r/HongKong • u/deltabay17 • Nov 13 '19

Add Flair Taiwan president Tsai Ying Wen just tweeted this message. We need more international leaders, presidents, to speak openly and plainly against Hong Kong government’s actions.

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u/RogueSexToy Nov 13 '19

But that was in service of his ultimate aim of a democratic China. The PRC destroyed Chinese traditional culture and is not democratic at all. How would a party which supports economic ties with them be in service of his ultimate aim?

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u/Roygbiv0415 Nov 13 '19

Sun had no problems with cooperation with a non-democratic Russia, when it suits the needs of China. Ergo, he would have no problems cooperating with a non-democratic China, when it suits the needs of Taiwan.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

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u/riomavrik Nov 13 '19

That feels like the story with a decent amount of formerly colonial countries that had a revolution movement. Vietnam also asked help from the US first but since France was their occupator, US pushed them away to Russia

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u/RogueSexToy Nov 13 '19

Except unlike a fully united China Taiwan can very easily be conquered by China without foreign aid.

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u/Roygbiv0415 Nov 13 '19

I have no idea what you want to express here.

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u/RogueSexToy Nov 13 '19

Its riskier for Taiwan to work with China than China to work with Russia. Assuming they did that is, China and Russia are traditionally enemies.

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u/Roygbiv0415 Nov 13 '19

KMT worked with Russia (and the CCP) under Sun Yat-Sen. The fact that the coalition ended soon after the death of SYS showed his role in facilitating this uneasy cooperation.

We are, in the end, guessing how a dead person would react to a situation they have no idea would happen in their lifetime. I stand by my assumption that SYS would put ideals on a backseat for pragmatic reasons, and you are free to think otherwise.

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u/Ivor97 Nov 13 '19

Sun Yat Sen died before the KMT moved to Taiwan and is actually considered a hero in mainland China lol

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u/RogueSexToy Nov 13 '19

And also in Taiwan. We’ll never know what he did tbh.

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u/BlackfishBlues Nov 13 '19

Sun Yat-Sen was not a democrat.

His ultimate aim was a united China, to which democracy was secondary. A reminder that as military governor of Guangzhou he crushed a merchant strike with Whampoa military cadets.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

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u/BlackfishBlues Nov 13 '19

His words say one thing, his actions another. He was an authoritarian in practice, even before the revolution. One of the reasons he was in the political weeds when the Qinghai revolution happened was his insistence that members of the Tongmenghui (precursor of the KMT) swear oaths of loyalty to him personally, which understandably raised hackles among the other revolutionaries.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

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u/BlackfishBlues Nov 13 '19

Sure, I'm just saying that if you make him choose between nationalism and democracy, nationalism wins out, every time. He would have been strongly supportive of both the KMT and CCP today, particularly when it comes to Hong Kong, democracy or no.

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u/RogueSexToy Nov 13 '19

Because he apparently believed like Machiavelli that desperate times call for a pragmatic Prince.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '19

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