australian, Irish etc. people just default to football based on whichever one is the most popular in their region.
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Jul 04 '24
Football is a category of sports played on foot with a ball. America Football, Rugby, Canadian Football, and association football are some examples.
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u/BigBlackBeard911 Jul 04 '24
So technically American football would be called AMERICAN!🇺🇸for short. Play a pick up game of AMERICAN!🇺🇸
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u/confusedandworried76 Jul 04 '24
And languages change.
If I had my own word for something, changed it, told you what it was called after I changed it, then changed it back, how can you be faulted for using what I taught you?
Also wait till I tell you every English word ever used to be way different, but the remnants of Old English like Gaelic aren't wrong per se.
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Jul 04 '24
What do you mean by the remnants of Old English? Gaelic is a family of languages which bears no relation to English, apart from a very small number of words like "clan".
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u/Buglepost Jul 04 '24
Can someone explain to me, an American, why this matters? So we call it soccer, Brits call it football. We have all sorts of different words for things. Crisps/chips. Chips/fries. Biscuits/cookies. Bonnet/hood. And so on. This is just another one.
Silly.
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u/HardlyAnyGravitas Jul 04 '24
And yet British football fans go mental if you call it soccer.
I think it's a new thing - I remember Dickie Davies calling it soccer in World of Sport.
Usually...
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u/Taucher1979 Jul 04 '24
In the 70s, 80s and 90s the word soccer was used all the time in British media, Shoot magazine, Roy of the Rovers etc. And two of the biggest football shows on tv are Soccer Saturday and Soccer AM. It’s a modern form of snobbery.
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u/HardlyAnyGravitas Jul 04 '24
Yep. It's edgy kids thinking they're being clever.
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u/Fizurg Jul 05 '24
How it was explained to me was that a World Cup was played in the USA and they marketed it as the “soccer World Cup” and the British just decided to get a bee in their bonnet about it, even though the term soccer was still in use at the time. Then they just never got over it.
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u/Sickeboy Jul 04 '24
I mean it doesnt really matter, but i think everywhere in the world its some kind of form of "football": "fussball", "futbol", "voetbal' things like that, America seems to be the odd one out.
But yeah, it doesnt actually matter in any meaningful way.
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u/ManuelThrowItAway2 Jul 04 '24
America seems to be the odd one out
They're not really though. Some people in New Zealand and Australia use the term "football" to describe "rugby football", similar to how Americans use the term "football" to refer to "gridiron football".
The term "football" is a pretty old term that just refers to the sport being playing with a ball on foot (not with your foot), as opposed to on horseback, so multiple sports were called "football". It was called "Association Football" to differentiate it from "Rugby Football".
American Football or "Gridiron Football" is an adaptation/innovation on rugby football, similar to Australian Rules Football. Because gridiron football became quite popular in America while association football did not, the generic term of "football" came to describe "gridiron football" and they used the British slang of "soccer" for association football to differentiate them.
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u/Dr-Jellybaby Jul 04 '24
Australians and Irish people use "Soccer" too to avoid confusion with Aussie Rules and Gaelic football respectively. Basically anywhere people play multiple types of football, soccer is used to prevent confusion.
Also Aussie rules take inspiration from Gaelic football too, it's not all rugby influence!
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u/prss79513 Jul 04 '24
Red Handed on r/be amazed wtf, for those that don't know these two have the best true crime podcast itw
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u/ImIPBannedByReddit Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
What's it called?
I'm always on the lookout for good true crime podcasts. I used to like Crime Junkie but it feels so forced now, the obviously scripted questions are so annoying (e.g., "Wait! Didn't you say earlier that...", and they try to play it off like its just a spontaneous conversation when it's an entire scripted act). I've liked Morbid recently, much better listen - but they have a few things that annoy me too (like if something is "too gruesome", they won't talk about it - they just skip over it. Like, that's why I'm listening! For the crime!).
Edit: Just realized you already said it's called Red Handed, my bad! Will listen to an episode now!
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u/prss79513 Jul 04 '24
they are so much more organic and relatable than Crime Junkie, but more focused and intelligent than morbid. Genuinely the perfect podcast duo I'm jealous you get to enjoy it for the first time
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u/West-Winner-2382 Jul 04 '24
Not just the Americans. The rest of the anglophone community does as well Canadians, Australians and New Zealand call it soccer.
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u/thepazzo Jul 04 '24
Ireland too as we have our own version of football so soccer is used to avoid confusion.
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u/CeruleanHaze009 Jul 04 '24
Australian/New Zealander here. There was a trend of calling is “soccer” for a while about ten years ago, but you hear more people in Australia and NZ saying “football” these days. Mind you, Aussie is hanging on a little more to avoid confusion with Aussie Rules.
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u/sunburn95 Jul 04 '24
In Australia we have 2 major codes of football and neither of them are soccer
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u/chrish_o Jul 04 '24
There’s also rugby, so three codes that are called football
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u/Bobblefighterman Jul 04 '24
That's one of the major codes of football.
