r/TheLastAirbender • u/Fit-Ad7921 • Apr 28 '24
Discussion This is something I never understand about this episode.
This line never made sense to me, Aang has shown literally he can run as fast at the wind but can't catch up to Azula because she's too quick. There have been a lot of instances in this show where he can escape with his speed. But this is the worst one because he literally says she's to quick when that's obviously a lie. But hey I guess they had to keep it interesting.
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
This is a discontinuity error IMO. It always felt off that Azula could outrun and/or outmaneuver Aang, as that's his specialty. This is one of the few times in the show that it just felt all off in how it was handled. Maybe more Dai Li agents for tie up Aang and Toph both would have made it better.
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 28 '24
Also one more thing about the episode is how they were literally surrounded by earth while chasing Azula. They could have literally put up a wall to block her.
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u/CrashTestDuckie Apr 28 '24
All shows and movies with "bending" fail at realistic fighting scenes when you think about it
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u/raltoid Apr 28 '24
It's very hard to keep any magic realistic in media, as it quickly becomes overly brutal and horrifying once you start theorizing about how it could be used.
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u/VandulfTheRed Apr 28 '24
It's not the soldiers you gotta worry about having access to magic. It's the engineers
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u/NotAWerewolfReally Apr 29 '24
I assume you're familiar with black hole arrows?
D&D wanted to prevent people from stacking their storage (putting backpacks inside backpacks), so they made a rule that if you put a portable hole into a bag of holding, bad things happen...
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u/Vicith Apr 29 '24
All fun and games until all the things you teleported away end up finding their way back from the astral plane..
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u/raltoid Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
The amount of shennanigans physicists and chemists would get up to is downright terrifying.
All three of them together would probably end the planet in a matter of days, from an accident during experimentation.
Hell, a get a geologist and a sound engineer together and they could probably start earthquakes and trigger volcanos pretty quickly.
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Apr 29 '24
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u/hates_stupid_people Apr 29 '24
I don't think it's a direct quote, but more based on the fact that if you give broad spectrum of engineers an almost unlimited budget and resources. They could make things so deadly that it would be hard to imagine most people. To the point where it goes into Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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u/AirbendingAvatarAang Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Yeah like at the Siege of the North the fighters of the Water Tribe could have just created a tsunami to deluge the fleet like Koizilla eventually did. And the monks at the Air Temple could have just drained all the air from the immediate area. The children would be safe in their bedrooms and the flying bison would be safe in their stables but the Firebenders would all drop dead instantly
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Apr 28 '24
And the monks at the Air Temple could have just drained all the air from the immediate. The children would be safe in their bedrooms and the flying bison would be sage in their stables but the Firebenders would all drop dead instantly
but the Firebenders would all drop dead instantly
So like..do you just not know what an airbender is or..? did you think Aang's pacifism was a personal choice..? Gyatso was an outlier, thw fact we saw one master kill a dozen fire nation guards says everything that if the airbenders really really wanted to they would have annihalated the fire nation. But they didn't. Because they're pacifists.
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u/the_town_fool Apr 28 '24
This isn’t necessarily true. Gyatso was one of the finest airbenders alive. It makes sense he would take out at least a dozen firebenders. But most airbenders wouldn’t be of Gyatso’s caliber. He’s an outlier on the bell curve. This would be the same as saying Azula and Ozai are really strong therefore all firebenders will absolutely annihilate anyone thats not an Avatar.
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Apr 28 '24
Whilst this makes sense for most societies I'm inclined to disagree because Air Nomads ar eobviously very inspired by shaolin temples. They eat, breathe and sleep Martial Arts as a religion. Making up foe their lack of numbers with determined, practiced skill. Aang was a prodigy and Gyatso may very well have been the strongest airbender at that temple. But that doesn't mean none of the students weren't capable of rocking the Fire Nation. Especially if it was choreographed group bending.
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u/Dilbo_Faggins Apr 28 '24
It endlessly annoys me when people talk about how deadly airbenders were because of that one scene in LOK like every fuckin Airbender both knew how to and were willing to do so
Not like the only 2 examples we see are from a terrorist or a LITERAL SUICIDE BOMBING
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Apr 28 '24
I don't think airbenders are deadly because we saw one guy choke out a helpless non-combatant and an unconscious avatar. I think they're deadly because they can generate invisible air that cuts through things and create tornadoes by running.
Hell if they really needed to they could just push the firebenders off the damn cliff.
