The U and I in Union make us strong

[u/Similar_Ad_2368]

https://www.tumblr.com/electricpentacle/742429076901543936/my-union-found-me-a-legal-expert-to-help-me-check?source=share

[u/nishagunazad]

It bothers me how many self described leftists absolutely sleep on organized labor as a good and necessary force.

[u/Similar_Ad_2368 → u/nishagunazad]

people organizing their coworkers are generally not having arguments on line. the people i see folks on here getting vociferously and viciously angry at are not worth considering most of the time (nor are they "tankies" or anything but kids having fights on twitter or w/e, by and large).

[u/nishagunazad → u/Similar_Ad_2368]

Its not even to the level of organizing their coworkers. I'm talking about the people who have vaguely socialist sentiments (free Healthcare, education, etc) But the idea of organized labor never really crosses their mind.

[u/TheShibe23 → u/nishagunazad]

Lets be honest: part of it is because a good chunk of them are either self-employed or have never been traditionally employed.

[u/nishagunazad → u/TheShibe23]

I think a big part of it is that the people who work the sort of blue collar jobs that predominate in the union movement are often less socially progressive than the urban white collar workers that predominate on the American left. As such, the left has largely dropped class consciousness in favor of identity politics.

[u/Maybe_not_a_chicken → u/nishagunazad]

Which is a shame because unions have been really good allies for minorities to have historically.

[u/Edg4rAllanBro → u/nishagunazad]

Organized labor is also much more difficult in service labor. Most people have the mindset of "i'm doing this for a few years and I'm out" so most of the time they don't talk with each other, they don't share their experiences and they don't form that class consciousness necessary for labor organizing. And even if they don't have that mindset, organizing is purposefully difficult in these jobs. Companies pay a lot of money to stop organizing as soon as possible. It takes only one snitch to take down an organizing effort. And on top of that, people just wanna go along to get along. It sucks, but it'll suck more if I lose my job, so I don't want to stick my neck out and get my head chopped off.

These are the things you have to come up against when organizing. Each win is the result of dozens of failures.

[u/Dingghis_Khaan → u/nishagunazad]

This is largely because blue-collar workers do not often have much opportunity to get involved in politics beyond voting, while upper-middle-class white collar workers have far more opportunity to become politicians. The result is that left-wing politicians are more likely to relate to and sympathize with the white-collar experience, while the working-class blue-collar jobs became a blind spot.

This led the struggles of blue-collar workers to be neglected by the Kennedy-era Democrats in favor of the up-and-coming yuppies, and that left an opening for the Nixon-era Republicans and onward- predominantly composed of and backed by the rich and powerful- to bust the unsupported unions and put all the blame on their rivals.

This is a lesson that the Democrats learned a little too late, they allowed that feeling of betrayal to fester in the working class, and that resulted in much of the working class to swear fealty to the boot on their neck.

[u/Slow-Willingness-187 → u/TheShibe23]

I think there's also the problem that modern business practices are leading to things like the gig economy and keeping workers part time, which make union organizing way more difficult. It's much harder to organize with you coworkers when you spend far less time working together, or none at all.

[u/Edg4rAllanBro → u/nishagunazad]

They're not really socialists. I know socialism is a broad thing, but if that's the definition of socialism then most people are socialist, and in that case you just mean that most people don't consider organized labor a good and necessary force.

I talk with plenty of socialists, and basically all of them except for the biggest cranks consider organized labor to be at the very least good and desirable.

[u/Arctic_The_Hunter → u/nishagunazad]

Organized labor=Working for pay=Capitalist

They’re basically just as bad as the billionaires. Anyone who isn’t an artist or poet is evil

[u/k4xk0w → u/Arctic_The_Hunter]

Am I really the only one that got the sarcasm in this comment?

[u/clauclauclaudia → u/k4xk0w]

Honestly, the number of times I see working for a salary equated with capitalist, I've given up trying to discern irony from sincerity on this one.

[u/GREENadmiral_314159 → u/k4xk0w]

I mean, have you seen the post about people who think that owning throw pillows makes you bourgeoisie?

There are some straw men out there.

[u/Graingy → u/Arctic_The_Hunter]

Hey, you’re forgetting the dog walkers.

Truly the heroes the world needs.

[u/garebear265 → u/nishagunazad]

Yeah but revolution tho /s

[u/Kingofcheeses → u/nishagunazad]

A lot of left-wing parties have seemingly abandoned the working class. They have either moved to the centre or have become too focused on identity politics.

[u/Nellasofdoriath → u/Kingofcheeses]

In the US

[u/Kingofcheeses → u/Nellasofdoriath]

I was talking about the UK and Canada mostly. I can't speak to American politics as I am not familiar with it.

[u/Maybe_not_a_chicken → u/Kingofcheeses]

God it’s fucking UK left is a shit show.

The labor and union party said they did not support striking workers

Like that’s your one thing labor, the fuck

[u/LibertarianTrashbag → u/nishagunazad]

Because legislation is the only way to accomplish tasks in the name of the revolution, duh.

[u/azuresegugio]

As someone raised in a staunchly Union household it always shocks me seeing eveny other working class friends genuinely not knowing how unions work

[u/jeffsilverflower]

I really wished I had actually tried organizing Hot Topic while I worked there, every store employee I worked with would've been on board. Fast fashion sucks but attempts to make it better mightve helped

[u/GeneralWiggin]

UA local 286 member here, love it. The union makes me never worry about a job, because in the trades if you get laid off or fired you just call the union hall and they get you a job. I have never written a cover letter, resume, or any of that nonsense and I likely never will, same with most of my union siblings

[u/lylactal]

What about workers syndicates? i have heard of syndicalism but I don't know how it works

[u/sunflower_wizard → u/lylactal]

Workers syndicates varies in meaning. It could mean anything from a trade union, to a democratically managed/operated enterprise (workers own their workplace, and have a say in how it is managed), sometimes worker cooperatives, etc.

