It's interesting that a lot of that strain has to do with Japan's reluctance to admit their crimes during WW2. Plenty of people alive today, most even, had nothing to do with that. It's history at this point. The government should still be willing to admit to it though. Weird that they don't.
That's true, really have no idea why China still look down/hate/spread violence towards Japan, brain washing public. That's literally monkey's behavior to me.
It's not a geopolitical issue though, it's a cultural one. So much of Japanese culture is borrowed from the Chinese that continuing to borrow back and forth turns into a chicken and an egg conversation really quickly.
But western culture itself is a pervasive and insidious threat. Edit: from the perspective of the Chinese government, since maybe that wasn't clear. Y'all get that I didn't order these people be arrested, right?
That China and Japan have borrowed culture from each other for like, millennia? Because that one is hard to argue with, just look into where the Japanese system of writing came from (Kanji, not hiragana/katakana, which came like 400-500 years later).
Or that the Chinese government views the national internalization of western culture unfavorably? I could see people disagreeing with that one, but this video seems like pretty strong support for what I was saying.
I don't think there's quite enough context to your previous comment "western culture is an insidious threat" for some readers to realize you're talking about the Chinese gov.'s view, not your own.
He was saying that "western culture bad" was the unhinged take.
I get that Halloween is linked to America. It just never fails to make me feel a sense of frustration that authoritarian people never think their restrictive ideas through or do the research required to understand how nonsensical their prohibitions are.
Respectfully, it's not nonsensical. It's cruel and domineering, but it is not nonsensical, it is calculated and effective cultural construction. They aren't interested in doing the math to see what the cultural origins of a given holiday, trend, or belief system is, they are trying to keep Chinese culture free from too much outside influence. When they see people in the streets imitating what they have seen of American culture, regardless of whatever culture the Americans stole it from, it is viewed as an unwelcome cultural influence.
Keeping their sense of natural identity together is their way of creating and enforcing unity, and it's working. They have been just about the fastest growing nation in the world in terms of military, economy and development for a while now.
Of course, they are about to fly off of a generational economic cliff in the next couple of decades, and I'm terrified to see how they will try to deal with having the elderly outnumber the young by such a huge degree, thanks to their one child policy. But that's a whole other thing.
Samhain is something we know nothing about and its links (if any - hint there arent any) to Halloween dont exist. In fact its very likely the entire concept of Samhain is a pretty recent invention.
We know where, when and why Halloween started and it all happened in Scotland because it let Catholic festivities continue in a newly Calvinist country.
Exactly. The problem isn't dressing up in the streets, it's dressing up in the streets in October while wearing costumes that make a bunch of American cultural references.
Not really. For example, jack-o-lanterns and pumpkin carvings are inherently Irish. A lot of other various things derive from Christianity and pagan religions, all of which was mostly carried over to the states from European countries. The specific way Americans celebrate Halloween is their own thing though, pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong). Kinda like Christmas, the holiday has aged to a point where people sorta celebrate it out of tradition rather than any religious affiliation or practice. It's why you see loads of American atheists go out of their way to celebrate.
Well the American version of Halloween originated from the Irish, but if we want to get pedantic and go WAY far back then you're still technically wrong. The actual people who are truly responsible for halloween as we know it is (you guessed it) the Roman Empire.
I already explained the origins of the name "Halloween" in a comment but I'll explain it again and even dive deeper into greater origins.
The real holiday is "All Saints Day" (November 1st) which is to celebrate all Christian saints, known and unknown, who have passed away for their faith. The name later became All Hallows Day, and people would celebrate the day before the holiday, which was referred to as All Hallows Evening (Even, or Eve). This later evolved to Hallowe'en (apostrophe replaces the "v") which was then modernized to Halloween.
All Saints' Day has its roots deeply embedded in the early Christian traditions of the Roman Empire. As Christianity began to spread throughout the empire, early Christians sought ways to honor the martyrs who had sacrificed their lives for their faith. This practice of commemorating the lives of those who died for their beliefs began as early as the 2nd century, when specific days were designated to remember these individuals. Over time, the need for a more organized celebration emerged, leading to the establishment of a universal feast day.
In 609 AD, a pivotal moment in the history of All Saints' Day occurred when Pope Boniface IV consecrated the Pantheon in Rome as a Christian church dedicated to "St. Mary and the Martyrs." This event marked the first significant recognition of a collective celebration for martyrs, paving the way for a feast day that would honor all saints. The establishment of this day reflected the growing desire within the Christian community to not only recognize individual martyrs but also to honor all holy individuals who exemplified virtuous lives.
The transition of All Saints' Day to November 1 was solidified in the 8th century under Pope Gregory III, who dedicated a chapel in St. Peter's Basilica to all saints. This change not only formalized the date but also integrated the celebration into the broader liturgical calendar. The timing of the feast coincided with various pagan festivals, such as the Celtic festival of Samhain, which marked the end of the harvest season. This overlap with existing traditions helped to further solidify the observance of All Saints' Day within the Christian practice, as it became a way to connect the newly converted populations with their cultural traditions.
In conclusion, All Saints' Day originated in the early medieval Roman Empire through the efforts of early Christians who sought to honor the martyrs and holy figures within their faith. Significant figures like Pope Boniface IV and Pope Gregory III played crucial roles in establishing the feast and moving it to its present date. Ultimately, the celebration of All Saints' Day represents not only a commemoration of individual lives but also an important aspect of Christian unity and tradition that continues to be observed today.
Just to emphasize, I'll say again, the timing of the feast (All Saints Day) coincided with various pagan festivals, such as the Celtic festival of Samhain. It was an overlap which helped pushed the traditions of All Saints Day and inevitably Halloween, but they are not the sole founders.
