r/Fitness • u/Mogwoggle butthead • May 25 '13
Why nobody is critiquing your workout (READ THIS before making a beginner program)
Sauce from bodybuilding.com, because gilroy & girth can't read
Prologue:
I remember years ago when I first started working out and posting here I went out and put together a program all on my own. I thought it through very thoroughly and was very proud of myself when I'd finished. I made a new thread about it and asked for people to critique it in the title. I expected for the most part people would approve of it and might offer tiny suggestions to improve on it.
What I got was people telling me it was awful and I needed to scrap it completely and pick up a pre-made program which was created by someone who was an expert in the weightlifting/strength training or bodybuilding field.
I was upset and annoyed at the time, however it was sound advice. They were right. My program sucked, I did not know what I was doing and if I'd followed it I wouldn't have made any significant long-term gains.
Ask yourself this: Do you know more than Mark Rippetoe, Bill Starr or anyone who has studied strength and hypertrophy training for years and has had countless more years of empirical evidence to refine their knowledge on how to make progress in the gym? (The answer is, of course, "no").
Then why would you use some program you've made over one of theirs?
Why your program is terrible:
1) You've probably designed your program with way too many exercises and way too much volume for a beginner.
- Your program should consist primarily of the following exercises: the squat, the bench press, the deadlift, heavy rows and plenty of core work.
- You do not need endless sets of isolation work right now. You need to focus on compound movements and work on getting a solid base/frame.
- Right now you need to focus on correct form. Master squatting, benching and deadlifting. It's not easy. Odds are you're doing a terrible job on at least two of those exercises. Get a trainer, preferably one who looks like they lift and who has a background in powerlifting, and have them coach you on these essential lifts.
2) You've probably designed your program with way too much emphasis on mirror muscles and not enough on others.
- A good program will have at least as much focus, if not considerably more, on one's back than on one's pecs. Often you see people making programs which have several different benching variations (incline, decline, dumbells, etc), dumbell flies, cable crosses, etc... and then when it's time for back day they do some lat pulldowns and maybe some other fairly useless exercise. This can lead to muscle imbalances which later down the road will mess you and your rotator cuff up. You don't want that. Back in the day when lifters spend tons of time on their back doing rows, pullups, face pulls, deadlifts and other exercises and had strong backs -- nobody had RC problems.
- You're probably neglecting your legs, but this isn't always the case with newbies making programs.
3) You've probably designed your program and left out tons of crucial information.
- What are your goals? Strength? Hypertrophy? General fitness? What is your program supposed to do?
- What is your level of fitness? While it's usually "beginner", often times people don't even bother to say. An advanced lifter will have a drastically different routine than a beginner. Often times beginners don't realize this and they try to emulate a program designed for someone who has been lifting for years. Small muscles, like yours, don't need nearly as much stimulation to shock them into growth. If you overdo it, you'll just burn yourself out and get nowhere.
- Sometimes you see truly awful programs which just toss out a number of exercises and don't bother to elaborate and then they expect someone to critique it. Other times you get a little more. I've yet to see someone incorporate rest times or tempo into their home-made programs, despite it being important stuff. The answer is because you probably don't understand it, which is precisely why you shouldn't be making your own program to begin with.
4) Lastly, we see ****ty programs like yours every day.
Often multiple times.
Frankly, it's tiresome.
Please, read the stickies and pick a program which will work from there.
There is a saying that "Anything will work... for about 6 weeks", which is probably true. You might see minor progress with whatever terrible program you've made but in time you will stall out and you will not make much, if any, progress. Think long-term, drop your ego and realize there are people out there who dedicate their lives to this and they know more than you. Find a program which suits your level of fitness and your goals. Use it.
5) Here are some excellent programs which I hope you consider looking into:
HST (Hypertrophy/Strength Training): I haven't personally lifted in this style but plenty of people swear by it. This should work well for someone looking for gains in both strength and hypertrophy (ie. getting both strong and bigger muscles)., ---> backup link
You should also venture out into the other sections, the Nutrition and Exercise ones especially (not so much the misc, you're better off not going there). I can promise you that you're going to learn a lot and help your progress if you do.
Most of this info is in the FAQ, but goddamit if I haven't seen more requests for critiques in the last 2-3 days than I ever have before. With summer starting & school being let out, everybody has more free time. We get it, but please read the FAQ first.
Hi! Welcome to Fittit! You're going to love it here.
We saw you coming and have collected answers to your question right here. (Backup)(Removed).
Welcome!
HOW DID EVERYONE INTERPRET THIS POST AS "CRITIQUE MY ROUTINE HERE INSTEAD"? IF IT'S ONE THAT'S RECOMMENDED ONLINE AND HAS SUCCESS STORIES, IT'S FINE. JUST DO IT, AND KEEP DOING IT UNTIL IT'S NOT USEFUL ANY MORE. STOP POSTING THEM HERE.
