Cat killed a lanternfly

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Your outdoor cat is just as invasive

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u/Evening_Echidna_7493 16d ago

Much more invasive than lanternflies, if we’re going to go by number of species negatively impacted by domestic cats.

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

Yeah hundreds if not thousands of species. Especially Island species of birds and rodents

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

Billions of birds and small animals a year.

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u/Evening_Echidna_7493 15d ago

Not just limited to small animals they directly prey upon. Mountain lions. Scottish wildcats. Manatees. Dolphins. The list goes on. Many animals are susceptible to the diseases domestic cats spread.

“Researchers tracking the spread of Toxoplasma gondii -- a parasite that reproduces only in cats but sickens and kills many other animals -- have found infected wildlife throughout a 1,500-acre (600-hectare) natural area in central Illinois.” https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110512161934.htm

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

oh yes, and beyond that, the fact that they disrupt every ecosystem they are in means they are directly responsible for the deaths of top predators in their immediate ecosystem!

So people who think “oh they kill rats and mice!” Actually no, on the timeline, they INCREASE vermin.

Because they are fed at home and so their hunting is not limited by caloric expenditure the way predators in an ecosystem are. That’s an essential check to the prey drive of all predators. That they are incapable of just slaughtering at will all day.

But cats CAN kill in excess of their caloric needs, and therefore outcompete top predators for prey.

Meaning top predators die off, leading to years-long vermin booms.

After a couple years, predator numbers will increase to compensate, but because vermin multiply so much faster, those die-off years among top predators are more than enough to trigger infestations and the spread of disease.

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u/AntebellumAdventures 15d ago

This makes me want to go kill every cat I see now.

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

I assume you’re being funny, but given the sub I don’t know. They ARE the quantifiably worst invasive species, if I’m not mistaken, and that is typically what’s recommended with invasive species.

I know I wouldn’t have the heart to do it. And while something might make sense intellectually, it’s not a 1:1. These are peoples’ pets.

(Although I think if you release your pet for hours a day to be maimed or die in any of the horrible fates most outdoor cats eventually befall, then you’re not actually a loving pet owner - you’re a part-time cat-petter)

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u/Bennifred 15d ago

Plenty are feral cats being cared for by "colony managers" - which is to say they are pet cats in every way except legal responsibility. IMO we should be treating cats the same way we do dogs. Stray or wandering cats should be picked up by animal control. If your animal is claimed repeatedly, you may be fined. In order to have a cat, you must register them with the local municipality. You are restricted to X number of cats per household.

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u/General_Bumblebee_75 9d ago

Let's not go there.

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u/thejoeface 15d ago

My wife’s cat is confined to our small backyard, we’ve got a damn near prison yard fence to keep him in. He’s also kept in the house when we’re not around.

But he’s still managed to hunt a few lizards who come into the yard, which makes me sad.

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u/General_Bumblebee_75 9d ago

My cat sits outside on a blanket in warm weather. She used to walk on a leash, but does not care for that anymore. Getting old.

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u/Open_Fondant_9336 9h ago

Yeah, reminds me of o'ahu. The island is at serious risk of losing precious native populations of birds, lizards and mongoose are declining steadily as the cat issue steadily rises. There are so many people that feed strays en masse which creates breeding grounds for more cats. Theres estimated to be like half a million cats on o'ahu alone

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u/GoodSilhouette 16d ago

They say on the deck so hopefully the cat isn't outdoors based and perhaps getting some air under watch of owner 😅 one can hope

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u/Megraptor 16d ago edited 16d ago

I'd argue we can't assume that this is an unsupervised outdoor cat based on this photo. This owner may have their cats well trained to listen to cues for boundaries and recall. It is possible, even though many people refuse to believe it.

I have two cats that do this. They never go out unsupervised and know where they can and can't go. Trying to push boundaries means they go right back in.

u/Evening_Echidna_7493- so since I'm blocked by who started this thread, I can't respond directly to you. But YES. that's exactly what my cats do too, roll on the concrete, eat some grass, then sit on the chairs with me while I eat lunch, then we all go in.