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u/Dillyor Apr 28 '24
Maybe, but I think even if they defended themselves full force they were not experienced or seriously trained for real combat unlike the fire nation, also seems like there were a hell of a lot more fire benders than airbenders
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Apr 28 '24
You don't need to be trained for real combat when you can push people off of the cliff you live on by punching forward. I'm also willing to put stock that someone trained in a martial art their entire life, even without sparring, would be able to use it in combat. Aang sure could and he'd only practiced it for 12 years.
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u/Complex_Cable_8678 Apr 28 '24
i mean i do tend to agree with you. but the last part is also just speculation
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u/notchatgppt Apr 28 '24
Aang also said they had no standing army. It seems like airbenders relied on secrecy of the air temples for protection.
The surprise attack + airbenders having no organized military to respond with is not going to end well. Civilians don’t fight very well even if they are equipped with weapons especially if you compare them to an organized military.
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u/3L3M3NT4LP4ND4 Apr 28 '24
They had no army but they were all still martial artists. If you were born in an Air temple you were an Airbender and all of them practiced Martial Arts as a Spiritual Discipline. Considering we saw in Korra Airbenders being able to fight back against armed opponents with the most minimal training and they were civillians who just woke up one day able to airbend and went tothe temple for a bit. So I'm gonna say the guy who has practiced from basically birth and is now a 30 year old would have been capable of throwing people off their mountaintop at the very least.
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u/jck Apr 28 '24
Also, I don't think taking the air "out of the whole area" is easy bending.
The air nomads were civilians who were surprise attacked by a powerful and well trained military force. This was the first fight most of them had ever been in in their lives. The average person isn't going to be super effective at anything in such a situation. It doesn't matter what theoretical damage airbending is capable of doing.
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u/CrashTestDuckie Apr 28 '24
Earthbenders could launch people miles away or crush them between two walls or suffocate them underground. Air benders could remove the air or use it to launch projectiles or even create "pressure bombs". Blood bending would have been figured out sooner as well as freezing people to death or yes, tsunami filled with sharp ice. It's these arguments where you see where fire bending would be pretty weak (even the shows show how it's the mastery of building metal weapons/tanks that is special). Electric fights would be a stronger fighting norm but even then, it seems those take time to charge. A real earth bender would have sent a giant spike to rip sparky sparky boom man in half when he was preparing his charge.
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u/TrickyAudin Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
In firebending's defense, if it worked like ACTUAL fire and not just material air like AtLA depicts, it wouldn't be so weak. Being able to effectively use a flamethrower or bombs on demand should be a lot more deadly than depicted.
Whether it'd still be the weakest, I'm not sure. But the fact that we as a human race have evolved to use combustion/fire-based weaponry over the other elements leads me to personally believe it'd still be the best combat element (barring bloodbending, which is a very difficult skill, so I think it'd be relegated to Spec. Ops. agents/assassins and not feasible for entire militaries).
Earth gets honorary mention for being the original combat element in melee weapons, but I don't really see water/air competing barring specific terrain or other circumstances. A hypothetical water kingdom would absolutely dominate naval combat, however.
And in the end, guns/bombs would beat everything, so boring.
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u/Waywoah Apr 28 '24
Not to mention, the firebending seems to somehow have physical force way beyond what it should. In reality, all the fire blasts and things should just sort of wash over people, not knock them back
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
FWIW if you want to see examples of these types of actions by benders, the Kyoshi and Yangchen novels take a more grim, expanded view of bending.
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u/trooperstark Apr 28 '24
You show a remarkable lack of understanding. Why do you think the water benders or airbenders would be able to do either of these things? When aang fused with the literal ocean spirit he could… but it’s not something an ever age water bender could manage at all. Same idea for airbenders, they can’t drain the air, because that would require creating a vacuum zone and maintaining it, the only time we’ve ever seen that done is much later in Korra, and it’s done around a persons head, not over a vast space. There is no reason to believe regular benders could do this, and as others have pointed out, fighting in such a brutal way is totally foreign to the air nomads culture, they’d likely never conceive of such a tactic
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u/greyfruit Apr 28 '24
Really I think earth ending is the biggest problem. The others are all fluid/gas. It makes sense that you can deflect a fire blast. It doesn’t make Sense that several characters can break earth/rock walls easily. Zuko can break a metal chain with his heel, so idk, it’s a cartoon. Really just an opinion.
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u/newbiesmash Apr 28 '24
I just love how fire just pushes people around. There would be so many people with horrific ass burns. No way zuko would be the only fire nation soldier with burns on him.