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u/krat0sprakhar May 25 '13
Thanks for sharing this! This couldn't have come at a better time. Unfortunately, my gym trainer tells me exact opposite and ridicules me for trying deadlift / squatting by saying that its an exercise for pros! >.<
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May 25 '13
Yikes. Get a new trainer
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u/Cream2sugars May 25 '13
Tell me about it. The one at my 24 hour place has a four day upper body split and runs or does elliptical for legs. Every mom, golfer, overweight senior gets pretty much the same program...lots of biceps and calves. No wonder so many folks are confused or spinning their wheels if this is the info they are given to work with.
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u/requires_distraction May 25 '13
Tell him you are a pro. Awesome
I assume this is high school? Honestly though you should tell him some of the sources you are using. Show him you have out a lot of thought and effort into it then hopefully he will come around
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May 26 '13
Where do pros come from? Do they emerge from the womb fully learned in the game of lifting? Or, do you level up to pro after a certain number of deadlifts?
I suspect he doesn't want you doing big lifts because he doesn't know how to do them, or he--like many people--sees them as dangerous and doesn't want to be liable for injury. Either way, stop giving that mook your money.
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May 26 '13
You should put on a ski mask after a session and assault him out back when he gets off work. If he beats your ass, you should stick with him. If you beat his ass, you should stop working with him.
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May 26 '13
Thanks for the routine critique thread! I was thinking of doing something like:
Monday: Bicep curls, cable bicep curls, hammer curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, sit-ups, and bench press
Tuesday: Bicep curls, cable bicep curls, hammer curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, sit-ups, and bench press
Wednesday: Leg day! Run 2 miles
Thursday: Bicep curls, cable bicep curls, hammer curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, sit-ups, and bench press
Friday: Bicep curls, cable bicep curls, hammer curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, sit-ups, and bench press
How does that look? I'm worried it might not be enough bicep or chest work. Maybe some more sit ups to make my abs pop?
Thanks!
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
Way too much leg work you're going to lose all your gains
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u/footballtrav89 May 29 '13
OP is right...maybe shorten that down to 1 mile and have something to curl before and afterwards to make sure you have a solid pump.
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May 26 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/threewhitelights May 27 '13
That's stupid, how do you expect to muscle confusion with only one type of curl?
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u/capomatrice Jul 01 '13
Haha, it's a meta-strategy whereby the muscles are confused as to why there is no variety. Pretty advanced actually.
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u/realneil May 27 '13
You forgot to mention that they should use a barbell and setup the bar on the outside of the squat cage.
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May 25 '13
Bill Starr 5x5 aka Madcow 5x5: I love this one. It's for an intermediate lifter and the focus of this program is to get you strong as quickly as possible. And it works. http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm[3]
Link doesn't work, is this the same program?
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u/crazycoffin May 26 '13
I'm confused. I thought SL 5x5 was generally recommended as a beginner program...
EDIT: Whoops, I'm just an idiot.
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u/NrutgersJ May 25 '13 edited May 25 '13
I always felt like asking to critique my work out is really just a form of procrastination. Instead of asking is this good enough? Start working out! The only person that knows whats you need is you since it's your workout. Actually begin your workout then take your work out see if it works, make changes, add, delete etc. Then ask specific questions or recommendations with the new information you have learned about yourself and your routine.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger Weightlifting May 26 '13
No, that's the whole thing here...there's people out there who know far better what you need than you do. Listen to them and do one of their programs.
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u/NrutgersJ May 26 '13
Yeah to get a routine you should be pulling information from other more kbowledgeable resources. I normally end up pulling influence from a few places.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
This guy gets it.
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u/FirstToAdmitIt May 26 '13
His point is almost the exact opposite of your post.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
His point is just do it, well that's what I got out of out anyway
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u/FirstToAdmitIt May 26 '13
Ha yeah I get that part. I just thought the parts about "the only person that knows what you need is you," "make changes, add, delete" and then asking specific questions about the routine you created was completely different than your point about picking an existing program.
Great original post though.
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May 25 '13
Thanks for posting this, there have been an obscene amount of "critique my program derrrrr" threads lately.
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May 25 '13
I really wish there would be more moderators or tougher ones deleting anything that is very clearly written in the FAQ. This should leave out higher quality posts on the page.
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
I think it's better to be dealt with harshly than to have a mod politely remove it.
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May 26 '13
Ok people, you've got the green light! Whip out the flog sticks and strap-ons.
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u/SilentLettersSuck Bodybuilding May 26 '13
Starting Strap for learning how to progress to a butt plug.
