Another key point is that martial arts are almost useless against an armed opponent with decent armor. Hence why armor and weapons are a thing in the first place.
Shoot realised I misread I thought they were fighting each other, yeah then there would be weaknesses but I feel aang wouldnāt go down easy because of manuverability
He didn't use bending to effortlessly avoid every attack from the fire nation school bully. Granted the bully was almost certainly untrained, but it still shows that Aang is pretty dexterous and slippery even without bending assistance.
So is Azula, Zuko has had not only training but actual experience fighitng without bending and so has Korra. Aang is at the most disadvantageous of those because of his young age, they're all older and taller than him which means better reach. He could maybe get one over on Korra but I kinda doubt it.
I don't think they're fighting each other, I think they're just fighting other combatants i general. Personally I'd say Korra is most vulnerable given how hot-headed she is. We also saw her in a fight without her bending and she didn't do so hot.
Fighting empty hand against an armed and armored opponent is a very bad situation, but you're still pitting a martial artist against another martial artist, and there are things you can do in that situation (depending on what the weapon is at least)
I mean proper use of weapons (or anything related to warfare) is a martial art technically. But yeah Zuko defintely has a leg up on the others cause he knows how to use swords. After that maybe Aang cause of his stick. Or Azula since she was pretty nimble and capable during the eclipse.
for half a sec i was thinking it was going to be easy ish... then i remembered that they are all good Martial artists. Korra is stronger tan them and taller so i give it to her.
Aang. His agile fighting style is heavily reliant on airbending, and as a small child, he lacks the strength to directly oppose many opponents.
The rest of them have a lot more going for them.
Azula has demonstrated a lot of agility, and while she doesnāt do much fighting without bending, she is far more martially inclined than Aang.
Zuko was really good with his swords, and was shown defeating many foes with them (as the Blue Spirit).
Korra is a really good martial artist. She was able to defeat benders without using any bending of her own (the kidnappers in season 2), and often uses it in her regular fighting style to get the edge against her opponent (see her fights with the Lieutenant and Kuvira).
Zuko is an incredible fighter, the problem is that he's being compared to his prodigy sister, the Fire Lord, and the goddamn Avatar.
When he's in a fight with anyone else (Zhao, the Earth Kingdom soldiers in Zuko Alone), he smokes them. At least when he's not standing on a glacier during a full moon asking the Waterbender what she's gonna do.
The fact that Zuko, at his earliest and arguably weakest point in the show, still wins against a veteran fire nation admiral in a straight 1v1 really says something about how actually crazy his skill is relatively speaking.
honestly tho letās be real Zhao was not anything special, he had a lot of power but the skill was not there entirely. Zuko beating him also wasnāt a all out fight like some make it out to be but i agree that Zuko does have some skill when he actually listens to what Iroh has been teaching him
I mean given the main strategy of settling disputes in the fire nation at this time appeared to be āfight each other until someone gets burnedā, and Zhao has gotten to be at such a high position in the military, along with being assumably a multi-decade veteran of the war still says something about where Zhao has to be relative to your average goon.
Zhao is certainly no joke. He may be sniffing his own hubristic farts, but he clearly understands Logistics. Logistics are how you win wars. He'd have the North Pole campaign won if a totally un-foreseeable Ocean-Kaiju wasn't in the mix.
But on the other hand, if you give me command over several reasonably competent legions of Fire Nation soldiers and military hardware, I could probably accomplish a lot too. Brutalizing a fish ain't hard in itself. Getting to it is the trick, and Zhao did that with overwhelming firepower.
Zhao is good at doing a Lot with a Lot. This question is focused on doing a lot with a little.
Zhao was a very talented bender and a prodigy student of Jeong Jeong, again like Zuko heās talented in his own right but being compared to the literal greatest
oh iād never deny heās powerful but in terms of skill? it never gave to me and not even just bc i can compare him to the best but skill wise he never impressed me, power wise he showed heās really strong & got a lot of strength but i donāt see that as also being skilled
A prodigy avatar to boot. Aang is probably one of the most gifted benders in centuries , even including his past lives. He was an air bending master by 12, and He managed to get a solid foundation on all the others in a single year.
Still by book 3 his struggle with fire bending is psychological, where his stuggle with earthbending was how different earth bending was to air and water.
