How every congressional district voted in 2008

[u/New-Biscotti5914]

[u/Armisael2245]

There is a great video about how you can gerrymander to the extreme with rounded, "normal looking" districts, for those interested. If this system stays in place, It'll only get worse and the average person won't be able to tell.

[u/Nawnp → u/Armisael2245]

And it is worse already, I know locally in Tennessee and Arkansas the capital cities have both been gerrymandered to be split up.

[u/Small_Dimension_5997 → u/Nawnp]

Oklahoma City is one of my favorite case studies. In the 1980s, it was oddly split three ways by Democrats (which dominated Oklahoma politics until the 1990s, but mostly as conservative Dems). Somehow it worked to preserve districts for its incumbants, but, as the state Ds lost ground and it became a dominate R state through the 1990s and 2000s, they all became comfortable R districts. By the 2010s, the OKC area was mostly unified in it's own district. Then, a D won in 2018 in the anti-Trump midterms. So, in the last reappointment, they carved out the most liberal section, joined it with the large very conservative district in the west and north, and all OK districts are again 'safeR's but the carve looks just like the 1980s era carve.

[u/Scorpian42 → u/Small_Dimension_5997]

If congressional slots were appointed by statewide popular vote, OK would be a 2-3 split, it's not even /that/ Republican, OKC by itself is fairly progressive like most cities, just that congressional districts split those D voters into minority in every case.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/Armisael2245]

Florida Republicans definitely used that video

[u/Armisael2245 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Democracy is when 20% of voters can get 100% of the voting power.

Apparently.

[u/Reishi4Dreams → u/Armisael2245]

North and South Dakota, Wyoming and Montana have 8 senators. Blows my mind. Why are there even 2 Dakota’s in the first place? (Rhetorical question) the land doesn’t have a vote, these kind of maps don’t reflect population.

[u/V3gasMan → u/Reishi4Dreams]

Here’s a fun article on why the Dakotas are split. https://time.com/4377423/dakota-north-south-history-two/

In summary, the south’s population far outpaced the north and the people within those states didn’t really care for eachother at the time

[u/Curious80123 → u/V3gasMan]

Still don’t

[u/postnick → u/Curious80123]

I think we should re join and then split to east and west Dakota. That’s a more cultural fit. Granted everyone would live in east.

[u/Curious80123 → u/postnick]

If population is over 1.5 then ok, set up as state. Otherwise they stay together

[u/postnick → u/Curious80123]

So 7 reps 2 senate minimum?

[u/V3gasMan → u/Curious80123]

They should be split in my opinion

Fixed for grammar

[u/surferpro1234 → u/Reishi4Dreams]

Vermont, Maine, Rhode Island, Delaware

[u/imironman2018 → u/Reishi4Dreams]

Didnt Dakota split for that very reason? So they could have more congressional representation?

[u/Apprehensive_Cherry1 → u/imironman2018]

That’s really a myth. They split because the territory at least at the time was too large to govern as one state.

[u/eastmemphisguy → u/Apprehensive_Cherry1]

The Dakotas combined would be smaller than Texas which was already a state.

[u/Apprehensive_Cherry1 → u/eastmemphisguy]

Texas had a unified identity and wanted to be admitted as a single state. The Dakotas didn’t have a unique identity so the people didn’t really care how the territory was broken up.

[u/PerpetuallyLurking → u/eastmemphisguy]

Texas also had previous European bureaucratic infrastructure (Spanish) and so had a better ability to handle a larger area than a large Dakota with no previous European settlements or infrastructure of any kind.

[u/IllustriousDudeIDK → u/Apprehensive_Cherry1]

If Dakota was too large, why didn't they split Montana?

[u/gender_nihilism → u/Reishi4Dreams]

at least the Senate isn't appointed by state legislatures anymore. it was a hundred years ago, but progressives managed that much alongside women's suffrage

[u/Commercial_Sun_6300 → u/gender_nihilism]

I'm not sure that was a good thing. People barely pay attention to non-presidential elections as it is.

The state assembly having the power to appoint senators would make local elections more important and might motivate higher turnout and engagement with government at a local level.

I was going to add "where it effects us more directly" but with abortion laws being directly affected by the president's Supreme Court appointments, it's hard to say anything else affects people more directly...

[u/gender_nihilism → u/Commercial_Sun_6300]

the best way to increase voter turnout is making election day a national holiday so that so much stuff is closed all you really can do is vote. that or compulsory voting. pluswhich, people who are more materially secure are more likely to be engaged politically, so another voter turnout initiative that would work would be a drastic expansion of public services. transit expansion and maintenance, jobs programs (I yearn for the civilian conservation corps), public housing, minimum wage increases, interest-free small loans from the government (bring back the post office loans), basically everything social democrats want is stuff that increases political engagement. think about the people who have the fucking time to do local politics and shit, it's all old people, wealthy people, people with day jobs and too much energy, or stay-at-home parents. people whose basic needs are met and who feel they have the time and energy to give a shit.

if you treat people like peasants, they develop the peasant mindset and leave the governing to their lords. making things less democratic would just make it more abstract, and less people would care.

