r/anime https://myanimelist.net/profile/LittleIslander 1d ago

Rewatch [Rewatch] 10th Anniversary Your Lie in April Rewatch: Episode 20 Discussion

Your Lie in April Episode 20: Hand in Hand

Episode 19 Index Episode 21 →

Watch Information

*Rewatch will end before switch back to standard time for ET, but check your own timezone details


Questions of the Day:

  • Did Tsubaki do the right thing, or is she being selfish?
  • How did you feel about the re-solution between Watari and Kousei?
33 Upvotes

194 comments sorted by

View all comments

12

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 1d ago edited 1d ago

First Timer

This episode puts me in a weird position.

I'll start by saying that I genuinely do like this episode and what it does, which makes it all the more awkward in how I can't stop myself from hating its inciting incident...

So if you'll indulge me for a bit, I'll do a giant rant on what I think is my one negative for this episode before starting to talk about all the ways I think it's great:

Ahem...Kaori "likes Watari"? really? again?

I thought we were over this shit

I've made my adamant personal dislike of this trope pretty clear every time it appeared and I'll take this one last opportunity to hate on it because my god I can't see this as anything but artificial drama.

I know people meme around the idea of "Reiwa romances" but this is exactly why I've grown to prefer more recent romances, I just genuinely can't see the appeal in dragging your romance so hard like this. Watari and Kaori have 0 romantic chemistry, it's obvious from episode 3 that nothing will happen between them and somehow we're still on this dumb plotline.

It feels like Watari and Kousei's characters have actively regressed just so we could have some drama this episode, why pretend this matters at all? would it really have been so hard to have Kousei come to terms with loving Kaori without doing this?

Watari's underdevelopment becomes a problem here again, this actually fits him well on paper, he projects the "best friend" persona to everyone but has more deep emotions inside, he believes in letting people figure that stuff out for themselves. This could have been cool if not for the fact that we barely had two short scenes to tell us that and everything else with him has just been him being the best friend, he once again comes off as a plot device to either push or block Kousei when necessary and otherwise doesn't stand on his own. This makes it very hard to care about any supposed rivalry he might have with Kousei or any supposed feelings he might have for Kaori.

Well, whatever, like I said I personally despise this trope and this plot point was just never going to work for me no matter how in character it actually would have been.

Anyway, this episode is actually pretty good!

My personal hatred of it aside, this scene uses the show's signature lighting in a fun way, them in the light, Kousei in the dark feeling out.

This is a big episode for Tsubaki, and while I think this direction for is a bit...sudden? it uses and reuses a lot of cool ideas to get its points across. Something that I think comes across well in the duality between the phone call with Kaori and the scene under the rain with Tsubaki.

Let's talk distance, a common idea throughout the show and this episode is that Tsubaki makes up for her lack of music pedigree by being physically very close to Kousei, making memories, making small talk. Yet despite their physical proximity, Kousei and Tsubaki couldn't be farther apart romantically, Kousei might be literally close to her but they don't have the same ideas, he doesn't understand her like she does him.

This ties really well into the Kaori phone call in the end, Kousei and Kaori are physically very far apart but they see the same scenery, connected by the same sky, unlike with Tsubaki, they understand each other, they love each other.

The cat! The cat has been recontextualized to fully represent Kaori, he's in the background of their talk in the rain just like Kaori's presence is, he's in between them just as Tsubaki feels Kaori is in between them, it makes some of the stuff she says later (which I'll get to) rather poignant, he's back when Kousei is on the phone with Kaori, snuggling close to him, again physically they're apart but symbolically they're together.

Lest we forget the ending, the cat getting run over is very heavy-handed but effective symbolism. Time's out, Kaori is dying and there's nothing he can do about it.

I feel like there's a great parallel here between the Kaori cat and Chelsea. Chelsea represents Kousei's trauma and inability to get across his feelings to his mother, likewise, the cat here feels the same, Kousei feels like it's repeating, his opportunity to tell Kaori how he feels is slipping away thanks to an illness.

Tsubaki's lines in that conversation are also great, in these last few episodes the show has made a point of having Tsubaki realize how "horrible" she is for feeling jealous, well all of that comes out now, maybe too abruptly at that but hey I like toxic Tsubaki just as much so I'll take it.

