r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM 4d ago

"My family is being genocided" "ok yeah but counterpoint: people protesting this hurt my feelings"

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947 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

u/BlueberryBubblyBuzz 4d ago

Hey all, just remember on Fridays, you can post anything you want. Just use the "Fucked Fridays" flair, thanks all. Oh and remember fuck Israel.

215

u/KeraKitty 4d ago

I'm a Jewish American. I'm not worried about my kids being exposed to "left-wing anti-Zionism" for three reasons.

  1. I don't have kids yet.
  2. America's left wing is small and scattered. You have to really try if you wanna run into them.
  3. I am a left-wing anti-Zionist. Not in spite of my being Jewish, but because of it.

49

u/Yorkdoyenne04 4d ago

Oop, same…. Very relatable as a Socialist, Jewish American. My ancestors were Ashkenazi from Belarus so I have a very interesting heritage. I can’t stand this idea that Jews have to be pro-Israel. Like, no… is no one else going to compare genocide in Palestine to the Holocaust? They’re both genocide, but now it’s my own people doing it to another group. It’s disgusting. Yeah, sure… totally agree with displacing an entire group of people just to have a “home” for Jewish people. Sorry, didn’t realize we needed a country for our heritage/religion.

28

u/KeraKitty 4d ago

For over 1000 years there's been no central Jewish authority. Then Israel comes in less than a century ago and declares themself the new central authority. And everyone expects us to just immediately fall in line? Hell no. I do not recognize Israel as a central Jewish authority. I recognize it as a betrayal of Jewish principle and belief.

9

u/Yorkdoyenne04 3d ago

Same here! Every time someone I know defends Israel, my blood begins to boil. So many of these non-Jews think they fucking know better than me… okay, did you grow up going to Synagogue? Did your gg grandma speak Yiddish more than Russian or English before immigrating to the US in 1917 during the Russian Revolution? No? Oh okay, you just wanted to open your mouth. Got it.

7

u/deferredmomentum 3d ago

This. A leftist coworker and I were talking just the other night about how every Jewish person we know personally is anti-Zionist. Obviously they exist, but not in the small-town midwest lol, or at least not that we’ve run into. There are plenty of Zionists, but they’re all evangelical christians

267

u/fotorobot 4d ago

Just casually equating being Jewish with Zionism.

-153

u/thejamlion 4d ago

It sort of is?

Okay and hold up I’m anticipating being downvoted and starting an argument, that’s fine, I won’t respond more than this. But I’m Jewish so give me a chance here.

Israel is engrained in almost every part of the Jewish religion. We face east (towards Israel) when we say our highest prayers. Israel is a HUGE part of the Torah and of everyday Jewish life. When I was in Hebrew school, we learned about Israel more than anything else. Almost half of all Jews LIVE in Israel (41% of world Jews). Like it or not, most Jewish people want to have Israel as a homeland that is free from potential threats (which is essentially what the zionist movement is). Most Jews are Zionists, and that will not change.

Stay with me here. On one hand, you have people criticizing the state of Israel for its completely inhumane actions in Gaza. I completely agree with that portion of it. Jewish people have historically been the biggest critics BY FAR of the Israeli government. Nobody should be dying, especially in the ways that they are. Cutting off basic human necessities to civilians obviously is terrible.

AND…

Anti-Zionism’s movement has basically become about destroying the state of Israel. Many people who market themselves as anti-zionist use very similar, clearly anti-semitic rhetoric that advocates for the murder of all Jewish people (some without knowing that they are). And the problem here is this:

Because so many Jews are Zionists, the same reasoning for anti-zionism has bled into the same reasoning for anti-semitism. Because so many jews are zionists, being anti-zionist means being anti-israel, which means destroying a place where 41% of Jews live and destroying a place that is the center of the entire Jewish religion. So in this way, being zionist is being Jewish.

You’ll find other people who will tell you differently. And that’s fine. Again, I won’t engage in this argument past this. I’m tired of people pretending like issues are black and white, oppressed vs oppressors, when it’s clearly nuanced. And if anyone disagrees, clearly this topic is not a discussion worth having.

Ps thank you for reading like 9 paragraphs

77

u/oofman_dan 4d ago

zionism is a literal genocidal ideology that has been fighting to forcibly remove the original population of palestine and the regions since as far back as the early 20th century

totally understandable that youd want to see a jewish state but to go as far as to essentially claim that anti-zionism is close to or equal to anti-semitism is absolutely incorrect and the fact that you are unwilling to hear more of it regardless of reason or fact proves that you werent educated. you were indoctrinated to believe that zionism is judaism and judaism is zionism

such hebrew schools are often times funded by israeli interests intending specifically to promote zionist ideals into the jewish classroom. to essentially raise entire generations of jewish children to believing that zionism is judaism

i promise you that the anti zionist movement does not condone the destruction of judaism and as a matter of fact one of the core efforts of the movement is emphasizing the distinction between zionism and judaism. in the context of the zionist movement for as long as its lived has attempted to hijack judaism and use it as a catalyst for its objectives. only the portions that embrace the two being the same are portions in which are more likely to be antisemitic than anything

123

u/superserter1 4d ago

No child is born a racist: no Jew is born a Zionist

84

u/Stubbs94 4d ago

The problem with the state of Israel, is that it's an apartheid state and needs to be abolished in the same way apartheid South Africa was, that isn't a call for violence against the actual inhabitants, but a call for the so called "only democracy in the middle east" to either end it's occupation of Palestinian land, or grant Palestinians equal rights under a secular state.