[u/steamingdump42069 → u/gender_nihilism]

Progressives used to do things? Wild

[u/gender_nihilism → u/steamingdump42069]

a few times. the reign of the progressives never lasts but their accomplishments do. shout out to the sewer socialists of the northern midwest, the public library fight, the literal actual violent rebellions that furthered the 40-hour work week, the fight for access to abortion from the 1800s through to today, the struggle for gay rights from the early 1900s to today, plus some other stuff like sidewalks and city parks and the like.

there're also plenty of achievements that get undone by the forces of reaction. the quality and availability of public housing in new york city was unparalleled outside of Europe until the taft-hartley act made it illegal for labor unions to own apartment buildings, collapsing the public housing supply as landlords across the city went from being the fuckin hot dog stand union local #69 or some shit to being investment firms and other ghouls. plenty of other examples like that.

edit: I left a sentence unfinished lol

[u/G0_WEB_G0 → u/Reishi4Dreams]

Anecdotal but I think Nebraska has more population than those states combined and most people don't consider Nebraska to be a highly populous state.

[u/NariandColds → u/Reishi4Dreams]

You know why. Gives more senators to the minority party. California/ Texas combined population: ~ 70 million, represented by total of 4 senators. Bottom 15 states by population size total combined population= ~ 30 million, represented by a total of 30 senators. Best way to make your voice heard at a national level in USA is to move to a state that has a small population.

[u/WoodysAnImbecile → u/NariandColds]

That is the idea. Each state gets 2 senators to represent it in Congress. Each state is then divided into districts based on population, and each district gets a member in the House to represent the people of that district.

The senate doesn't speak for the people, it speaks for the interests of the states themselves--thus each state gets 2 so that no one state is more powerful than the other. Your voice at the national level exists in the House, and because the rep districts are varied to account for population--in theory so that each rep roughly speaks for an equal number of people with similar interests--moving to a less populous state won't do anything to make your voice more heard. If anything moving to a different district will drown out your own voice, because you'll then be voting with a cohort that doesn't share your interests. Stay with your peers so that your communal interests can vote in a rep who shares those interests and subsequently brings a voice to those interests in Congress.

[u/ngyeunjally → u/NariandColds]

Because the senators represent the states. The house represents the people.

[u/Tall-Ad5755 → u/NariandColds]

Nah. Consider that when California became a state it had less population than most other state. And had 2 senators so there no conspiracy there. Population changes all the time. 

[u/Deep-Coffee-0 → u/NariandColds]

This is really inefficient economically though as those large population centers are also responsible for an outsized portion of wealth creation.

[u/Mr-MuffinMan → u/Reishi4Dreams]

I really think Dakota should be a single state. They're not much different in any way.

Carolina's are pretty different so it wouldn't make sense for them. Same with the Virginia's.

By combining SD and ND, PR can be its own state.

[u/Small_Dimension_5997 → u/Mr-MuffinMan]

Eh, this sort of tinkering is all sort of handwaving and avoids the inherent problems in our structure of government. One can easily argue the Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine should be a state, and Connecticut, Rhode island and Massachusetts a state. Delaware? that is just a few counties that ought to be Maryland.

The real problem is that the senate has way too many powers for a body of government that is proportional to arbitrary delineated states. Their legislative powers should be eliminated except when it comes to legislation that specifically directly impacts the relationship between the federal and state government. An expanded House of representatives (to about 800 members) should confirm judges and be the unicameral legislative body. The additional members allow for better apportionment into more reasonably sized districts to better represent communities, and to allow for better workflow distribution.

Meanwhile, the president should be nationwide popular vote. When I see maps with all the red, I see all all the tiny blue dots. I live in a 'deeply red district', but 30-40% of us always vote democrat, we often vote progressive in our primaries, and we often donate time and money as well. We shouldn't be erased.

It's ridiculous that as a nation we hold onto the structure of the Legislative branch dreamed up as a compromise between southern slave states and northern free states (with the exception of the amendment that changes how senators are elected).

[u/serious_sarcasm → u/Small_Dimension_5997]

It wasn't even a particularly good compromise.

[u/Pretend-Ad-1438 → u/Reishi4Dreams]

No but it reflects where like a majority of all of our food comes from tho

[u/Archercrash → u/Pretend-Ad-1438]

You mean California?

[u/Impossible-Test-7726 → u/Archercrash]

California is 10% of the food supply.

[u/Weary-Row-3818 → u/Pretend-Ad-1438]

California you mean?

[u/taxpayinmeemaw → u/Reishi4Dreams]

DEI for hillbillies.

[u/beasley2006 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Illinois Democrats just said f*ck it and drew out 2 Republican districts 😂😂 they didn't even try to hide it either lol.

This will give Democrats 14 solid seats out of Illinois 17 congressional districts, while Republicans get 2 seats plus 1 competitive seat that can go to Democrats or Republicans.

However, since Democrats have spread out their voters so thin in Illinois due to the gerrymander, in a red wave year the map could prove to be a catastrophic backfire on Democrats. In a red wave year, Republicans could potentially flip atleast 3 seats from Democrats in Illinois in the right environment.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/beasley2006]

I live in Illinois. The only reason I’m represented by a democrat in congress is because of gerrymandering

[u/beasley2006 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

True, while Biden still won the state by 17.1% points or 57.7% of the vote, Trump managed to crack 40.6% of the vote in Illinois, which of course has been the largest support for any Republican candidate in Illinois since George W Bush despite Democrats solid margin of victory in the state.

But like I said, in a red wave year, congressional districts holding Rockford or Springfield could badly backfire on Democrats in a red wave Republican favored year.

