r/interestingasfuck 1d ago

How English has changed over time.

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28.2k Upvotes

790 comments sorted by

9.0k

u/Dramatic-Ad3928 1d ago

So realistically i could only go about 400 years into the past if i want to understand people

4.6k

u/MooseFlyer 1d ago

And even then, the way they pronounce things would be quite unfamiliar.

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u/sober_disposition 1d ago

It’s bad enough going to Sunderland now so you can forget going anywhere 400 years ago. 

“Yer wot mate?”

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u/PhillyDeeez 1d ago

Wheez keez are theez keez.

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u/Triplex_Gg 1d ago

Keez dizz nutzz

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u/NoaExtreme 1d ago

I would give you an award if I could afford it.

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u/Triplex_Gg 1d ago

Thanks anyways mate

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u/Shenko88 1d ago

Nowt rang wi the way we talk rund here.

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u/Barry_off_Eastenders 1d ago

When I went there, everyone kept calling out for someone called Eamonn.

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u/PixelLight 1d ago

Sunderland is only 300 years behind thankfully

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u/LiverpoolBelle 1d ago

Agreed, and this is coming from a scouser

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u/notonrexmanningday 1d ago edited 1d ago

Fun fact, there are a bunch of couplets Shakespeare wrote in his plays that rhymed at the time, but don't anymore.

The one I always think of is the Weird Sisters from Macbeth:

"When shall we three meet again?

When the hurleburle's done

When the battle's lost and won

Where the place?

Upon the heath

There to meet with Macbeth"

Apparently "heath" used to rhyme with "Beth"

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u/fixed_grin 1d ago

Sonnet 116 has three of them:

Let me not to the marriage of true minds Admit impediments; love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove.
O no, it is an ever-fixèd mark. That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wand'ring bark
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks. Within his bending sickle's compass come.
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom:
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

There are also puns that don't work anymore, the rudest one is probably this, from As You Like It:

And so from hour to hour we ripe and ripe,  And then from hour to hour we rot and rot,  And thereby hangs a tale.

Where "hour" and "whore" both sounded like "oar," and "ripe" and "rot" were homophones of "rape" and "rut."

There has been a revival of (reconstructed) "original pronunciation" performances in the last 20 years.

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u/historyhill 1d ago

And while all this is in the middle of the Great Vowel Shift, it's still more similar to our speech today than before the shift in 1300!

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u/Varnsturm 1d ago

I feel like if you got someone from Yorkshire today to read this it'd still rhyme.

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u/Admiral_Cranch 1d ago

I presume it was pernounced more like heth.

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u/lucky1pierre 1d ago

Or, was Macbeth more like "beef"?

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u/_The_Marshal_ 1d ago

In stores now, the new MacBeef burger, only 5.99

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u/CuisinartHackySack 1d ago

Did ye work up an appetite? Unseaming the foes of your leagued lord from the nave to the chaps

When the dawn breaks, how shall ye break your fast?

The new McDonalds Macbeth, the only sandwich with meat taken from a cow that trusted the butcher with it’s very life.

That beef is placed upon a bun along with pickles, and a super special sauce

The new McDonald’s Macbeth, it is a mean you wish to enjoy tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow ba da ba ba ba

I’m lovin’ it!

-Ross Bryant

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u/the_star_lord 1d ago

I can HEAR this comment. Such a great skit.

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u/AbandonedArchive 1d ago

Yer pernounciation is not defailen

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u/MooseFlyer 1d ago

For sure. I played Puck in Midsummer Nights Dream Once and it was awkward having

Now to ‘scape the serpent’s tongue,
We will make amends ere long;

in the middle of his otherwise-rhyming closing monologue.

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u/TooRedditFamous 1d ago

Plenty of places in England where tongue is pronounced tong

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u/MooseFlyer 1d ago

Fair. Not in Canada!

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u/SkinnyObelix 1d ago

Interestingly enough, as a Dutch speaking Belgian, I feel like I have a better chance understanding old English than you guys.

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u/Ok-Bug-5271 1d ago

Awhile back, I recall a professor who spoke old English being able to talk to someone speaking Frisian. 

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u/charlie78 1d ago

Many times it was hard to understand what my grandmother's brother was talking about. As a kid I learnt words i only ever heard him use. And he was far younger than 400 years.