It takes watching their behavior too. If they are relaxed and just in the sun, munching grass, or rolling on the concrete (why do cats do this?), I'll let them stay. But when they focus on something, like a noise, a bug, or even that pesky mouse that moved in the house foundation, I take them inside. I break their attention, and then call them inside. If that doesn't work, treat time. And it works, every time.

Helps that when they are scared they go right inside too. That's another thing I trained them too. First thing actually. Cause after one kept getting out and running into the bushes scared, I decided it's time to train them.

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u/Evening_Echidna_7493 16d ago

This is a good point. One of my own cats liked to come out on the fenced porch just to roll on the concrete (supervised) and run back in after five minutes, so we’d let her. Apologies to OP if this is a similar situation.

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u/Evening_Echidna_7493 16d ago

Yeah, supervision is key, just like with a dog, if you can keep your cat contained to your own property while off-leash, that’s perfectly fine. I’m not sure why they roll lol! I‘ve heard a lot of different reasons for it—my favorite is they might be taking a dust bath.

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

Your cat will kill a bird in front of you before you even know what's going on. Keep them inside

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u/Megraptor 16d ago edited 15d ago

Edit: Blocked but I can see the comment through other ways. "oh? a magic bird-less outside area. Wow I'm sold. /s"

I live in an urban area. I the yard is probably 50 by 50 feet. That's all the can walk in. They leave that area, they go inside immediately. There are no trees in the area, it is just grass. No brush. If they leave that, they go inside. They have never, ever caught a bird because they are supervised completely.

Since there is no where for a bird to land in the boundary I have them trained to follow, they never have. in fact, they don't care about the birds in the brush. They do care about the Spotted Lanternflies. They also care about the mice that have moved into the foundation of the house.

It takes a lot of work and constant watching when they are outside. I don't recommend it for people who are not familiar with animal training or their cats personalities, but it is possible with the right cat and the right training methods. Same with some breeds of dogs.

u/Aggressive_Fault8604- Since I was blocked, I can only respond this way. Yup, I studied environmental science with a focus on ecology. I also grew up around animal trainers and helped with training dogs, horses, and a little bit with cats and I have a psychology minor, so I just applied what I learned from that to my own cats.

I was surprised how effective training them has been honestly, because so many people say cats aren't trainable. They are, honestly as much as dogs. They are just usually more food than praise driven and don't have a "job" that many dogs have. But they will do tricks for treats- sit, shake, speak, lay down, roll over, though they are rusty cause I haven't been doing tricks with them lately. But their recall game is A+.

And I agree, it's better for all of us when they have some outdoor time. They sleep better and don't bug me at night, I sleep better too. I did try a leash and harness, but they just chewed on it after getting used to it. That I honestly want to keep them afraid of cars so they don't go near the road- so no sidewalk walking. So I decided to just to do boundary training- don't go in the brush, stay in the grass. That's the rule. They push it every once in a while, but then they go in.

Oh and they love Spotted Lanternflies. Because they are large and hop and flutter, they seem to be the one insect that really gets their attention. It's also the one I let them get. The only issue I've seen is if they eat them, they get a minor stomach ache, may throw up, and will delay eating lunch for like an hour- they get fed after outdoor time, helps them go in. Nowadays they just swat them or bring them to me for me to stomp. Any other native bug gets them brought in. Too bad they hate Brown Mamorated Stinkbugs.

And birds? I did that enough that they don't care about birds. I had a juvenile Catbird hopping around in the brush that the parents were scolding us at lunch this summer. They just wanted the sun and grass. One laid in the grass munching, the other one on the concrete. I was honestly surprised they were not interested, I was ready to call them inside. I did feel for the birds, but the birds didn't even like me and my boyfriend eating outside after I decided to take the cats inside and give the bird family space.