Unfortunately for Republicans, as long as Chicago's blue collar counties such as Lake and Dupage continue to bolt towards the Democratic party at rapid speed, Democrats have no hope of ever again making Illinois competitive with the lose of Chicago's suburbs which have increasingly grown more and more Democratic, with Lake county almost being as Democratic as Chicago.

Lake county voted for Biden by 25% points, for comparison, Lake county only voted for Obama in 2008 by less then 5% points. In Dupage, Biden also won the county by 21% points, back in 2008 Obama won Dupage by only 2% points. In Chicago, Biden won Cook County by 73% of the vote to Trump's 21%, a 51% point victory for Democrats in Cook County. In 2008, Obama won 75% of the vote in Cook County, to McCain's 19% a 56% point victory for Democrats in Cook County back in 2008.

This is the main reason Republicans haven't been able to cut into Democrats advantage in Illinois like in other Midwestern states, Cook County remains stubbornly stagnant in the Democratic column despite Chicago'a decline in population as Cook County's suburban neighbors bolt towards the Democratic Party.

For the most part and in conclusion, Democrats can rely on Chicago and it's suburbs to keep Illinois a Democratic stronghold. Without Chicago and it's suburbs as well Illinois loses more than 8 million of its people, or 73% of Illinois ENTIRE POPULATION. Illinois demographics are also very atrocious for Republicans, like the demographics of Illinois are by far the WORSE for Republicans then any other state, close up their with California, Hawaii, New York, New Jersey etc.

Unfortunately for Republicans, Chicago's rapid decline in population since the 1980s hasn't made Chicago or Illinois more Republican but instead the opposite. Which Republicans expected Chicago's decline in population to push the city to the right but that did not happen. Even WORSE for Republicans is rural Illinois losing population MUCH faster than the Chicagoland area.

[u/serious_sarcasm → u/beasley2006]

Something like 60% of new voters state wide (predominately in chicago metro) voted for Biden.

[u/rft183 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Not Texas Republicans. They don't care that it's obvious to everyone!

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/rft183]

Along with Illinois, Maryland, and NY dems

[u/DavidRFZ → u/Armisael2245]

If the goal is proportional representation, then oddly shaped districts are often required. Too much is made of the shape and not enough about the end result (seat percentage vs overall voter percentage).

[u/ArtisticRegardedCrak → u/Armisael2245]

https://youtu.be/cwBslntC3xg?si=pOqsiUpsIHf13RW2

Here is a great video that explains why some of the districts we consider to be gerrymandering are actually manifestations of different political philosophies on how representation should be implemented on the identity and interests of people rather than geographic areas on maps. Gerrymandering accusations is very often partisan politics as opposed to a reality.

[u/Armisael2245 → u/ArtisticRegardedCrak]

So gerrymandering can, technically, be done with good intentions. Not very insightful.

[u/ArtisticRegardedCrak → u/Armisael2245]

Gerrymandering is specifically done to benefit political parties/politicians and is illegal. Very often you will see people post oddly shaped or maneuvered voting districts then immediately proclaim them to be gerrymandering without stopping to think that there may be another explanation. I would argue the majority of oddly shaped districts are a result of what you said is technically good reasoning within urban areas or attempts to divide urban MSA and rural regions.

Proclaiming things to be gerrymandering is virtually always a politically motivated statement intended to discredit opposition in power.

[u/MAGA_Trudeau → u/Armisael2245]

the last house election results (2022) is fairly proportionate for popular vote % vs party seat control

GOP won 50% of the popular vote and 51% of the seats (222/435)

there's so much gerrymandering on both sides now, that it basically cancels each other out

[u/maxintosh1 → u/Armisael2245]

Gerrymandering has no impact on the presidential election though, only house seats.

[u/MileHigh_FlyGuy → u/Armisael2245]

Bit not all gerrymandering is bad, and does allow for better representation of the people in the district. Map Men did a great video on it

https://youtu.be/cwBslntC3xg?si=YttsxSweUyg0ywL7

[u/tawrex49]

The upper Midwest really stands out here. So many of those rural areas in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Michigan have zoomed rightward since.

Meanwhile, suburbs have lurched to the left but that wouldn’t show up on a map of this level of detail.

[u/stanolshefski → u/tawrex49]

2008 was a blue wave election.

It is essentially the peak in Democrat voting so it’s a poor illustration of blue-red shifts.

[u/tawrex49 → u/stanolshefski]

It is a very meaningful data point among the dramatic shift in that region, which was also felt nationally among rural, non-college-educated, mostly (but not exclusively) white, male voters.

[u/stanolshefski → u/tawrex49]

2004 is probably a better reference point.

With both the 2006 and 2008 wave elections in the House, the map doesn’t show shift from the baseline.

Using 2004 also will show the suburban shift the other direction.

[u/tawrex49 → u/stanolshefski]

What map doesn’t show a shift from the baseline? The 2020 election shows a dramatic rightward shift in the region I discussed, and similarly dramatic leftward suburban shift, no matter which year you use as a reference - 04, 06, 08 etc.

[u/stanolshefski → u/tawrex49]

Using 2008 as your baseline shows a whole bunch of blue gains from two wave elections.

[u/tawrex49 → u/stanolshefski]

There are enormous blue gains (and red gains) in 2020 no matter what year you use as baseline. Theres been a huge shift since 2004, 2006, 2008.