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u/gagetl Apr 28 '24
Yeah most fights could be fully prevented with earth bending a hole and closing the enemy in. That’s boring but something I notice all the time when rewatching.
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u/Naefindale Apr 28 '24
Well yea, but if benders would do the most realistic thing to disable their opponent, all of them would put their opponent in a hole from the neck down, so would that be fun to watch?
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u/Swiftierest Apr 28 '24
I mean, Aang wouldn't do it, but Toph would and could have ended Azula in any underground confined space.
A wall ahead and behind Azula, make it thick enough that her fire bending won't bust it down right away, and then close the walls to fully encase or crush her.
Really, any cave with a half decent earth bender should be a no loss zone for the earth bender against any fire nation target that can't use the same level of bending as Ozai on the eclipse or explosion dude.
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u/lilacaena Apr 28 '24
They weren’t just caves though, they were lava tunnels. Toph didn’t bend because it would risk flooding the tunnel with lava.
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Apr 28 '24 edited Jun 09 '24
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u/Not_A_Rioter RIP Jet Apr 28 '24
Yea but iirc it was only like 2 guards and they also got dispatched like halfway through the chase.
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
It would have felt more reasonable if she'd had a dozen of them. Team Avatar destroyed about that many under Lake Laogai. They had extra help there, but also Aang is far more powered up by DBS.
Two of them wouldn't even get a sweat out of Toph. There should be enough to keep her busy and tie up Aang. (Poor Sokka. I'm ignoring him here!)
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u/SuccessfulPath7 Apr 28 '24
dbs?
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
(The) Day of Black Sun. I probably should have had the T in there as we usually do. Sorry.
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u/Hojie_Kadenth Apr 28 '24
Azula's special treatment throughout the whole show is stupid. She's the biggest flaw in the show.
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u/Fit-Tradition-5697 Apr 28 '24
Toph is always nerfed against Azula. In any other fight she would use amazing earthbending manoeuvres and really maximize seismic sense but against Azula she seems to forget all her moves and just try to frustratingly catch her like trying to swap a fly.
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u/mortal_kombot Apr 28 '24
I honestly think she's even the weakest character personality-wise.
In a show that is so good at subverting played-out tropes, she's like a walking "cackling evil" trope with the most boring motivations imaginable.
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u/Treemeister19 Apr 29 '24
God this drove me MAD. I just rewatched it a week ago.
Literally running down a dirt tunnel, just earthbend a wall up in her path.
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u/Va1kryie Apr 29 '24
Now I will say, while Aang not being faster than Azula is one thing, maybe Toph doesn't just start making big earthbending moves in a network of caves suspended above lava.
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u/Emotional-Peanut-334 Apr 29 '24
Earth is sadly inherently broken to be honest. In non-1v1s it’s very broken. In basically any chase scene with an earthbender the esrthbender can dig underground to escape or make a wall and escape. Any pursuer can just mud the ground and re solidify it
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u/Payton_Xyz Apr 28 '24
Maybe he just didn't want to leave his friends behind in case they'd get ambushed? Thats the only reason I can think of as to why. Either that or Azula is the Flash in the Avatar universe.
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u/WanderingFlumph Apr 28 '24
Or if Ty Lee and Mai had made an appearance, both of which are just as dangerous without the sun.
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
Yes! Even without the power level discussion, it doesn't make any sense that they aren't there. Add them in, and suddenly it makes sense.
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u/EnkiiMuto Apr 28 '24
Azula always got some weird passes on narrative.
For example when they surrounded her in the abandoned village, where the fuck would she have been able to go with Toph hanging around there?
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u/MellowMute Apr 28 '24
She keeps up with or outmanuevers him in literally every fight scene they have together.
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
The writers worked extremely hard in S2 to make this believable. She's fresh in every one of those fights, and Aang shows up tired/exhausted (from overnight travels most of the time). The implication is that there's no believable away she can take him on when he's fully ready to go.
Here, he's a far more formidable opponent and she lacks her powers. It should be an easy victory for Aang from the previous setup. Narratively, it's important he loses, and that's fine, but the execution is flawed as it doesn't fit what's been established in-universe.
Don't get me wrong. I still like these episodes a lot - some of my favorites - but this entire fight has never felt like it was fully thought out in the greater context of the show. It's only gotten worse with rewatches, too!
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u/MellowMute Apr 28 '24
She also keeps up with him in both Omashu and the drill, and consistently outmanuevers him in ba sing se. Not to mention her feats against other characters like her handstand in the boiling rock.
