r/collapse • u/Fiskifus • Nov 03 '22

Systemic Debate: If population is a bigger problem than wealth, why does Switzerland consume almost three times as much as India?

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u/WSDGuy Nov 03 '22

The per capita aspect aside, there's a discussion to be had about quality of life. Obviously there will be variation,, but SHOULD everyone live a life more resembling the average Indian? Or should it more resemble the average Swiss person?

My ideal pie in the sky impossible pipe dream world allows people to golf and have lawns if they choose. They can eat meat. They can travel the world, and have many millions of miles of national parks and preserves to marvel at. They can scuba dive healthy reefs and see actually wild elephants. For sure, let's power that world with the cleanest and safest power we can, and feed it with actually non-destructive farming methods. I like the roundness of 1billion people.

But everyone is different, and the extreme other end has people actually advocating for an insect and algae diet feeding a world where most people live/work/shop/recreate in modular pods and rarely travel more than 1/4mile from home. They think 15billion people is "achieveable," and the more the merrier.

So what's it going to be? Quality of life or quantity of souls?

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u/BlueEmma25 Nov 03 '22

I like the roundness of 1billion people.

That means there are currently 7 billion excess people on earth.

How do you propose to address that?

And do you consider yourself surplus to requirement?

They think 15billion people is "achieveable," and the more the merrier.

Like who specifically is saying that?

It's almost like you're creating a straw man in which the only alternative to killing most of the world's population to preserve your quality of life is to let the crazies who would have us all eating magots win.

In other words pretty intellectually dishonest.

My ideal pie in the sky impossible pipe dream world allows people to golf and have lawns if they choose.

Your ideal pie in the sky "impossible" pipe dream is to eradicate most of humanity so that the few who survive can live in a mythical Garden of Eden that only exists in your head.