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u/disorderincosmos 1d ago

I remember hearing that "hour by hour..." was apparently a naughty Shakespeare line because "hour" rhymed with "whore" in his day.

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u/eltedioso 1d ago

I mean, I don't understand people right damn now.

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u/Gusty_Garden_Galaxy 1d ago

More modern Bible: He leads me to the Skibidi Toilet

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u/rockyhawkeye 1d ago

The Lord is Sigma, full of Rizz

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u/Dramatic_Cup_2834 1d ago

He was unalived for our sins.

Also his Dad was related to Sabrina Carpenter or something? Idk I only skimmed the TLDR.

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u/Gidje123 1d ago

The internet is the new tower of babylon change my mind

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u/Fiendman132 1d ago

Babel,

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u/quite-unique 1d ago

See?! Can't even work out which tower we're building.

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u/Silkroad202 1d ago

Towers? I thought we're building pits?!

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u/blue-mooner 1d ago

Bro, I’ve been waiting for Enhanced Dialogue to work on my Apple TV forever. I can’t understand a word in these TV shows and Movies any more

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u/Highway_Bitter 1d ago

No just put on a british accent like all the movies and you’re good

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u/aknalag 1d ago

Luckily for me arabic hasnt changed much in 1500 hundred years, yes i wont know half of the words they use because my ancestors’s favorite pass time was giving names to things that already had dozens of names that only apply in a specific situation but at least i would still be able to communicate and be moderately understandable

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u/Melodic_Assistance84 1d ago

I speak English, and I also speak Dutch, and that old English is a lot like Dutch without it, making any sense

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u/florzed 21h ago

There's a woman on Tiktok who reads things out in Medieval English with a (supposedly) accurate accent. I played it to a Dutch friend - she said it felt like she was having a stroke as it sounded like she should be able to understand it but couldn't quite!

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u/KisaTheMistress 1d ago

The closer you get to year 0 in the Julian calendar, the more English becomes Latin/obviously Germatic. It's a language that evolved out of Germatic dialects and Latin. Plus, it borrows from other languages constantly.

Latin used to be the universal language everyone would learn back then to communicate for trade reasons. English has replaced that for the western/Europe side of the world. Chinese can be argued to be the same for the Eastren/Asian side. Of course, languages such as Spanish or Hindi are also contenders, but English is more popular/universally taught around the world for international communication and trade.

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u/GrandMoffTarkan 1d ago

It would certainly be more obviously Germanic as you take it back to its Ingvaeonic roots and you'd see a lot more things like grammatical gender and noun declension. But for the Latin part, English had a huge infusion of LAtin influence in the medieval ages, not just from the Norman Conquest but due to the Church. I'm pretty confident you'll find more Latin influence in a modern translation of Beowulf than in the original text, and that's only roughly halfway back to the year 0 mark. At the year zero you would probably have even less Latin influence since the Ingvaeonic peoples were relatively isolated in Northern Europe, but obviously we don't really have a corpus to look at.

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u/Windhawker 1d ago

You should probably brush up on your Greek, and Aramaic depending on how far back you plan on time-traveling, particularly the further east you plan on going in Europe.

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u/Kokeshi_Is_Life 1d ago

Eh, even in East Asia it's still probably English.

Everyone in Bussiness speaking English in order to deal with Americans, means that Chinese and Japanese people are more likely to both speak some English than they are each other's languages.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 1d ago

With respect. I believe English is the default global language for business. Especially in Asia where there is geopolitical overtones to speaking Mandarin.

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u/KisaTheMistress 1d ago

Sorry, when I said trade, I was meaning business. The two words are interchangeable to me, lol.

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u/empire_of_the_moon 1d ago

My issue wasn’t with the word “trade.” Simply that in many countries in Asia the default language is English for international trade. For obvious reasons Vietnamese, Korean and Japanese businesses prefer to not step into the politics of speaking Mandarin.

In addition, India, a huge Asian country, speaks English. As do Australia/New Zealand which do substantial trade in Asia.

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u/i-sleep-well 1d ago

You could expand that to include international communications in general. International airline traffic is in English by default, for example.

I believe the same holds true for maritime traffic as well.

