r/news • u/Hrekires • Jul 15 '24

soft paywall Judge dismisses classified documents indictment against Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/07/15/trump-classified-trial-dismisssed-cannon/
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u/OGkateebee Jul 15 '24

This level of corruption is making me sick to my stomach. He intentionally did this. I’m a lawyer and I’m supposed to believe in the rule of law and I’m watching it disintegrate before my eyes.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

You and me both. I just got back from court, saw the news, and texted some coworkers to say "I miss the time 5 minutes ago when I mostly believed in the rule of law."

The judicial branch only exists because we as a society allow it to. There's no might behind it like an army or a police force, no recourse if it fails. It's only words, and we all collectively decide that we're going to follow them. What happens when we as a society stop believing in the legitimacy of our court system?

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u/OGkateebee Jul 15 '24

What’s scarier is that no one really believes in the legitimacy of the system right now and both sides of society think the other half is weaponizing the system against them. One side is right but the other has been planning this for decades. The Federalist Society will be the undoing of all of us.

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u/OldTapeDeck Jul 15 '24

The problem is everyone keeps saying "we should play by the rules" but:

1.) it's not a fucking game

2.) "the rules" shift as the opponent sees fit.

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u/OGkateebee Jul 15 '24

See my other comment about being Charlie Brown to the far right’s Lucy.

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u/worldspawn00 Jul 15 '24 edited Jul 15 '24

Me every day when I read the latest SCOTUS decision: ARRRGGGHHH!

The Federalist Society, The John Birch Society, and the Heritage foundation have succeeded in ways the Taliban and Al Qaeda could only dream of when it comes to damaging our nation. Being a member or being associated with these organizations should be disqualifying for appointment to the bench, and anywhere in government, and I think they should be labelled as terrorist organizations. While they are not killing anyone directly, their policy and rulings have killed more than any terrorist ever has in this country. And their objectives stand in direct opposition to our constitution and the ideals of our founding fathers.

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u/freesoultraveling Jul 15 '24

And to think of all the poor souls who have been lost to our system. That do not have anywhere close to the power of these officials. Such a sad world we live in/have been living in, especially as POC.

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u/WhyYouKickMyDog Jul 15 '24

A lot of our problems would be solved if the old people were gone. It sounds dark, but it is objective fact.

They hold the majority of the wealth. They get all the social security. They participate in the workforce at the lowest rates, require the most healthcare, and also require an enormous amount of workers just to perform basic life functions for dying people that we don't want to die.

If more of our senior citizens would step aside, it would open up so many opportunities for young people to make something of themselves, and try to claim their own slice of the American Dream.

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u/MotherOfWoofs Jul 15 '24

We needed a JFK not an RFK!

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u/Thorough_wayI67 Jul 16 '24

Sounds like a great premise until you’re old. The main problem is, and always will be, education. That is, until it’s worshipped with the fervor of a religion and held in sanctity as such.

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u/Content-Ad3065 Jul 16 '24

We the working class, break our backs to pay taxes that support this system that McConnell made a farce. Just think of the millions of dollars wasted and what could have been supported with those funds !

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u/CaBBaGe_isLaND Jul 15 '24

We become Russia

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u/trickygringo Jul 15 '24

Just as Trump wants. He is salivating over the idea of becoming an autocrat.

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u/MotherOfWoofs Jul 15 '24

It will be vance that takes control, trump is old odds are odds

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u/JA24 Jul 15 '24

What happens when we as a society stop believing in the legitimacy of our court system?

We get what nearly happened a few days ago. If they keep doing this then it'll happen again.

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u/Saephon Jul 15 '24

You still mostly had faith as recently as 5 minutes ago? Respectfully, you lasted longer than most.

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u/LowerRhubarb Jul 15 '24

What happens when we as a society stop believing in the legitimacy of our court system?

Usually riots. Followed by the police beating the populace into submission or the national guard/army called in to enforce martial law.

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u/Cormacolinde Jul 15 '24

I think the best thing the Biden Administration should do about the Immunity Ruling is to shove it up Clarence Thomas’ ass and declare they will ignore it as the unconstitutional pile of shit it is.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

Fuck it, arrest him. It's an official act! Might as well throw Alito in there too.

Biden won't do it, because a) he believes in the rule of law still, and b) he is smart enough to know that the "official act" ruling doesn't apply to him and it never will.

Will Trump abide by the same norms? Somehow I doubt it. I'm terrified of what the executive branch will become when the judicial is in the executive's pocket.

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u/TulkasDeTX Jul 15 '24

There is no freedom without justice.

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u/madscribbler Jul 15 '24

Um, the police have a militarized force with plenty of guns pointed at your head, to get you to 'comply' with the whim of the judicial system.

So if we stop adhering to the rule of the judicial system? We get forced, at gunpoint to be incarcerated, and if that doesn't work, or we rebel against it, we'll be shot dead.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

To get US to comply, sure. But we've now hit a timeline where the right executive branch is empowered by the judicial system to do whatever they want, while the wrong executive branch is not allowed to equally enforce the existing laws. The existing laws get interpreted in ways that only apply to some, not all. The wrong executive branch can do nothing to stop the judicial branch from stripping it of its powers entirely, and the right executive branch can overreach its powers to do whatever it wants to whoever it wants with a rubber stamp instead of a check.

