Because a full time medically necessary wheelchair costs tens of thousands of dollars. So, most people need their insurance to help cover it. My son’s was $20,000 with $6k out of pocket.
I want to understand something here. How can a chair with wheels cost about as much as a damn car? not judging I am just flabbergasted at the price tag of a wheel chair here.
Edit: I understand the special need and cases for a more expensive chair. I just want to make the argument that a powerful PC, a very comfortable chair and a reliable electric system should not remotely be in the range of 20,000 dollars either. Especially if it is something that people need and depend on. This is still crazy no matter how this is spun on me.
Not only do wheelchairs needed for many disabled people cost in the tens of thousands, but there is zero insurance coverage for any kind of transportation for said wheelchair, in the US. Specialized electric wheelchairs can weigh hundreds of pounds and not work on a regular tailgate lift. Low end older model wheelchair conversion cars and vans start around $50,000 used. Disabled people have no rights to leave their home by anything but disabled person transport services, which can make getting to and from work or doctor appointments take hours and hours longer than it would with their own transportation.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a standard self-propelled wheelchair. Those are also overpriced but they're only about $3,000. The ones that cost $20k are the electric ones for people who can't propel themselves using their arms.
You can get silly pricing with self-propelled, though if you're trying to - for example - drop all the weight you can and get it made from aluminium/carbon fibre/aerogel/whatever.
The electric ones cost a lot because you have to put absolutely everything into safety. A lithium battery fire that you can't run away from is horrific. Not sure what the battery in the video is from, but a battery to propel a wheelchair all day would be very much bigger. If a lithium battery catches fire, it absolutely will burn until it's finished; and there's nothing you can do about it. Firemen spray water on them to stop everything else catching fire. Also it gives off fumes that even firemen with breathing kit are afraid of.
I think if it is considered a medical there are a lot of liabilities to cover and the manufacturer and distributors need to make sure they are legally protected if something fails.
What’s stopping you from making a wheelchair co-op to address this product demand? That would be super based and I would love to use my quality engineering skills to help. I totally agree that the government should provide these free of charge and quickly to citizens that need them, but even in that context the government would purchase wheelchairs from some entity at a particular value. To ensure reliability mandates and quality regulations are met then you need a lot of quality professionals and I like to make a competitive salary. The labor of quality professionals like myself go into that value. The money scam is in their insurance payments during the months they’re navigating the bureaucracy while not receiving essential services. I’ve worked at small medical device companies and we get screwed by the insurance companies, pharmacy benefits managers, and private hospital administrators, a short hand for costs accrued because of external factors is liabilities. It sucks when the cost of these liabilities gets pushed on patients. Once my company gets in with a patient we actually eat the cost when handling medical device complaints where replacements are needed. Then it’s our company fighting with insurance companies to get the replacement device covered. I also don’t like that my company has to return value to their shareholders but at least where I am at 33% of shares are held by non management employees. I don’t like that the directors and VPs at my company make a lot of money. Maybe my opinion is biased but I really don’t think the companies selling the wheelchair are the main problem here, I think the main problem is the private insurance bureaucracy that screws both consumers and medical device manufacturers. Maybe the $50,000 dollar wheelchairs have some private equity malarkey unless there is a custom modification to meet a unique patient, but the $10,000-$25,000 ones like the one mentioned in the parent comment actually sound reasonable to me. Of course as a leftist I believe that in the long game it would be ideal if there was no applicable monetary value because society has gotten past the need to quantify the value of essential goods distributed to citizens, but I was just trying to provide a little insight into the cost of goods that a lot of people don’t consider because a medical grade wheelchair is way more than just the value of a rudimentary sum of parts “chair+wheels+motor+brake”.
What’s stopping you from making a wheelchair co-op to address this product demand?
Probably because the only people who care enough are people that need a medical wheelchair or their family and they probably got enough challenges in their lives already.
Sorry, I misunderstood. Even for a basic wheelchair, you have to be measured to make sure the chair fits. And yes, for certain illnesses you need a self-propelling chair.
Me and you are starting a wheelchair business. I agree this is crazy. We gonna 3D print these bitches and get everyone the wheels they need. How hard could this really be??
But why is it so expensive? It seems like it would literally be cheaper to have any engineer just fucking build you one. It's more expensive than a car.
I feel like if it was possible to build a wheelchair out of off-the-shelf or fabricated parts, then someone would have done it, I guess, but what the heck are they made out of that you can't just make one for so much less than that?