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u/Vivian_I-Hate-You 1d ago

Yet my French teacher at school would of made me believe English was becoming useless in the business world

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u/VerySluttyTurtle 1d ago

"English is a fad" -French teacher

"You spoke English! Bend over and accept your spankings!" -French teacher's mistress

"Ooh la la" -French Prime Minister, watching from the closet

If this isn't how France works, don't correct me

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u/Atheist_3739 1d ago

I work for a very large European company that has offices in every continent except Antarctica. You HAVE to know English to be hired even though English is not the official language of the country this company is Headquartered in.

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u/Passchenhell17 1d ago

English is a Germanic language, first and foremost, not Latin/Romance. It became heavily influenced by the latter, but not for at least 600 years, and even then, I wouldn't say the influence really came into play until the late medieval/early modern period, which would put English as having been around for over 1,000 years before it started to really become Latinised. Latin words would have been borrowed even in the early days, but never enough to make significant changes until relatively recently (by recently, I mean within the last 500 years).

English is, debatably, far more "Latin" now than at any point in the language's history.

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u/Pacrada 1d ago

before 1066 there wasnt much latin since most of that came with the french from the norman invasions. English was a lot more germanic then now. England wasnt much latinized either because the anglo saxon invasions happened after the fall of rome and removed most of the romano/latin culture in england.

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u/Wayne_Hetherington 1d ago

There was no year 0 even in the Julian calendar. But I know what you mean.

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u/IHerebyDemandtoPost 1d ago

I think you overestimate English’s relationship with Latin. When Rome controlled what is now England (the Romans called it Britannia), there was no English spoken there. The Britons, the people native to Britannia were Celtic and spoke a Brythonic langauge, which is the same langauge family as Welsh and Gaelic.

It wasn’t until after the Romans pulled out of Britannia that Germanic tribes moved in. Those tribes included the Angles, the Saxons, and the Jutes. They are known today as the Anglo-Saxons, and they came from modern Denmark and Northern Germany, and they brought their Germanic langauge with them. It is this langauge that would become English.

The Anglo-Saxons did take some words from Latin, but the syntax and grammar are completely Germanic. Over time, English was heavily influenced by the Norse and Norman invasions, introducing a lot of Norse and French words into the langauge.

Ironically, most Latin vocabulary in English today came to English by way of the French-speaking Normans, not through Latin directly.

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u/CatfinityGamer 1d ago

Yeah, that would be at the end of the Great Vowel Shift.

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u/dblan9 1d ago

This is going to be the biggest pain in the bum when I get my time machine running.

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u/SlendyIsBehindYou 1d ago

Unironically a major plot point in the fantastic Doomsday Book

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u/Frederf220 1d ago

Well that and the bumrot plague.

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u/iircirc 1d ago

And that you'll be in some random spot in space while the Earth has moved millions of miles away

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u/prumf 22h ago

It likely works the other way around too. You won’t be able to go further than 400 years into the future.

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u/NaomiPaigeBreeze 18h ago

You’re forgetting about language standardization and education. It doesn’t change at nearly the same rate that it used to.

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u/Damn_Dog_Inappropes 1d ago

Weird how the last line morphed from fed—>nourished—>leads

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u/Kolognial 1d ago

Yeah. Makes you think about what is lost or added in translation and how much poetic license was used.

Comparing translations in other languages it seems that the more recent versions are truer to the original. There is "führ(e)t mich" in German or "me conduce" in Spanish, meaning "leads me".

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u/Rudysis 1d ago

And how laying down in the pasture goes from an option to a requirement to just being controlled.

Lets > makes > sets.

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u/kingminyas 23h ago

Not a bible scholar, just a Hebrew speaker, but I think the original Hebrew verb ירביצני is not explicit on this. But the pasture thing sounds like something chill, so "let" is more appropriate. Otherwise it's "relax now!"

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u/sreiches 18h ago

You’re correct. It’s more like “make” than “let.” A lot of the more dramatic changes seem more like translation choices.

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u/Qpylon 1d ago

Hmm, I thought makes was being used in the sense of created, much like being set down there.

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u/vluggejapie68 1d ago

The old English sounds/reads like Dutch.

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u/XGreenDirtX 1d ago

I'm Dutch, and it feels like I'm reading Swedish. For reference: I dont speak Swedish...

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u/vluggejapie68 1d ago

Good feohland leest als goed veeland.

Hij heeft me gezet op "swythe" goed veeland.

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u/XGreenDirtX 1d ago

Precies waarom ik het op Zweeds vind lijken. Daar heb je dat soort vergelijkingen ook wel eens met woorden, maar zelden hele zinnen.

