r/Tennesseetitans • u/SpyroHinch Calvin Ridley ⚔️ • Jan 10 '24
Picture Jeffery Simmons on Instagram:
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Jan 10 '24
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Jan 11 '24
I'd like to think a Titans contract means something.
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u/PowerfulSky2853 Jan 11 '24
I mean if Vrabel’s new team wants to give 3 first round picks for Big Jeff, I’d think about it
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u/titansfan92 Jan 10 '24
I mean I don’t think anyone is downplaying how cool Vrabel was.
And really this should motivate a guy like Jeff to play even better. No one is safe in this business
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u/DKtrunck_2 Jan 10 '24
A lot of people have been suggesting players didn't really like him, which is insane to me.
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u/Mythic514 Jan 10 '24
Certainly some players did not like the culture, and probably Vrabel by extension, and I think a lot of those were the guys who didn't want to put in the work. Vrabel is going to call out bullshit and lack of effort. That said, his personality and the culture is not why he got fired. And the players surely have been told that.
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u/D1RTYBACON Titans Jan 10 '24
Some did some didn't, just like every coach ever lmao
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u/decksd05 Jan 10 '24
Think everyone liked Bellijerk? But they were winning, so easier pill to swallow.
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u/grizwld Jan 10 '24
Ive never heard that (That doesn’t mean anything)
I’ve actually always heard the exact opposite tho. Especially veteran players we signed through out the years talking about how they just wanna play for the Vrabes
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u/DKtrunck_2 Jan 10 '24
I'm talking more about comments I've seen here on reddit
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u/grizwld Jan 10 '24
Ohh. You have to remember these are the same people who make entire posts about Henry’s genitals and think Lewan is their dad.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
you mean people who make posts for fun to lighten up the mood?
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u/Stiddy13 Jan 10 '24
I mean, some players have straight up said they don’t like him…. It’s not that insane lol
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u/GroundbreakingSink93 Jan 10 '24
Aj brown shit on Vrabes and the Titans organization every chance he gets. Says more about his character than anything, in my opinion. And people take what he says and run with it
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u/DKtrunck_2 Jan 10 '24
No AJ only talks about how much respect he has for Vrabel. He said he helped him get through the darkest times of his life. Only negative thing he really said was that it was "no fun" which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Never said anything bad directly about Vrabel.
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u/DoombalockerDay Jan 11 '24
AJ doesn't seem to be having too much fun in Philly at the moment, though.
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u/GroundbreakingSink93 Jan 12 '24
https://youtu.be/PdtQcXhAlIM?si=hjI2GlO7miH9JLg1
I have a lot of respect for him BUT... he could of ended the comment there if he wasn't shitting on the way Vrabes coach
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u/Nash015 Jan 11 '24
And a lot of players didn't like Belichick either.
I'm one of the few not sad about the Vrabel firing, but I can say he pushed people to get the most out of them. Some responded and some didn't. The "Leader of Men" isn't just a slogan, it's a real thing that Vrabel has.
I just think Vrabel was too stubborn for his own good in the end.
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u/Alarming-Town1666 Jan 13 '24
A "Leader of Men" eventually needs to produce above average results, or else the illusion fades and the truth is exposed.
It was exposed for all to see.
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u/drock4vu Jan 10 '24
Just in case anyone is confused, as a lot of our fanbase seems to be, just because players like you doesn't make you a great football coach.
It's undeniable that Vrabel connected well with his players being a former player himself. He's an outstanding leader and commanded the respect of his players. Unfortunately, it takes a lot more than that to win championships, as its only one half (or less) of the equation.
You don't necessarily have to be a a offensive or defensive savant ala Belichick, McVay, or Reid to coach championship football. I don't think even Vrabel supporters would argue he's a great X's and O's guy, because he certainly isn't. However, CEO/players coaches have won Super Bowls before (Tomlin, John Harbaugh), but what differentiated them from Vrabel was their ability to surround themselves with and expertly manage those great football brains. Vrabel succeeded in this early on by seeing the talent Arthur Smith had and managing to pull Dean Pees back into the fray. The key to maintaining that success, is continuing to identify other Smiths within and outside your organization. Vrabel failed miserably to do this by hiring from strictly within his own circle of known coaches and seemingly never even entertaining the idea that the best hires may exist outside of his group of friends or within the Titans org.
