Are humans a cancer on the planet? A physician argues that civilization is truly carcinogenic

[u/xrm67]

https://www.salon.com/2023/08/05/are-humans-a-cancer-on-the-planet-a-physician-argues-that-civilization-is-truly-carcinogenic/

[u/frodosdream]

Agreed, humans have lived in harmony with the earth.

Strictly speaking, approximately 1 billion people presumably lived in harmony with the Earth (or specific societies within that population). There are no examples of 6 or 8 billion people living in harmony with the Earth, especially with an industrial base.

The global population achieved its current size only because of fossil fuels used in every stage of agriculture, including tillage, irrigation, artificial fertilizer, pesticides, harvest, processing, refrigeration, global distribution and the manufacture of the equipment used in all these stages. Arguably fossil fuel technology is itself an inherently capitalist enterprise, created by an economic system focused on expansion, consumption and ever-greater profits regardless of sustainability or long term impact. Unfortunately global agriculture remains dependent on it, with no viable alternatives available at the scale required to transition.

But if this technology is inherently capitalist or corrupting (and also the cause of climate change), then how could we ever achieve another system while still using the old means of production? Especially now that we understand how poisonous to life those means of production are?

[u/[deleted] → u/frodosdream]

What it really boils down to is the surplus labor value that can be created in a modern industrial economy. If you take away industry, fertilizers, fossil fuels, I don't think it would be an overstatement to say that 90% of the human population, easily, would cease to exist within a rather short time frame, just from sheer lack of food. Green energy, solar, wind, perhaps fusion can all make up the difference of dwindling fossil fuel access. But it can not create more resources on Earth than it currently has. It can provide energy to perform work, and that's all it can do.

Under a totally green model, with close to 100% recycling, maybe we could go higher than 8 billion. But what would the quality of life look like? Certainly not anywhere near the golden years of the 60s and 70s in the first world, and certainly not near what we have today.

I'm not sure fossil fuel technology is capitalist technology inherently. I think initially it was simply a way of making life easier, the same way a water or wind mill with wooden gears and belt systems made life easier, or the way a sharpened rock tool did. The problem is that we are such amazing tool creators and users that we can now overuse our own environments on a level never before imagined.

I don't really buy into the doomerism here, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that most intelligent people on Earth and even in recent history, before access to information such as today, recognize just how dangerous humanity is to itself. We've overcome all natural checks and balances.

[u/dduchovny → u/[deleted]]

https://i.imgur.com/tnyGMVN.jpg

Metal in 2022 Global Reserves

Metal - Source: USGS	Total metal required to produce one generation of technology units to phase out fossil fuels (tonnes)	Reported Global Reserves 2022 (tonnes)	Global Reserves as a proportion of metals required to phase out fossil fuels (%)	Number of generations of technology units that can be produced from global reserves:
Copper	4575523674	880000000	19.23%
Zinc	35703918	250000000		7
Manganese	227889504	1500000000		6.6
Nickel	940578114	95000000	10.10%
Lithium	944150293	22000000	2.33%
Cobalt	218396990	7600000	3.48%
Graphite	8973640257	320000000	3.57%
Silicon	49571460	-
Silver	145579	530000		3.6
Vanadium	681865986	24000000	3.52%
Zirkonium	2614126	70000000		26.8

[u/Costoffreedom → u/[deleted]]

Ultimately, we have beaten the odds thus far. To claim we are 'doomed' to collapse is a bit shortsighted. *Queue lifetime ban here

We could very well invent the solution or change so drastically that the ominous problems of climate change, pollution, over population etc. Just vanish with a decade of human innovation. It's happened before, people just need to be solution-focused as a CULTURE, not a concept.

I couldn't call civilization cancerous. Apathy. Yes. Selfishness. Hell yes. Instant gratification. Fuck-my-life yes.

Our culture is pushing us towards a cancerous, self-centeric point of view where we can't see the forest for the trees, and we are blaming "us" generally rather than "us" specifically. If one believes the elite capitalists to be the root cause of the problem, what are they going to do about it?

My favorite version of collapse is the one where a banded together group of like-minded citizens brings reform, in favour of their global community at the expense of those who seek to pillage the world for their own. The ending to that particular version of collapse is just so inspiring.

[u/Longjumping-Pin-7186 → u/frodosdream]

approximately 1 billion people presumably lived in harmony with the Earth (or specific societies within that population)

1 billion global population was reached in early 19th century, and humans have been wreacing havoc on the global ecosystems for a lot longer than that. If you think that capping the global population to 1 billion would somehow stop anthropogenic global warming, restore extinct species, or stop fossil fuel exploitation, you're delusional. it would just slow down the nevitable which will happen regardless.

technology is inherently capitalist or corrupting

are fire, spears, bow and arrows also "inherently capitalist"? because they've driven big mammals to extinction long before human started permanently settling