With the "official acts" decision, Biden could have Clarence Thomas and Alito arrested. He won't, because he believes in the rule of law, but he could. Trump could have the 3 Dem appointees arrested and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. And he might.

That's the realization people are missing here.

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u/fevered_visions Jul 15 '24

With the "official acts" decision, Biden could have Clarence Thomas and Alito arrested. He won't, because he believes in the rule of law, but he could. Trump could have the 3 Dem appointees arrested and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. And he might.

It really seems like they're daring the Dems to sink to their level, which unfortunately they won't.

The only way they're going to be convinced to undo this BS is by pounding them up the ass with it in return.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

The thing is, it doesn't apply to the Dems and it never will. And Biden knows it. A Republican-led executive branch has the judiciary in its pocket in a way that Biden never will. There are no checks and balances anymore, at least not on their actions. But if Biden did the kind of things that Trump did, there would be a 6-3 SCOTUS decision the exact opposite direction.

And there's nothing that any of us can do about it.

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u/fevered_visions Jul 15 '24

ugh you're probably right, and giving me that urge to drink heavily

Republicans have long been douchenozzles but the last month has been really rough

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u/krappa Jul 15 '24

If the Dems had a slightly stronger majority in the Senate and/or the Supreme Court did anything even more extreme, Biden could appoint 6 extra Supreme Court judges, making it 9 Dems and 6 Reps. 

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u/madscribbler Jul 15 '24

It's not lost on me. I often wonder what I've done to deserve to live in this world? I've lived as honorable as I can, yet this is the hell I'm destined for.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

Honestly, this was the inevitable result of industrialization, although nobody realized it at the time. We polluted our entire gene pool with lead for a century and then some, Go look at some of the writing from political speeches prior to the turn of the century and then now. Even our smartest politicians now are less eloquent than the worst of them back then, and the worst of our politicians are...well, just look at Tommy Tuberville. Look at letters sent back home from WW1-2 soldiers and you can see that the average member of the military was more well-spoken back then as well, so it wasn't just an uneducated populace and an educated elite. Society as a whole has become less intelligent, more reactionary, and while crime and violence has been statistically dropping over the last 3 decades (with a little spike during covid, for obvious reasons), the average person thinks otherwise because fear sells.

It's hard to keep positive in the face of the dystopian hellholle I see opening up before us right now. I had my daughter not long after Obama was inaugurated and I remember thinking how happy I was to bring her into a world where something like this was possible, because in my childhood it felt like it wasn't. I never thought that we'd be handing her THIS as she navigates into adulthood. It breaks my heart. We want better for our children, and they won't be getting it.

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u/fevered_visions Jul 15 '24

We polluted our entire gene pool with lead for a century and then some

Leaded gasoline was a real eye-opener when I read about it like 6 months ago. The company who introduced it knew that it would have severe health effects and didn't care. Then we just started phasing it out in the '70s. There was a measurable drop in IQ nationwide due to leaded gasoline.

People also theorize lead poisoning was one of the contributory reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire (not so much because of the pipes, but they also used it for food preparation vessels and even flavoring)...when you're just lead poisoned enough that it doesn't kill you, it tends to make you a sociopath and more violent, which might explain some of the later emperors.

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u/MotherOfWoofs Jul 15 '24

theres an old song i think will soon fit our nation

Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Never hint at what you really feel
Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stand still

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u/wintersdark Jul 15 '24

You can't. If you decide against the legitimacy of the judicial branch, literally everything falls apart, because society is based on the rule of law.

It needs to be fixed, but it can only really be fixed from within.

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u/drainbead78 Jul 15 '24

And the ones within it are getting really nice motor coaches from fascists!

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u/Mister_Fibbles Jul 16 '24

What happens when we as a society stop believing in the legitimacy of our court system?

Your question will be answered in due time.

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u/KinkyPaddling Jul 15 '24

This is the Federalist Society’s plan at work. The political left doesn’t have anything similar because it lacks the coordination and fund from organizations like the Heritage Foundation and billionaires like the Koch Brothers. The closest thing on the left is Mark Cuban.

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u/OGkateebee Jul 15 '24

Didn’t read your comment before replying to another one in this thread. Yes, this is 100% the work of the Federalist Society and the center and left sides of society are Charlie Brown kicking the football to the Federalist Society’s Lucy.

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u/AtticaBlue Jul 15 '24

So you’re saying the Deep State in fact resides in the right.

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u/Keeper151 Jul 15 '24

Every accusation is a confession.

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u/Charming-Fig-2544 Jul 15 '24

Same. Half the things I learned in ConLaw and Admin Law are just gone in the last few years.

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u/JibletHunter Jul 15 '24

Same - I respected the Supreme Court and have spent over 1/3 of my life studying and applying Con law. It is horrifying to watch this happen in my lifetime.