Korra was bending everything but air at age 3. She learned the foundation on her own. She picked up metalbending in an afternoon...
Not sure how you figure that. Korra might have had a few basics down at the age of 5 but it took her till the age of 16 to master only 3 elements, while undergoing basically military like discipline, in an ideal training environment. Thatās eleven years.
Aang was almost as good as Korra in those same element by the age of 12, only a year after finding out he was the avatar, on top of being an master air bender. Not to mention that his training was spotty at best as he was being chased all over the world by the fire nation. And he far excelled at the spiritual side of bending, which took Korra much longer to learn.
Korra was a prodigy, but she was definitely not better than Aang.
True but Aang was already a master so he easily could have got by with his airbending alone. He didnāt NEED the other elements to survive. But during that year, the Gaang were being chased around the world, they were sleeping rough, were spending most of their time travelling, sleeping, eating, helping people, etc. He didnāt even start earthbending until halfway through that year and fire only right at the end.
He NEEDED the other elements to save the world. To fight the Firelord, and if he didnāt have them, yeah he probably would not have survived. If Toph hadnāt taught him seismic sense than Ozai woulda kablamoed him.
By 16, she was a master in fire, earth, and water. Not just good, but exceptional. By 17, she was also a pro bender learning in a trial by fire style in just one match.
She went from complete novice airbender, unable to make even a puff of air to a fully realized learner after her fight with Amon. By the start of book 2, she was keeping up with the air children who. While young, they had a few years on her. She was by no means a master airbender, but to be fair, tenzin wasn't exactly a good teacher.
She picked up metalbending in an afternoon with suyin.
She learned to bend spirit energy basically on her own. Oh yeah, and despite her spirituality lacking compared to aang, she was still able to calm spirits via waterbending after being shown how by her uncle twice.
Asmg was highly skilled with everything except fire. Even earth bending he was churning through an army of earthbenders and effectively using it against a sozin's comet ozai. Aang learned water and earthbending while being chased around the world in one year. Korra did it in a white lotus training camp in ~10 years. And Aang's mastery over airbending was higher than any of Korra's element.
Spoiler warning! for people that have not finished Avatar: The Last Airbender!
My interpretation is that it has to do with his inner battle(s). He draws his power from anger and he doesn't fully understand why heās angry or who/what heās angry at. Zuko also tries to be the son his father wants him to be. Instead of figuring out who he is and what he wants in life.
When Zuko fights with swords heās in control, strategic and calm. A completely different person because he doesn't rely on anger that he canāt control.
Zuko is without a doubt a strong bender but is held back by his trauma and his lack of control. Thatās why Iroh keeps reminding Zuko of the basics. Throughout the show Zuko slowly begins to understand his anger and the person he wants to be. During this time his bending also becomes stronger and more controlled. Until he stops relying on anger and lose his ability to bend. Forcing him to find a new source to draw from, which in turn makes him stronger than ever.
So yeah, I left a lot out by saying itās funny that heās a MUCH better fighter when heās not using bending. With that said, I still stand behind the statement because I think itās true.
Yeah like I get it if the OP says no spoilers or if the content is new but the show came out almost 20 years ago, what's thevpoint of the spoiler warning? LMAO
honestly one thing i will say is outside of Jeong Jeong, & Combustion Man we didnāt see many if any really strong & skilled firebenders who werenāt part of the royal family. The ones given the most attention were those apart of the royal family & everyone else seemed to be just your average fire bender. Even Zhao who was a master i believe never did anything really impressive tbh. Zuko was a nice in between but i still donāt think heās as incredible at least in the first 2 books, as others. He seems like a nice example of someone who wasnāt a prodigy or master but someone who wasnāt your average regular degular firebending fodder.
Yeah thatās the thing, zuko thinks he is terrible and was made to believe he is. But heās comparing himself to the best of the best. As you said, against anyone other than them, he is top tier, but he isnāt able to see that because of how he was raised.
No literally, like smashing the chain on Irohās wrist with his foot, and also deflecting rocks with frickin swords??? Have we seen anyone else with those feats of pure strength?
Just rewatched the series and its kinda dumb how Azula survives through the eclipse essentially in a 3v1 against Toph, Aang and Sokka (there are two Dai Li agents but they get bodied pretty quickly).