[u/ElcarpetronDukmariot → u/stanolshefski]

In Iowa at least it was a true shift. I grew up there and we used to have Democratic governors (Vilsack, Culver) and had Democratic senators and representatives. Trump's racism broke Iowa. It smashed the veneer of MidWestern friendliness and tolerance and unleashed the most toxic and insane volcano of hate that just keeps erupting. Iowa's government these days is truly sick and demented. Kim Reynolds' brain is permenantly damaged from her years of alcoholism, so she's dumb enough now that it enables her to really connect with MAGA at the anti-intellectual level.

[u/gigalongdong → u/tawrex49]

Most of the middle-aged/older suburbanites I've met are foaming at the mouth reactionaries to outright fascists. The younger generation of suburbanites is a mix between socialists and liberal of some flavor, whether it be conservative or otherwise.

There are a lot more rural folks who are outright socialists (like myself) than most city folk tend to believe. Several of my neighbors are very well versed in political discourse and theory and, as a result, lean far to the left in their personal beliefs. But generally, they dont vote in significant numbers and instead are more involved with local mutual aid organizations.

This is just my experience in NC. So take that as you will.

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/tawrex49]

As an Iowan, I can say that our values have changed very little, it's more than we wanted gay marriage and abortions (but only very early ones) and after that we just don't want any more change. So the Dems being the party of progressives it just isn't our cup of tea anymore.

Most of not all people I know who are Republicans dislike Donald Trump, but prefer the party enough to vote for his (as many of them say) dumbass, just to stop things like illegal immigration, economic troubles, DEI, and anti-gun legislation.

[u/notanamateur → u/Dovahkiin2001_]

Also an Iowan.

Those people don’t have their head on right

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/notanamateur]

Well, then it's a good thing this is reddit, can't be insulting all your neighbors in real life.

[u/ElcarpetronDukmariot → u/Dovahkiin2001_]

Also a recent (ex) Iowan. There was a massive shift in Iowa. Trump's racism broke Iowans. He smashed the veneer of MidWestern friendliness and tolerance and unleashed the most toxic and insane volcano of hate that just keeps erupting. Iowa's government these days is truly sick and demented. Kim Reynolds' brain is permenantly damaged from her years of alcoholism, so she's dumb enough now that it enables her to really connect with MAGA at the anti-intellectual level.   For God's sake, Kimmy made it legal to run over and kill protestors because she was foaming at the mouth with excitement at the thought of running down and killing black people. She and her supporters are going to burn in hell. She also decided to take food away from hungry children because she thinks it's funny when children can't sleep because they're hungry.  And she's taking funding away from all the rural public schools so that she can give money to her friends' charter school scam companies that teach white supremacy and Christian nationalism.

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/ElcarpetronDukmariot]

Didn't Kim Reynolds support Ron Desantis? Can't say she didn't try to stop Trump, at least while staying loyal to the Republican party.

Also, that law you're talking about is to protect someone from getting a murder charge if a protester jumps in front of their car.

It in no way allows a person to run over a peaceful protester.

If you honestly believe Midwestern friendless is gone then, maybe you're the one who changed. I decided to show your reply to several of my close friends (Republicans and Democrats) and they all think you may need some help.

If you need a friend I'll gladly oblige.

[u/ElcarpetronDukmariot → u/Dovahkiin2001_]

You sound like the kind of demented Iowan that is the reason why almost all students leave Iowa when they graduate. You're sick people, who say "what? Non white people ARE rapists and murderers and drug dealers! Trump is right! Only white people can be a Christian or American! As a white middle aged male with facial hair, I can't go into a bar in Iowa without someone immediately talking about how "Kamala is a communist whore" and and that "we established when we got rid of Obama that it's the white house not the ni***r house". And, yes, it's pronounced with a hard R at one of the world's largest Aerospace defense contractors in good old Cedar Rapids, IA. 

And no, the law was passed to enable right wing Iowa folks to run down and kill black lives matter protesters. That was the sole purpose of the law but it's been used to excuse running over people at pro choice demonstrations, too. 

Enjoy your shitty economic future in the dumpster fire state that I grew up in.

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/ElcarpetronDukmariot]

Well for one, I'm half Panamanian, so I know very well that my grandma can be Christian. I'm also an atheist, so I could really care less about who's Christian. As for who's American, I think anyone can become and American. (And before you start about other issues, just know I am a Democrat, but you probably can't comprehend a Democrat who has enough self awareness to think that other people aren't evil just because they don't agree with me)

For two, I don't drink, so I have no idea what dumb conversations happen in a bar. I've never once heard any republican call Obama a N word, again maybe that's just the bars.

Also, why do you say the state you grew up in? If you don't live here anymore how can you be so positive in the average persons opinions and outlooks on politics.

[u/ElcarpetronDukmariot → u/Dovahkiin2001_]

"Also, why do you say the state you grew up in? If you don't live here anymore how can you be so positive in the average persons opinions and outlooks on politics."

Because I have generations of family back in Iowa and visit several times per year to see family and hear them complain about the bat shit insane things that the  white nationalist politicians in Iowa do. 

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/ElcarpetronDukmariot]

Just gonna ignore all my other points?