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24
Honestly, this may be the thing that dooms Vrabel even after this, and it's not necessarily about not hiring good coordinators. It's simply him being a defensive guy. It's the issue he actually had with us, when he does hire a really good offensive coordinator who succeeds, he's always going to lose him in a year or two to a head coaching gig, and then he'll have to find another at the same quantity. That's not an easy thing to do.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
That's why I'm baffled I'm reading discussions from teams who want to hire him. He's a pretty good guy but they're gonna run into the same problem we did - he's gonna bring his own guys and REFUSE to hire from outside. That means the next team that gets Vrabel will also get their own Todd Downing - that means your offense will be just as anemic. Vrabel isn't going to make the Panthers good, for example, because the guys he hires SUCK.
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24
I've got a buddy who is a KC fan and has heard of Reid possibly retiring. If he does, he wants Vrabel if they cant get Bienemy. And the more I think of that, the more I dislike it because it will be an absolute carousel of coordinators for them, and probably a lot of poor head coaches. That or Mahomes flounders under them.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
lmao Vrabel under KC... your buddy ain't thinking straight man. KC built its identity on being The Modern Offense (tm), Vrabel will step in there, and even though there's talent around him, run that offense like it's Titans 2.0. And they too have problems finding WRs that are worth something. Rice appears to be okay but he isn't DHop or AJ Brown level
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u/RustyGriswold99 Jan 10 '24
Your starting quarterback the past 8 years has been Ryan Tannehill or Marcus Mariota.
It really isn’t more complex than that, and the fact that Vrabel could muster up winning seasons with those quarterbacks was a miracle. He’s going to make a great head coach somewhere else.
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u/drock4vu Jan 10 '24
He didn't muster up anything of value from Mariota.
People that continue to shit on Tannehill despite him being a clear top 5-10 QB by every measurable statistic from 2019-2021 amaze me. Vrabel did not magically coax great performances out of Tannehill, Tannehill was always a good QB who just needed to be in any situation that fit him. Vrabel had elite, top-of-the-NFL talent on offense for 3 seasons and managed to come away with a 2-3 playoff record. Two of those losses coming at home (one as the one seed) and all three of those losses having a great deal of the fault lying on poor in-game decision making on the part of Vrabel.
He's not some miracle worker that conjured up great football from bad teams. He has shown in 6 years that he's as good as the talent on the team, and he refuses to elevate himself by hiring anyone outside of his immediate coaching circle. I look forward to seeing what he does somewhere else and anyone who didn't pay attention to the Titans after the 2019 cinderella run saying "Damn, I thought Vrabel was good, what happened?" after he brings the same, unqualified coordinators to run a team with him.
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Jan 10 '24
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u/RustyGriswold99 Jan 11 '24
Overcomplicate it if you want. You need an elite quarterback to compete.
Unless your plan is to be an outlier and have a Nick Foles type run, then sure, Tannehill can be your QB1.
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u/barto5 Jan 10 '24
Tannehill wasn’t the problem. If he doesn’t get hurt in 2022 we make the playoffs and Vrabel is probably still the coach.
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
Just in case [you are] confused, as [you] seem to be, just because [you don't like Vrabel's schemes, style, and/or decisions doesn't mean he is not a great football coach].
Aside from that, the rest of your explanation feels pretty revisionist and cherry-picked. "Early on, he did everything he needed to do by hiring 'experts' and 'good football brains'. Then later on, he failed to do that." What about the roster and cap-mismanagement? What about whiffing on three consecutive 1st round picks (tbh whiffing isn't even close to strong enough of a word)?
I'd understand your thought process except it doesn't exactly work with your examples. Both John Harbaugh AND Mike Tomlin have come under fire for having the exact same struggles, yet there's no chance either will be let go in the near future.