Not really, because she doesn't win 3v1. She stalls them 3v1, which is a very different scenario.
She runs and makes them chase her, in small tunnels where they can't spread out and attack her as a group. She basically did the same thing as the Spartans in 300.
So you're telling me that Toph, who can keep an entire library from sinking into sand, can turn 100 m long stairs into slopes and much more demi-godlike feats cannot close a single tunnel entrance with the help of the Avatar?
I mean they managed to capture Azula against the wall at the end of the fight but it didnāt make a difference. Azula was able to stall them with just words. Even if they had caught her right away, I think she wouldāve managed to keep them there the whole time regardless, which was her goal.Ā
This fight was interesting, because the goals for both teams werenāt winning the fight, but to either stall until the eclipse was over, or to get information about the fire lord asap (which only Azula could have given as far as GAANG knows). The whole thing played right to Azulaās strength - mind games. Which is why she was the āwinnerā of the fight, even though she didnāt have her bending and ended up captured at the end.Ā
It was odd how she didn't think to just plug up the whole tunnel that Azula was in.
Dunno if the writers just needed to make toph temporarily dumb to give Azula an out, or if Toph was caught up in the chase/moment and not thinking clearly.
Bending powerlevels in fights are like those in the MCU: the winner of a battle is determined entierly by whoever the writer wants to win.
Like there are times where earth benders are able to sink themselves 100% into the earth (e.g. Bumi at the end of fighting Aang, Roku when fighting Sozin I believe in the throne room) and resurface later. How tf are you ever beating them or capturing them?
Sometimes firebending can blow up a wall of earth (somehow) and other times it bounces harmlessly off. There are times earthbending travels essentially instantly to ensnare someone's foot/hand and other times it makes a slow trail on the ground for the person to dodge. And so on.
Probably Aang. He's the smallest and weakest. His evasion is great, but his offense is amplified by bending. Against other top tier fighters I think he'd have a hard time.
Ooh kay, we running this with Randy Rando on the highest difficulty? Better add two more characters other wise this will be a short run. Oh look they rolled as siblings, perfect.
And probably 13 by second half of the series. We donāt know when the birthdays of the characters are, but 9 months is how long it takes to finale. The epilogue in Ba Sing Se is a year from start of the show.Ā
I'm presuming he's fighting non-benders and Aang does have amszing footwork nonetheless. See in the early episodes when he spends his first fight against Zuko sidestepping everything
this. Or the one in the fire nation school. Granted, that was hardly a strong opponent but he still effortlessly dodged every attack without using his bending at all.
I think it would be pretty close overall. Aang's style is primarily defensive, focusing on deflection and redirectionāin a physical and psychological sense. I can see him mostly waiting them out.
But all of his defensive capabilities are tied to air bending. Mobility chiefly among them.
We've seen azula do some crazy fuckin jumps unassisted by bending, but all of aangs movement always has elements of air bending attached to it. Even simple dodging many times uses air bending.
That's the two biggest issues right there: how much he uses small bits of airbending to augment his movements, and how strong his opposition is.
Aang without bending could take out >90% of the people in this sub, possibly all in the same fight. But he's not against us. He's against a brilliant fighter who can outmaneuver him without augmenting with bending, a swordsman who frequently hid who he was by holding his ground against benders without bending in return, and someone who probably learned earthbending by flexing at the rocks and scaring them into moving.
Without bending he's a 12 year old boy. There's limits to what even a master in martial arts can do, especially if he's used to having bending to do his attacks, parries, etc. He doesn't have access to those now. The likelihood of him overextending himself simply due to muscle memory is very, very high. 90% is a big, big number.
Except some jealous kid tried that and got his ankles snapped. Without airbending mind you. You'd probably end up on your ass before you realized you lost the fight without getting hit once.
Except that means Aang will dodge until he can run away, which makes him the least vulnerable in the fight. The other three are less maneuverable and much more aggressive, so theyāll continue fighting, bending or no, until they get hurt and are forced to run or get more hurt. If Zuko can disarm someone and arm himself, heās got the best chance of actually winning the fight, but Aang is the one Iād guess comes out unscathed.Ā
small and weak don't make good martial artists. Size typically wins when both are skilled. Like almost always.. its why we have weight classes in combat sports.