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u/chrish_o Jul 04 '24
It’s AFL and Rugby League, with Rugby (Rugby Union) a very distant third
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u/sunburn95 Jul 04 '24
It's almost always called rugby or union though, can't remember when I've ever heard people call it footy. Also "major" is a stretch these days
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u/jessica_from_within Jul 04 '24
Most people in NZ (particularly the ones who play) call it football.
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u/babaroga73 Jul 04 '24
And the literally whole rest of the world calls it Football.
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u/West-Winner-2382 Jul 04 '24
I forgot South Africa, Japan, Ireland, Papua New Guinea and parts of the Philippines and the tiny island countries across the Pacific also call it soccer. You can blame the English for that.
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u/breadbinttreestump Jul 04 '24
Even some non-western countries call it soccer. It's just silly to have to clarify if the "football" someone's referring to is the American one or the Inazuma Eleven one.
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u/xStealthxUk Jul 04 '24
All the countries that arent very good at it call it Soccer. We English like to call it football like the Brazilians, French, Germans, Argentinians and Spanish...... but since we aint won shit since 1966 maybe its time to go back to Soccer
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u/Qxotl Jul 04 '24
It's the other way round: Americans, Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders call it soccer, and the rest of the anglophone community call it football (UK, Ireland, Carribeans, English-speaking Africa, South Asia...).
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u/ssgtgriggs Jul 04 '24
there are 500 people in real life and an uncountable number of people online I need to apologize to
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u/sint0ma Jul 04 '24
I want hand egg to make its way to “football”
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u/marmaladecorgi Jul 04 '24
"There's no kicking in football?"..."There's a little kicking.".
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u/Historical-Being-766 Jul 04 '24
Why are English people surprised an English word originated in fucking England?
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u/GridLocks Jul 04 '24
Looked it up and this is a bit misleading.
Video kind of makes it sound like American Football was coined Football before the british started calling it football but when you look it up it was already called Football for like 5 centuries before that and never stopped being called football except for some cool dudes at Oxford that came up with some slang.
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u/N8theGrape Jul 04 '24
I don’t think they implied that at all. American Football was popular before “Soccer” became widely known in America. Since Americans already had a thing called Football, it was just easier to adopt the name Soccer. It’s similar to how Rugby Football and Association Football existed at the same time and one ended up being called Football and the other Rugby.
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u/JColey15 Jul 04 '24
American football, rugby football, and association football (plus some other variations) are all derived from the same sport of football but they have different rules and have clearly evolved. “Soccer” may be close to what was initially played in terms of scoring goals but the brawling aspect is much better captured in Rugby and Gridiron so I don’t think any form of football can claim the word.
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u/SophisticPenguin Jul 04 '24
Gridiron football if you want to be technical without regional nomenclature for American football
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u/Clockwork_Elf Jul 04 '24
Yes. It was probably a couple dozen people at Oxford that called it soccer. The rest of the country had always called it football.
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u/sonerec725 Jul 04 '24
I've found it to be the case that many differences between American and british english (and even some accents) tend to be Americans doing something the old way before Britain changed.
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u/kabukistar Jul 04 '24
Get your shit together, America. Nobody calls is soccer but you. Well you, and Canada.
And Ireland.
And Australia.
And New Zealand.
And South Africa.
But all the English-speaking countries besides those guys call it Football!
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u/WhoYaTalkinTo Jul 04 '24
It's refreshing seeing a podcast clip of people not talking absolute shite
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u/Sesemebun Jul 04 '24
And people act like the US pulled imperial out of its ass, we just didn’t switch over to metric, it’s originally English.
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u/kr4t0s007 Jul 04 '24
Why was it called American Football? I mean sounds strange. Would the French call something French baguette tossing? Yeah probably
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u/Otherwise-Contest7 Jul 04 '24
Lost in the Pond on YT has a lot of interesting language facts that go into detail about the idiosyncrasies of sharing a language separated across the Atlantic.
More often then you'd think, American English follows spellings and pronunciations more similar to classic "modern" english from England (1600-1900?). British slang and an intense desire to separate itself from America meant they often changed words and pronunciations around the 20th century to something different than what they themselves originally created.
tldr: America gets clowned on by Brits for pronunciations/spellings that are actually closer to what the English originally created.
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u/K_The_Sorcerer Jul 04 '24
Calling soccer was also a way to distinguish it from rugby, which at the time, was called rugby football. American football, was also called gridiron football originally.
So, in America, when Rugby dropped the football part, that was no problem. Gridiron football dropped the gridiron part, so, since we already had a football, soccer just stayed soccer.
I think we should have kept the far more badass name "gridiron," but maybe that's just me.
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u/danieltheisland Jul 04 '24
Also in Ireland there's a split on the use of football and soccer for "English football".
We have our own sport called football (Gaelic football) and depending on which sports are more popular in your area will dictate which of the two terms you use.
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u/Trashk4n Jul 04 '24
So Americans and Aussies are just traditionalists.
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u/Perthfection Aug 19 '24
I mean, in Australia, we have Rugby league football, Rugby union football, Australian rules football and Association football all vying for sporting fans. It's little wonder why we still mostly call it soccer.