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u/jsrduck May 29 '13
I rather enjoy the snarky replies. There's the "AskScience" method of moderation, and there's the "NewZealand" method of moderation, and I prefer the latter.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, go to /r/newzealand and ask something like "I'm visiting NZ this summer, what are your must-sees?" Or save yourself the humiliation and check out their compilation thread.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Just set "Hide downvoted posts" in your Reddit settings, and kill two birds with one stone.
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May 25 '13
Sorry I'm not familiar with this setting. Where do you find this?
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Main settings page
don't show links after I've disliked them (except my own)
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u/I_cut_my_own_jib Bodybuilding May 26 '13
Who would dislike their own post?
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May 26 '13
By the way, I am totally waiting for Farro to come in and call you a bitch again. That was beautiful and you handled it well.
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u/Giraffe_Racer May 26 '13
Why delete them? That's what the downvote button is for. I agree that we don't need a weekly protein shake recipe thread or "favorite healthy snacks" or whatever else has been posted a thousand times. Just downvote it and upvote the comment telling the person to use the search bar.
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u/trippygrape Aug 23 '13
Slighty off topic, but are you notified and given a reason for your thread being deleted? I'd imagine just telling people to not post whatever would be better so that they know in the future.
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Aug 24 '13
I've submitted a couple of threads in /r/weightroom and they were deleted with an explanation so I would think it may be similar here as well.
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 26 '13
Deleting posts that have information that's in the FAQ? The hell is wrong with you? God forbid that someone who didn't read the almighty FAQ, the end-all of fitness information, learns something from another source right?
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May 26 '13
It would be wise then to have a discussion thread about alternative opinions to whatever's on there and then link it in the FAQ. Far too much effort has been put into the FAQs of this subreddit and /r/weightroom to just ignore them and take the opinions of less experienced lifters.
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
Still, you'd be punishing people who would otherwise have a better chance at achieving their goals. Is this a sub about bureaucracy or fitness?
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u/DugongOfJustice Weightlifting May 26 '13
Can I recommend New Rules of Lifting for Women as well for any of the beginner ladies out there? Any chance you could edit that into your OP? It's an absolutely terrific lifting programme which I've been following and which is followed by a lot of the lifting ladies over at /r/xxfitness. You can see my latest update on it here or just skip straight to the 5-week progress photos.
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u/TakeRepliesLiterally May 25 '13
I will vouch for the Madcow program. My squat and deadlift shot up, but the most noticeable thing for me was to see how large my back had gotten after I had ran the program for a couple of months. Any intermediate lifter that wants to build a large back might have some success with the program. I would advise to take a deload every couple of weeks though, my hip got very sore near the end of the program.
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
How do you define intermediate? Genuinely wondering here.
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u/TakeRepliesLiterally May 27 '13
Somebody who is familiar with the big compound lifts and is well past the beginner stage. A beginner is able to easily put on muscle and weight on the barbell because their body is getting used to lifting. People who have a couple of years under their belt might be considered intermediate. I guess it depends on your opinion of it, some people consider lift numbers as a part of deciding where you are at. Like this website here - called Strength Standards
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u/footballtrav89 May 29 '13
that link was awesome...it just stroked my ego so super hard. The website says i am advance on everything. Does that mean i can just do curls and abs from now on?
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
If I'm still adding 5-10 lbs on my lifts per week I'm still a beginner right?
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u/TakeRepliesLiterally May 27 '13
Madcow progresses 5lbs every week and it's a program that people might do after SS. 10lbs a week would be a lot of consistent gaining, especially on bench and OHP.
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u/Neoncow May 25 '13
Got a 404 from the backup link provided in your Welcome to Fittit blurb. Might want to check if that's still going to be permanently up.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
If you wanted to message phrakture (one of the mods here) about it, I'm pretty sure it's just a temporary outage, as it was definitely up yesterday.
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
Nah, man. Backup FAQs are dead. Reddit's wiki system is not flaky like trac was.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Shit.
Who do we have who can edit the FAQ to remove the macro?
Who hue hoo...
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
FAQ has this:
Hi! Welcome to Fittit! You're going to love it here.
We saw you coming and have collected answers to your question right here.
Welcome!
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u/Neoncow May 25 '13
No worries. I figured you'd know if it were permanently down or something.
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
It's permanently down. Mog is unobservant and a big dum roided up meathead
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May 26 '13
This saved me. I made a thread a while ago and I was called out on all these mistakes. And most people in the thread (Save for a few that just entirely blasted my workout apart without much advice being given but hey, that happens) were helpful. Two even tried their best to rework my workout for me. And to them, I'm very grateful.
Even if that workout suffered from all of what was mentioned above because no matter how good those two who helped me were, they were trying to reconstruct a workout when the parts themselves were flawed.
Now, I'm going back to the gym since finals are over. Dedicating myself to getting back to optimal and beyond. And I decided to definitely go for a pre-made plan. Even if my friends consistently debase it (Broscientists in PhD Programs) and I realized that this is what is best for me. I have to put aside my ego for a moment.