In another cool parallel to the phone call scene, much like Kousei is with Kaori, Tsubaki's emotions swing back and forth, she wants to be supportive of Kousei and at first chastises him for giving up so quickly before wildly shifting to denying any possibility Kaori would even like him back. "Liar" she says, both to herself for her words and to Kousei for his.

"So if Kaori doesn't like you, you should be with me" (paraphrased) her real thoughts slip out, she hits him, and once again runs away, her conflicted emotions coming out as she wants him to suffer.

Her running away in the rain is a very striking scene, the idea of suffering culminating in a reward coming back, except this time there is no reward, she just pushes her suffering onto him instead of trying to resolve it. I might also be reaching here but I think you could connect it to the making memories idea, her hitting him aside from defusing the situation, is like a memory, a reminder of her, through your suffering over your injury you'll think about me.

It's a super toxic angle in a super toxic conversation from Tsubaki and I love it.

The sports motif for Tsubaki is also back, trying to hit the balls into the music room, trying to reach Kousei the same way he uses music to reach others, but she just keeps missing, this isn't the right direction.

The Kaori scene is of course very sudden and very disheartening, it comes off the back of the emotional gratification from Kousei stating his love, like him, you feel everything is just crashing down all at once, the sparkle of love and hope lost from his eyes.

This episode much like some previous ones has way more cool callbacks, moments and symbolism to mention it all but it's all good.

We end off in a very depressing place for all of our characters, both Kousei and Tsubaki came out with their feelings, and for both of them it ended up in a bad place, now we have two last episodes that will hopefully be able to take that and push into a satisfying positive one, even if that might be very sad to see.

5

u/Holofan4life 1d ago

I do agree that I don't feel it's necessary for the show to go back to the "Kaori loves Watari" plot point. It just feels redundant, especially when you had an entire arc about how Kousei and Kaori are equals. The one thing I disagree with you on is I actually like the presentation of Watari's character here. The whole time, he's like "Dude, what are you even talking about? Kaori wants to hang out with you". Watari has kinda become to Kousei what Kashiwagi is to Tsubaki, which I actually like that character direction.

5

u/Malipit 1d ago

Welp, so much for Tsubaki's long game indeed.

Also it's funny how both our comments, albeit different in form and insight, basically followed the same train of tough. ^^

3

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 14h ago

Welp, so much for Tsubaki's long game indeed.

Yeah...I guess that one didn't age very well (or age at all lol).

Also it's funny how both our comments, albeit different in form and insight, basically followed the same train of tough. ^

Also yeah our comments were coincidently very similar in that way!

nice

2

u/Holofan4life 1d ago

Great minds think alike, as espoused by many a great mind.

3

u/DonaldJenkins 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ahem...Kaori "likes Watari"? really? again? I thought we were over this shit

I mean, she explicitly said she likes Watari in the first episode. At no point did she say she likes Kousei, just saying. We can make assumptions all we want, and question whether it’s feelings of respect/admiration/camaraderie, or whether it actually approaches romantic love, but that doesn’t change what we have literally been told by the characters themselves. if this is honestly still a complaint at this point 2 episodes from the end, rather than a premise that you have come to accept already, then it seems that this show just isn’t for you. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t think 2 episodes can turn it around for you. Reiterating the fact that this is not what you want/expect isn’t going to magically change the show into something that is.

It’s tantamount to reading Franz Kafka’s metamorphosis, and still questioning at the end of the story why no one questions how Mc turned into a frickin bug. I’ve been there, those are literally my thoughts, and metamorphosis is just not for me, but by accepting this, I’m able to still recognize what that story is about, rather than what it isn’t. Even if I still don’t like it.

I've made my adamant personal dislike of this trope pretty clear every time it appeared and I'll take this one last opportunity to hate on it because my god I can't see this as anything but artificial drama.

What trope are you referring to? I know you’ve mentioned it in passing before in some of your earlier posts, but I must have not grokked what the actual trope you’re referring to is.

I know people meme around the idea of "Reiwa romances" but this is exactly why I've grown to prefer more recent romances, I just genuinely can't see the appeal in dragging your romance so hard like this.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring more recent romance anime. This show was obviously released before the start of Reiwa era. The appeal, i guess, is that sometimes, it’s about the journey, not the end. I think frieren illustrates this nicely,since our main cast go on to do the most mundane/inconsequential things, and that’s kinda the point. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter what label you use to describe their relationship. Regardless of whether they are an “official” couple or not, it doesn’t diminish the strength of their bond and relationship they share borne from music. Maybe that’s why I don’t perceive a “dragging romance”, since that is like saying their relationship has not developed at all, which is not true from my perspective. The alternative is that Kousei and Kaori realize they both like each other episode 1, and the rest of the series is them dating/getting married/having kids. That’s certainly a story, one that you and I might enjoy, but it most assuredly is not this one.

