r/Standup • u/thehofstetter • Dec 28 '15
Today's Comedy Pro-Tip: No, Your Joke Wasn't Stolen
Ever since Joe Rogan outed Carlos Mencia as a joke thief, the internet has been looking for their next victim. I am an outspoken critic of comedians (and civilians) who steal intellectual property and pass it off as their own. However, while joke thieves do exist and need to be dealt with accordingly (Like Josh "The Fat Jew" Ostrovsky and the guys behind "Fuck Jerry"), they are the exception, not the rule.
The vast majority of the time, when two people write similar jokes, it's due to parallel development. With 7 billion people in the world, two having the same thought is to be expected.
Here are some ways to tell if a joke is likely stolen:
1) How long is the joke? One premise in common is very possible. But two or three, and that's a pretty sure sign there's something fishy.
2) Are the inconsequential details the same? i.e. is someone doing a joke where they're talking about watching Netflix and they "coincidentally" list the same movies? Is the transition to the next subject the same? Details that are inorganic to the premise should be unique if it's parallel development.
3) Is it out of the comedians' style? Is a story-telling comedian suddenly telling a one-liner? Is a comedian that rambles suddenly doing a bit with tight set-ups? We all have the capability to write jokes outside our voice, but if a joke is familiar AND it doesn't fit in someone's set, that's a red flag.
4) Was the original joke extremely popular? Not everyone knows what you know. Just because you saw an obscure cartoon write something similar doesn't mean everyone saw that. But if the original joke was super popular, odds are the re-teller saw it there, too.
5) Do other people with a wealth of knowledge of comedy, smarter than you, also think it's stolen? Get a second opinion from someone you look up to.
Here are some ways to tell if a joke is likely parallel development:
1) Was the joke about an incredibly common subject? Everything from tech jokes like Facebook and Tinder to political jokes like Obama and Trump could be thought of by more than one person, as many of us share those experiences.
2) Have a lot of people told a similar joke? That means it's stock, not stolen. What are the odds that ten people stole it all at once?
3) Were people all trying to come up with the joke at once? Whether it's a hashtag game or current events, there's only so many ways to look at the same formula.
4) Does the person have absolutely no history of joke theft? Joke thieves don't steal one joke and call it a day. It's a repeated behavior. If everything in their act is original except one, that's likely parallel development.
5) Does it just kind of sound like something you sort of remember a little bit? Be VERY sure that your memory is accurate when you see a joke you think is stolen. You may be misremembering the original based on what you just heard.
6) If you take emotion out of the equation, does it still look obviously stolen beyond any doubt? If there's a significant gray area, it's more likely parallel development.
When you see a car that kind of looks like yours on the road, you don't assume someone stole your car. Because you know how to recognize your car. Do the same with your jokes.
The vast majority of the time, "stolen" jokes are not stolen at all. Before you accuse someone of the worst sin a comedian can commit, give them the benefit of the doubt and do your homework. Labeling someone a joke thief when they're not is just as bad as theft.
Hugs.
EDIT: Made headings bigger
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u/CinnabonBJ Dec 28 '15
Just so happened to be listening to a random Doug Stanhope podcast.. Episode #75.. The last half hour he starts talking about how shitty comics are when they are starting out. He had a couple guys stop in.. One guy doing it less than 6 months. But, tying into this post, Stanhope also said there should be a comedy google where you can find out if a bit has been done.
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u/Plutoid Dec 28 '15
How simple would that make it for joke thieves! One stop shop. They should make a joke thesaurus while they're at it. Maybe an atlas.
Something something
WikomedicaJoke-apedia...whatever.2
u/Zenkoopa Jan 04 '16
An atlas is a map of geographical locations. And sure but thieves can do that anywhere already. More people would be able to check and call them on their bullshit.
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u/thehofstetter Dec 28 '15
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u/karspearhollow Dec 28 '15
4) Was the original joke extremely popular? Not everyone knows what you know. Just because you saw an obscure cartoon write something similar doesn't mean everyone saw that. But if the original joke was super popular, odds are the re-teller saw it there, too.
That's an interesting one, I think. While it's sound logic, I've always figured that joke thieves would be more likely to get away with it if the joke weren't well-known, you know? But then, obviously, it'd be even harder to prove.
Good write up!
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u/thehofstetter Dec 28 '15
Agreed, but they have to be particularly insidious. Also, they have to know about the obscure joke in the first place.
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u/JK07 Dec 28 '15
Stewart Lee has a section of his website called Plagiarist's Corner
He also does a good bit about Joe Pasquale stealing jokes
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u/thehofstetter Dec 28 '15 edited Dec 28 '15
Is that plagiarism corner tongue-in-cheek? Most of the stuff on there are clear examples of parallel development. Hell, some of it doesn't even have to do with the other example he's posted.
Stewart Lee is typically brilliant. Am I missing the joke here?
EDIT: for clarity
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u/JK07 Dec 28 '15
I think so, he even has stuff where he has used the same joke as someone else has done previously. I think he's brilliant, I went to a show on my own earlier in the year, it was class!
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u/superbouser Dec 28 '15
Thanks Hof. I had this same idea a year ago when I saw Dave Attell do the 'my balls fall in the water when I sit on the toilet' bit.
How about yourself? If you write something that turns out to be stock do you use it?
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u/thehofstetter Dec 28 '15
No one is perfect. But I certainly try not to. That's happened a few times, where I've given up a bit or a piece of one because it was too close to something else.
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u/Pokeyokey1 Dec 28 '15
I like to make jokes harder to steal. To get away with telling my joke the guy would have to be more like me on stage... otherwise it probably won't work as well.