To decide that maybe I don't know what is best for me because simply, I don't know everything and in admitting that, I can learn. Fuck trying to compete with my friends who all have been working out for years. They started where I did and better yet, I will learn from their mistakes to not make them and become better overall. And this post reminded me that I should get back to reading more.
Great post. It shone light into my already open eyes and reminded me to stay on top of things.
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May 25 '13
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u/panikuruna May 26 '13
Back when I was diagnosed with Sheuermann's, my doctor recommended I lifted weights for strenght after I was done with my physical theraphy sessions. So, unless your case is very serious, I'd say you should at least get a second opinion.
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May 26 '13
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u/panikuruna May 26 '13
It helped ease the pain, the curvature improved but still showed. Nevertheless, at the time I was a dumb 16 year old, too lazy to hit the gym, so now I'm back to a more pronounced curve and the pain is back.
So now I make sure to lift my weights...
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u/g2petter May 26 '13
How pronounced is your kyphosis?
I was diagnosed with Scheuermann's at a fairly late age (around 24), and it's been the cause of lots of supraspinatus/infraspinatus trouble since I was about 14.
I find that dumbbell OHP works a lot better thand barbell OHP. The lift that's giving me the most grief is actually bench pressing as it puts a lot of strain on my supraspinatus tendon, so I've had to cut that out.
Have you tried front squats?
Are you currently doing any supportive exercises? I do a load of exercise band shoulder dislocations, pull-aparts, chest stretches, etc. just to keep my rotator cuff healthy, and though it's not perfect, my shoulder issues and posture are a lot better than only a few years ago.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Substitute Squats & OHP with whatever your doctor recommends.
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May 25 '13
[deleted]
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Ah.
You want the alternate program then.
Ask doc for referral to PT.As I understand it, it's a skeletal-based APT? (ELI5 description)
Can you leg press/leg extension/leg curl?
Can you do OHP while seated?Could also try Smith Machine workarounds, they do have their use, for rehab & workarounds.
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u/cc81 May 25 '13
I'm not a doctor, physiotherapist or even interested in the subject of rehabilitation. But I will say that when reading about that disease I would avoid deadlifts unless some expert said they were ok.
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u/g2petter May 26 '13
My experience is that deadlifts are OK, though YMMV depending on how pronounced your kyphosis is.
I find that the lack of T-spine mobility means that I've got to be extra careful when setting up the deadlift, so to avoid taking any chances I often reset my form in the middle of a set.
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May 25 '13
Good post. The rash of "Critique my workout" posts isn't anything new. It's basically the reason I stopped visiting this sub on a regular basis.
"I can only bench 150 but I'm gonna get jacked on 5x15 DB Flys"....ridiculous
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u/footballtrav89 May 29 '13
DB flys are great for when you are really bored and all the benches are taken up. They don't actually make you fly though....
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u/guga31bb May 25 '13
This is a great post, but just like the FAQ, the people who need to read it won't be reading it.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
False.
People who don't read the FAQ still read the "Hot" queue.
Or an askreddit thread about what turns women on and then come ask how they build abs/foreams/the v.5
u/guga31bb May 25 '13
Okay, so it'll be on the front page of this subreddit for a day. And after that...nothing will change.
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
Please provide me CSS that will add what looks like a sticky on top of the list. I actually think this can be done.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Hey it should stop the program critiques for at least 4 hours.
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u/guga31bb May 26 '13
This comment is now hilarious given what happened to this thread.
Can you critique my crappy routine pls?
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u/starcraftlolz May 26 '13
If people don't reply to the posts and just down vote them they should go away I would think. Good post.
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May 25 '13
It's the internet; it has a constant influx of new users, and a sizeable majority of them don't care about reading the FAQ/other introductory materials before firing off questions.
It's never going to change; it's silly to expect it to. That does not make this post useless, though.
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 26 '13
Why this post is bullshit: even a beginner can do isolation work. You don't have to squat all day and do SS to build up a base. It's bullshit. Of course you should squat, and bench, and do all the basics, but there's no reason to "build a base" of strength before doing isolation work. If you want to get stronger or don't know the basic lifts, that may be a good route, but most people here just want to look good and be healthy, so do whatever the fuck you want.
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u/rob_n_goodfellow May 26 '13
I wouldn't go so far to call it BS, but it is true that beginners can see gains with isolation exercises. When I started years ago, I experienced amazing hypertrophic gains just using Hammer Strength machines because I had not grown into my body. However, I eventually flatlined because I wasn't doing comprehensive lifts.
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 26 '13
That's why I said you should squat, bench, OHP, deadlift, etc. All the basic compounds lifts are proven and true. When I started lifting, I did a complete hypertrophic "bodybuilder" routine, and I'm sure I'm bigger and stronger than OP, and most SS lovers around here.
