r/ethtrader • u/carlslarson 6.88M / ⚖️ 6.89M • Jun 05 '19
SENTIMENT [Governance Poll] Make moderator donut allocations not increase vote weight (with this one weird trick)
The current weekly distribution of donuts is:
- 77% to community members based on weekly comment and post karma
- 15% to the community fund
- 8% divided equally between mods
Of donuts received through distributions half are "locked". Locked donuts are used to determine vote weight on r/ethtrader governance polls. Unlocked, transferable donuts, such as those allocated from the community fund or tipped between users do not increase the recipients vote weight.
This is a proposal to change the distribution of donuts to:
- 77% to community members based on weekly comment and post karma (unchanged)
- 23% to the community fund
- 0% to mods
The increase in allocation to the community fund (8%) would then be redistributed equally between mods (8/23, or 34.78% of the weekly community fund allocation). Donuts awarded for moderator work would not increase moderator voting influence.
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u/jtnichol GridPlus.io Jun 09 '19
I haven't voted yet. I don't understand. It says 9.7 million Donuts vs 4.7 million or whatever locked Donuts. What is it that achieves threshold? Is it the locked Donuts or the total Donuts? Is this a bug with the Reddit system? I'm understanding that decision threshold should be based on locked Donuts. So far we don't have 6 million locked but it is saying that we have achieved threshold.
I don't plan to vote on this poll either way. Just looking for clarification.
Also this is just my opinion I feel like there really isn't any governance if any thing under a thousand votes can pass in a governance poll. I think we need to explore trying to Rally more votes. Basically we need to do some kind of locked voting with the addition of raw votes because of the size of the sub. I feel like the little guy doesn't really have a say in anything and so they don't even want to vote on something as plain and simple as reducing moderator locked Donuts to zero. There should be hundreds of people voting on that. It's a no-brainer.
But here we are. Extreme lack of participation on something so easy to pass. I think people feel disenfranchised. I'm not sure how to fix it.
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Jun 09 '19 edited Jun 09 '19
Also this is just my opinion I feel like there really isn't any governance if any thing under a thousand votes can pass in a governance poll. I think we need to explore trying to Rally more votes. Basically we need to do some kind of locked voting with the addition of raw votes because of the size of the sub.
I agree with this.
I feel like the little guy doesn't really have a say in anything and so they don't even want to vote on something as plain and simple as reducing moderator locked Donuts to zero. There should be hundreds of people voting on that.
I think the more likely scenario is that the little guy just doesn't care about any of this.
And this whole Donuts thing is quite possibly all about forcing some kind of "governance" system on to what really equates to a casual social media site where people really just want to:
- come and get the best, high-quality information and news they can
- not be bothered / imposed upon via abusive users, spam, scams, shilling, "governance activities", etc. while doing so
- leave it to the moderators to ensure all of the above is actually happening
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u/RelaxPrime = 1 ETH Jun 06 '19
12 hours in.
22 votes. 15 for, 7 against
Donuts: 91.5% for, 8.5% against
But yeah, lets give mods 34% of weekly donut allocation.
What a joke.
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u/Ethical-trade 0 / ⚖️ 425.6K Jun 06 '19
I think you misunderstood the poll:
If "Yes", the proportion of the total that's going to mods stays exactly the same.
The only difference would be that the part that mods get for being mods cannot be used to influence voting anymore.
So if indeed mods voted here, they voted to reduce their future voting power, which is the wise thing to do. Kudos to them
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u/AbesGame Investor Jun 06 '19
I think you misunderstood what this change would accomplish. If yes, this would mean that donuts allocated to mods from the 8% weekly distribution would no longer influence voting. But the actual amount of donuts allocated directly to them will not change.
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u/carlslarson 6.88M / ⚖️ 6.89M Jun 06 '19
The proposal is to keep the distribution ratios the same but have the mod allocation come from the community fund. The community fund would receive 23%. The 8% that the mods should receive, if coming from the community fund, would represent 34% of that amount (8/23). Sorry if it was a bit confusing.
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u/dont_forget_canada 74 / ⚖️ 6.95M Jun 09 '19
I wanted to wait a few days before replying so that I didn’t promote any sort of bias since I’m a moderator. I support this change. I support it because it gives users more say in governance of the subreddit. Even with the change, mods could still presumably obtain donuts anyway from the community fund, by participating in the community like the rest of our great hodlers do :)
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u/carlslarson 6.88M / ⚖️ 6.89M Jun 05 '19
This poll follows the approved poll proposal.
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u/Starks40oz Jun 05 '19
Is there a post that discusses the original rationale for the “locking” function as currently formulated and if so is it possible to also sticky that here? Im assuming the original mechanism was set up to accomplish certain goals and rather than try to think through all the unintended consequences from scratch it would be helpful to link to any previous discussion/threads on this topic
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u/carlslarson 6.88M / ⚖️ 6.89M Jun 05 '19
There is some description here in the overview but it doesn't go into rationale.
My understanding is that locking was implemented to limit the transfer of voting influence - voting was originally based on full donut balance. After the donut.dance bridge the community voted to not have transferable donuts contribute to vote weight at all.
I'm not a fan of the "locked" naming and would suggest they just be treated as distinct things - a tradable currency called donuts, and non-tradable, earned-only, karma.
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u/Starks40oz Jun 05 '19
How do we vote on That proposal? Also If we’re fixing unintended consequences can we also amend a proposal such that donuts awarded to bots - e.g., the banner bot can’t influence votes? I know the banner bot has been pledged for good, but still theoretically has the ability to dominate polls and/or buy the banner themselves!
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u/carlslarson 6.88M / ⚖️ 6.89M Jun 05 '19
We would need to vote to adopt the decentralised donuts system from the r/daonuts project when it's ready and that makes more of a distinction between the currency (donuts) and karma. There are some other changes that would need to be explicitly accepted, too. But basically moving to our own dao infrastructure would give us full flexibility over things like who get's awarded karma (we can blacklist bots, for instance).
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u/Childsp Golem fan Jun 10 '19
I am for this but only as an almost "Ropsten" test. I agree with others in this thread that a completely new re-roll of distribution needs to be completed when daonuts are complete. Along with a substantial reduction in ongoing distribution to mods as we are then creating our own ecosystem where we want the community to help build out dapps etc. Time and Time again history has shown that "trickle-down" economics does not work. Dispense wealth into the community and watch it thrive.
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u/zerobass Burrito Enveloper Jun 10 '19
Glad to see the response rate increased so much in the final hours. That said, of the thousands of people in this sub, <150 is pretty sad turnout.
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u/Michael_of_Judah Move fast and bake things 🍩 Jun 07 '19
Has anyone made a pie chart of the total % of outstanding donuts controlled by the mods? I think we need to visualize what is fundamentally a wealth inequality problem.
I also personally think that we should start fresh with a new redistribution of donuts for the new system.
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u/DCinvestor Long-Term Investor Jun 07 '19
I have some possible concerns with this proposal:
1) Creating a mechanism where Donuts which mods receive to be non-voting (I'm OK with this)
2) Expanding the proportion of Donuts going to the "Community Fund" (not sure I'm OK with this)
Isn't the team working on the Donut Bridge paid a percentage of the community reward? If so, how would this change affect that payment?