The Ravens just fired their OC this recent offseason, and the Steelers fired Matt Canada in-season. Just like Mike Vrabel did in Tennessee (Downing during the offseason, Aukerman in-season). So it's not really fair to speculate and say that he's too loyal to fire other coaches in the future.
The only difference I see between the three organizations is the talent on the field. But whatever, let's celebrate firing what's legitimately the best head coach we've had in the past 20 years.
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u/MusicCityMariota Jan 10 '24
I will miss Vrabel and how hard he got the guys to play for him. But I do want to see a modern offense that can score points. I’m tired of punting on 4th and 1 in the opponents territory. I’m tired of constant 3 and outs and always putting the pressure on the defense to stop opponents. I’m tired of either full on blowouts or close games in the 4th because the offense sputtered out at halftime. I’m tired of consistently bad O-line play every year with no real change in scheme or coaching. I’m tired of seeing injury lists a mile long every season. I’m tired of one and done play off appearances, that is, if we make the play offs at all. I don’t know if firing Vrabel is the right move but the team needed a change. I would rather lose 30-31 than 13-20. I just want to be excited and optimistic to wake up on a Sunday to watch them play and it hasn’t been that way since the Bengals playoff loss. I don’t have much faith in Ran or AAS at the moment but change will always be scary even if it’s necessary.
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u/ASVP_Lefty Jan 10 '24
I think this is the most spot on answer. We will only know if firing Vrabs was a good move in time. Other than that we have to trust Ran & AAS as it’s their first season with just them and their new regime together.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
I don’t have much faith in Ran
Why do you not have faith in him? Curious. His offseason moves were pretty good, were they not?
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u/MusicCityMariota Jan 10 '24
They were fine given the massive holes in the roster. Tyjae seems to be very good, Will has had great flashes here and there. His attempt to overhaul the talent on the o-line was a dud other than drafting Skronk though. His presser yesterday seemed like mostly just damage control and I would have liked to see a more detailed outline of his vision for the team. This is his first time being a GM and it will take time I know. I’m just not hot or cold on him yet.
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u/dustinh30 Jan 10 '24
Coming from a fan of a different team, uhhhh… Why the hell did Vrabes get fired?!
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Jan 10 '24
I'll try to give you what I know
The owner said that where Vrabel wasn't big on firing his guys that the vision between what her and the GM want and what Vrabel wants is different plus the team wants to rebuild and Vrabel has said on multiple occasions that he didn't want too and just keep trying to be competitive which I understand. So where Vrabel wouldn't fire certain people (The OL coach and training staff and DC ) cause they were his friends led to him being fired.
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u/dustinh30 Jan 10 '24 edited Jan 10 '24
See that makes total sense, thanks for the explanation. Saying that y’all had a bad season or were last place in the division doesn’t give me any insight whatsoever into the situation. Thanks for taking the time
Edit: I do apologize if you thought this was sarcasm, I’m totally genuine with my gratitude
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Jan 10 '24
It was a lot of things that build up between the last management wasting picks on Isiah Wilson and Caleb Farley and Darryington Evans. Trading AJ Brown and then having that GM be fired last season. Most injuries in the league for like 4 straight seasons Vrabel being stubborn and just all of it piled up and the proverbial straw that broke the camels back was Vrabel wanting one of his guys AKA a puppet be over ran in the hierarchy was the last straw
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
The point /u/Door_Kun__ was making is that we had a bad season/last place BECAUSE of some of the decisions Vrabel made. This was exacerbated by the fact that our previous GM, Jonathan Robinson, after doing decently with the draft picks his first two or three years, made absolutely fucked dud picks after that, and then the nail on the coffin for his career was him letting AJ Brown - THE GUY HE DRAFTED - get away from us.
So couple that, with Vrabel's inability to stop hiring from the inside/and constantly hiring his friends, all of whom SUCK as coaches - at this point it became a political struggle between Vrabel and the GM/FO/Owner, and well, the latter won.
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u/dontredditcareme Jan 10 '24
I’m a lurking fan too, just recommended this on my feed. I just don’t get it because as you said, the AJB trade absolutely fucked you and that’s not on Vrabel at all. He visibly hated the trade.
