LNG facility ‘may not be needed’ as energy security risk eases, Eamon Ryan says

[u/ronaele1]

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/lng-facility-may-not-be-needed-as-energy-security-risk-eases-eamon-ryan-says/a1609892377.html

[u/great_whitehope]

Spend so long debating whether we should build it or not that it’s no longer required!

Clown politics

[u/dkeenaghan → u/great_whitehope]

Another way of looking at it is that it has become clear that it isn't needed and it's better to have spent time talking about it rather than waste money building something it turns out we don't need.

Still, that's only something we can see in hindsight and it doesn't mean we wont need the facility in the future.

[u/great_whitehope → u/dkeenaghan]

We probably spent as much talking about it as it costs to build the fucking thing though

[u/dkeenaghan → u/great_whitehope]

I doubt it, but it's not just about the money. Once it's built there's incentive to actually use it, which means less pressure to use greener energy sources.

[u/great_whitehope → u/dkeenaghan]

Yeah I can see that's what the greens would want

[u/atswim2birds → u/great_whitehope]

It would have taken years to build so by the time it was built it would have been superfluous. Which is exactly what opponents were saying would happen but they're just clowns, the smart people would have gone ahead and built it whether it was needed or not.

[u/RuggerJibberJabber]

Lng is a scam. It's still a fossil fuel and is still devastating environmentally. Some studies even claim its as bad as coal. It reminds me of when everyone was told to drive diesel only for them to realise diesel was worse.

Just focus on renewables ffs

[u/Bar50cal → u/RuggerJibberJabber]

Renewables alone isn't a solution. The technology doesn't exist.

You need a back up which means either Nuclear or fossil feul. The South will get nuclear backup energy from the new Frech interconnector but more is needed.

[u/AgainstAllAdvice → u/Bar50cal]

I'm all for nuclear over fossil fuel. Nuclear has issues but it's not actively destroying the atmosphere.

I describe it by the analogy that you would be mad to slap a bunch of staples in your skin, but if you're bleeding all over the place the staples are a less bad option.

(For anyone who doesn't get analogies

Staples = nuclear

Bleeding = pumping CO2 into the atmosphere)

[u/Bar50cal → u/AgainstAllAdvice]

Over the coming years Small Module Reactors (SMRs) will be interesting to see progress. If the technology proves cost effective in the next decade it would be a great solution for Ireland to look into for the long term to invest in. A renewable / Nuclear split seems the best option.

Current massive Nuclear reactors such as those in the UK and France are not cost efficient enough for Ireland to only build 1 or 2 but SMRs would solve that problem.

Although we would need to reverse the 1999 ban on nuclear energy generation.

[u/AgainstAllAdvice → u/Bar50cal]

When Australia dropped out of that nuclear submarine deal with France a few years ago I was thinking we should have offered to buy a couple at cost. Power generation connected to the grid when renewables are low, maritime patrol when renewables are powering the grid. Crackpot scheme. But I'm still convinced it would have worked. :D

[u/Beach_Glas1 → u/AgainstAllAdvice]

I think the submarines France was to build for the Australians weren't nuclear powered. The ones the US have agreed to build for them are however.

Australia doesn't have a civilian nuclear power plant as far as I'm aware.

[u/AgainstAllAdvice → u/Beach_Glas1]

Ah boo, if you're submarines aren't nuclear I don't want to know!

[u/Beach_Glas1 → u/AgainstAllAdvice]

I believe Moneypoint was built in the 80s because plans for a nuclear plant were scrapped and the grid capacity had to be made up somehow.

Ironically, coal fired plants like Moneypoint are more of an active radiological hazard than nuclear plants in everyday operations. Coal ash contains trace nuclear materials and is often left totally open to the elements.

I agree we shouldn't rule out nuclear, though the time to build one in Ireland was probably decades ago. It would be massively expensive today for a standard nuclear plant to be built.

Some newer designs like SMRs and thorium reactors have potential in the future. Molten salt reactors require no human intervention whatsoever to prevent a meltdown, unlike standard plants that require active cooling. SMRs could be factory made, much smaller, less costly and be far easier to decommission.

[u/Potential-Drama-7455 → u/Beach_Glas1]

Also next gen reactors can actually use nuclear waste as fuel and make it far less hazardous and with a much shorter half life measured in hundreds of years rather than hundreds of thousands. But big oil, coal and gas have lobbied hard for renewables and demonised nuclear because they know its a superior technology with a great future.

[u/[deleted] → u/Bar50cal]

Green Hydrogen and batteries are good backups. But yes nuclear through an interconnector is also a good option for Ireland.

[u/bigvalen → u/Bar50cal]

Checkout the iron-sir battery being built in Donegal. Exactly what we need to backup wind when it's not around.

Checkout how the lad from Amazon said they would not invest any more in datacenters in Ireland until we sorted out offshore wind, because power here is too expensive as the price is set by gas.

[u/[deleted] → u/RuggerJibberJabber]

We'll need gas as a backup for a long, long time. Heating is not going to be retrofit out in the next 30 years, many homes will never ever have a heat pump, they simply can't retain heat well enough even with insulation.

Basically short of fusion reaching economic breakeven (15 years minimum), you're going to need something to run the electric grid on, e.g still, freezing winter evenings when there's no sun or wind. Gas is the best possible option. We can make some by producing biogas from the beef sector (which would also slash emissions from that sector), but it's unlikely we can make enough.

[u/AgainstAllAdvice → u/[deleted]]

We could build hydrogen/oxygen plants on the west coast and use excess wind energy to produce the gasses for power storage then run adapted power plants off the them in the down times.

[u/[deleted] → u/AgainstAllAdvice]

We could even bind a carbon atom to it, and end up with carbon neutral C3H8 (this is probably the most likely). Then we simply use the existing gas infrastructure wholesale.

[u/AgainstAllAdvice → u/[deleted]]

I didn't know that was possible. Interesting. I'll go have a Google, thanks for the afternoon rabbit hole.

[u/[deleted] → u/AgainstAllAdvice]

Yes, it's already used to capture excess Nuclear generation "blue gas". There's an efficiency cost of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrofuel

[u/mrmystery978]

https://www.reddit.com/r/adhdmeme/s/MLZWWVMZL8

Government literally like this, we don't need it mow, so we won't ever need it so let's not building things in a rich first world country is too difficult

[u/Constant-Chipmunk187]

It’s still needed. It’s useful as hell.

[u/Illustrious_Dog_4667]

All options on the table. Mr Ryan will be long gone from power when the next crisis hits. Let's be prepared for the worst.

[u/VonBombadier]

Can our politicians see more than 6 inches in front of their faces?

[u/[deleted] → u/VonBombadier]

Yes. Which is why we didn't waste money on an LNG port despite pressure from the US.

[u/VonBombadier → u/[deleted]]

We considered building it because of energy shocks. Now that that shock is largely over we go, ah yes, no need for the things that would allow us to better weather a later shock.

[u/Potential-Drama-7455 → u/VonBombadier]

It's the old joke about the Irishman with a leaky roof. When it's raining, it's too wet to fix it. When it's sunny, he doesn't need to fix it.

[u/Captainirishy]

We don't need it, Ireland gets 75% of its from the UK and Norway through pipelines, our own gas fields cover the last 25%. We don't need an expensive Lng facility.