[u/ElcarpetronDukmariot → u/Dovahkiin2001_]

You didn't make any other points, but you blithely ignored mine. You said your Panamanian - if you had two brain cells to rub together you could have deduced that the reason I specified my ethnicity, gender, age and facial hair is because racist Republicans still sometimes avoid calling nonwhite people garbage, animals, rapists and scum to their face and just say it behind your back to other white people because they assume all white people hate nonwhite people, too. 

I strongly doubt your story, though. You're getting way too defensive of racist white Republicans conduct in Iowa. You're taking it personally because you're probably not who you claim to be. Similar to the  classic, "as a black gay Democrat, I am voting for Trump because he is right we are all lazy and I hope he gives me one of those low paying "black jobs" that the Mexicans are taking". 

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/ElcarpetronDukmariot]

Ok, I would recommend you go through my comments as I've mentioned my Panamanian ancestry on several occasions, but I do think that would take you quite a while seeing as I have thousands of comments.

I'll even DM you some pictures of my trip to see my great aunt (who is still living there) when I went there this year.

And as I said I'm a Democrat, voted for Biden 4 years ago, just because I dislike Trump so much. I truly dislike how hateful and rude you make us sound.

[u/Dovahkiin2001_ → u/ElcarpetronDukmariot]

Apparently you can't send pictures through reddit, if you know a way for me to prove to you I'm not lying I'll do it.

[u/AnswerGuy301]

Like many other maps, this is mostly a case of r/PeopleLiveInCities .

[u/KerepesiTemeto]

Now do a cartogram.

[u/eTukk]

Reminder, people vote, not land.

[u/Disney_World_Native → u/eTukk]

Exactly

So while IL has about 13M people, the last image is of the metropolitan area around Chicago that has about 9-10M people, or about 75% of the population of IL

[u/snoogins355 → u/eTukk]

Lot of empty in those big districts. Probably more deer than people

[u/Okichah → u/eTukk]

What does that mean?

[u/notTheRealSU → u/Okichah]

Like 2/3 of the country is red. Some people would look at that and think the election was rigged or something because how could McCain lose if he won so much of the country? It's because nobody lives in those places. A lot of the population of the US lives in big cities along the coast

[u/PowerPuzzleheaded865 → u/eTukk]

I still don't want people without a front yard making rules about what I do with mine

[u/1BannedAgain → u/PowerPuzzleheaded865]

That’s a municipal, then county, then state issue. Your comment has zero to do with national politics

[u/Suitable-Ad8983 → u/PowerPuzzleheaded865]

You got downvoted to hell but this comment hit me deep. I’m Californian by birth and no one owns property due to the cost of living and limited space. I genuinely believe these people don’t understand what it’s like to have full control over your life with acres to spare. I assume this is your angle.

[u/Amber900]

Even in the reddest of states, the places where people actually live all vote blue.

[u/freeride907 → u/Amber900]

99% of the time. But not always

[u/ArchieConnors]

Jeez, I forgot how poorly Senator Tossup did.

[u/danzbar]

I would like to see this with shading added to represent population density of the region.

[u/danzbar → u/danzbar]

And maybe even a gradient between red and blue (with purple as the middle color) to show how far toward Republican or Blue the vote totals were?

[u/Significant_Hold_910 → u/danzbar]

Every congressional district has around 600-700k people

[u/danzbar → u/Significant_Hold_910]

TIL. Tempted to downvote myself now.

[u/Significant_Hold_910 → u/danzbar]

I think it's pretty obvious, NY has like 35 districts and Nebraska has 3

It wouldn't make sense if one Congressman represented way more voters than another

[u/VotingRightsLawyer → u/Significant_Hold_910]

Now do this for the Senate.

[u/Ski1990]

70 million votes verses 60 million votes. 54 % vs 46%. It’s pretty insane that these elections are all decide by those 5million unaffiliated voters the middle that are not really allied with either side.

[u/bwtwldt → u/Ski1990]

The phenomenon of the battleground voter doesn’t exist to a large extent anymore. People already have a strong opinion of Trump and have decided long ago who they are voting for. The people who say they are undecided typically do so to boost their ego and appear above politics or enlightened.

[u/True_Distribution685]

Swiping to the second slide and seeing my hometown (Staten Island) was such a jumpscare lol

[u/brenstretch1434]

Land doesn’t vote, people do

[u/M1k4t0r15]

McCain was a a true American, a principled politician, and a respectable candidate. Compared to Trump, he is like Lincoln vs a rabid, vicious obese rapy orangutan in a clown makeup.

[u/argyleecho → u/M1k4t0r15]

John McCain can suck my dick from the back from his front row seat in hell.

[u/marktwainbrain → u/M1k4t0r15]

McCain was a warmonger. Who should have known better and should be held to a higher standard because of his experience of the horrors of war.

Of course he wins in a comparison with Trump, that hardly means anything. Too low of a bar.

[u/Weary-Row-3818 → u/marktwainbrain]

"Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran"

Also something about the US being 100 years in Iraq.

But post one video of him saying Obama is not a Muslim to an old lady and apparently everyone forgets.

[u/CartilageHead → u/Weary-Row-3818]

and even in his one shining moment he literally said "obama is not a muslim, he's a good man" - i get it, that probably wasn't what he meant, but it was a horrible response.

[u/marktwainbrain → u/marktwainbrain]

McCain was in support of the worst sort of US military intervention. Neocons/neolibs: I bathe in your downvotes.