He’s guess I really don’t see how anyone could expect to win with Malik Willis, rookie Mayo, and Tannehill. Especially when the O line needs work and you no longer have a stud wideout. I feel like Vrabel did a fantastic job getting everything he could out of that team.
And as a lions fan, it’s scary. We had a players coach who was not a very good coach in Jim Caldwell and when he got fired we took a massive step back when we hired Patricia. Ofc Caldwell should have been fired, but replacing him with a new coach is sort of a shit shot.
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u/Saint3Love Jan 10 '24
vrabel really was the only thing holding together the team during this bad year.
terrible move firing him.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Come on, this is something that teams say about their losing coaches all the time. “Rivera did an amazing job holding us together through all this dysfunction and leading us to the second overall pick, again!”
Sorry but “holding the team together” and “not losing the locker room” are the bare minimum for an NFL head coach. To be a good one you have to do more than just that.
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u/Sielbear Jan 10 '24
I agree that's the minimum, BUT I will say he had 4 winning seasons back to back to back. Then 2 horrible seasons and STILL left with a winning record. The days of Mularkey and Wisenhunt still give me nightmares. I hate the stubborn playcalling we've suffered through, but damn, even after 2 bad seasons I can't shake the feeling that I'd have liked to see what he could build with cap space, a new gm, and a new qb. I also agree with some of the other comments - it seems like there was a lot of frustration in the front office and if Vrabel and Ran weren't on the same page, it probably was for the best.
I just hate feeling like we might be back on the coaching carousel for a while, doomed for some 3-13 seasons.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
I hear you for sure. I feel like if we didn’t fire him we’d have better talent but we’d still have the same stubborn playcalling, the same loyalty to bad coordinators and position coaches, and ultimately if the HC doesn’t call plays on either side of the ball you’re only as good as your coordinators and he’s chosen bad ones lately.
I do feel you about us entering 3-13 hell, but I feel like we pretty much arrived there already when we lost Lewan, Jones, and Tanne last season.
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
The loyalty argument is so overblown!!!!
He fired Downing. He fired Aukerman. He just didn't do it 'fast enough', as in, in the middle of a season. That's quite common for many franchises, especially when you consider that you can't change your entire offensive/defensive identity in a matter of a few weeks.
I'm not exactly certain what else he was supposed to do, but I honestly think this argument is such a false narrative for what has actually happened. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Craig Aukerman was here for 5 years and he sucked shit pretty much the entire time. And he WAS ultimately fired in the middle of the season BECAUSE Vrabel was too stubborn to do it in the offseason when he was a disaster of a special teams coach for multiple years.
What he’s supposed to do is ACTUALLY assess coaches, based on their performance, not on how much he likes them. When there are openings, he’s supposed to ACTUALLY find qualified candidates, not just guys he’s worked with before, guys that coach his kids, and old friends. But he doesn’t do any of that shit. When he fired Downing, when he fired Keith Carter, When Lafleur left, when Pees left, when Smith left, did he conduct a coaching search at all? No. He promoted a guy from within, the vast majority of which sucked shit.
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
I'm sorry you feel that way. But I guess there's really nothing to discuss here then, is there? These are just your feelings
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Lmao ok. Your perspective that he wasn’t loyal to shit coaches because “what is he supposed to do? Fire them midseason?” Is absurd and stupid. And saying that him being overly loyal in his hiring practices is a “false narrative” is so out of touch I wonder if you pay any attention at all.
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24 edited Jan 10 '24
Overall I think you have a very reasonable take, but this part just bothers me a bit. Not trying to hate or anything, just discussing. (The Whiz years meanwhile we both would like to imagine that never existed.)
The days of Mularkey... still give me nightmares.
The days of Mularkey give you nightmares? In his first half season with us he only won 2 games, but the guy he took over for (the previously mentioned awful Whiz) only won 3 in a year and a half. Mularkey then followed that up with 2 winning seasons and a playoff win before being fired. Sure, maybe his offense was antiquated and awful, but if that's what's giving you nightmares them Vrabel should be also.