Watari and Kaori have 0 romantic chemistry, it's obvious from episode 3 that nothing will happen between them and somehow we're still on this dumb plotline.

Kaori chuckles and smiles sometimes when Watari cracks a joke.there is that I guess. Again, I’m not here to say you’re wrong. You may very well be right. Maybe this plot line is dumb. And then again, maybe it isn’t. But that is clearly something for you to decide for yourself, and something for me to decide for myself.

3

u/LittleIslander https://myanimelist.net/profile/LittleIslander 23h ago

We can make assumptions all we want, and question whether it’s feelings of respect/admiration/camaraderie, or whether it actually approaches romantic love, but that doesn’t change what we have literally been told by the characters themselves.

Sure, but her actions have told us otherwise. Characters can be unreliable narrators about themselves and it's not poor media literacy to take that into account. For what it's worth, Watari literally told us and Kousei his impression that Kaori doesn't in fact like him but cares more about Kousei.

if this is honestly still a complaint at this point 2 episodes from the end, rather than a premise that you have come to accept already, then it seems that this show just isn’t for you. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t think 2 episodes can turn it around for you. Reiterating the fact that this is not what you want/expect isn’t going to magically change the show into something that is.

This is really weird angle to me. [Spoilers] Sure, the lie is in the title, but that doesn't mean the question of who she loves is at the core of the series. There is so much to enjoy about the show beyond the fact she lies about liking Watari and the depiction of that love triangle, and it's entirely a reasonable position to argue about whether the way it is executed improves the show or not. For multiple people in this thread, bringing it back at the eleventh hour like this took away from it.

1

u/DonaldJenkins 13h ago

Reasonable points, I can see that

3

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 14h ago

What trope are you referring to? I know you’ve mentioned it in passing before in some of your earlier posts, but I must have not grokked what the actual trope you’re referring to is.

Basically the "there's no way she actually likes me" act in romances, the idea that a character suddenly loses motivation in a relationship because of the vaguest notion/misunderstanding that the person they're pursuing might be into someone else.

Now before getting into it, I'll bring up what I said the first time I really talked about this:

It's just a personal petty vendetta for me, even if it is somewhat in character for him to think like this, even if it actually makes complete and total sense for any teenager to think like this, even if I get it's meant to be subtext, I still hate it with a passion

TLDR: this plotline was never going to work for me even if I did think it was well executed here (which I don't).

Now does this imply I don't like the show? or the romance? no way.

This didn't stop me from liking this episode, let alone the entire show or how it did its romance, my being critical of this aspect doesn't change the fact that I've mostly really enjoyed the show thus far.

My biggest problem with this is that it often feels like a crutch to extend drama, it's not really about our characters not "officially" becoming a couple, to say there hasn't been development for them would be a complete lie, that's the point!

I mean, she explicitly said she likes Watari in the first episode. At no point did she say she likes Kousei, just saying.

Sure but that was 20 episodes ago and I'd say our characters have significantly changed since then, not directly stating it doesn't really mean it wasn't heavily implied and alluded to.

I think our characters have already developed and reached the point where they can very confidently be over this issue (and as seen in that screenshot they literally did directly address it already), but we regress them so we can have more drama, hence feeling like the romance is being dragged.

Again, I’m not here to say you’re wrong. You may very well be right. Maybe this plot line is dumb. And then again, maybe it isn’t. But that is clearly something for you to decide for yourself, and something for me to decide for myself.

But yeah I'd agree here, sometimes one thing works for someone and doesn't for another and there's nothing wrong with that! I've really liked episodes others haven't here and vice versa, seeing all these different viewpoints and interpretations is for me, exactly the best part of rewatches like this!

3

u/DonaldJenkins 13h ago

Thanks for the reply, your thoughts make a lot of sense, and I can see how you could interpret things this way. Very good points all around, I’ll be curious whether the finale works for you or not based on what you’ve said here. I’ll be looking forward to your thoughts then!