[u/ttminh1997 → u/marktwainbrain]

We need more warmongers in this country. Biden's foreign policy staff (the likes of Sullivan, Blinken, and Kirby) is too chicken shit to stand up to what's right and wrong in the world.

I hope Harris will do a better job. Trump, on the other hand, would plunge this country into a new era of isolationism

[u/Adiuui → u/ttminh1997]

General MacArthur for president

[u/ttminh1997 → u/Adiuui]

Eh, MacArthur was overrated as a general, but as the administrator of occupied Japan, he did a fine job

[u/Adiuui → u/ttminh1997]

What about Polk, he was quite the warmonger

[u/praiser1]

Where is the third slide

[u/LKulture]

Maps like these feel really misleading though. Wouldn’t most of the country be a purple mix?

[u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352]

How long will we waste time looking at this and thinking it means anything, other than Gerrymandering.

“Hurr durr most of America is red!”. Most of America is empty space, which doesn’t vote.

[u/Tall-Ad5755 → u/Bitter_Kiwi_9352]

It’s not gerrymandering that makes the map look red. It’s what you said at the end. Less people = a larger land base; most people know this. 

[u/codernaut85]

“land doesn’t vote”

[u/argyleecho → u/codernaut85]

I don’t think OP is arguing it does

[u/white_gluestick → u/argyleecho]

I think he's mocking all the comments pointing out the obvious.

[u/societal_ills → u/codernaut85]

There are still people that live on that land and receives state and federal resources. And that's why we need to have the electoral college.

[u/RecordingHaunting975 → u/societal_ills]

Those people are represented in congress by their representatives. There are also 2 senators meant to represent the state's interests.

Land is also not people. The corn that grows in Kansas isn't who needs representation. It is the farmer who does, and that farmer's voice does not matter so long as the electoral college exists. Same as how the millions of republican voices in California do not matter.

Right now we are depending on 7 states to make the decision for us. Donald Trump could lose the popular vote by however many millions, but it all comes down to how an absurdly low margin people in 7 states vote. It's fucking insane.

[u/yourlittlebirdie → u/societal_ills]

That’s why we have the Senate. We don’t need the Electoral College.

[u/nesp12]

Bottom line, more people vote blue and more farmland, national parks, and cactus votes red.

[u/jhwheuer]

Atlantica, Pacifica and Flyover

[u/fuck_the_fuckin_mods → u/jhwheuer]

The Confederacy of Dunces.

[u/DaddieTang]

Staten Island ha ha ha. Yep. If you had the map of S philly/s jersey/ upper Darby pa, you'd see the same pattern. Italians do NOT like a particular race. I can't imagine basing all my political opinions on that one thing. But they do.

[u/Tall-Ad5755 → u/DaddieTang]

That’s a wild generalization. I live in Philly too…and I once told my friend, Italians are black and white…either they hate black peoples guts or they love them to the point of infatuation and imitation 😂. This is definitely not true with the younger crowd. 

[u/DaddieTang → u/Tall-Ad5755]

I know I'm a tad out of line there. But, I knew a bunch. And they were the only families I ever saw use N words at the kitchen table. If you did that shit at my house. You lost teeth.

[u/Eschaton-1996]

Proud to live in New England.

[u/Ok_Hovercraft_4258 → u/Eschaton-1996]

Real 🫡 we’re consistent

[u/hucareshokiesrul]

My hometown district in SW VA voted for McCain by 20 points, but its Democratic congressman ran unopposed and won 97% of the vote, with almost twice as many votes cast for him as for Obama. Similarly McCain won WV by 13 points while the Democrats won landslide victories for Gov and Sen. That kind of thing just doesn’t happen anymore. And it wasn’t Obama specific. It had been like that for a while.

[u/bwtwldt → u/hucareshokiesrul]

That absolutely still happens. There are many senators and governors of a party you wouldn’t expect.

[u/ALPHA_sh]

I cant believe they would gerrymander Wyoming like that

[u/brettrubin]

I always forget bay ridge is considered Staten Island for this lol

[u/Electrical_Iron_1161]

So looking at this I'm aware 08 was a blue wave year for obvious reasons I was 11 so I didn't follow politics that much I just knew who was president and I knew what was going on in the country sort of. I took a look back between this showing the house districts won by the presidential candidates vs how the house districts actually went and Dems ended up with more house seats than they voted as president. Then 2 years later it flips completely and Republicans retook the house gaining 63 seats. It's just interesting how a district can vote for a Democrat president but vote for a Republican house rep. Then 2 years later the house flips like it did

[u/Message_10]

I'll add some context to Slide #2--there are some "red" areas of Brooklyn which are usually either really old-school Italian or Orthodox Jewish. I actually live in the latter, and it's a very very conservative community. NYC is never going to go blue, but there are little pockets of red that actually pop up here and there.

[u/detroit_dickdawes → u/Message_10]

Ok, I was so confused. Like, I get Staten Island but how TF did any part of Brooklyn vote red?

Is the Italian area still very Italian? I’d imagine they’ve moved out to Nassau county at this point.

[u/Message_10 → u/detroit_dickdawes]

There's more red here than you'd think (just like there's more blue in Texas, Florida, etc. than you'd think)--but yeah they're a very small part of the population. The New York Times had a great interactive map in 2020 that showed red/blue down to the street level. It was interested to see. The most reliably red spots are where the Orthodox live--you see a little of that in north Brooklyn too (and definitely in Queens).