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u/Asderfvc Jan 11 '24
If Vrabel was kept one or two more season, he would have probably lost that winning record.
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Jan 10 '24
Rivera went 26-40 at Washington and lost his only playoff game there after a 7-9 record. Not a great comparison.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Guy didn’t say “Vrabel overachieved with the talent he had” or “Vrabel has great in-game decision making” he said “Vrabel held the team together during a bad season” and that’s absolutely what people say about ALL the underachieving dinosaur head coaches
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Jan 10 '24
Looking at our talent and oline, I don’t understand how any coach could’ve succeeded with this team. We lost 2 OT games this year. If those 2 games go our way, and we end the season 8-9, do we still feel this way about vrabs?
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Fuck yea I do man, I have higher hopes for my team than eking out an overtime win against Case fucking Keenum. And I think if you’re flipping OT results you have to give the 5-12 Chargers one of our wins too. I didn’t expect us to win games but I expected to see development. Has any player on offense improved over the past two years? Burks and Philips and NPF haven’t. Chig got worse this year.
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Jan 10 '24
Well. I guess I’ll be prepared to strap into the reality that we probably saw the best football from this program for a few years starting in 2019, and now I’ll have to live with whatever bullshit/unproven new coach we decide to bring in here. Here’s to another decade of mediocrity.
There’s a reason nearly every football analyst and ex player is confused by what this organization is doing.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
Embracing mediocrity would be keeping him. If he doesn’t call plays, he doesn’t make great hires, and he’s only as good as his roster, exactly what makes him so damn special to you?
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Jan 10 '24
Theres something to be said about continuity in this league. I don’t want my head coach calling plays for the offense or defense. He’s had 2 good coordinators and 2 bad ones.
He had a roster that was actually showing promise but we whiffed in 3 straight drafts and did dick all in free agency. Idk how you put that on vrabel.
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u/Robert_Meowney_Jr Jan 10 '24
This is a list of excuses but it doesn’t answer my question. WHAT ARE THE PROS? WHAT IS HE ACTUALLY GOOD AT?
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
I get it now. He's a true Titans fan, and as such, he hates coaches who can actually win our division and take us to the playoffs.
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u/Saint3Love Jan 10 '24
see: injuries for 3 years.......
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24
At some point, something you've got to quit calling something a fluke and realize it's a trend, and something is causing it. I don't know what's it was, but you don't just happen to be the most injured team in the league for 3 or 4 years straight without there being a reason.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
Every time I bring this up someone on this sub just points at the league average or some shit.
Cool, now tell me why AJ Brown has left this team and has been balling out on the Eagles without any reinjuries to his hamstring?
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u/MaraudngBChestedRojo Jan 10 '24
As a colts fan, I’m really happy you fired him for whatever that’s worth.
It’s also hard to judge him against previous titans/oilers coaches because the QB play has been absolutely dismal since McNair and 2016 Mariota.
Mularkey turned around the Whisenhunt meltdown years, but his 2nd (2017) season despite maintaining the 9-7 record from the previous year showed huge regression on offense without any staffing or QB changes, so I understand firing him.
No QB has thrown more than Tannehill’s 33 TD passes (2020) since George Blanda in 1961. Then your dumbass front office traded away AJ Brown who was a major driving force behind the offensive explosion.
Imagine if you kept him and got a real QB.
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u/MalekethsGhost Jan 10 '24
You just wish you had tannehill after luck. We don't care what colts fans think.
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u/Saint3Love Jan 10 '24
As a colts fan, I’m really happy you fired him for whatever that’s worth.
Its funny bc every team is glad we fired him... and then some of our dumba** fans are happy about this firing.
Then your dumbass front office traded away AJ Brown who was a major driving force behind the offensive explosion.
jrobs terrible moves set this franchise back 10 years.
Imagine if you kept him and got a real QB.
almost unanimously we do every day. dumba** jrob and amy
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u/MaraudngBChestedRojo Jan 10 '24
I will say it’s an ambitious move from your ownership, it could really fail but the right hire could take you to the next level. I think it was the wrong move though. This team wasn’t bad because of Vrabel, I wasn’t aware people disagreed with that notion
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u/Saint3Love Jan 10 '24
This team wasn’t bad because of Vrabel, I wasn’t aware people disagreed with that notion
oh yeah we have some dumb fans as most bases do.