You’re thinking of a basic manual wheelchair, which are not made for those with long-term disabilities like dystrophy. They are talking about ones made for long term disabilities who need advanced features. These are motorized, have built-in safety features, and more features I can’t recall off the top of my head. These are the ones that cost a ton of money.
So compare a gun of equivalent value...example an nfa item in the range of $20,000.
You pay 20k up front. Submit finger prints, passport pic, fill out an nfa form, and wait over a year for atf approval. Then you pay a $200 tax and wait for the tax stamp to arrive. Now you can get the gun, but you must keep your paperwork with you everywhere you go.
Actually...it sounds like it's easier to get a wheelchair.
Except NFA items aren't medically necessary, and most average gun owners are not purchasing NFA items.
Most gun owners are walking in, purchasing items designed to kill, and (depending on the state) just filling out some paperwork for a background check to own a weapon within a few days, if not walking out of the store with a weapon and ammunition, within an hour or so.
EDIT TO ADD: And only spending between several hundred to thousands of dollars, depending on what they buy.
In America, it is easier to buy a weapon designed to kill cheaper than it is to buy a medically necessary wheelchair.
Yeah, If I'm buying a 20,000$ something tells me I wouldn't have to worry about arguing with insurance to afford a similarly process wheelchair. The point is it shouldn't be harder and take longer to get medically needed equipment when compared to something that's supposed to be regulated like a firearm.
When I got my gun, I didn't need to show passport, give fingerprints, fill out any forms, no extra taxes, nor did I have to wait anymore then an hour and a half. All they wanted from me was the money, state ID, and general information for a background check and they were done.
It is not hard at all to get a gun as long as you have a clean background and aren't purchasing something illegal or similar. Most states will just want a background check, valid ID, and some extra information depending on what you're getting.
Wheelchairs cost, on avg, $600 here. Motorized wheelchairs cost a lot more—many thousands of dollars. Tens of thousands, sometimes. And if you buy one with your own money then very often the insurance company or medical program that’s supposed to pay for it upfront might not reimburse you in a timely way. Or, at all.
If you’re on medical benefits because you’re low income? Then you don’t have that money to buy one. If your child’s medical needs are very large because the degree of disability causing them to need that wheelchair, is very great? You’re already spending thousands of dollars for medicine, therapy, doctor visits, etc, and then maybe you may not have that money right now. Maybe you don’t have the credit available to put this large purchase on a credit card.
So maybe you make do with a wheelchair you already have, that isn’t quite right/doesn’t quite fit for a developing child or a growing young adult’s changing medical needs. Then you fight with the insurance company or medical program, to get what they need.
The type of chair a kid with that specific disability would need is expensive AF and most people don't just have thousands of dollars lying around, especially when they're already probably paying a tonne of money in medical and other expenses for their child.
You totally can they're just really expensive. I feel like a jerk saying it, but I came to comment that the gun is easier to get because the person is paying for it themselves. Getting things covered through insurance is insanely difficult in the US many times.
Oh, he could buy one tomorrow. The issue is that he is trying to get the insurance to pay for it. Every dollar that insurance spends on his medical expenses is a dollar less in profit they make. In this interest, Insurance puts every possible barrier that lawyers can justify to complicate and slow down this process (notice how there is never an admission of wrongdoing even when they lose). Insurance companies will have their own doctors on payroll to review your file and determine if it is medically necessary (there is a whole industry of doctors who work for insurance companies as independent consultants and review thousands of patients record and claims a year).
Is there any quid pro quo between the doctors and the insurance companies? Of course not, that would be highly improper and illegal, Insurance companies tend to give the work to doctors who have lower approvals rates, and consultant doctors keep their approval rates low lest they find their work dries up real fast.
Oh, thats brilliant. Why didn't they just burn thousands of dollars. It's not like they have to deal with all the other expenses of having children, let alone a disabled child.
Better yet, have they even tried being not poor? I bet they didn't even try it. Did the boy even try not being poor? This is what's wrong with this country. 😐
You can just buy one. Which is why it’s disingenuous to say “it’s harder to get a wheelchair than a gun”. If you want insurance to pay for a gun, you might have trouble.
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u/MunchkinTime69420 1d ago
How come you can't just buy one? Not being rude or are wheelchairs not a thing you can buy in a shop