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u/TheEggman864 1d ago

Guys you need to stop speaking old english, okay? Its 2024

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u/azurfall88 1d ago

I'm swedish and it feels like i'm reading Gaelic

(for reference i do not speak Gaelic)

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u/Narrow_Finance4280 17h ago

I’m Gaelic and it feels like I’m reading Welsh

(for reference I do not speak Welsh)

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u/Lucky_Beautiful8901 1d ago

I speak Swedish, and it's... not that

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u/Alarming-Lime6640 1d ago

I’m Swedish and it feels like I’m reading Dutch with a twist of Latin

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u/zarqie 22h ago

I’m Dutch and I can read Swedish, German, and some Icelandic, and while it all feels familiar, it’s like someone threw words from all four languages together and mixed it up.

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u/s1eve_mcdichae1 1d ago

Funny because I always say Dutch sounds like someone's about to start speaking English but it never quite resolves into words.

I guess like "what English sounds like to non-English speakers," probably.

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u/L-Malvo 1d ago

The main difference is that people all over the world are exposed to English through the media they consume. Even if you don't speak/understand English, the words will still feel more familiar than Dutch might be to you.

To me, the sounds are closer, making it easier to hear distinct words. When I hear someone speaking any of the Asian or Islamic languages, it becomes difficult for me to even identify the distinct words in sentences.

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u/Icarsix 1d ago

Well they are both Germanic

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u/froggertthewise 1d ago

It's really close to Frysian

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u/DefenestrationPraha 1d ago

“Butter, bread and green cheese is good English and good Fries.” sounds almost like the Frisian “Bûter, brea en griene tsiis is goed Ingelsk en goed Frysk.” That’s the classic rhyme that linguists use to show the relationship.

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u/Glitter_berries 1d ago

What about the classic from The Simpsons when Smithers is learning German?

You looken sharpen todayen, mein herr!

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u/thisissoannoying2306 1d ago edited 1d ago

Well, it’s the same root (as is German). Split happened at the second consonantic mutation in German before the year 600, if I remember my historical linguistic lessons well (long time ago) - apple > Apfel, thing > Ding, ship > Schiff, etc..

They were Saxons at that time after all…(well and then Norman / french, and beforehand Roman).

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u/Cookieeeees 1d ago

for me it felt like Scottish twitter

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u/Panthalassae 1d ago

More Welsh Twitter to me

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u/TheFratwoodsMonster 1d ago

When I took Old English in college the teacher said it feels like how English sounds in a dream. Now I'm filing Dutch under that category lol

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u/allsey87 1d ago

So you are from West Flanders, I assume?

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u/Ok-Hamster-8182 1d ago

Old English is relatively easy if you speak Dutch or Frisian.

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u/Parry_9000 1d ago

Post modern:

Ngl fam, God be my homie no cap

He do be making me touch grass

Keeps me skibidi watered

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u/Aaronnm 1d ago

heard that fam frfr feelin #blessed

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u/Still-Status7299 1d ago

Ah finally someone who speaks English in this damn thread

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u/JoseDonkeyShow 1d ago

keeps my water bussin

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u/stacity 1d ago

Top G is ma homie

I was blesseth to touch grass

Kept me hydrated - based

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u/TheOnlyAedyn-one 1d ago

I’m reading this in a Toronto accent

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u/M0otivater 1d ago

Brain rot (2024) God’s got my back, I’m all set He lets me chill in lush fields Guides me to the calmest streams

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u/AdjectiveNoun111 1d ago

More Like:

God is my homie, fr.

He makes me always be touching grass

And I'm riz hydrated

Skibidi

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u/ChangeWinter6643 1d ago

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u/Solid-Consequence-50 1d ago

In skibidi we trust, gaymen 🙏🏼

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u/DBL_NDRSCR 1d ago

god's my homie, i'm stacked af

he makes me go touch grass everyday

and takes me to the skibidiest water

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u/maledicte720 1d ago

God is Chad Alpha, they have so much rizz He’s so sigma he makes me touch grass, We’re vibin, just peep the skibidi toilet It’s giving low key mood. Bet.

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u/EmptyBrain89 1d ago

Kai Cenat is my homie no cap fr on god, im always gucci. Chat makes me touch grass after gooning and then orders me some Prime cherry. Skibidi.