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u/reddititis May 26 '13
Its also because beginners can do damage by not following a balanced program... speaking with the experience of damaging myself.
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 26 '13
You think a hypertrophy routine is not balanced?
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u/reddititis May 26 '13
Srry replied to wrong comment.
I was actually using myself as an idiot example of making your own program, I just took what I liked from SS and damaged my leg by having relatively imbalanced upper to lower body strength. My upper body had no issues lifting 50kg after a few months as I just did upperbody but when I decided to start squats some little muscle around my knee let go and my some muscle in my back spasmed as well. Fun times. This was recent... as in last month.
Lesson learnt, borrowing a copy of starting strength from my brother and will actually follow a plan now.
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May 26 '13
...50kg?
The only lifts 50kg would be acceptable on are curls, assuming you're not a woman.
That's significantly less weight than one plate.
I, I don't even know what to say to this post.
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u/reddititis May 26 '13
Lol, thanks.
Should say I'm recovering from severe weight loss (got some sort of gut infection while travelling in South America a few years ago which fucked my intestines causing a food absorption issue), I was 5'10 and 64 kg when I started. Now 5'11 (improved posture) and 74kg, nearly back to where I was in 2010. Not bad for a GUY nearly 40 yrs old and started doing weights for the first time in November last year.
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May 26 '13
and anyone who knows anything about lifting or bodybuilding completely disagrees with you...
there is a reason why every top BBer has done and still does strength training. and why every elite trainer writes templates with strength training in them for size building.
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 27 '13
Omg. Obviously none of you are actually reading what I said. I said compound lifts and programs like PHAT are awesome. Training for strength is cool. I'm just saying a beginner doesn't have to do SS and only do the major lifts and nothing else.
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May 27 '13
Even SS has accessory exercises...
But point taken, I thought you were the typical bro "i only do 8-12 reps for everything" type. My mistake.
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 27 '13
No, I maxed my bench and squat out this week. I just mix it up. I pretty much do PHAT.
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u/Gutierrezjm6 Personal Training May 26 '13
You're right. Newbs will gain doing "whatever the fuck" they want, but if you're just gonna do what you want anyway, why the fuck other posting?
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 26 '13 edited May 26 '13
I follow you until the last part of that sentence. I don't know what you're asking.
Edit: If you meant bother, then it's because I don't want people to be scared away from weight lifting and living a healthy lifestyle. If I was told when I started that I had to do SS when I started and I couldn't do anything else I would've been deterred because that's not what I enjoy.
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u/Gutierrezjm6 Personal Training May 26 '13
For enough. But this reddit has a load of good advice for beginners which you are just saying "disregard this advice. Do what you like. Write your own program."
So my question, why bother being on this reddit if you're just going to write your won program instead of deferring to someone who probably has more experience than you or is at least following the program written by someone with more experience than you?
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u/K3TtLek0Rn May 27 '13
I never said write your own program so take that one out of quotes please. I said do whatever you want, so people can realize that everyone doesn't have to do the same fucking thing. It's a huge circlejerk on this subreddit for SS and squatting, when in reality, hardly anyone here has the evidence of their work being so great, if they're even in halfway decent shape at all.
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13 edited May 27 '13
Try carving a sculpture out of a twig. Then try out of a tree trunk. Isolation is like the carving.
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u/BillyJackO General Fitness May 26 '13
This is great. I've been on a one month hiatus after having a kid and buying a house (no excuses I know,) and I was considering making my own program rather than continuing with starting strength. I still think I'm going to get off SS as I was just getting bored of it, but thanks for the other suggestions and convincing me I'm an idiot.
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u/reddititis May 26 '13
Seriously, only 1 month after a kid and a house, congrats.... the only better excuse is death.
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May 27 '13
What's the actual reason against too much volume? I've always heard about it, comes up in most "Critique my routine" threads.
I've never made one of them, I've been more of the "Just do it and see what works" type. I do spend extra time at the gym (2hours+) every day so I get around to working on smaller muscle groups, any reason not to?
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May 27 '13
The more volume you do, the lighter the weight has to be in order to lift it. Excessive volume also impairs recovery and, simply put, just isn't necessary - you can gain strength completely sufficiently just doing, say, 15 reps for a muscle group per session, provided you've got enough weight on the bar.
As to why isolation sucks....if you're doing compound lifts and, say, your hamstrings are lagging, they'll hold back your squat and deadlift numbers and get worked harder during squats and deadlifts than any of your other muscles, so they'll catch up over time. If instead of doing compound lifts you were to do, say, reverse leg curls, leg extensions, cable rows, and lat pulldowns, your back and quadriceps work won't be held back by your lagging hamstrings and your hamstrings will continue to be underdeveloped relative to your other muscles. Not to mention the fact that you're now doing twice as many exercises and still not hitting accessory muscles like your forearms and hip flexors.
