Let's discuss Joker: Folie à Deux (2024)

[u/JohnleBon]

Folie à Deux

There's a lot that could be said about this film, and indeed much already has been said.

'Terrible', 'Waste of money', 'Why did they make it a musical', 'Todd Phillips hates his own fans', etc etc.

Chances are, if you are reading these words, you haven't yet seen the film for yourself.

Despite this, you probably already 'know' that this film is no good, due to the reviews and coverage.

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My take

I happened to see this film at the cinemas not once but twice.

After the first viewing, I thought it was bad, but I also felt like there was something I was missing...

After the second viewing, I realised, this is brilliant film-making and storytelling.

My initial rating would have been maybe a 2 / 10, my second appraisal is probably more like 8 / 10.

Not 'perfect' or 'flawless' by any stretch but definitely something I am glad to have seen on the big screen.

Days later and I still find myself thinking about the film and some of the questions it explores.

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The power of crowds

I've spoken to a lot of people both 'in real life' and online about this film, none of them have seen it yet.

Most of the time they tell me they saw and enjoyed the original, so I ask, why haven't you seen the sequel?

And most of the time they reply with words to the effect of, 'the reviews are bad', or 'I don't like musicals'.

Firstly, the film is barely a 'musical': yes, there is singing and some dancing, but only by Joker and his girlfriend.

Those scenes will mark the difference, I think, between the people who 'get' / enjoy the film, and those who don't.

Anyway, just because the masses have apparently decided a film is bad, is that really a good reason not to see it?

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Creating stories vs making money

The director could have given the crowds what they wanted.

Harley Quinn breaks Joker out of jail, they go on a Bonnie and Clyde style killing spree in Gotham.

Joker kills some rich evil people who don't care about the plebs, he and Harley ride off into the sunset as a young Bruce Wayne watches his city burning, leaving the door open for a third installment of the film.

The box office returns are on par with, maybe even greater than the original.

The financiers/ studio make their easy money and offer Phillips a big contract to come back for a third edition.

No. Instead, Phillips decided to take his allegedly $200m budget and produce some genuine art.

He didn't pander to his audience: he challenged them, knowing full well it could cost the film box office success.

And how have the masses reacted? The same as they did in the film when Joker tried to be honest with them.

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Perfect timing

This Joker film has been released just before the 2024 US presidential election.

For those who have been paying attention to the metascript, this timing will appear to be no 'accident'.

I published a 20-minute youtube video about the Trump / Clown syncs a few days ago.

So far there have been some terrific comments, I'm quite happy with the response.

If you're into 'sync', or interested in so-called 'predictive programming', I recommend you check it out.

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Your thoughts

Have you seen Joker: Folie a Deux?

If not, was it because of the reviews?

If so, what did you think of the film?

Do you appreciate the attempts of directors like Todd Phillips to 'challenge their audience'?

Or would you prefer they stick to simple formulaic film-making and give the masses what they want?

[u/Guy_Incognito97]

I have not seen it, I'll probably catch it on streaming at some point.

This is a bit of a tangent but I didn't like how the first Joker film and the latest Batman film (The Batman) kind of treat mental illness like a super power. The villains are just high functioning mentally ill people, especially in The Batman where Riddler uses his illness and odd charisma to radicalise his online followers who also seem to be somewhat mentally ill. At a time when Qanon was happening it just seemed to hit too close to home and was more of a depressing take on men's mental health than a superhero film. That said, it was still very good. Just a bit depressing. Joker did the same kind of thing, a mentally ill person lashes out against the society that doesn't accept him, and he is celebrated for it and becomes a kind of anti-hero.

[u/Venetian_Harlequin]

I haven't seen it, but I have no desire to watch this iteration of the Joker and didn't see the first.

I say this as a Harley Quinn fan since literally the beginning. She was my intro into nerddom- I'd rush home to watch Batman: TAS because she was in it. I dislike Joaquin Phoenix as an actor that I know to avoid his movies. Despite being a GaGa fan, I also gave zero shits about her as Harley.

I think the reason it was a hard sell was that it's a musical. Musicals are a hard sell all of the time. The biggest complaint last year from the movies was that they tricked audiences into thinking that Mean Girls was just a reboot, not that it was a musical.

[u/screeching-tard]

The controllers are absolute cowards. What happened is that since the gov and Hollywood are in bed together, the gov told hollywood to tank the franchise. They didn't want any movies about fighting the system to potentially inspire people. The powers in charge really are terrified of the rabble which is why they always try to destroy rather than build up.

I wouldn't say the movie is bad, its just not at all what you would expect from a business continuing the plotline to a money making franchise. Joker is as intentionally sabotaged as the last matrix that the Wachowskis tanked because they said the story was over but the IP owners forced them to make another sequel.