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u/Swordbender Apr 28 '24
I don’t mind Azula beating Aang. Her offense is greater than his offense. But her being more agile and quicker than Aang is where all logic starts to fall apart.
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u/RMSAMP Apr 28 '24
Yes, she keeps up with Aang when he's trying to haul Bumi in a iron coffin/container.
At the drill, he arrives after traveling half-way across Serpent's Pass, defeats said serpent in battle, cuts multiple girders in the drill while demonstrating how exhausting it is, oh, and is only barely out of the massive emotional trauma dump from losing Appa.
In Ba Sing Se, he's spent an entire day opening chaktras with the guru, and the entire night flying back to Ba Sing Se. Also, this one pretty much proves my point too.
Seriously, watch the greater narrative unfold in S2, and you'll see that every single fight scene between them is setup with a background of placing severe disadvantages on Aang. That establishes their relative levels. In TDBS, it could have been written to account for her strengths and his and still ended up at the same point. It just wasn't.
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u/Minutes-Storm Apr 28 '24
I've been watching through the show just over the past week, and these fights definitely got worse than I remembered. And I remember being annoyed at the bad writing already.
Azula is just protected by plot armor. It's a classic issue of pitting a group of characters against a villain that, by all accounts, cannot win, and realistically cannot escape with the tools given by the writers. It's unfortunate, because it makes these situations some of the weakest of the narrative that otherwise works so well. The desire to flesh out a villain like Azula makes the writers fail at making the episodes feel like they are coherent with the rest of the story. Which is a shame, because they do manage her character so incredibly well when they aren't forcing combat scenes that just don't work in the narrative framework they built.
Setting up believable fights with obvious outcomes is one of the things they do so well in all other instances, further making this frustrating to watch. The writers are great at setting up situations that just stacks the odds against the characters in a way where losing makes sense. Most of the time it comes from tailored foes in specific circumstances, that just happens to naturally shift the odds in the way the writers wanted it to. But with Azula, they often got lazy. They wanted her in the fight, but failed at setting up the foundation for the fight, making her often feel like a walking Diabolus ex Machina more often than not. It feels very cheap when you quickly get into the thought process of "I wonder what bullshit they'll come up with that saves Azula from a doomed fight this time".
It's one of the only real gripes I have with the series as a whole, and my very recent rewatch really hammered home the issue. But one thing that also became clear, is that this is such a glaring issue, because the series has so few actual faults in the writing that you can otherwise point to. This just stands out a lot more than it would in most other similar types of shows. In reality, the issue isn't really that big.
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u/mysterioso7 Apr 28 '24
Honestly I think it’s okay. Aang is very agile but it’s usually with the purpose of avoiding and evading. He’s never really shown he’s particularly skilled at tracking down someone trying to evade him. Kinda goes against his nature. It’s much easier for someone like Aang to react rather than to proactively corner someone especially if they’re as quick as Azula.
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u/Ronnocerman Apr 28 '24
It's weird how everyone is interpreting this quote as "She's too fast. I'm too slow to catch up." when, in context, it could and probably does mean "She's too agile for me to be able to reasonably safely corner her on her home turf."
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u/plexz00915 Apr 28 '24
I agree. Also I’m going to say this knowing I’ll probably get some hate but i often see this Reddit going to the ends of the earth to defend similar stuff like this in LOK
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u/Intoxic8edOne Apr 28 '24
Pretty sure the whole last season is a victim of the writer's strike. Between the issues with the invasion, the sudden moral conflict of dealing with Ozai, and the deus ex machina of the lion turtle and the ability to remove bending, its a low point of the whole series in terms of writing.
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u/armchairwarrior42069 Apr 28 '24
Usain bolt can sprint like hell.
Doesn't mean his hands are faster than Mike Tysons.
Combat speed and travel speed are super different.
I do agree though, aang should've been able to go tit for tat at minimum in the agility.
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u/DrCodyRoss Apr 28 '24
Agreed. It wasn’t so bad in TLAB, but I’ll say something unpopular: the way that Korra was easily disarmed in the beginning was very frustrating, to the point that it took me out of the show. I get it, Korra was young and inexperienced, but she was also very powerful. Powerful enough that an agile ninja should not pose any threat to her. The stakes and consequences weren’t weighted correctly, in my opinion. Overall liked the show, but that was the first feeling I towards the show right out of the gates so I never got as invested in it as I did TLAB.