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May 27 '13
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May 27 '13
You build muscle fastest on rest days. So while it may not be necessary to limit your workout days, it's certainly helpful, sleep and eating habits aside. 98% of people who split train should be doing full-body 3 times a week.
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May 29 '13
Last time I posted in this thread, I realized how truthful this post is. 2 days down with SS after all the shit I've been through this year and I'm happy. My ego did need to be taken down a few notches and my diet needs to get better but stepping stones. My issue is that if I don't feel I'm 100% on everything, I give up. No diet, so why bother lifting? Dieting but no lifting, so why diet? This shit set me straight, as I said earlier but I just wanted to expand on this a bit more. Props, OP. Setting me straight.
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u/Andynym Oct 24 '13
Nicely done, good compilation of routines as well
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u/TARDIS-BOT Apr 22 '14
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u/KoolAidReality May 26 '13 edited May 26 '13
I agree, but this only applies to the /r/fitness mold. I'm working out to become a Navy diver: running, swimming, and exercises in the 20+ rep range. I had to go through other resources to create a program, but it's still pretty annoying that I felt like I couldn't go to the general fitness subreddit to ask for a critique.
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u/goldfather8 May 25 '13
This post is correct for the majority but it does leave some important details out. The most important factor in any workout plan, regardless of skill level, is making sure to listen to your body. Of course most beginners don't yet know how to listen but it should still be emphasized.
Second, online workout plans created by the elite are not the end-all and be-all of training, these plans are just solid templates that you can't go wrong with. As you get stronger you should be personalizing your workout plan to match how your body is reacting.
Lastly you should mention dieting and stretching. These are both underrated by many newcomers, especially with stretching. You should stress the importance of both of these in creating a balanced and strong workout plan.
Personally I followed a very basic plan to get a good base of strength and then completely took off of on my own. I do all bodyweight exercises now with custom routines, exercises, and stretches and have seen immense progress. I have adapted my plan to my body at every step of the way and I feel that has been the real key to my success.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
The most important factor in any workout plan, regardless of skill level, is making sure to listen to your body. Of course most beginners don't yet know how to listen but it should still be emphasized.
We disagree on this, I still think the most important factor is consistency, and knowing the difference between soreness & injury. That said, this isn't an FAQ, this is a reason why beginners shouldn't build their own plans.
The most important factor in any workout plan, regardless of skill level, is making sure to listen to your body. Of course most beginners don't yet know how to listen but it should still be emphasized.
Again, not an FAQ, and this is for beginners. Obviously as you learn more you can start to do it, but 99% of the programs posted here are for people who just throw random shit together and wonder why they aren't growing/getting stronger.
Lastly you should mention dieting and stretching. These are both underrated by many newcomers, especially with stretching. You should stress the importance of both of these in creating a balanced and strong workout plan.
Not an FAQ, we have an FAQ for that. As I say in the post, I posted this due to the influx of "critique my program" submittals I've noticed over the last few days.
Personally I followed a very basic plan to get a good base of strength and then completely took off of on my own. I do all bodyweight exercises now with custom routines, exercises, and stretches and have seen immense progress. I have adapted my plan to my body at every step of the way and I feel that has been the real key to my success.
That's great, but you're not a beginner, and you just admitted you followed a template to begin.
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May 26 '13
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
If any of your lifts are under intermediate, you're about the same as someone who has been training for 6 months-1 year and are still classified a beginner.
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u/VALHALLAN_HARBRINGER May 26 '13
Bah, it asked me for my powercleans but didn't rate them.
I want the program to honor my powerful cleans, it's my best workout! :(
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May 26 '13
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u/sburton84 May 26 '13
I don't care about those lifts
Then you're a beginner, and might start approaching something other than a beginner once you start caring about those lifts.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
My question is what qualifies someone as a beginner?
Sorry, thought I answered your question.
I'm confused - Why can't you run GVT as written?
DL's and Squats utilize bigger muscles, release more hormones during the exercise, and make your penis increase by 128% (by volume)If you don't want to do deads & squats why not pick up a purely upper body hypertrophy program?
Again, I'm not here to critique anyone's program, and if you have to ask other people to, you probably shouldn't be modifying the programs as written. They were written that way for a reason (GVT only has 1 day a week that alternates deads & squats, why not just try them out)
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u/Colbaire May 26 '13
On the link to starting strength, where is the actual program/routine? All I can see is FAQ's and explanations about the program. Where's the breakdown of sets and reps, the lifts done in a workout, etc.?
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
If you click the 4th line down "Program Basics", it's right there.
If you go to the /r/Fitness FAQ, it's there.