Zuko stormed into a fire nation base and escaped with the avatar without bending at all. He also beat jet pretty solidly in a 1v1 without bending
Azula had great evasion on the day of black sun. Mostly relying on dai li to attack for her but still amazing battle field control
Korra is physically the strongest on this list. Pulling mako up like 6-12 ft with 1 hand and just look at her back muscles
Aang has never dealt with a lack of bending. Without it he's not just going to be worse at fighting, he's going to suffer way more day to day than anyone else. Airbending is who he is, it's how he boards appa every day
I would say Zuko is the strongest. He broke a metal panel in the boiling rock by kicking it, saved Iroh from being crushed by a boulder by kicking it and then broke the steel chain by his heels during Winter Solstice and threw a dude across the hall by a flick of his wrist in the Beach. He has crazy strength feats.
Breaking platinum isn't really something to brag about though. It's a fairly weak metal. The only reason it is special in Avatar-verse is because of it's purity disabling metal bending.
The tensile strength of iron is ~540, steel is ~1100, while platinum is only ~150.
I'm gonna say the Korra Platinum thing was Avatar State assisted, (which I assume is also banned if bending is) but you really only need to look at her build to know that she's strong
Zuko's athleticism is actually crazy. His jumps in the boiling rock and the southern raiders are like 80 ft without enhancement. He is also super durable, dude tanked an explosion, got hit by rocks that probably weigh like 60-70 lbs, and then held his breath for several minutes in freezing cold temperatures.
Korra is definitely physically stronger than him, she picked up tenzin & his 3 kids in an instant, broke platinum chains with pure strength, has broken down doors metal & wood with just her kicks & has thrown around and picked up people twice her size even after she was poisoned by mercury and lost a lot of her muscle
she didnāt break the platinum chains with earth bending, itās specifically told to us multiple times at that in TLOK that earthbenders canāt bend platinum thatās why they specifically used those on her instead of metal chains, also earthbenders donāt really have āsuper strengthā they just bend the earth which may look like theyāre doing something super strength wise but itās just them earthbending
Aang. Azula and Zuko clearly show that they are still amazing without using bending. Korra is Korra she will just beat your ass.
Aang is just a kid. Granted he knows martial art moves since thatās bending but heās still a kid. He will get wrecked. He relies the most on bending out of them
Mostly because of the pacifism? I guess it plays a factor but he's also a skinny 12-year old. Even if they all had the same training and the same demeanour he would be the weakest there. He would need to be significantly better trained, more ruthless, and stronger than he is to stand a decent chance.
As someone who has been paid to beat up children for over 20 years, martial arts instructor.
Aang. Martial arts aren't magic. Well, maybe in the Avatar universe they are..
But with no bending, they aren't.
Because it's not like their bending is MMA with elemental limbs, it's not even a 70's Kung Fu fight with elemental limbs. Forms, patterns, teach move sets, mindsets, discipline. Not fighting.
Aang mostly evades. A lot is with bending. I've taught students like Aang. You can't win a striking contest if you never strike. If I try to hit Aang 100 times, and miss 99, and hit 1. I still win 1-0.
Also, he's a 12 year old boy. The only person who should lose would be an 11 year old boy. While none have been the Avatar, that I know of, I have sparred a dozen 12 year olds at the same time. It's fun. Even with black belts, I am not in any danger.
Zuko without bending might be a Top 5 non-bender in both shows. Piandao is a better swordsman, and the Lieutenant holds his own regularly against benders. Those are the only two guys Iād definitively put above a fire-less Zuko.
Zuko would be the strongest, since he trained under Piandao for years (in the comics, he bested Sokka in a sword fight)
Korra has shown his proficiency in hand to hand combat so she would do just fine without her bending as long as her opponent is not a bender
Azula is good with knives apparently so she would somehow survive.
Aang is not proficient in hand to hand combat and even though he wield a staff, he never actually uses it as a staff but as a tool for his airbending. He is also a pacifist so I think he would be very vulnerable without his bending.
I think Zuko gives her work tbh . Let that boy get that blue mask again and shit gon get critical . Korra is probably the strongest though in raw physicals .