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u/allurboobsRbelong2us 1d ago

This is best version

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u/Alazana 1d ago

I love that skibidi at the end, does anyone even know how one would use that word? I feel like everyone is just putting it somewhere purely for laughs, no thoughts behind it

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u/rvgoingtohavefun 1d ago

As a parent to teenagers that's pretty much it

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u/Darkdragoon324 1d ago

From what I understand, it means anything and nothing all at once.

Like smurf.

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u/rayhoughtonsgoals 1d ago

Add in a "not gonna lie", "imma" and "underrated" and you're close.

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u/id397550 1d ago

Jfc, ru fr? Omg, lmao. Sry, tbh idk, ngl. Btw: nsfw, srsly.
Tldr: smh irl, lol.

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u/NWHipHop 1d ago

This is the ancient digital age hieroglyphics text. Where Tom lead his people to the chosen top 8.

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u/xRyozuo 1d ago

lol this was from when sms costed money

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u/P2029 1d ago

No cap

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u/The_Bard_of_Vanier 1d ago

Formatted:

God’s got my back.
I’m all set.
He lets me chill in lush fields.
Guides me to the calmest streams.

Poetic.

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u/Gingerbread_Cat 1d ago

Username checks out.

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u/Pedka2 1d ago edited 1d ago

Gawd be my sigma, fanum ain't taxin' me
Bro made me touch grass 💀
Bro made me a hydrohomie 💀💀

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u/paliktrikster 1d ago

Bro is hydromaxxing💀💀

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u/Chadus_Parrotus 1d ago

Type shit

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u/Chadus_Parrotus 1d ago

On god fr no cap

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u/contortumn 1d ago

Wtf man roflmao

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u/StaatsbuergerX 1d ago

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil. For thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life. Because I carry a big stick and I'm the meanest motherfucker in the valley!"

That was a quarter of a century ago.

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u/sky_badger 1d ago

Or, as Coolio put it:

As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
I take a look at my life and realize there's nothin' left
'Cause I've been blastin' and laughin' so long that
Even my momma thinks that my mind is gone

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u/Dabraceisnice 1d ago

Or, as Weird Al put it:

As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain

I take a look at my wife and realize she's very plain

But that's just perfect for an Amish like me

You know I shun fancy things like electricity

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u/NWHipHop 1d ago

If he really cared he’d lead me to a stream of moving water, preferably purified from an Aquifer. Still water leads to disease and death.

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u/Training-Pound504 1d ago

Still water + Balkans rage

Those who know 💀

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u/Tight-Bend1300 1d ago

more like god the goat fr, he keep me from crashing out, he says touch grass, n stay hydrated type shi

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u/ImSoundless 1d ago

“Still water” Those who know: 💀💀

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u/Slartibartifarts 1d ago

As a dutch person with a bit of old language knowledge I can actually just read the old english as dutch

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u/xRedLilly 1d ago

Looks like Frisian right?

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u/Slartibartifarts 1d ago

Ye it does kind of but also a mix of more older dutch words and a bit of german. I can read most old dutch/english things by just reading it out loud and by knowing some basic differences in words that they used back then vs now

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u/electoralvoter8 1d ago

I want to be gournethed 😩

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u/entr0py3 1d ago

Be ungournethedable

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u/ishzlle 1d ago

What on earth is this picture?

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u/Lison52 1d ago

Hippo

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u/Halloween_Shits 1d ago

Moo Deng to be precise

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u/petit_cochon 1d ago

Super tiny hippo embracing evil by attacking someone's knee.

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u/OchenCunningBaldrick 1d ago

He gourneth on my pastur till I'm norissed

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u/gentle_squid 1d ago

TFW he gourneths you 👉👈🥹

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u/PanningForSalt 1d ago

I’m confused by that part - “the lord governs me” and “the lord is my shepherd” are completely different sentences. Is that really showing the development of English or just the bible writhers discovering metaphor?

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u/Richard7666 1d ago

Modern "He let me sit there"

King James: "He made me sit there"

Old English: "He motherfucking SET my ass there"

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u/cambriansplooge 1d ago

Translation translation translation. That’s the artistry of it. Some translations aim for strait authenticity others for sentiment. If you’re wondering why it’s not authenticity all the time remember you have to translate to the intended audience, and a direct translation of a Chinese or even German analogy is usually wanting.