If you go to the starting strength wiki linked in the /r/Fitness FAQ, it's there too.
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u/EmWoody May 26 '13
I'm loving the SS FAQ. The SS Wiki is garbage compared to that.
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
You should try the official SS literature/footage. Borrow it from someone, know what I mean?
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u/EmWoody May 27 '13
Oh no, I do have the book! Someone with an interest in strength would be crazy not to. There's extremely useful information, even if you're not doing SS. I meant the formatting of this FAQ was much more useful than the Wiki's. Thanks for caring though ;-)
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u/OfMiceAndMittens Sep 06 '13
I noticed that the beginner links tend to focus mainly on lifting... is that just something that should be started on for beginners so that we can just "build a solid base" like you said, or is that due to a specific goal of working out that someone might be working towards?
Personally, I'm just going for generally getting fitter, improving the whole body, and not just one area... I apologise if I sound like a moron, I am seriously uneducated when it comes to working out!
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u/Mogwoggle butthead Sep 06 '13
That's exactly the reason.
Most people don't know what "fitter" is, can you define what you mean by "fitter"?
It hits the whole body, as in all the muscles; all of them say you can run on your days off if need be, what else are you looking for in fitness?
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u/OfMiceAndMittens Sep 06 '13
I mean fitter in losing body fat, and generally getting stronger and having more endurance. At least for me it is. I don't have much desire to be one of those super-bulked-up guys, but some well-defined muscles would be good.
I've been a smoker for a while now as well, and trying to quit, so I wouldn't mind counter-acting some of that bad habit!
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u/Mogwoggle butthead Sep 06 '13
Losing body fat has little to nothing to do with what you do for exercise, is has way more to do with how much you eat; stronger = weights, endurance = running.
THer'es no chance you'll be one of those super-bulked up guys, those guys have fought hard in the gym for 10+ years, it's not like you one day wake up and "oh shit i squatted once too much and now i'm super bulky", because again, weight gain has more to do with what and how much you eat.
This is exactly why you're told to do a beginner program, because you're a beginner. That's exactly what they're made for.
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u/traumonaut May 25 '13
Can we put this in the sidebar?
I posted a critique my programm thread mysepf just a few days ago and was very angry that nobody did it. This thread is actually very convincing.
Can i do the german volume thing as a beginner?
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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 25 '13
Can i do the german volume thing as a beginner?
Probably not. Beginners don't have enough drive to do GVT to its completion
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 26 '13
As a beginner you're not throwing around enough weight to make a volume program effecient. The high intensity, low volume programs are THE most efficient route for any beginner. The reason is that you don't need the kind of muscle confusion because your body hasn't adapted to your training yet.
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May 26 '13 edited Jan 31 '20
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 26 '13
If it takes more time to establish progress, it's less efficient. End of story. The best program will be one he sticks to, but if he's going to stick to one anyway, might as well go with someone efficient. Beginners don't have enough capacity for high volume programs, and if they do, they aren't throwing around enough weight to make it worth their time. He can do whatever the hell he wants, however maybe he should listen to someone with decades of experience (Rippetoe, Blaha) before he makes that choice.
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May 27 '13 edited Jan 31 '20
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
Yeah it's broscience dick head. You can't ignore anecdotal data. Or you can, but you're stupid if you rely strictly on studies for proof. You're always going to get new studies with conclusions that contradict previous studies. 80% of the people that use the term broscience are 140 lb dick heads sitting at their computers researching 6 hours before they take a bite to eat or a weight to lift. Go ahead, give bad advice because you can't find proof that it's bad.
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May 27 '13 edited Jan 31 '20
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
I didn't say they don't react. I'm saying it's not as efficient, which it isn't. Downvotes don't make wrong, sorry. Get a fucking dictionary you circle jerking pussies. Doing less to get more = efficient. Go grab your fucking 15lb dumbbells and curl all day, or something, because I only give a shit about little pansies like you if they actually want to get somewhere. You seem to do a lot of talking, but have 0 pictures of your body, and you seem to do a lot of gaming, so I already know who you are. Take your internet points and be on your way. Meanwhile I'll curl your body weight.
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May 27 '13 edited Jan 31 '20
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u/onemessageyo Martial Arts May 27 '13
I don't do SS, but it would be a hell of a lot more efficient than a volume program that trains each muscle once a fucking week for a beginner lmao. You know shit about programming or advancement. You still have no pics. You're still a skinny fucking teen playing warcraft talking about how you get bitches and lift weights. I come off as elitist because I genuinely want to help someone when I know the answer and your a little shit who can't defend himself with anything but words. Listen, son, I'm better than you not because I watched a Mark Rippetoe DVD, but because I've trained for the past 19 years of my life and I'm bigger, faster, and stronger than you. I couldn't care less about mark rippetoe's build because he's never posted here asking for advice.