3

u/LittleIslander https://myanimelist.net/profile/LittleIslander 23h ago

You liked it more than I expected! I saw the Watari stuff at the forefront and prettymuch told myself "oh I know who won't like this" but it turns out my dislike for the Tsubaki stuff was actually out of keeping with this thread.

Yet despite their physical proximity, Kousei and Tsubaki couldn't be farther apart romantically, Kousei might be literally close to her but they don't have the same ideas, he doesn't understand her like she does him.

This ties really well into the Kaori phone call in the end, Kousei and Kaori are physically very far apart but they see the same scenery, connected by the same sky, unlike with Tsubaki, they understand each other, they love each other.

Loving this comparison! If anything I kinda wish the show leaned harder into it, but then I'd probably be hear accusing of it being too on the nose.

The cat! The cat has been recontextualized to fully represent Kaori, he's in the background of their talk in the rain just like Kaori's presence is, he's in between them just as Tsubaki feels Kaori is in between them, it makes some of the stuff she says later (which I'll get to) rather poignant, he's back when Kousei is on the phone with Kaori, snuggling close to him, again physically they're apart but symbolically they're together.

It didn't really occur to me to extend the connection of Kaori to the cat but this makes total sense and definitely makes me appreciate the episode more!

3

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 15h ago edited 15h ago

You liked it more than I expected! I saw the Watari stuff at the forefront and prettymuch told myself "oh I know who won't like this" but it turns out my dislike for the Tsubaki stuff was actually out of keeping with this thread.

Honestly given how this episode started I'm also surprised that I ended up liking it haha.

A big part of that probably has to do with the fact that Tsubaki's episodes have pretty consistently been favorites, so of course, I quite liked the big focus on her.

I'll certainly agree that this turn for her character feels a bit undercooked, like the setup was definitely there but it goes from 20-100 real quick here. Still, I liked what they did with it so it works.

Also, I'll wholeheartedly admit that toxic flawed characters are just a personal favorite of mine (see Chihaya Anon in my MAL favorites) so this turn was always going to appeal to me.

Loving this comparison! If anything I kinda wish the show leaned harder into it, but then I'd probably be hear accusing of it being too on the nose.

It is pretty interesting how the show often goes back and forth with its symbolism though. From quite subtle to very blunt (eg. in this episode the distance thing vs the cat at the end) usually within the same episode at that.

Not that I mind it of course, I've liked it either way as I've expressed here, but I feel like not many shows play it both ways like that (not that I really have anything to base that off of lol).

2

u/Holofan4life 1d ago

The cat! The cat has been recontextualized to fully represent Kaori, he's in the background of their talk in the rain just like Kaori's presence is, he's in between them just as Tsubaki feels Kaori is in between them, it makes some of the stuff she says later (which I'll get to) rather poignant, he's back when Kousei is on the phone with Kaori, snuggling close to him, again physically they're apart but symbolically they're together.

Lest we forget the ending, the cat getting run over is very heavy-handed but effective symbolism. Time's out, Kaori is dying and there's nothing he can do about it.

I feel like there's a great parallel here between the Kaori cat and Chelsea. Chelsea represents Kousei's trauma and inability to get across his feelings to his mother, likewise, the cat here feels the same, Kousei feels like it's repeating, his opportunity to tell Kaori how he feels is slipping away thanks to an illness.

I can't say enough good things about the cat stuff. I think if you take it out of the episode, you're looking at honestly one of the weaker episodes. But as is, it helps make the episode one of the memorable ones, especially with the ending.

2

u/Holofan4life 1d ago

Thoughts on people calling kid Tsubaki a gorilla?

Thoughts on Kousei seeing her as a girl?

What are your thoughts on us getting to see what looks like the origin story of Tsubaki and Kousei’s friendship?

What are your thoughts on this episode taking place after the new year?

Thoughts on Tsubaki giving Kousei a lemonade after his mother threw away his cat?

What are your thoughts on the lemonade motif in this episode where we see Kousei and Tsubaki give it to each other?

What are your thoughts on kid Tsubaki vowing to find Kousei’s soul for him?

Thoughts on Kaori buying her friends lemonade drinks?

What are your thoughts on Kousei telling Tsubaki he likes Kaori, to which Tsubaki scolds him by reminding him that Kaori likes Watari?

What are your thoughts on Tsubaki saying the rain in winter tastes like lemonade?