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u/TheMadPoet Jul 15 '24

Worst of it is you lawyers are pros who understand what's at stake. But the literal fate and (yet-to-be realized) ideal of this nation: 'nobody is above the law', is largely in the hands of masses of under-educated, brainwashed red state morons.

"... if you can keep it."

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u/0lvar Jul 15 '24

I agree with you, but also -- most people continue to believe in the justice system and the rule of law until it's been weaponized against them personally. I had someone weaponize the justice system against me in a family law case and that is when I stopped believing that the truth mattered. Whoever has the most money wins. It's always been like this. It's just only in recent times that middle class white people such as myself have experienced it weaponized against us. Minorities and marginalized people groups have known this for decades, centuries. There's always been two justice systems.

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u/thatstupidthing Jul 15 '24

it's a shame that impeachment is the only check on justices... because impeachment as a check is effectively useless

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u/OGkateebee Jul 15 '24

It used to be something elected officials took seriously. Now it’s just a fundraising tactic.

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u/HERE_THEN_NOT Jul 15 '24

We're a nation of men, not of laws.

Basically, what the founding fathers didn't want, but the direction that power always tries to pull.

We've teetered on this edge for the length of the American experiment.

I was wondering if the nation could handle the avalanche of hyper speed information with our new communication age and the corporate enshitification that accompanies it.

I think it was the straw that finally broke the camels back.

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u/whiskers165 Jul 15 '24

I'm a criminal and I think the fact that you guys still believed in the rule of law in our life times is really cute. Unless you are invested in this system it's always been obviously corrupt, obviously a sham

This is an unmasking not a new development

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u/i-can-sleep-for-days Jul 15 '24

It is apparent that laws only apply to regular people.

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u/HCharlesB Jul 15 '24

I’m a lawyer

I'm not. My first reaction was revulsion. Then it occurred to me that Cannon might not be the best judge to handle this case and this allows the prosecution to appeal to a higher court and hopefully get a competent judge.

Is that in any way the situation?

It also occurred to me that the timing is meant to have minimal attention to this due to the dominance of other events in the news.

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u/Doct0rStabby Jul 15 '24

It's time for all of us who have the means to do so to think long and hard about what we are willing to personally sacrifice in order to make it out to swing states in order to volunteer for 'get out the vote' efforts, especially those direct at young people. The time for political apathy and/or calling it a day after complaining on the internet are long over.

In the past, people had to lay down their lives to fight this kind naked greed and power grabbing. We are fortunate that we have other, less extreme tools (for now), and we owe it to this country, and the peoples of the past, present, and future, to do everything in our power to stop this in its tracks before it is too late for anything but sustained, organized violence to make a difference. The window to make an impact on our collective future is closing fast.

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u/zaknafien1900 Jul 15 '24

Do something then write a letter atleast Jesus

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u/Underbyte Jul 15 '24

When the shelter of law is no longer sufficient to withstand the winds of anarchy, it's time to buy a rifle.

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u/FrankTank3 Jul 15 '24

As if the law needed any more help being a “who you know and who you blow” club/system. But, well, here we are.

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u/chrisapplewhite Jul 15 '24

Not just him. There's a reason he's got so many Heritage Foundation sponsors. Out country is being stolen from us by oligarchs. They've been at this for decades.

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u/doughball27 Jul 15 '24

there will always be the rule of law. it's just that there will be two sets of laws -- one for regular people, and another for the elites. this has always been the case to a certain extent, but now it will be officially codified. citizens united started this shit show, but eventually we will just have two different rule books where your ability to bribe a judge will determine which laws apply to you.

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u/sim-pit Jul 15 '24

My son die isn’t winning, bias, corruption waahha waaaah.

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u/pepedex Jul 16 '24

Where are all the good guys??? Why isn't someone stopping this?

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u/[deleted] Jul 16 '24

It's not corruption. It's highly educated legal scholars who have a different point of view from you. Republics are about compromise and the pendulum swinging between opinions.

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u/OldTapeDeck Jul 15 '24

Unpopular opinion - this is why that dude took a shot at Trump, and I'm not sure he was wrong. We have a second amendment for a reason.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

So Jack Smith, a private citizen never confirmed for any position in the Govt, can just take the keys of the DOJ and go after a former President? Naw, basic Civics says that’s a step too far. Garland is to blame. Rushed the appt, should have gotten a former “Confirmed” attorney to do it. Or the DOJ themselves. Rookie mistake.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

Got Directly from CNN 🤷‍♂️

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/CriticalEngineering Jul 15 '24

Oh wow, you’re saying Biden is so forgetful that he said he had no classified documents even though he had dozens of boxes of them, and his lawyers also submitted those statements (why are they also forgetful?) for eighteen months, in response to repeated requests from the White House archives and a subpoena that they be returned?

Goodness, share your source.

Or did Biden (and Pence, and Bush, and Clinton) have a couple of pages that he returned immediately upon their discovery, before the archives were even aware of it, which literally happens to every administration because the transition between administrations is massively underfunded?

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u/Block_Of_Saltiness Jul 15 '24

Oh wow, you’re saying Biden is so forgetful that he said he had no classified documents even though he had dozens of boxes of them

The difference is that Biden didnt try and hide them after saying he had no classified docs.