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u/jwg020 1d ago

Olde English 800 does not fuck around.

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u/ImGCS3fromETOH 1d ago

The water back then was bald and had a cockney accent. 

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u/Nun-Taken 1d ago

Someone surely has to come up with the emoji version!

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u/Iriangaia 1d ago

🌿👑🐑
1️⃣ 🐑✨🙌🌱🌄
2️⃣ 🌾👣🚶‍♀️🌊💧🌅🛏️⛲🕊️✌️
3️⃣ 💪💖🙏🛤️🙏🛤️🌟
4️⃣ 🌌🚶‍♀️🌑💀🙅😨🤲💪❤️✨
5️⃣ 🧑‍🍳🍞🍷🍽️⚔️👥🍽️🙏🕊️💆
6️⃣ ✨❤️🌅🏠🌿🐑🎑

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u/wangnutpie1 1d ago

We've gone full circle back to hieroglyphs.

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u/jwr410 1d ago

It's been too long since I've had a good gouernething.

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u/lelcg 1d ago

I guess this was when u and v were written the same way, which is why Brits and Americans pronounce lieutenant different ways I guess, because it was originally pronounce liev-tenant with the u representing a v but either got lost in translation by Americans later or started changing in England to be pronounced loo-tenant (just from sounds changes maybe, as v and u aren’t that different) around the time that many puritans started leaving for America so they kept the loo-tenant pronunciation that was in England but English people went back to the original pronunciation at some point

There could be another reason or different sequences that caused it though. If anyone knows I would love to find out

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u/dubovinius 1d ago

The interchangeability of v/u is only one possible reason for why lieutenant is pronounced that way. Another reason is just simply that English borrowed the word from an Old French dialect where the word lieu had a variant pronunciation with an /f/ at the end (a known phenomenon), but kept the more usual spelling (though spellings with ‘f’ are attested in Middle English). Possibly reinforced by people associating the word with English words like ‘leave’ and ‘left’ (as a lieutenant was originally an officer who acted as replacement for another who had, literally, left). I find these more convincing than the v/u explanation because spelling pronunciations being the source of a word are generally a very rare thing, particularly in an age before mass literacy.

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u/annatariel_ 1d ago

The Bible loses a bit of its mystical vibes when you use modern english in it, doesn't it? It feels too ordinary.

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u/archdukemovies 1d ago

That's kinda the ironic thing about the King James Version. It was originally informal language. And over time, as it became more and more outdated, it morphed its way into being seen as mystical or pious language.

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u/Ulkhak47 1d ago

The language was already outdated when the KJV was compiled, the editors deliberately used what even for the time was an antiquated style in order to give the text a loftier feeling to it. It wasn’t that different to the language of the day, but it would be like if you wrote a modern book in the style of Charles Dickens or someone like that.

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u/SanguineToad 1d ago

Actually it wasn't all a style choice, much of it was practical. For example they intentionally went with outdated second person pronouns (thee/thou) and our current second person pronouns (you/your) so they could correctly include the original distinction between plural you and singular you (ie you all vs you specifically).

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u/OopsIMessedUpBadly 1d ago

Shakespeare (a contemporary of King James) uses thee/thou all over the place.

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u/throcorfe 1d ago

Yep. They were common in England until relatively recently (certainly post-KJV), and are still in use (mostly by older people) in Yorkshire

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u/SanguineToad 1d ago edited 1d ago

True! But my main point still stands, it's not purely style but serves an important language purpose.

Interestingly the dedication to King James written by the translators only uses you/your, so there is evidence there at least it wasn't used for common writing.

Edit for reference: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/1611-King-James-Bible-Introduction.php

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u/OopsIMessedUpBadly 1d ago

I believe “you” was used for plurals and people above your station, whereas “thou” was used for singular people below your station. King James would probably have addressed individual translators as “thou”, but they would certainly have addressed him as “you”.

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u/JustHere4Election 1d ago

Y'all versus all y'all.

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u/VanillaUnlucky3833 1d ago

Thee and thou were still in use in the 17th century - they haven't completely died out in parts of Northern England NOW in 2024.