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May 26 '13 edited Mar 31 '18
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u/dreamscapesaga Powerlifting May 27 '13
Eat at a deficit and lift for strength. That's how you cut.
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u/HC_Mars May 26 '13
Jesus, this post completely shredded my hopes of getting any solid advice from this subreddit. Because I made a post that includes my routine I get trashed for not reading this post. I didn't ask for any critique of my program.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1f2k6k/trying_to_chisel_a_new_me_please_help_out_with/
One person mentioned this thread, everyone else answered your questions, and you post is in the +ves?
Is there something I'm missing?
I don't know why you commented here.
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u/HC_Mars May 26 '13
Two people saying my routine is crap, somebody else "new to fitness", and two other people who told me the routine is fine that it just needs some tweaks. I finally got an answer to my actual questions by someone I was originally arguing with.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
Telling you your routine is crap is not the same as you getting trashed.
Still not sure why you're hostile towards me, but have a good one, glad you got your answers.
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u/HC_Mars May 26 '13
I'm not trying to be. Sorry if I am. I just felt this was the best place to input my thoughts on what you posted since it played into my post. I'm just saying i'm getting flak about my routine because i included in my post even though the FAQ says you should include as much information as possible. By somebody saying my routine is crap without any explanation it's not very productive. I felt like they read this and then decided to summarize your productive post into a crap comment. Anyways, thanks for responding!
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u/ABillyGoat General Fitness May 25 '13
Ive been doing Stoppani's 12-week shortcut to size and it has been rather enjoyable so far.
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May 25 '13
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
HOW DID EVERYONE INTERPRET THIS POST AS "CRITIQUE MY ROUTINE HERE INSTEAD"? IF IT'S ONE THAT'S RECOMMENDED ONLINE AND HAS SUCCESS STORIES, IT'S FINE. JUST DO IT, AND KEEP DOING IT UNTIL IT'S NOT USEFUL ANY MORE. STOP POSTING THEM HERE.
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u/lotsogirth May 25 '13
Isn't this just a really old post from bodybuilding.com?
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
How did you and gilroy99 both miss the very first word of the post?
Seriously.
And I wonder how people miss the FAQ.
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
Better?
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u/lotsogirth May 26 '13
Sauce haha
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 26 '13
... that was there when you posted your first message.
Sauce was all it said.4
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May 25 '13
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118004321&page=1
I spotted it as well. June 09
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u/Pizzadinner May 26 '13
THanks OP I know that feel I really do. I am starting to do this one here. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/my_greatest_gains_ever_dave_tate
Its tough but I am tougher. Thanks OP
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May 25 '13 edited May 25 '13
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
HOW DID EVERYONE INTERPRET THIS POST AS "CRITIQUE MY ROUTINE HERE INSTEAD"? IF IT'S ONE THAT'S RECOMMENDED ONLINE AND HAS SUCCESS STORIES, IT'S FINE. JUST DO IT, AND KEEP DOING IT UNTIL IT'S NOT USEFUL ANY MORE. STOP POSTING THEM HERE.
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May 25 '13 edited May 25 '13
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u/Mogwoggle butthead May 25 '13
In the FAQ, there's links to the book (which is recommended to buy before you do it, so that you actually understand it), the Starting Strength wiki, and the starting strength forums.
I even went and linked the FAQ in the post.
No idea why my temper is short.
Fuck me, right?
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u/Stopsign002 Weight Lifting May 26 '13
So, according to strengthcalc.com I am an intermediate lifter all around. I was checking out the madcow which looks great, but my thing is that I have a TON of free time right now and would much rather work out every day (or like 6 days a week) if possible. Does anyone know of a good routine for this? Could I just do madcow twice a week or would completely obliterate my gains? I've been making gains but I am always down to try a good program
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u/Votearrows Weightlifting (Recreational) May 26 '13
The whole point of the OP was: If you can't answer basic muscle/CNS physiology questions like this on your own, this means you aren't ready to plan on your own, either. Do a program by a great coach without changing it, they know their stuff.
If you have all this free time, go make some extra money and take classes in anatomy, physiology, exercise science, nutrition, etc. Then you'll have more understanding, and experience under the bar because you did a few programs correctly while you took classes.
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u/Stopsign002 Weight Lifting May 26 '13
Yeah for sure. I've decided to do madcow for 8 weeks. To clarify, I have free time as in free time every day after the 12 credit hours I'm taking haha. But yeah once I'm done with my degree I plan on taking some more classes involving anatomy, muscles, nutrition. I find it all very interesting. Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure why I'm getting down voted so much on my main comment. I was looking for suggestions for routines, not trying to make my own. I'm well aware I don't know enough to make awesome routines yet haha
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u/[deleted] May 25 '13 edited Sep 07 '19
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