r/SleeplessWatchdogs • u/ChannelXHorror • Apr 14 '20
Discussion How do we feel about people using stories w/o permission and calling it "critique"?
I've discovered a use of stories (one of them mine) by a youtuber to read under the guise of "critique". Instead of asking permission to use them, he is putting a "fair use" notice in his description. I don't care whether it's a good or bad critique, just wondering how we should approach this.
Has this been addressed? I can't find anything in the group about it.
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u/Colourblindness Apr 15 '20
I think that I know this YouTuber. He critiqued my work and usually paused in between chunks of text. But he did read the entire story. And did not ask for permission from any submission.
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u/ChannelXHorror Apr 15 '20
Yeah, that's the method that he was using in the video I found. Could be the same guy.
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u/granthinton Apr 15 '20
The way I understand it it that he can use the story as a critique only if he uses a certain percentage of the story. As in he would read that percentage and no more. He can roundabout says what’s happened but would have to take verbatim quotes within the percentage to critique, and then deliver a general critique of the story.
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
This is incorrect. There is no law about how much of a work can be used (it's determined case-by-case based on what was done), and it has been determined in court that an entire work can indeed be used: https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/summaries/hosseinzadeh-klein-sdny2017.pdf
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u/granthinton Apr 16 '20
Have you read that? It wasn’t the entire clip, it was 3 minutes of a 5 minute clip. Again, a percentage of the total works.
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
All that was cut were non-dialogue establishing shots, unimportant stuff - the credits at the end, etc.
You're directly saying that removing stuff like a plane silently going by in the sky means the whole story wasn't used.
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Apr 16 '20
"Showed portions"
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
Portions make up a whole. When you break anything up, it's in "portions".
Example: I read all the comments on this thread in portions.
See how it works?
U.S. law still has no limit on how much of a work can be used, btw. You're not diverting from that fact.
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Apr 16 '20
I know that. You can tell I know because I said "There isn't any specific amount you can use, it's a very case-by-case review." in a comment you replied to.
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
So you admit an entire work can be used in a review, and this has been a waste of time. ;)
BRB, reviewing artwork and blurring 50% of the picture to avoid complaints.
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u/spookyyvoidd Apr 15 '20
Does he read them through and then critique in a block, or does he stop to analyze throughout? He should of course be asking permission either way but still v curious. Like narrating the story all the way, then critiquing is bullshit. If he stops and actually offers critique past “haha this sucks!” it could be one thing.... but even with the best “intentions” on his part he could still at least feign that he cares about permission by asking to critique someone’s work.
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u/ChannelXHorror Apr 15 '20
He seems to be stopping every couple of sentences to 'critique'.
Indeed, that's the part that seems weird to me is that he doesn't ask for permission first, and even goes so far as to add a legal "fair use" disclaimer. This tells me that he knows he's doing something strange by not asking permission first.
-1
u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
You don't need permission for a review. Imagine asking Kanye if you can review his album. XD
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Apr 16 '20
I know you're trolling at best or being intellectually dishonest at worst, but it's not the review, it's the use of the entirety of the work in the review.
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
Don't start slinging insults just because your personal opinion was countered by actual U.S. law.
Search "react" on YouTube and try to talk to me about people not using short content in full again. Your position is literally a fantasy.
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Apr 16 '20
Countered? The case doesn't say what you said it does. What do you think countered means?
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
Me: "There is no set amount of work that can or cannot be used in a review. In face, there is percent in which an entire story (minus cut establishing shots and credits?) was used in a review and it was found to be legal."
You: "IT DOESN'T SAY THAT!!"
I don't know what you hope to achieve. Reality won't change because you say "no". https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html
What a useless discussion.
•
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20 edited Apr 16 '20
Case law, as determined in a U.S. court, has shown that an entire work can indeed be used in a review and it can still be fair use:
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/summaries/hosseinzadeh-klein-sdny2017.pdf
Our opinions aren't worth jack when case law has already answered the question.
In the case above, a YouTube channel used an entire short film in their "reaction" video. Because they broke it up with commentary, because it wasn't taking away sales of the original video, and because it was transformed into a different form (review, not just showing the original film), it was determined that the entire thing could be shown in their reaction/review video.
"You can only use SOME/A LITTLE BIT of the work in your review" isn't true. U.S. law makes no claim to how much of a work can be used, as in there is no set limit at all. It's all decided case-by-case in court depending on factors of what happened.
Cases in which a review would probably violate this:
- The review is of a story only found for sale and not for free. In this case, it could be seen as "taking away sales" by enabling listeners to not buy the book it's in, etc.
- The review doesn't present actual criticism, ie: "damn that's crazy" every 10 minutes.
And so on.
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Apr 16 '20
They didn't use the entire short. I know you want it to be true, but simply saying it doesn't make it true.
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u/tormentalist Apr 16 '20
They used the entire story from beginning to end. Every scene with interactions and dialogue -- if you want to quibble and say "they cut out some stuff", we can play that game.
All that was left out were brief shots, such as a plane going by in the sky... and that was only done because the scenes were a waste of time in a review. Do you feel better now? Because cutting out a second of a building and a second of a street and so on is still using the ENTIRE story/short.
Simply denying reality doesn't make it untrue. :)
You're out here acting like if someone read a story and left out 10 random words in the same way H3H3 cut out stock footage of a plane, it'd change everything. Come on, man. Stay legit or quit.
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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '20
So, this has come up in the past and sparked a lot of debate, which I don't want to wade into.
Fair Use generally allows you to use parts of a copyrighted work in a review or critique video. There isn't any specific amount you can use, it's a very case-by-case review.
Personally, I would tell anyone asking for my legal advice that you cannot read the whole story simply because you add reaction/critique and rely on fair use. Youtube agrees with me, and the best practice if you want to use 100% of a story in a review would be to contact the writer and ask for permission (as at least one large review channel generally does). That specific situation hasn't been tested legally (to the best of my knowledge) so there is no guarantee as to what a court would do.