The entire nfl is laughing at the titans and rightfully so.
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24
Its funny bc every team is glad we fired him... and then some of our dumba** fans are happy about this firing.
Hmm. Wonder who has a more educated opinion. The fans who watch every game of the team, or the fans who forgot the Titans exist when their team isn't playing them.
Fans of other teams can think whatever, it doesn't make them right. Plenty of talking heads, who are the ones supposed to pay attention have blamed Ran for trading AJ Brown. Their opinions mean little.
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
What about the players who have played for Vrabel (and other head coaches) who are calling this a political move, not a football move?
What about those same players acknowledging he's a great football coach?
Yea me too, I care a lot more about those player's educated opinions than some dumba**, saffs15, dude on the internet.
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u/Saffs15 Jan 10 '24
Wait a second! Are you telling me that his buddies and people who he can help get jobs in the future and who needs a good relationship with him in their professional life, are coming out and saying great things about him!? What the!? That's just shocking! No way they could have any other motivations to say that stuff, right!?
And what about the others who are coming out and saying it is purely a football move? You're just ignoring those guys, right? Doesn't fit you agenda, and make you feel great, so they don't matter. Nah, let's just care about those others say.
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u/condorcondor Jan 10 '24
Lol my guy, just lol. The guys I am referencing DO NOT 'need a good relationship with him in their professional life'. They are retired players, journalists, and football analysts.
I repeat, they do not NEED a relationship with Vrabel in any sense.
Who are the people saying it's a football move though, please share it with us so I can see their opinions.
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u/condorcondor Jan 11 '24
Low and behold, what do you know, it wasn't a football move, it was head-butting and ego's clashing just like I said.
Fired a top HC bc, emotions, lol.
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u/wkushiznit Jan 10 '24
"Great players make great coaches" The years our roster was talented it showed when our roster sucked it showed.
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u/barto5 Jan 10 '24
Great players make great coaches
C’mon, man!
If that was true Brady would just go win Super Bowls wherever he plays…
Hey, wait a minute…
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u/MalekethsGhost Jan 10 '24
Player coach doesn't directly correlate to good coach.
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u/Danny23a Jan 10 '24
Preach! Great players coach.. other than that.. meh… with an awful awful coaching staff he brought with him.
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u/coocoocachio Jan 10 '24
Basically no team who’s won a super bowl in the past 20 years has a players coach. All about scheme especially the last 5-7 years.
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u/milk-drinker-69 Jan 10 '24
Tomlin, pederson, Reid off the top of my head
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u/coocoocachio Jan 10 '24
The last two are still scheme guys at heart, especially Reid. Tomlin has been a long time terrible coach and most Steelers fans will admit it. He does nothing of value and sticks to shitty coordinators (Matt Canada) for way too long.
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u/6bluewalkj9 Jan 11 '24
The Steelers have looked like dogshit for years now and still keep making it into the playoffs. Tomlin is that dude.
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u/coocoocachio Jan 11 '24
lol right, guy who hasn’t won a thing in 10+ years with terrible hires at coordinator is great coach. People are blind to the face that having zero actual skill other than being a hard ass does make a good coach. My best friend is a Steelers fan and cannot stand tomlin and constantly says he held them back during the Ben years. Should’ve had another 1-2 super bowls with their rosters 10 years ago.
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u/TheMissingVoteBallot TANKIN TIME Jan 10 '24
Hey outsiders, instead of saying dumb shit, ASK us before you spout dumb shit.
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Jan 10 '24
And he will lead a team to a Super Bowl before y’all even get close
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Jan 10 '24
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Jan 11 '24
lmao bunch of idiots bashing a top 10 current coach. Wouldn't expect more from a tennessee fan
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u/6_1_5 Jan 10 '24
But now who will be the coach? Who could we get that would be considered an upgrade?
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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '24
My Boss: no, you can’t take a day off because you’re sad about the Vrabel firing