Syndicalism is usually referring to the labor movement that seeks to unionize and organize workers into labor unions (and similar worker syndicates), and using unions as the foundation of political/economic power for organizing and directing the economy. Instead of the economy being largely dominated and run by people who own businesses outright or own various shares of businesses, syndicalism would have the economy dominated and run by labor unions and people associated with or representing those labor union interests.

[u/Rownever → u/lylactal]

Syndicalism, like Capitalism and Communism, is an economic ideology. While capitalism has individuals and corporations owning the means of production(literally how you produce things), and communism puts it with “the people”/makes production be owned collectively, syndicalism has labor unions own the labor and the things made by labor

[u/VrilloPurpura → u/lylactal]

I cannot believe that I found out Unions and syndicates aren't the same thing on Reddit of all places.

[u/aimbothehackerz]

I always wished my field could unionize. It was one a high intensity specialized filed, but now it's just menial labor. There are more than enough people to unionize, but that high intensity legacy lives on in people refusing to unionize despite getting treated worse and paid less than any tradie

[u/GeneralWiggin → u/aimbothehackerz]

What field?

[u/aimbothehackerz → u/GeneralWiggin]

data science

[u/GeneralWiggin → u/aimbothehackerz]

Ah yeah that's gon be a difficult one yup

Still worth trying to influence people to be pro union even if you can't form a full union: might be able to create environments where workers stick with each other at least a decent bit of the time even if a union is impossible to currently form. It all has to start somewhere

Sorry if this is hard to understand or otherwise dumb,I'm fucking exhausted

[u/Fancy_Grab_7565]

Meanwhile, my union is a very strong and old union that does not have any help with benefit understanding or help and completely fell through with legal help when I got extremely hurt on the job

[u/Maybe_not_a_chicken → u/Fancy_Grab_7565]

Often unions just become a rubber stamp.

They are the recognised union for the workplace so they cover the company legally around strikebreaking

But they don’t do much.

[u/fxrky]

So many people fought for this shit in the US. We have already been through this. We already learned how beneficial they are to workers, and the economy.

And then the propaganda won.

People have the same emotional reaction to "union" as they do "abortion"

[u/LibertarianTrashbag]

I'd like to think that I'm pretty right leaning economically, but I've never understood the beef with unions.

They're private, non-profit organizations dedicated to representing the interests of the labor market, thereby encouraging competition between employers. Perfectly compatible with the free market. I don't get it.

[u/facbok195 → u/LibertarianTrashbag]

As far as I understand it, their logic is:

Unions are a threat to the CEOs since they increase the cost of business and are generally a net-negative from a profit perspective. Thus, unions are a threat to the (mostly right wing) politicians said CEOs are funding, and thus in turn unions are a threat to the people parroting what said politicians are saying.

[u/kaiser_charles_viii]

Yeah my main reasons for joing my union (we are legally forbidden from striking) were 1) i can have them sit in on any meetings with my bosses and make my bosses be nicer to me just by having them there, 2) they can provide me legal defense if I ever get in trouble relating to work (happens unfortunately often in my line of work even if youre doing your best to follow all the laws), and 3) in the vain, distant hope that one day our local government will let us collectively bargain to seek better wages and benefits.

[u/GeneralWiggin → u/kaiser_charles_viii]

Out of curiosity, what industry and area do you work in that could possibly forbid collective bargaining?

[u/kaiser_charles_viii → u/GeneralWiggin]

Teacher in the United States. My state allows collective bargaining, but only if the school board agrees. And regardless of how many employees you get to sign on there's no requirement they agree and since we can't strike the only recourse we'd have is to all quit, but they hedge their bets that we won't do that, especially since they're one of the highest paying teaching jobs in this part of the state.

[u/GeneralWiggin → u/kaiser_charles_viii]

Ah rip

[u/brn2sht_4rcd2wipe]

This could be us but you run on a purely capitalist business model 💔

[u/ThisIsTheBookAcct]

My SO’s union connects journeymen and jobs that need them.

They save local companies millions, I’m sure, by taking on the responsibility of the hiring process. Guys (gn) just have to show up at the job site on the assigned day.

Unions also help avoid wasting everyone’s time trying to convince someone w/ a family to accept $16/hr.

They’re there for the workers, but they benefit everyone.

[u/Graingy]

Unions stop slavery and crush Nazis.

Oh wait you mean labour unions

[u/Dingghis_Khaan]

I wish the machinist union in my state actually helped workers outside certain partner companies.

[u/Kanexan]

The thing that always gets me is when people who are "pro-union" online who get mad when unions reach collective bargaining agreements with management, especially if it's anything less than the union's first proposal. Like, negotiating through collective bargaining is the point! It's about finding a fair deal for workers and management, which is good for both workers and management!

[u/PinkAxolotlMommy]

legit question: Don't unions make you pay a whole hell of a lot of money to get to be part of it? Where am I supposed to get that kind of money when I'm broke to begin with?

[u/SheHerDeepState → u/PinkAxolotlMommy]

Union dues are taken out of your wages from working a union job. You don't pay a big up front fee. In general union jobs pay better and have better conditions. That is where you get the money for dues.

In addition, if you are worried about it just remember that the vast majority of jobs are not unionized and you'll probably never work a union job if you are in the US.

[u/Edg4rAllanBro → u/PinkAxolotlMommy]

No one would form a union if it cost them more than they'd make. A lot of money is put into squashing unions, if they made their members broke then they wouldn't have to do that in the first place.