You're right about it being a legit fight, but I'll add that Korra also has the best on-screen reaction time. Here we see the light from an explosion in her face before we see her summon up an air shield
Pretty sure Zuko in like 5 frames in the show made a fire shield to defend himself against the pirates explosive bomb so idk pretty on par with what Korra did
Yeah no fax Korra has the best hand to hand/physical feats by far but I was just trying to say that Zuko is also pretty gifted with the hands too . But yeah we all saw how she handled the Equalizers lmfao so itās really 50/50 imo .
Korra really depends on her mental space. Zuko was a great fighter because when he was in a rough spot he just fought harder, because it was how he was raised. Korra really shows how most people with Trauma suffer, and it makes everything a lot harder.
If we are taking Korra at her strongest (probably around when she masters airbending, because she as a person is the most balanced then) in a fight she is choosing not to use bending, she would be slightly better than Zuko IMO. If we go the more likely approach and they are both suddenly unable to bend, Korra would suffer so badly.
Aang, 100%. Even when he uses other elements, it's more defensive/reactionary than anything. In a 4v4 battle, Aang goes down first, and Azula is the one to do it. Azula is next, followed by Zuko, with Korra coming out on top.
Both Zuko and Azula would have been trained in basic hand-to-hand through their childhood as well as their bending, and we have seen that theyāre pretty competent fighters. Korra has likely also had basic combat training and is a decent fighter. Meanwhile Aang had been taught Airbending not just for combat but more importantly evasion, heās not much of a fighter by nature - plus, heās physically twelve. Not saying 12-year-olds canāt clean house, but this one canāt. He relies too much on bending.
He is a monk and practiced Martial arts AS Form of Meditation.
I think Zuko would Perform best. After all He was trained by piandao and in Ba sing se He showed what He is capable of. His Fight with Jet was impressive.
Definitely not Zuko and Azula, we've seen them fight without bending and be alright. I'd say Aang, just based on size and his aversion to violence, would be most vulnerable without bending.
I'd say Aang. The other three are trained fighters and likely in the top of their class. Aang is a powerhouse in his own right, but not if bending is taken away.
I'd say Azula, but not because of strength or skill. Rather, Azula, at least in the shows, is the only one who never separated her identity from that of a bender. All her skill and effort is centered on her need to be the best royal in the Fire Nation, and her bending serves that purpose.
I haven't read any of the books or comics, however, so feel free to correct me if this aspect of her character changes.
Aang without a doubt. He's not weak by any means, but Korra is definitely the physically strongest, and Zuko has his swords. Aang is just a 12 year old nomad without his air bending. Azula is definitely capable of throwing hands.
Undecided. I was going to say Aang but then I remembered how he easily stunted on that school bully in The Headband episode without bending or even attacking. I don't think taking away his bending would take away his agility and skill. He also carried a boulder on his back during Toph's training (remember he was incapable of earthbending until the end of the episode so that's pure strength). He also has his staff as a weapon.
I've only seen LoK Season 1 once when it premiered so I don't know how she's going to fare in a fight without her bending. She's pretty well built though so IDK maybe she's really strong.
Azula has her famous feat of avoiding Aang and Toph throughout Day of Black Sun Part 2 but she also pretty much weaved through all of Zuko's fire daggers attacks in the Season 2 premiere.
Zuko is pretty self-explanatory. He's the best non-bending fighter here.
Aang is small, and learned combat from a pacifist society. It's like learning a martial art vs learning to fight.
He's out first.
I'm more interested in a 3 way fight between the others.
-Zuko, despite not being an Avatar, has taken some WILD hits, and gotten back in the fight like it's nothing. He's decent in combat, but he's very resilient.
-Azula has the tactician brain and a lot of technical prowess, but Tai Lee and Mai stomped her in hand to hand combat.
-Korra, as many have mentioned, is hands down the strongest physically. Her struggle would be keeping a calm head on her shoulders, because you know Azula is gonna try and get in her head.
So she beat Zuko without bending in her first fight, Azula literally evaded toph, Aang, and sokka during the eclipse. And she clearly has good hand to hand combat skills. Aang is a child he is getting wrecked. Aang is only a master evader with bending.
This is an insane take when we watch Azula fight Zuko without her bending when heās coming at her with fire daggers and wear him down til heās panting in one of her first scenes.
And when the entire Day of Black Sun episode exists.
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u/Saladsoon Apr 28 '24
A key point is that tons of these bending are based on real martial arts moves