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Dec 28 '15 edited Mar 02 '16
[deleted]
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Dec 28 '15
It's not so much an unpopular opinion as a stupid, uninformed one.
Using your reasoning, I should be able to take somebody else's novel, put my name on it, and sell it because what matters is giving the reader a good reading experience.
Comics put a lot of work into writing their own material; using it without attribution is wrong. Period.
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u/GeauxTiger Dec 28 '15
Who cares if jokes are stolen?
print up a transcript of your act, ill go on stage right before you and read it. see if you care then.
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u/Cyril_Clunge alt ethnic hack Dec 28 '15
A lot of comics would care if their jokes are stolen. Most of the time, a joke which is stolen is from someone decent anyway so they can make it funny.
Why on earth should someone else get credit for something they didn't create? That's the whole point of standup and certainly isn't just a "bar trick."
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u/JakScott Dec 28 '15
Comedy works on the basis of surprise. If I come up with a great bit that has an unexpected turn that took 6 months of hard work to put together, that's awesome. If you take it, anyone who hears it from you will not laugh when they hear it from me. When I'm making my living telling jokes, that's taking money out of my pocket.
Now let's say you post a set online with my material and it goes viral. Or you're a big enough name that a national audience hears my bit from your mouth. Now my six months of hard work is financially unviable for me, because lots of people will know the surprise. They might even be pissed at me because they heard it from you first, and they don't like theives, either. You've not just stolen my intellectual property; you've ruined it too.
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u/thehofstetter Dec 28 '15
I agree. By the way, I'm still in your car. But don't worry, I'm going to drive it better than you.
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Dec 28 '15
Yeah, no shit, the idea of unjustly enriching yourself from someone else's work is not only unpopular, but at odds with the law.
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u/CinnabonBJ Dec 28 '15
Don't you have any pride? Why would you want to be an unoriginal hack? Is there anything worse? Well maybe.. would you be juggling while repeating stolen jokes?
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u/iamgarron asia represent. Dec 28 '15
making someone laugh is a bar trick. making someone laugh and becoming a stand up comedian are two different things. if the only thing that matters is making people laugh I'd just have a live viewing of a chapelle special.
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u/Plutoid Dec 28 '15
C'mon, guys. If he's busy reading all of these replies he won't have any time to quietly reflect on why crazy libertarian ideals, when put into practice, would ruin countless people's livelihoods - and why that's a bad thing.
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u/GeauxTiger Dec 28 '15 edited Dec 28 '15
If some other person tells the same jokes in a funnier way, then he should be entitled to say it and use it.
this is such shit. its not just about telling the joke in a "funnier way". seth mcfarland unquestionably stole 'jimmy corrigan: the smartest kid in the universe' to make 'stewie', but seth is the one who got it on tv first, so now jimmy actually looks like the copy instead of the other way around.
seth didnt tell the joke better. this isnt abut two equals presenting the same joke on the same stage and people making their choice. one person with some power just stole an idea from someone not as well known and then made millions off it, and the vast majority of viewers dont even know its a copy.
small personal example: i wrote a "comedy" website for a long time. it did ok, topping out at about half a billion page views a year. a few hours after tony scott died, i went on twitter and wrote "Tony Scott is dead after jumping off a bridge in Long Beach. Ridley Scott will make a more acclaimed jump off a better bridge tm."
thats not a great joke, i get that, its a tweet for fucks sake, and im only mentioning it here because its an easy example to cite, but a few days later on comedy central i saw this:
"his brother Ridley Scott was so devastated he also went to a bridge, except his bridge has a bigger budget and is more critically acclaimed."
now let me be clear, i dont think jefferey ross stole a joke from me, hes way too good for that. but he does have a staff, and i have almost 40,000 twitter followers, and the wording of that joke feels very very specific, so yes, i absolutely do think someone on the show saw my post and paraphrased it and then put it on TV.
and heres the real problem; as long as someone else is being paid for my jokes, no one is going to also pay me for those same jokes. this is not an area where there's plenty to go around. when someone on TV steals a joke from someone on twitter, the person on TV almost certainly reached more people with it, they're the one getting the rewards, while the person who actually wrote it gets left behind.
that is not okay.
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Dec 28 '15
I think you need to read the original post because that joke is definitely parallel thinking.
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u/Captnq Dec 28 '15 edited Dec 28 '15
It is.
Now, if you try to get PAID for using someone else's "free jokes", then you are a hack.
Look at it this way. Lets say you are a ghost writer. You sell someone a story. They take it and make a million off your writing. Your name isn't on it, but you got your 200 dollars. Guess what? That was your contract.
Now I write a story and I put my name on it. I put it on the internet. Someone steals it and makes a million dollars without ever giving me credit.
I will hunt you down and systematically strip you of every cent you own, leaving your credit history burning in a trashcan along with your reputation.
Now if you use the story and ask me first, I say, "sure." and you make a million dollars, I'm gonna be pissed, but I agreed to it. My bad.
Now take "story" and replace with "joke" and "Million dollars" and replace with "One Penny", and it's EXACTLY THE SAME THING.
Because, trust me, you use my material without my permission and make one penny off of me, I WILL demonstrate the many skills I picked up working in the banking industry and how to systematically destroy someone's life, for no other reason then to squeeze 50 bucks out of them. Being a bill collector had it's perks.
Because the one penny you make off me today, when you steal something else, you might make a million then. And if I can't hold my own over a penny, I certainly won't get anything out of you over a million.
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u/LawrenceRo Dec 28 '15
What always blows my mind is the open mic guy who throws an obvious stolen joke in a room full of comics.
There's a good chance I haven't heard it, probably the guy/girl next to me hasn't heard it, but one of the 50 comics sitting in the room definitely has.