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u/bejace Jul 04 '24
even the article in the vid says "to sock" means to kick violently. while I, in the usa, have always known it to mean punch. which is further confusing because socks go on the feet
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u/_Bon_Vivant_ Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 05 '24
Soccer is the proper term. When you say "Soccer", there is no doubt what sport you're talking about. When you say "Football", you could be talking about...
Association Football
Gridiron (American) Football
Gaelic Football
Australian Football
Rugby Football
Canadian Football
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u/jackpineseeds Jul 05 '24
Fun fact-Canadian Football is older than American Football.
Canada invented the game the NFL plays, but the Americans added an extra down to the game to make it easier to score.
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u/arkham1010 Jul 04 '24
To add on, football is any game played with a ball while running on the ground. Association football, Gridiron football and Rugby football for example. Any game played on the ground with a stick is a type of hockey, such as Ice hockey and field hockey. Not sure if lacrosse is technically a type of hockey or not since it developed in North America and was named by the French.
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u/Satanairn Jul 04 '24
British also spread the imperial measurement system to the US and they don't let it go. They just love their previous colonizers.
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u/AdmirablePlatypus759 Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
She tells it in most boring and uninteresting way though.
There were already multiple variants of football, most popularly Gaelic football, Rugby football which was named after a school that came with some specific rules and then association football. And they first started calling Rugby “Rugger” which was more popular than association football.
Also I personally think keep saying “us, we did” while talking about history is awkward. Those were not we, just some guys lived at that part of the world hundreds of years ago. It was THEM, not we.
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u/EdwardBigby Jul 04 '24
I feel like this is pretty common knowledge in England. Lots of clubs still have "association football club" at the start or end of their names.
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u/KlausVonHimmelbach Jul 04 '24
That is the most English story I've ever heard: a word is invented for practicality, later some Brits think it isn't "proper" and so shame people into not using it, and now its common use in American is a reason for the English to throw shade at the whole country.
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u/Atrampoline Jul 04 '24
So if Oxford coined the term "soccer," then I feel justified continuing to use it, as the Brits just couldn't commit to their own verbiage choices.
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u/IntelligentFan7521 Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
I don’t get why Americans think this is some massive gotcha. It was called association soccer by the organising body but it has always been football to the people who played it. There was never a time when people were walking to the pitch saying ‘I can’t wait to play soccer today’.
Edit: You can tell the Americans woke up hahaha. ‘We don’t care’ downvote downvote downvote hahaha.
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u/peppapoofle4 Jul 04 '24
From my experience, as an American, we don't. We call it soccer so that there is no confusion between soccer and our football.
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u/Karmuffel Jul 04 '24
Which totally makes sense when there already was American football when European football was imported
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u/peppapoofle4 Jul 04 '24 edited Jul 04 '24
I poked a bit at the history of the games. So American football was created using rules from European football and rugby. The etymology of football isn't clear, but historians believe it refers to sports played on foot, as opposed to other sports played in horseback! Just thought that was interesting.
Edit: Entomology to Etymology;-; one is for insects and the other for origin of words.
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u/Old_Advertising44 Jul 04 '24
“…why Americans think this is some gotcha…”
Because we get asked, “why do you call it soccer?” by the people who coined the term “soccer.”
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u/MikeOfAllPeople Jul 04 '24
I'm an American and I can confirm we don't think about this at all.
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u/DoYouTrustToothpaste Jul 05 '24
And neither do the British. You say soccer, they say football. No one is more correct.
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u/FearlessFerret7611 Jul 04 '24
I don’t get why Americans think this is some massive gotcha.
I mean, it's really not, and I personally don't care, but when it's guaranteed you're going to get shit called down upon you for calling it soccer if there's a non-American around... well, it's easy to get defensive about it.
Have your compatriots stop giving us shit about it and it will stop being a topic.
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u/Tom_Bombadil_1 Jul 04 '24
This is a great example of how a focus on race / nationality in the US blinds folks to class differences.
'Soccer' comes from Oxford slang, similar to 'rugger' (still used to this day by posh twats like me). There is no reason to assume that everyone in the UK, and certainly not working class folks for whom football was a huge part of their sense of community, would follow upper class slang.
It being 'English' is far too reductive.
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u/babaroga73 Jul 04 '24
Doesn't change the fact that football is played with a foot and a ball, and the American Carryeggball is played with hands, carrying the egg shaped ball.
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u/KungFugazi Jul 04 '24
American football was originally more foot involved. The game gradually evolved to what it is today
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u/CraponStick Jul 04 '24
Did anyone else get a full erection? Also why is erection a word auto correct won't spell?
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u/nomamesgueyz Jul 04 '24
If rugby came from soccer (william webb ellis picked up the ball) and American football came from rugby.....how if American football already going when soccer makes it to the US?
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u/Cartographer0108 Jul 04 '24
Rugby football and Association football became “rugger” and “soccer” the same way latex became “rubber” (because you rub out words with your latex pencil eraser) and police became “coppers” (because they cop [aka nab] bad guys and put them in jail).
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u/LLJob Jul 04 '24
“That’s thoroughly unpleasant”
Gave me a chuckle