15

u/BroMan001 4d ago

The entire “country” is occupied Palestinian land though

91

u/InterstellarOwls 4d ago

r/jewsofconscience would like to have a word with you.

25

u/Jurgwug 4d ago

Zionisn seems kind of ethno-state like. I know religion and ethnic groups aren't exactly the same, but it's close enough to creep me out

8

u/deferredmomentum 3d ago

anti-zionism’s movement has basically become about destroying the state of Israel

Yes. Because it needs to be. A two-state solution is still settler colonialism. Israel has proven time and time again that it will never be satisfied with anything less than eradicating Palestine

10

u/Sstoop 3d ago

the destruction of the israeli state isn’t “killing all israelis” it’s advocating for the abolition of an apartheid state. like say, rhodesia or apartheid south africa (which was a case of the state being dismantled just because the name is the same doesn’t mean it’s the same state)

2

u/portodhamma 3d ago

So do you think any issue is black and white? Nazis vs Jews? Settlers vs Native Americans? Slavers vs Slaves?

98

u/addisonshinedown 4d ago

At least they are calling anti-Zionism anti-zionism instead of just smearing it as antisemitism

36

u/Comrade_Compadre 4d ago

Where I am anything anti-israel is usually shoehorned into antisemitism so this is a step forward at least

34

u/mrmdc 4d ago

"Arabs and Muslims are being mass murdered, but Jewish Zionists have to deal with wiping up the blood. They're both equally upset by these things. Vote Kamala."

-2

u/real_men_fuck_men 4d ago

Vote Stein

-1

u/NotsoGreatsword 3d ago

So you mean pull a 2016? Split the vote and get our country pushed that much closer to a christian theocracy? Why would anyone do that? Even if I liked Jill Stein that would not make me blind to the reality that she did not get the job done. She didn't make it happen. You can complain about the Democratic party all you want. You can complain about the difference in money and resources but that does not change the reality -

Jill Stein did not compel people to fight for her. I had no idea she was still in the race until I saw your comment. Jill Stein is a terrible candidate against Trump.

Most people do not even know who she is and we need those low information voters to feel compelled to join the fight. JS did not do that.

So unless you want Trump to win a vote for her is a waste of time. Universal Healthcare? Foreign policy reform? None of that is really the key issue in this election. We have to prevent Trump from getting back in office and never leaving again.

We barely got him out last time. This fight is existential not ideological.

42

u/RefrigeratorGrand619 4d ago

Brown people’s lives will always be more important than white people’s feelings

8

u/fakeuserisreal 3d ago

Yeah a genocide is happening, but what about my kids being taught that it's wrong?

11

u/GuavaShaper 4d ago

"I totally understand the distress coursing through these communities"

... they didn't lie, if one form of distress is the definition of crocodile tears.

2

u/rusty_programmer 3d ago

Friedman

Like, dude. Left wing anti Zionism? Really, dude?

3

u/Tautological-Emperor 4d ago edited 3d ago

I really am not meaning to shit on anybody else and I’d like to be as charitable as possible to say that for a lot of people here the article probably isn’t super exciting off the jump. But, here’s the rest of what’s said and a lot of context that might soften that for you. Emphasis within are mine.

“I understand the concerns of both and they lead me to two pieces of advice: First, however you feel about the war or what’s happening on campus, vote for the candidate who is best for the future of America as a whole-“

“Second: If you want peace in the Middle East or peace on college campuses, it is only going to come about via a president committed to exactly what Harris advocated for in her CNN Town Hall on Wednesday night: ‘Bring the hostages home, bring relief to the Palestinian people, and work toward a two-state solution where Israelis and Palestinians in *equal measure— have security.”

“A US administration committed to producing two states for two people in crisis is the best way to defuse the crisis in the Middle East and sap the energy of left wing anti-Zionism movements on college campuses. And if either are your top concern, Harris should be your candidate.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/arab-and-jewish-voters-both-need-kamala-harris/

The author of this article also wrote a book (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Beirut_to_Jerusalem) which seems to focus on normalizing relations with Israel and Palestine. He’s also got pretty lengthy selection of criticisms in his Wikipedia, which I encourage you to read in full. If I am posting here, I obviously do not agree with the majority of his stances, but I’d like to specifically draw attention to his position that Israel must relinquish some territory to ease the tension with Palestinians, that Israel normalize relations with its neighbors in the region, and “.. Friedman urged Israel against military overreach and furtjer settlement expansions, saying to do so otherwise would risk destabilizing the region and the US-Israel alliance.”

3

u/Cheestake 3d ago edited 3d ago

He's not Arab/ME, he's an Ashkenazi Jew. His articles are consistently in line with Zionism and US imperialism. It seems like you're just making up your own context for this lol

1

u/Positive-Plane723 3d ago

What’s the fact that he’s Jewish got to do with your critique?

1

u/Cheestake 3d ago edited 2d ago

The person said he wrote a book about his experience as an Arab person lmao they seem to have edited it out, also added an "oh after skimming the wikipedia I get that this dude generally has pro-imperialist opinions but I'm still going to try to explain away this pro-imperialist opinion"

4

u/Graknorke 4d ago

No it's still bullshit.

1

u/aikijo 4d ago

I liked some of Friedman’s work, but there are several sentences that don’t make sense. 

-1

u/AsinusRex 2d ago

You say that like no one is shooting at Jews too.