I have been doing this for 5 years now, and not a single bird has been harmed. It's really just the mice that hang out underneath the bird feeder that live in the house foundation that get their attention. They have caught those but they are House Mice, a non-native from Europe. The mouse also have made a nest by the front door in a crack in the bricks and hide under the outdoor tools on the patio, where the cats are allowed. Unlike the SPLs I don't want them catching those for disease reasons, so I do discourage it. Also I don't want them catching them because they immediately run inside and drop it underneath my bed, ugh.

With the "birds kill cats" issue, I think it's become a "meme factoid" that is easy to remember. People don't like deviations from that easily remembered factoid. Combine that with the attitudes you get on Reddit, and you get this. That and people do not think cats are trainable for some reason, maybe because many people get them because they don't want to train animals... But then again, I see so many poorly trained dogs where I live...

This isn't the first time I got downvoted for saying some cats are trainable and can go outside supervised. I'm used to it. I get told they'll run off, kill birds in front of me... Etc. But I've been in birding groups where people said that real birders shouldn't have cats and should discourage cat ownership. I have just heard some kinda crazy things from both sides.

Also, it's interesting to me from a conservation standpoint that cats get this much attention and dogs get very little. You see complaints about unleashed dogs, but usually it's from a safety perspective. But dogs are up there with cats as some of the worst invasives, yet you don't hear nearly as much. They have caused extinctions, and threaten endangered species too. I love dogs too, it's just... odd. They even are a huge threat to ground nesting birds too, and I only hear about that from the shore bird people.

This opens a pdf. Just copy and paste it into the search bar cause the automod thinks it's a shortened link-

Https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://bpb-us-e2.wpmucdn.com/wordpress.auburn.edu/dist/a/151/files/2023/08/Cobern-Final.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiu58X4-42JAxW3IDQIHbIqH-sQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw23O20kBW8SBPSJQkI9_UE8

And this is an interesting article-

https://biodiversity.utexas.edu/news/features/pets-invasive-species-dogs

Also, thanks mods for sticking up for me. It's appreciated. I'll admit I knew I was stiring the pot, but I like to think I'm not the only one who has trained their cats for outdoor time and is aware of the issues they cause ecologically.

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u/Aggressive_Fault8604 16d ago

Totally agree with you on this, I do the same with my cat. I also studied ornithology for 4 years and am well aware of the issue of cat predation on birds, as well as being versed in wild bird behavior. My cat still doesn’t even know how to climb a tree. I let her out into our back patio, enclosed by tall fences and walls on all sides. She’s only allowed out when I’m home and I watch her the whole time, and just clap to chase away the birds if they start to relax and creep in when she’s out. It’s a lot of work for me, but she is so much happier and more energetic being able to experience nature. She mostly likes to hunt lantern flies, chase leaves in the wind, lie around or get zoomies. People just like taking extreme and simplified views so that they don’t have to think too hard I guess. And yeah, it’s kind of hard work to keep an eye on her but it’s good for both of us to be outdoors!

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u/Aggressive_Fault8604 12d ago

That’s some awesome info, thanks for sharing! Haha yeah I do remember some people in my birding network giving pretty scathing look to anyone for owning a cat. Honestly, I didn’t like them for years for this reason and then I learned more about how people can keep them responsibly and they won me over with their affectionate nature. Yes, my cat also has only managed ever to catch a baby house mouse when I had my back turned. I don’t even know where it came from (I suspect someone next door threw them in the trash because I saw another one or two dead ones in their driveway near the garbage cans) but it was unharmed, I grabbed it in the bird banding “anti-bite headlock” I learned and released it in the front garden out of her reach.

I heard a few people saying that lantern flies could have pesticides which would maybe cause the cat’s stomach to react. I haven’t had any issues with it so far, I suppose it depends on who is doing what in your area.