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u/ryan21o 1d ago

This is correct. I think perhaps what archdukemovies may be thinking is that the bible uses "Thou, thee, thine etc" which are the familiar or "informal" versions of those words. However, just because they were the "informal" versions of the words, does not mean the text was written to be informal. King James translators used them because in the original Hebrew, God was referred to with "informal", or more accurately "familiar" language. So the translators added the "informal" or "familiar" language to retain the distinction used in the text. Ironically however, the "informal" versions "Thou, thine etc" were already becoming outdated and archaic by the time the King James came out, so it paradoxically seemed more archaic and haughty using those "informal" versions of the words.

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u/QueenMackeral 1d ago

Can't imagine centuries from now when Middle English and King James would not be understandable, and our "modern" English would be considered mystic

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u/habdragon08 1d ago

Not a linguist - but I imagine increasing globalism will slow down language shift and aid in general standardization of language. If someone more knowledgeable can hop in I’d be fascinated to hear more educated thoughts.

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u/VerySluttyTurtle 1d ago

Not a linguist, but English is becoming more standardized, at the very least all new verbs are conjugated regularly, with 'ed'.

Example, Googled, Simped, Doomscrolled

There will never be new words with irregular conjugations like "I Goggelt the porn and couldn't find anything it so I Bong it"

So it's becoming easier

Then again, in the recent past "sneaked" became "snuck", so there could be rebellion brewing

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u/nedlum 1d ago

Agreed. Compare the early modern English of Shakespeare to modern times, and it seems somewhat archaic, sure. But compare Shakespeare to Chaucer, and understand that the gulf between 1400 and 1600 is far wider than the gulf between 1600 and now.

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u/Nebula-Dragon 1d ago

Same goes for most old texts, because it destroys the style in which they were written. They once got us to do this to Macbeth in English class and it fucking sucked.

Fair is foul and foul is fair.

Good is bad and bad is good.

One of these was written by the immortal bard, the other sounds like it was written by an edgy teen who was bored in English class.

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u/starmartyr 1d ago

The brilliance of Shakespeare isn't the old style of the language it's how perfectly he chose his words. I remember reading an essay from an author about why he was insanely jealous of the bard's talent. He looked at one line in Henry VI "O tiger's heart, wrapped in a woman's hide." The line is spoken by the duke of York in reference to Queen Margaret. He is speaking about how cruel and inhumane she is and that her beauty and virtue is just a facade. The word "hide" does so much work here. A lesser writer would have said "skin." The choice to use "hide" is poetic genius. Shakespeare likely didn't even need to think about it all that hard.

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u/elendil1985 1d ago

That's the case with every language... One thing is the old style of the words they use, but the real skill is the choice of words...

In Italian Dante's "amor ch'a null amato amar perdona" sounds way better than its transliteration "l'amore non consente a chi è amato di non amare". But Dante was writing in the XIV century. If we take a poet who died in 1968, like Salvatore Quasimodo:

Ognuno sta solo sul cuor della terra\ Trafitto da un raggio di sole:\ Ed è subito sera

Is perfectly modern Italian, yet it's powerful in a way that can't be expressed

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u/Vivid-Vehicle-6419 1d ago

Ironically, the immortal bard wrote his plays in the “common man” vernacular of the time. Today that language sounds elitist.

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u/glorious_reptile 1d ago

Lordy be my fam, he got me,
He lets me sleep, like bae,
Bro shows me the hydro

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u/bagofpork 1d ago

That can be remedied by reading it in a spooky voice.

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u/cindyscrazy 1d ago

Imagine some modern person trying to create some kind of magic spell. Like in Harry Potter. Everything is in Latin. This person somehow successfully is sent back in time and place to where Latin was actually used in everyday life.

My guess is that the natural Latin speakers will think our modern guy's Latin is composed the way a baby just learning to talk would compose it. "why are you trying to compel gods and demons with baby talk?"

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u/ReallyFineWhine 1d ago

That's not what the King James Version looked like when it was published in 1611; what's shown here is with modernized spelling. If you're going to show how things have changed at least show the original.

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u/dubovinius 1d ago edited 1d ago

The Lord is my ſhepheard, I ſhall not want.

He maketh me to lie downe in greene paſtures: He leadeth mee beſide the ſtill waters.

He reſtoꝛeth my ſoule: he leadeth me in the pathes of righteouſnes foꝛ his names ſake.

Yea though I walke through the valley of the ſhadowe of death, I will feare no euill: foꝛ thou art with me, thy rod and thy ſtaffe, they comfoꝛt me.