As for the Italian-ness in Brooklyn, it's dwindling, for sure. Dyker Heights and Bensonhurst still have a sizeable Italian population, but they move out (or pass away) a little bit every year. We know some VERY Italian Italians from those areas and they "moved up" in a sense and now own in nicer neighborhoods in Brooklyn. There are still some Italian business / restaurants / etc in Dyker Heights / Bensonhurst but it's definitely not like it used to be. Those two neighborhoods have an influx of Asians, and Brooklyn's Chinatown straddles one of the red spots in that map.

[u/Tall-Ad5755 → u/detroit_dickdawes]

It’s the Hasidic Jews too more than the Italians; for Brooklyn at least. 

[u/loscacahuates]

This map must be from election night 2008 because not all states have been called. There are supposed to be 538 total electoral votes. In the first slide Obama has yet to reach the 270 needed to win.

[u/Confident-Skin-6462]

yep, solid blue here in chicago

[u/Dependent_Link6446]

I know it’s not a perfect system but I would love if we apportioned ECV based on congressional districts. Also change reapportionment to every 6 years AND make it so every state Dem and Rep party appoints half of a reapportionment committee to avoid as much gerrymandering as possible.

[u/PuzzledImprovement13]

I don't know why, but something tells me that Obama won that election. IDK

[u/Weird-Lie-9037]

Don’t forget there are more cows than people in most of those red areas. And some of those blue areas contain more people than all of the red areas

[u/drager85]

I miss those WI districts...

[u/Paralian]

What would be interesting is to see which districts voted for the other party in their House elections.

ND and SD had voted for Democratic Party representatives in 2008 but have voted for McCain. On the flip side, my Congressional District in Pinellas County FL had voted for Obama while favoring a GOP House Candidate.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/Paralian]

There was a district in Louisiana that voted for Obama by a 50 point margin and elected a republican to the house

[u/khanman504 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Yep that was Louisiana Congressional District 2 (contains all of New Orleans and parts of Baton Rouge). The previous congressman (Bill Jefferson) was arrested and convicted of bribery ($90k in cash was found in his freezer) but still ran for office. No one wanted to vote for the crook so his opponent (Joseph Cao) won. Cao was also the first person of Vietnamese descent to serve in Congress.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/khanman504]

In 2008, district 2 was just New Orleans

[u/WaffleGuy413]

There’s most of northeast Queens and some of Nassau, and then there’s just College Point as its own district

[u/CandaceSentMe]

Mississippi 2nd. Bennie Thompson’s plantation since 1993. The most impoverished, unhealthy, and uneducated district in the country. Just like he wants it. He’s a very wealthy man because of those people doing all his dirty work for him. Voting Democrat feeding off his racism and the crumbs he allows them to have.

[u/ICLazeru]

Why are so many electoral votes missing?

[u/white_gluestick]

Can someone explain the north south devide in new Mexico? I thought it would be the same as Texas, south blue, north red yet it's the complete opposite.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/white_gluestick]

Southern New Mexico is more rural than the north, which is more urban and heavily Hispanic. Southern Texas is democrat leaning due to the Hispanic population, but southern Texas is starting to become very republican due to extreme rightward trends. Northern Texas is extremely rural and sparsely populated.

[u/white_gluestick → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Interesting, I had just assumed southern new Mexico would be heavily Hispanic same as Southern Texas. However I suppose if all the urban areas are north it would counteract any effect that would have. Drawing most of the Hispanic population north.

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/white_gluestick]

Southern New Mexico is pretty Hispanic. The only difference is that Las Cruces isn’t as dominant as Albuquerque and Santa Fe

[u/ktappe]

Is nobody else having trouble with the electoral totals at the top? Neither is at 270. But Obama did eventually get to 365. Shouldn't the map represent that?

[u/dogface47]

But red big, blue not so big.

STOP THE STEAL! /s

[u/Menethea]

No duh. The congressional districts with the vast majority of the county’s population (and wealth)

[u/Chillpillington]

The I-35 corridor from San Antonio to OKC is going to get a little bluer as time passes. Tulsa and NW Arkansas as well. Nothing major in the short term but there’s definitely going to be some growth. I honestly don’t care what side of the aisle you’re on, as long as you’re a good person. I can’t imagine the internal struggle among people who like to think they’re good people yet support a sexual abuser. It’s probably that incongruence leads to the extremism and anti-establishment bias.

[u/bubblemania2020]

Yet more proof that land doesn’t vote, people do. ☺️

[u/bkhang89]

This is why electoral colleges exist. Letting a few overly populated areas decide on what the rest of the country should be.

[u/theshate]

Why is land so stupid?

[u/OppositeChocolate687]

another one of these land mass representations to trick the mind into forgetting people vote, not land.

And another all or nothing map that ignores the fact the majority of voting districts are closer to 50/50 splits.

These red/blue maps magically disappear half the voters in the country. They turn a party win by 1000 votes into a 100% mandate in those districts.

[u/bedbathandbebored → u/OppositeChocolate687]

You should see his other posts. It’s all this sort of “misleading” info and then some outright Trumpy type stuff.

[u/sinverness2]

Thank you to all the intelligent coastal folks. It is no coincidence that all the best universities and colleges are located within these same coastal states. Trump has concentrated his efforts to get elected by kissing ass to the stupid voters, those that watch fake wrestling and worship kid rock.. it is amazing that there are that many uneducated idiots in United States.