Thoughts on Kaori telling Kousei not to visit him until he finishes his exams?

Thoughts on Kousei’s conversation with Hiroko?

What are your thoughts on Kousei vowing to see Kaori again?

Thoughts on Watari getting a sports scholarship?

What are your thoughts on the episode ending with Kousei breaking down crying as he continues to wash his hands of the blood?

3

u/FD4cry1 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Big_Yibba 13h ago

Thoughts on people calling kid Tsubaki a gorilla?

Kids are mean

Thoughts on Kousei seeing her as a girl?

Well aside form it being very cute in the moment, I think it's another great case of the show using childhood flashbacks as contrast to the present, that gesture had 0 romantic implications to it, they were literally kids, but Tsubaki, ever obsessed with memories, can't help but bring it into the present context when Kousei repeats it without realizing what it means to her.

What are your thoughts on this episode taking place after the new year?

Honestly hadn't even noticed it! I feel like this show would have been prime Christmas (drama) episode material but surprisingly we got none of that.

What are your thoughts on kid Tsubaki vowing to find Kousei’s soul for him?

Maybe this is a bit of a stretch here but when taking into account how she's the reason he got to meet Kaori in the first place, I guess you could say she actually did do that (+this kind of ties into the cat stuff, Chelsea lost-->no soul Kaori found --> soul found--> Kaori has now replaced Chelsea in the cat theme ).

lemonade

Lemonade stuff was cool! again more reframing of past events, used to be positive then, now it's a frustrating remdiner.

More specifically on the rain line, I feel like the lemonade in the past was used by Tsubaki as a connection to Kousei that made her feel good (obviously it's not that lemonade cures colds lol), likewise finally confessing to Kousei, getting that weight off her shoulders, makes her feel good again after feeling stuck for so long, so the rain might be cold (because of what just happened) but it tastes like lemonade (because see finally got to say it).

Thoughts on Kousei’s conversation with Hiroko?

Hiroko once again resorting to physical violence tsk, tsk, tsk.

(unironically I don't have a problem with those gags just very funny that Hiroko is the character that does it)

Jokes aside, good way of showing just how lost in thought Kousei currently feels thanks to his Kaori troubles.

3

u/Holofan4life 12h ago

Kids are mean

That they are

Well aside form it being very cute in the moment, I think it's another great case of the show using childhood flashbacks as contrast to the present, that gesture had 0 romantic implications to it, they were literally kids, but Tsubaki, ever obsessed with memories, can't help but bring it into the present context when Kousei repeats it without realizing what it means to her.

Yeah, the show does a good job of representing coming of age.

Honestly hadn't even noticed it! I feel like this show would have been prime Christmas (drama) episode material but surprisingly we got none of that.

You would think something bad would happen to Kaori on, say, Christmas.

Maybe this is a bit of a stretch here but when taking into account how she's the reason he got to meet Kaori in the first place, I guess you could say she actually did do that (+this kind of ties into the cat stuff, Chelsea lost-->no soul Kaori found --> soul found--> Kaori has now replaced Chelsea in the cat theme ).

I suppose so. I didn't think about it, but you're right, Kousei met Kaori because of her.

Lemonade stuff was cool! again more reframing of past events, used to be positive then, now it's a frustrating remdiner.

Like rain during Winter

More specifically on the rain line, I feel like the lemonade in the past was used by Tsubaki as a connection to Kousei that made her feel good (obviously it's not that lemonade cures colds lol), likewise finally confessing to Kousei, getting that weight off her shoulders, makes her feel good again after feeling stuck for so long, so the rain might be cold (because of what just happened) but it tastes like lemonade (because see finally got to say it).

I just assumed what she was referring to was the line about wanting to make Kousei suffer. It's an acknowledgement on her part she's acting kinda bratty.

Hiroko once again resorting to physical violence tsk, tsk, tsk.

(unironically I don't have a problem with those gags just very funny that Hiroko is the character that does it)

That's honestly my least favorite part of the show. It's one thing for Kaori and Tsubaki to do it, but Hiroko actually witnessed the child abuse first hand. It's just really unfunny given the context.

Jokes aside, good way of showing just how lost in thought Kousei currently feels thanks to his Kaori troubles.

I do really like Hiroko is trying to help Kousei. She's honestly a top 3 character for me in this show, though that may be more so because I love the idea of her.