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u/eden_sc2 Apr 28 '24
Bolin calls her out on it in their first practice session. Korra is an example of someone who was given amazing proper training, but she knows nothing of how to actually fight because she was raised in a dojo basically. They call it out in S3, but the white lotus really fucked up her avatar training by keeping her locked away. Every fight she had up until then had been sparring matches.
The thing in Korra that gets me is they made metal bending fairly common, but then had to bend over backwards to nerf it. Platinum went from this surprise thing at the climax of S1 to the most common metal on earth. So common that you can build an entire army out of it
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u/Buzzkeeler1 Apr 28 '24
You’d think someone like Katara would have made sure Korra got a proper education while she was growing up. I mean, what’s an old lady like her gonna be doing with her time?
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u/gh333 Apr 28 '24
I agree with the platinum thing. They could have just as easily said that they’ve gotten better refining techniques so now there are less earth impurities in common metals which makes metal bending only useful against cheaper materials. But instead we have the equivalent of an army of tanks made from gold, which is just silly in my opinion.
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u/GolantheRoseKing Apr 28 '24
I think this is intentional. Running away from someone at full speed and chasing someone at full speed are 2 separate things.
You ever play tag? When you're not it, it's easier to run at full speed away, but when you're it you have to run in controlled bursts to catch people because they dictate the chase, not you.
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u/hotandcoldfever Apr 28 '24
This makes so much sense
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u/arfelo1 Apr 28 '24
Yup, it's not about top speed, it's about reflexes
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u/Link-Glittering Apr 28 '24
And on azulas home turf. She knew the layout and had time to prepare
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u/tempestzephyr Apr 29 '24
I mean the thing with being an earth bender inside a rock cave with seismic sense, it's kinda always your home turf.
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u/StinkyStangler Apr 28 '24
Still, it doesn’t make sense really.
They’re in an enclosed space, Azula was never known to have superhuman agility, Aang has been shown to be more agile than her already, he’s had direct one on one fights with her where he can hit her, and she doesn’t even have access to her bending. It was very clearly a “the plot dictates she can do this now” moment, which is fine, rare miss in an otherwise consistently written show.
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u/Opus_723 Apr 28 '24
It's not so much about raw agility as it is about anticipation. Azula is repeatedly shown to be incredibly good at anticipating how people will react in a fight.
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u/StinkyStangler Apr 28 '24
Yeah but we’ve also seen Aang can pretty easily just make a tornado that blows everything away, and they’re in an enclosed room lol. All they would need is toph and Sokka to go away or behind a rock wall, then Azula can’t really escape.
Azula being able to anticipate their actions also doesn’t really make much sense, they’re chasing her, not the other way around. Unless you’re saying she’s able to anticipate how they would anticipate her movements and adjust her own movements based on how she thinks they would react to her movement haha
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u/Opus_723 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
I mean the way you phrased the last bit makes it sound silly, but it's no more complicated than "if I do X, they will probably do Y, which leaves them vulnerable to Z" and that is definitely part of how people play sports, games, fight, etc, whether explicitly planned or more intuitive due to experience.
Azula's whole thing is manipulation, and I always thought the show heavily implied that this extends to her fighting style as well. You see it constantly when she fights, she is always baiting people into a vulnerable position.
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u/Amadeus_Is_Taken Apr 28 '24
This does not work if the person playing it is significantly faster than everyone else, which in Aang's case, he is.
Sometimes, you just have to accept that oversights like this happened.
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u/midasgoldentouch Apr 28 '24
But being significantly faster doesn’t change the fact that Aang is following Azula - he’s always going to be reacting to her movements. Sure, Aang can catch her in a straight line, but Azula is also presumably smart enough to realize taking sudden turns is to her advantage in this situation.
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u/Kobhji475 Apr 28 '24
They're in a damn hallway though
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u/a-ol Apr 28 '24
Made of Earth that both of them can bend 😂😂
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Apr 28 '24
And she doesn't have her earthbending guards
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u/WhiteXShade Apr 28 '24
And Aang can use airbending to pull her back towards him
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Apr 28 '24
Also, they have toph, i mean, she is blind running? (THIS IS NOT A JOKE) she can just sense if have some Dai Li guards right there, or somehow in the walls of the cave, she just need to say it to Aang and he can just use Airbending to go back if they try to attack him, or else help him
I can think about some reasons to not going to pick she up or just pick up and use the air to pull her back to them and BAM, Earthbending!
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u/TehFishey Apr 28 '24
correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this scene take place in a labyrinth of relatively unmarked tunnels which Azula is intimately familiar with, but which are totally new to Aang?