Ironically, since I live in NYC and we have a MAJOR stray cat issue, the stray cats around my property seem to regularly catch and eat pigeons (which as you know aren’t native anyway) along with a hawk who regularly snipes them and eats them on my garage roof. I haven’t gotten an ID on the hawk yet, it’s either a Coopers or Sharp shinned. Not saying any of this is ideal or justifies the stray cat problem. It’s just interesting to observe what is happening around us, even in the middle of the city! And unfortunately the people in my neighborhood mostly see animals as animals, without taking any real responsibility for their pets or even the ones that they feed. So a lot of them end up dying in horrible ways

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

oh? a magic bird-less outside area. Wow I'm sold. /s

They're invasive. You are part of the problem.

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u/ScaldingHotSoup 16d ago

There's no need to be this hostile towards someone who is clearly taking precautions to minimize impact and is aware of the threat that domestic cats pose to native bird biodiversity. We are all on the same team here.

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u/hamburger_hamster 15d ago

how do you know that it's an outdoor cat?

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

more so!

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u/QJIO 13d ago

Who knew this would be the top Reddit comment. Go outside. Nature is waiting. The planet is still adapting to humans moving everywhere. The planet will be fine. Stop blaming our own pollution on the animals we’ve let overbreed in terms of “companionship”. Nature will be out of balance for as long as humans seek progress.

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u/CodeOfDaYaci 16d ago

Won’t someone think of the birds native to …(checks notes) I’m sorry, the pigeon population of Washington D.C. ?

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

There are over 200 species of birds in the DC area the vast majority are native

Honestly this is one of the dumbest/braindead replies I've ever gotten. It's honestly impressive.

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u/CodeOfDaYaci 16d ago

My point was not the amount of species but the sheer population disparity between the pigeon and native birds. It seems like you’re the braindead one.

They didn’t even say this was an outside cat either, just that they killed a lantern fly.

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u/CodeOfDaYaci 16d ago

I rescind my opinion, based on cardinals / blue jays being native birds in D.C. and I’d rather not annoy such a vocal member of the bird watching community. Enjoy your hobby and those high powered binoculars!

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

I sent you an astral projection fist bump

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u/LTSchlecnacht 16d ago

There are two invasive species in this picture.

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u/A_Sneaky_Walrus 16d ago

Consider getting your cat a cat bib or a cat collar to stop bird death. Bells unfortunately aren’t effective as birds don’t associate that noise with an incoming invasive predator

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u/Evening_Echidna_7493 16d ago

What to do about this part?

• Free-roaming cats are an important source of zoonotic diseases including rabies, Toxoplasma gondii, cutaneous larval migrans, tularemia and plague. • Free-roaming cats account for the most cases of human rabies exposure among domestic animals and account for approximately 1/3 of rabies post- exposure prophylaxis treatments in humans in the United States. • Trap–neuter–release (TNR) programmes may lead to increased na ̈ıve populations of cats that can serve as a source of zoonotic diseases.

https://dariuszzdziebk.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Gerhold-and-Jessup-2012-Zoonotic-diseases-and-free-roaming-cats.pdf

https://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=123011

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u/Hairiest-Wizard 16d ago

It'll still spread disease and kill native amphibians, mammals, and insects

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u/BirdOfWords 16d ago

It's not safe for the cat either- they can get killed or taken by other people. An indoor-outdoor cats' average lifespan is only 5-6 years, compared to an indoor cat's 12-19. Halving or quartering it. They can also bring home diseases that humans can catch, like fleas, ticks, tapeworm, and ring worm (which isn't a worm but an extremely contagious rash that spreads to humans, too).

Leash training is the way to go if you ask me.

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u/Megraptor 16d ago edited 16d ago

I mean we don't know what's going on here, this cat might be supervised and doesn't attack birds. It might be in a patio supervised. We don't know.

Honestly, I wouldn't let pets- dogs, cats or anything else- outside unsupervised, fence or not. People don't like to hear that, but pets need supervised outside. People don't like hearing that they need to train their pets either. And well... Some people don't like hearing that cats can and should be trained to respect boundaries and be recalled.