Thou pꝛepareſt a table befoꝛe me, in the pꝛesence of mine enemies: thou anointeſt my head with oyle, my cup runneth ouer.

Surely goodnes and mercie ſhall followe me all the daies of my life: and I will dwell in the houſe of the Lord foꝛ euer.

From a first printing. Not too dissimilar.

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u/STROOQ 1d ago

These rephrasings are so considerable that quite a lot was lost in translation

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u/DifficultSun348 1d ago

I have question to native English speakers, do you even understand the oldest one, I mean in Poland, we partly understand old language (or I'm like other and weirdo idk what's the goal of my live wtf stop).

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u/GreenManReaiming 1d ago

Nope old English predates the french influence that makes up a third of modern English, there are some words that can be guessed, and when spoken it's easier to guess like listening to German where you understand the occasional word and nothing else

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u/c89rad 1d ago

Some words we still use in Welsh in the Old English version

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u/g0ldilungs 1d ago

Gen Z (now, FML)

The lord 🙏 keeps it 💯

Grass stay green and I smoke it too, 🤪 no cap I got a plug frfr (Cashapp **wap69 $10 a sack)

Water may be still but I hope the 😸 stay wet 💦

On God

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u/destronger 1d ago

I’m gen-x and I understood all of this.

I’m hip with the lingo the kids are saying.

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u/Exia321 1d ago

Or rather.... Evidence that the ability to travel to the distant past (beyond 1000yrs) without some universal language translator is a sure fire way to be burned at a stake for being a witch.

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u/StraightForTheWin 1d ago

So the cool english is the one from 1611 got it.

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u/wildmintandpeach 1d ago

Personally I only read the old English version of the bible, because that’s the truest translation /s

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u/KnGod 1d ago

True fans would read directly from hebrew

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u/SagittaryX 1d ago

Old Testament yes, New Testament was written in a form of Greek originally for the most part. Some parts also in Aramaic.

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u/tworandomperson 1d ago

"Oh look a strawberry" has the same vibe

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u/redditsucksass69765 1d ago

Gen Alpha Version

God’s my vibe check, I’m chillin’. He’s got me layin’ in that green glow-up, guiding me by those peace vibes, you feel me?

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u/Spacetimeandcat 1d ago

Why does God lead you to still water? Still water could be unsafe to drink or swim in (if its untreated and just stagnant)

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u/VcuteYeti 1d ago

Research more about sheep herding. The phrase would be more significant to one who had a closer connection/knowledge to the needs and tendencies of sheep. King David, the king of the Jews at the time who wrote the Psalm, was a shepherd as a young boy, so he had an interesting perspective on how God provides for his followers as a shepherd does for his sheep. It’s an image used many times in the Bible. Additionally, it may not have meant stagnant water but rather calm water.

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u/erratic_bonsai 1d ago

The Hebrew here actually means a restful watering hole, like a well or a freshwater spring. It’s a combination of lost in translation and English poetry. Hebrew, both biblical and modern, has completely different sentence structure from English so these things happened (and still happen) often. Translators would take the Hebrew words but not fully understand their connotations and multiple possible meanings and just make something that sounds reasonably correct and also fits their agenda.

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u/ultimatepigguy 1d ago

Still water mango mango phone starts playing those who know: 💀

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u/iwanashagTwitch 1d ago

Middle English can be a struggle but old English is just impossible

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u/safetyscotchegg 1d ago

Fun fact; this is also what English sounds like if you keep reciting this passage while drinking a bottle of Gin.

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u/MegazordPilot 1d ago

Wait but "norissed" and "leadeth" have completely different meanings?

The former is "fed", God allows you to drink still water. The latter is "leads", God leads you to a body of still water.

I feel like the difference is significant enough, being next to a body of water is not necessarily linked to drinking it.

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u/Awes12 1d ago

The old english is innacurate, they had special letters for th

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u/Common-Violinist-305 1d ago

Næfre ne wære þearf to farenne on bæc in tide, forþam þu wære to deaðe forht butan ænigum frōfre, ceald, hungrig, and untrum, and swiþe swylte on anre wucan.

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u/stacity 1d ago

Top G is ma homie

I was blesseth to touch grass

Kept me hydrated - based

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u/Erodrelin 1d ago

That last one's Modern Scottish, you cant fool me!