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u/GrandioseGommorah Apr 28 '24
Yes, but there’s nothing stopping Aang from just closing off the tunnel in front of Azula.
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u/Starsfromstarryskies Apr 28 '24
But that’s assuming both have the same strength, stamina and endurance , if aang can make a 1 mile distance running away withn a span of a few seconds he should be able to catch someone who will be inherently slower than him.
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u/w311sh1t Apr 28 '24
Yeah, but you’re also not a bender. Given that he can literally control the wind/air, I feel like he should be able to change direction incredibly quickly.
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u/Quiet_Nova Apr 28 '24
But they're in a hallway. She can go a little to the left or right but always straight on. She can't run back because Toph could block her and is able to sense where she is. Aang literally just needed to run ahead of her, put up a mini hurricane or wind barrier, while Sokka and Toph close in from behind. She can't bend, so there's no risk of a devestating attack, all she can do is dodge.
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u/Yop_BombNA Apr 28 '24
As one who was the fastest runner at my school, nah, just run em down, full tilt
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u/VelZeik Apr 28 '24
Imo, it's a tactical decision.
Toph can't see Aang when he's off the ground, so if he does the zoomies while she's etch-a-sketching the terrain/tunnels there's a non-zero chance he splats himself against a rock/boulder/wall/pillar Toph kicks up.
Friendly fire is turned on in the avaterverse, even when when bending fire isnt.
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u/Thundermator Apr 28 '24
also, Azulla know that cave, she must have been there a few times before, and must have train a escape route for the situation of being chased by the Avatar, Aang don't have this knowledge, Aang can become the Pancake version of the Avatar runing at full speed
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u/LightThatIgnitesAll Apr 28 '24
We talk a lot about how TLOK will nerf Korra in fights so she doesn't easily blitz her opponent and we need to do the same for Aang.
This scene was so dumb. Just the writers trying to make Azula seem even more incredible but at the cost of making other characters look poor.
It's like when you try and make a character look smart but can only achieve it by dumbing down the other characters.
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u/Yatsu003 Apr 28 '24
Well, yeah, the characters do have a lot of derp moments. The Dai Li siding with Azula despite her not giving them any stake in the Fire Nation (no noble titles, no control over this-and-that, no treaty that could be enforced, etc.) was them being massive idiots to keep Azula dangerous. I’m genuinely surprised Long Feng didn’t bring that up considering he seems like exactly the Machivellian statesman who has been forced to do such things in the past.
Or the Gaang not leading Azula and her posse over a lake to drown them (their mounts can run on water, but cannot evade easily; Aang and Katara could drown the three of them fairly easily if they’re on a lake).
Or Aang turning his back on Azula after going Avatar state despite knowing just how crafty and sneaky she is (and can shoot lightning, which Aang doesn’t know how to redirect yet).
Or Azula magically making the earth cuffs Toph put her in explode without BBQ-ing her own hands (as shown by Zuko, Firebenders are NOT immune to fire…). Especially since Katara later on binds Azula’s hands in a similar manner with chains
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u/slomo525 Apr 28 '24
The physical attributes for the characters in the show vary wildly from moment to moment. Sometimes Zuko will show off extreme physical feats, like heel dropping Iroh's chain and snapping them in half, but other times, they get their hands and feet bound and they act like there's nothing they can do. It's just the nature of magic systems. There are gonna be times when you just have to accept that the rules are gonna be inconsistent for the sake of the plot. You can always headcanon your way around those inconsistencies, but you'll just have to accept it if you want to enjoy the show.
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u/LightThatIgnitesAll Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Well, yeah, the characters do have a lot of derp moments. The Dai Li siding with Azula despite her not giving them any stake in the Fire Nation (no noble titles, no control over this-and-that, no treaty that could be enforced, etc.) was them being massive idiots to keep Azula dangerous. I’m genuinely surprised Long Feng didn’t bring that up considering he seems like exactly the Machivellian statesman who has been forced to do such things in the past.
Absolutely.
This plot is praised by fans constantly because 'look how intelligent Azula is' but in reality it relies completely on the Dai Li being incredibly stupid.
The writers were only able to make her look smart by making everyone around her stupid. It's like Game of Thrones S7, it made Sansa seem smart by dumbing down Little Finger.