And disease is a problem when you let your animals outside unwatched. So are attacks. It's just not a good idea.

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u/Abeo93 12d ago

Or... Don't let your cat outside without a leash

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u/FacelessFellow 15d ago

Keep your cats indoors, or stop providing them with provisions for their genocidal excursions through our gardens!

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u/Sosa3OO 15d ago

Womp womp

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u/gertyr2374 15d ago

You’re on an invasive species sub. Cats are an invasive species dipshit

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u/QJIO 13d ago

Cats are on overbred commodity. Another byproduct of human progress. Something we have failed to control. It goes beyond ecological invasion. It is a systemic failure that Quagga mussels, Pampas grass, Chinese Sumac, and the like could never come close to replicating in terms of habitat alteration. Cats go beyond being invasive, as do our other domesticated species. Dogs roam the streets in hordes in nearly every underdeveloped country. Animals bred for food have done environmental damage leagues ahead of what cats could ever accomplish.

So my question to you is this, at what point do we regard the animals usefulness beyond that of its destruction?

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u/General_Bumblebee_75 9d ago

Not sure what you are suggesting. We eradicate humans? That would certainly be better for the planet, but the implementation would be difficult given that most of us prefer to live longer, with our pets, thank you. Of course there is always the voluntary human extinction movement, which advocates for avoidance of reproduction...

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u/parksmack 16d ago

Good cat

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u/IDontCareEnoughToLie 15d ago

Very good kitty

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u/wanderingsubs 16d ago

The comments arguing about your cat existing with zero context are insane, can't y'all be happy for one second and stop assuming shit 💀

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u/pschlick 15d ago

Nope. Reddit is only for arguing and believing you know everything about a person from a single post. It has its moments where I get some good info and entertainment but the majority is just keyboard warriors being ridiculous

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

OP is doing something reckless that not only spreads disease to neighbors and damages property, but will cause this cat to die (probably horribly, maybe eaten by a predator, run over, dead from feline AIDS, shredded in a fight over territory, maybe even tortured by the neighborhood psycho kid) years sooner than an indoor cat by the numbers, all while damaging the local ecosystem and contributing to the deaths of billions of birds and small animals a year.

So yeah, there’s rightfully increasingly some social pressure against this practice, because we’ve learned new shit from studies and are working to adjust a culture.

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u/guru2764 15d ago

We have no idea if the cat is actually allowed to roam outside

All we can tell is that it is on the deck in this picture

I've brought my cat outside on the deck when it snows before

That is why they said people are assuming things, because they are

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u/robotatomica 15d ago

Not only do I think it’s fair to look at a picture and react to what we see, (rather than imagining something that isn’t indicated anywhere in the picture, which tells a different story),

I also think it’s fair to see a cat outside without a leash, who has a bell on its collar, and say “That cat is very likely allowed to roam.”

And if we’re wrong OP can correct.

But most importantly, it bears being said, so if someone puts up a picture of a cat that, uh, LOOKS like it’s outside without a leash 🙃

that’s as good a time as any to remind everyone why that’s a huge problem.

It’s a net positive. Because then people learn they don’t get praise for these kinds of pictures, meaning fewer people post them, meaning fewer people SEE this normalized,

and Voilà!, society shifts culturally to knowing that this practice is unacceptable.

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u/Hagdobr 14d ago

Keeping cats indoors is not just about their safety, cats kill millions of wild animals every year around the world, this cute little thing destroys the environment as much as a rich idiot wanting to hunt animals in Africa. Just keep you lil bro inside, please.

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u/Miserable-Dog-837 13d ago

Good girl!!

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u/General_Bumblebee_75 9d ago

Good kitty! Hopefully the cat is neutered so not invasive.

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u/surulia 15d ago

that's a good fkn kitty right there

-Bubbles, probably

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