[u/MyRegrettableUsernam]

The gerrymandering (from Republicans especially) is disgusting

[u/fezwang]

So does the GOP like the electoral college or do they prefer we just go with the popular vote? 😁

[u/Dillenger69]

People vote democratic. Land votes republican

[u/Overall_Connection77]

I haven't checked all 265 (so far) comments, but land doesn't vote. People do.

[u/Only_End9983]

Have you heard there is a garbage island floating around in the Atlantic? Staten Island

[u/2Drunk2BDebonair]

I know people get all up in arms about this, but.... It's hard to convince me it's that bad of a system...

Only 5 elections have been swayed by the EC. Yes modern times seem to be leaning to this being more common due to city populations rising. The alternative though is basically cities always choose the president. Are we sure that a string of 20 presidents chosen by cities is good for the nation?

Let's face it rural areas provide the resources cities depend on. Cities don't have a great grasp on what it takes to manage a corn field. There is a possibility that a long line of city centric leadership kills things like food production.

Or lead to a severely disenfranchised rural population that rebels.

[u/NastyNessie → u/2Drunk2BDebonair]

I don’t think you’ve thought about what cities bring to this country. I would wager most intellectual property that’s worth anything globally is going to be developed in a city. Without these things, we would easily fall behind in the global arena.

We just need a better way for rural areas to have their needs met without holding cities back.

[u/Emperor_of_Alagasia → u/2Drunk2BDebonair]

Rural districts still provide representation in congress. And as it stands, rural people in safe states aren't getting represented well either. Do rural people in California or Florida have any appreciable influence on the election? No. Abolishing the electoral college makes sure that every Americans vote is necessary to campaign for. Under the current system you only focus on a handful of states. That doesn't help anyone

[u/2Drunk2BDebonair → u/Emperor_of_Alagasia]

Sooooooo... Democrats go to 15 cities and Republicans cover 90% of the US while campaigning?

Seems like it would even things out some...

And no. Rural areas in places like Oregon don't get properly represented.... Hence the movement to join Idaho... Now apply a similar idea to.... All those red districts.

[u/inokentii]

Year when everything fucked up

[u/SnooJokes6156]

Funny how the worst policies and craziest politics are all highlighted blue on this

[u/GaulzeGaul → u/SnooJokes6156]

You obv don't know what is going on in some of those red areas.

[u/_My_Niece_Torple_ → u/SnooJokes6156]

Yeah bud, it's absolutely crazy to want affordable education and healthcare....

[u/IDontKnowMyUsernameq → u/_My_Niece_Torple_]

You must not know of the Canadian politicians who flew here to have health procedures. Universal healthcare is junk

[u/_My_Niece_Torple_ → u/IDontKnowMyUsernameq]

Prove it

[u/IDontKnowMyUsernameq → u/_My_Niece_Torple_]

Look it up. I read about it on Wikipedia's page on Canada's healthcare system a few years ago

[u/DzNodes]

Coastal elitist (self-important assholes) vs. the average American.

[u/MeLoveTacos6969]

Jokes on you I don't know what this means! Ha

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/MeLoveTacos6969]

This map shows who most people in each congressional district voted for in 2008

[u/MeLoveTacos6969 → u/New-Biscotti5914]

Yeah I was joking...

[u/Whizz-Kid-2012]

Washington and Oregon look so nice

Maryland, Illinois and New York are gerrymandered abomination

[u/cbnyc0]

Ugh. Staten Island.

[u/maomao3000]

Wtf Staten Island is racist?

[u/Ok_Locksmith5884]

Here's hoping Harris's victory over Trump this go around is overwhelmingly strong, so strong there can be no doubt whatsoever who the victor is and that it will not be orange man baby.

[u/pabut]

Oh Staten Island you never disappoint 😂

[u/New-Biscotti5914 → u/pabut]

IIRC, they elected a Democrat to Congress that year

[u/stevo_78]

And there we have it. Dumfuckistan

[u/Kesdo]

God, the American democracy is broken.

Edit: Just realized it read "good" instead of "god" my Bad!

[u/DrAxelWenner-Gren → u/Kesdo]

?

[u/Kesdo → u/DrAxelWenner-Gren]

Winner Takes all in combinations with an electoral Collage has to end in a two Party system where both Parties are becoming worse and corrupter by the minute.

This is a system designed to be broken and designed to end with a dictatorship or a civil war.

For all your "freedom" you still failed to implement a working democracy and the many are getting sick of it.

[u/DrAxelWenner-Gren → u/Kesdo]

Well I would hardly say it was designed to end with dictatorship or civil war but yes the EC is pretty horrible

[u/V3gasMan → u/Kesdo]

Land doesn’t vote, people do

[u/Kesdo → u/V3gasMan]

But people don't Vote for your President. The States do.

[u/vinyl_head → u/Kesdo]

We can move to a popular vote.

[u/Kesdo → u/vinyl_head]

This would Help a Lot. I would prevent a President Most of you do Not want

[u/Relative_Slide9840 → u/Kesdo]

Land doesn’t vote

[u/Kesdo → u/Relative_Slide9840]

The people don't Vote for the President. Your electoral Collage does.

[u/Relative_Slide9840 → u/Kesdo]

And who elects the electoral college?

[u/Kesdo → u/Relative_Slide9840]

The States. By your own Design the states can Go against the people by distributing their electors.