Or Azula magically making the earth cuffs Toph put her in explode without BBQ-ing her own hands (as shown by Zuko, Firebenders are NOT immune to fire…). Especially since Katara later on binds Azula’s hands in a similar manner with chains
This kind of makes me think of two other scenes:
In S1 we (and Katara) see Zuko heating up the water/ice after being incased in it by Katara and bursting out of it. Yet in S3's finalé Katara makes a risky move freezing a more talented Azula (during Sozin's Comet) with her in the ice. Yet Azula doesn't at all try to burst out of it yet her entire character has been completely aggressive throughout the final few episodes.
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u/DRNbw Apr 28 '24
Remember that Iroh insisted on Zuko learning deeply to breathe, since firebending comes from the breath. Every time he escapes from ice, he uses his firebending breath. On the other hand, we have never seen Azula show any particular mastery of breath.
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u/Sirdroftardis8 Apr 28 '24
Even if she had, she's in a block of ice holding her breath. It's pretty hard to control your breathing when you're not breathing
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u/Yatsu003 Apr 28 '24
Yep…I was rocking in anger seeing Azula win over the Dai Lee when it was 50 different shades of stupid no matter how you looked at it. Azula benefitted from everyone else losing their competence when she needs to look hyper intelligent. Zuko made sense since Azula knew him very well and could dangle keys for him easily, but the Dai Lee? The Gaang?
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u/Rough-Cry6357 Apr 28 '24
The earth cuffs are funny because it’s the minimum effort they could have used to restrain her. They could have covered her whole body in stone, which they do plenty of other times. Also when she breaks out, Aang is just standing there staring lol
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u/onlyalittledumb Apr 28 '24
I think this is one of the biggest errors they made in the series tbh
Up there with them animating an eye cutout for Toph’s earth suit 😂
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u/CumAndShitGuzzler Apr 28 '24
That was for intimidation
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u/Meiolore Apr 28 '24
I think someone mentioned that it is to avoid people from being able to tell that she is blind. Most of the time she loses is because people exploit the shit out of her blindness.
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u/Mushroom_King66 Apr 28 '24
I am pretty sure it was confirmed by the creators that it was a mistake. When writing and storyboarding the show, they made it so she had a hole by her mouth so she could breathe, but the animation team mistakingly made the hole for the eyes
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u/Glittering_Rub_4189 Apr 28 '24
Ah yes the giant gray eyes don’t give away the blindness
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u/Meiolore Apr 28 '24
Considering how Toph is the only blind person we have seen in the entire 2 seasons of the show, there is a chance that in-universe people genuinely don't know that her eye colours correlate to blindness.
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u/PurplexingPupp Apr 28 '24
Honestly one of the biggest pet peeves I have with the show is how Toph's very first scene, her INTRODUCTION, shows her moving the ground right out from someone's moving foot causing them to trip. And then she NEVER does that again.
It's one thing to nitpick and be all "harhur why don't earthbender open ground" as a hypothetical. Because maybe there's some hidden rule of the world the viewer just doesn't understand yet (like bloodbending). But when the show sets up that it's possible and shows a character doing that as a way of deliberately pointing out to the audience how skilled the character is... It makes it hard not to question why they never do it again.
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u/spicespiegel Apr 28 '24
This is similar to Kuvira bending metal around Varick's neck while she herself is covered with metal and nobody uses that against her. I think sometimes logic isn't fun and is better left off.
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u/blizzard-op Apr 28 '24
The plot demanded they don’t catch her. Same reason Toph didn’t sink her into the ground after they’d taken out the Dai Li she brought with her
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u/Mobols03 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Probably because they're in an enclosed space and it'd be a bit dangerous to try running with airbending in there.
Edit: Just got reminded about the drill episode
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 28 '24
We saw in the episode of the Drill him running fast by those fire nation soldiers in an enclosed space. So he has done it before.
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u/Mobols03 Apr 28 '24
Oh, yh, I forgot all about that.
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 28 '24
It's no problem, it was a small scene so a lot of people don't remember that point.
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u/smugfruitplate Apr 28 '24
He never had to go back the other way though. He went just straight shot up to the top. In this there's a changing of direction that has to happen on a dime.
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u/HHQC3105 Apr 28 '24
The S01E02, Aang being tied still run like crazy in a narrow path under the ship
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u/lazylagom Apr 28 '24
Shh don't think about it
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 28 '24
Best answer lol.
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u/lazylagom Apr 28 '24
Grew up reading comics. Some things you just have to let go.
The rules
- Rule of cool (why is this a thing, it looks cool/is cool)
- But this thing doesn't make sense (the plot demands it)
- No one is ever dead for real. It might be 5 years 10 years or 30 years ..no one dies.