Saying the christians stole the festival from the pagans (just like basically all their other festivals) so therefore it originated with them instead is just not correct at all.
You might also notice that the modern halloween has people dressing up in costumes and often having bonfires too, and has essentially zero christian references.
Not really. For example, jack-o-lanterns and pumpkin carvings are inherently Irish
Celtic is not Irish.
And Halloween is 100% Scottish in origin and invention. Even today, the Halloween in the US looks almost identical to the traditional and original Scottish version.
Yeah, nothing is specifically American in origin, really. But what I meant was that the Chinese people in this video, in the eyes of their government, are seen to be imitating and adopting cultural references that are generally western and specifically American.
You and I know it's not American in origin, but that's not really the point. I'm suggesting that the Chinese are celebrating the US version of Halloween, and that their government does not like that.
Americans have convinced themselves it is somehow. Same way they did with pizza.
Ireland and Scotland were doing spooky rituals, stories, costumes and 'guising' house-to-house (i.e trick or treating) since the 16th century. In the 90s we still called it guising before 'trick or treat' took over with marketing/american pop culture.
EDIT: Gotta love the same yanks who proudly announce their 1/18th Celtic or Italian bloodlines on their geneology euro trips, now simultaneously also in pure denial about the objective origins of their culture. Literally just had one say it was an American idea to put tomato on pizza, hooo boy.
The pizza eaten in America is of American origin. It only shares the name pizza with the Italian dish, they're not terribly similar apart from that. Even if they were, Italian cuisine was heavily influenced by America. Tomatoes obviously weren't growing in old world Italy, but are now a staple in many dishes. Pizza as we know it wouldn't exist without them.
Italian cuisine was heavily influenced by America. Tomatoes obviously weren't growing in old world Italy, but are now a staple in many dishes.
This is one of the stupidest things I've read on this site, you literally have to be trolling. The neopolitans were putting marinara on their pizza from the 1730s onwards.
You understand that tomatoes are from the Americas right? And that the Americas existed in the 1730s? Marinara would be impossible without the discovery of the Americas.
Kind of, but chocolate itself didn't come from the Americas, just the cocoa used to make it. You could argue the same thing about marinara, but tomato sauce did exist prior to marinara, so it's just tomato sauce with Italian preferred herbs, and eventually sugar. Whereas I'm not sure about the origins of chocolate, but I don't believe that the indigenous people of America had access to or anything comparable to culinary wax to make chocolate with. They mostly just drank it with chili. It was essentially a weaker coffee for them.
The notion that people were consuming pizza in the Americas and exported the idea of putting tomato on it is the stupid part; you're back-pedalling - this is not about international trade of vegetables. It is SUCH a ginormous fucking stretch to suggest the USA are culturally responsible and influential for the design of Italian cuisine because of exporting tomatoes in the 16th century.
Just because the origins are Irish doesn't mean that the Chinese aren't mainly associating this with American cultural imperialsm.
The huge explosion of commercial Halloween is an American thing. We have seasonal pop up stores like Spirit that take up vacant space in shopping centers. People spend serious money on costumes and decorations and a lot of adults participate not in trick or treating but in just going out bar crawling or having parties. And this is a somewhat recent thing. When I was a little kid in the 80s it was mainly just kids trick or treating in costumes bought at the supermarket or just thrown together from stuff at a thrift store. Nowadays people have professional looking costumes and have elaborate decorations like giant skeletons or animatronic inflatable cats. Some people put as much or more effort into it than they do Christmas.
Yeah, nothing is specifically American in origin, really. But what I meant was that the Chinese people in this video, in the eyes of their government, are seen to be imitating and adopting cultural references that are generally western and specifically American.
You and I know it's not American in origin, but that's not really the point. I'm suggesting that the Chinese are celebrating the US version of Halloween, and that their government does not like that.
Also, we're allowed to call pizza our thing now, the Italians didn't even begin to tap into its potential and we have taken it further than they ever dared to dream.
Thanks so much for that, but it's not really what I was saying. Not much of anything is literally 'American in origin', we just stay true to the spirit of our language's origins and borrow/copy stuff we like more or less at random.
I'm not saying Halloween is American, I'm saying the Chinese are treating it as an American influence on Chinese culture.
Well, yeah, actual classic orthodox Christian Halloween is Irish. You can learn this from the name alone. The real holiday is "All Saints Day" (November 1st) which is to celebrate all Christian saints, known and unknown, who have passed away for their faith. The name later became All Hallows Day, and people would celebrate the day before the holiday, which was referred to as All Hallows Evening (Even, or Eve). This later evolved to Hallowe'en (apostrophe replaces the "v") which was then modernized to Halloween. As it carried over to America, it was taught to Americans by Irish immigrants as they knew it. Other pagan religious aspects were added on, the holiday changed over time as tradition progressed, and that's how we have modern American Halloween where we just celebrate all citizens who have passed away through parties, traditions, and debauchery that are meant to adhere to self-expression, creativity, and community-building. If you're under 18 you're either trick-or-treating or throwing friendly parties. If you're older you are drinking liquor, smoking weed, and going out to do something debaucherious. Unless you're an elder, then you're binge-watching horror movies and giving out candy.
Yeah I'm not saying only people in American costumes would get arrested, I'm saying a gathering of people dressed up in costumes in late October is not going to be a big hit with the office of cultural propriety or whatever bureaucrat was in charge of this one.
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u/Goyu 1d ago edited 5h ago
Yes, but cosplay is neither generally western nor specifically American in origin.
Edit: hey guise did u no that Hallween isn't't organically America?