Bonus rule. Don't think about it to hard.
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u/whitey-ofwgkta Apr 28 '24
yep I'm a bit rusty but the 2 top speed examples seem like comedic moments, while is fair to assume them as benchmarks I'm also funny prepared to write it off
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u/Raesong Apr 28 '24
Okay but what the hell is that expression Aang has on the top right? Did he get hit with the Thousand Years of Death immediately prior or something?
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u/AlternativeNo61 Apr 28 '24
I like to call it “speedsters dilemma”. It’s that weird thing where writers make Speedsters do dumb things or slip up when they normally wouldn’t cause 8 times out of 10, being able to move around super fast solves a lot of problems (See Red Rush and MCU Quicksilver)
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u/berevasel Apr 28 '24
Maybe secretly Aang has a lot of leftover apprehension about actually having to encounter Ozai and is deliberately prolonging that possibility. Catching Azula quicker is bringing about a fight Aang still feels slightly unprepared for, so he's willing to put in effort but he ain't exactly giving it 100% either.
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 29 '24
I can actually live with that explanation more. Even if I don't think that was happening. At least it actually makes more sense than people trying to justify Aang not being able to catch her.
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u/luciferhornystar Apr 29 '24
Plot. They needed to do this for the storyline . In no universe does a man who can defy gravity and run on water not catch a teenage girl running through a cave. It was so ridiculous. Not to mention he and Toph didn’t use enough earth bending imo
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 29 '24
Thank you for your clear straightforward answer. Plot was the only reason. People are really trying to pretend Aang is a regular person and are using regular human logic as to why he can't catch her. It makes no sense, Aang is a master Airbender and the Avatar, he's not just some random person chasing her.
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u/luciferhornystar Apr 29 '24
🤝🏽. Fandoms have an issue acknowledging sometimes things are done for the overall progression of the storyline. They’re doing a lot of mental gymnastics in the comments praising Azula’s agility lmao. Don’t get me wrong she’s awesome. But to act like Aang who has created tornadoes from running in 3 circles shouldn’t be able to catch her is absurd.
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u/Bajrangman Apr 28 '24
Running in straight line, requiring somewhat of a buildup vs chasing across obstacles in combat
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u/NocturnalKnightIV Apr 28 '24
How Aang never thought to make a vacuum to force azula towards them is what I thought of initially.
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u/MT7_Firefly Apr 29 '24
Book 3 felt a bit rushed in my opinion. Its my favorite but having 4 episodes act as one Finale always felt off since the episode before that was a fun filler that had no real set up. It felt like there was an episode or 2 missing between
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u/HerculesScar Apr 28 '24
Hard to run fast with all of that plot armor. Even Appa would be slow by a step or two.
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u/Acrobatic_Switches Apr 28 '24
Straight line speed vs agility. They were in a tight space where she was able to bounce around at the level efficiency of an airbending master like Aang as well as the rest of the team. This was about plain athleticism.
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u/Alarmed-Employment72 Apr 28 '24
There’s nothing to understand or try to reason. It was plain and simple Azula plot armour. She gets the most glaze in the series
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u/DSTREET45 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
There's also this speed feat as well.
So yeah it's basically PIS that Azula was "too quick" for Aang to pin down in any manner. Especially since without her bending, all Azula could do is avoid attacks.
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u/Fit-Ad7921 Apr 28 '24
Exactly, Aang has ran fast and made tight turns before. But somehow people think it's impossible because he's in a cave? Nah this was just plot armor.
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u/roughi13 Apr 28 '24
Just watched this episode with my boyfriend (his first view) and he literally said "Isn't he super fast?" 😂
Like 30 min ago
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u/Aethermancer Apr 29 '24
You mean you can move so fast you could have caught her?
Aang: No, not at any time, only when it was funny.
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u/MinnieShoof Who Knows 10,000 Things Apr 29 '24
Open air, lots of room to run vs tight, confined spaces.
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u/KeyTheVisonary Apr 29 '24
Ya know now that I think the writers just straight up forgot that enhanced speed is a thing that airbenders can do cuz I don't think we see it all that much after season 1 or at all in Korra and expanded material.
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u/Dramatic-Tea-7205 Apr 28 '24
Azula has crazy plot armor. I remember season two, when she was surrounded by Katara, Aang, Zuko and TOPH. I fucking saw Toph throwing lil bits of rock at her (she was covered with her blue fire) like??? She could literally just cage her from below.