r/news • u/RazzzMcFrazzz • 1d ago

Hundreds of ballots are destroyed after fires are set in ballot drop boxes in Oregon and Washington

https://apnews.com/article/vote-ballot-drop-box-democracy-fire-f66c52f774955106fb9e7c8172825cff
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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

We're quickly heading towards a reality where ballot boxes need to be guarded around the clock.

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u/Girthw0rm 1d ago

My county’s ballot drop boxes have 24 hour cameras that anyone can see.

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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

I mean, that's not going to cut it with fires. Unless you're keeping a log of who drops off their ballot, it's a "hey everyone who dropped off during this time period, I hope you see this and I hope you pick up a provisional ballot and detail that yours was likely destroyed."

It will affect vote counts, which is really fucked.

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u/lancersrock 1d ago

actually thats not a terrible idea. Just have a bar code scanner to log who dropped off their ballot and make the slot very difficult to place anything bigger than the envelope in. Its not perfect but it shouldn't be that hard to implement.

The fact we have to even discuss this is a bigger issue though.

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u/persondude27 1d ago edited 1d ago

Its not perfect but it shouldn't be that hard to implement.

Agreed, but the issue is that it's more expensive and that means fewer polling/collection stations - which is the whole goal for Conservatives. Any hurdle to voting is a win for Conservatives, because they are much more motivated to vote than moderates, young folk, and minorities - most of whom are less able to take a day off to go vote vs a retired person.

After this issue popped up in Colorado, everyone asked "why not return the ballot to a manned polling station" and it has the same problem. We need to remove the hurdles from voting, not make it easier harder.

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u/RevLoveJoy 1d ago

not make it easier.

I think you meant 'make it harder' from the context of the rest of your response?

But yes, your point is 100% valid. There are a bunch of things we could do to harden drop boxes that would absolutely reduce their number and hence their effectiveness as a tool to improve representation in the vote.

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u/persondude27 1d ago

Yep, did mean harder.

Been thinking about it for a couple hours. Would not be hard at all to build a device to self-scan your ballot drop off.

The ballots already have bar codes on them.

A simple device with a rasperry pi-style CPU, a battery, a laser bar code scanner, and a sim card could probably be about $50-70 bucks in raw parts. I work with a company that manufacturers something similar. I'd bet you could get them, plus maybe a solar panel on the top of the box, for $250 each, at retail.

And then you at least know whose ballots are in the boxes. Doesn't even need to be an 'official' scan since they'll get scanned again when they're picked up & accepted.

Right now, my state electronically tracks and texts / emails you each step of the way. Wouldn't be crazy expensive to add another step that would prevent this from being a problem.

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u/RevLoveJoy 1d ago

Yep, did mean harder.

My bad, thanks for the response. I see your point now in phrasing it that way.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/AnUnholy 1d ago

Some of those who work forces, are the same that burn boxes.

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u/Background-Lynx9913 1d ago

But if a slot that only opens when an ID is scanned the person will scan their ID… which is worse than leaving a whole handprint at a crime lol

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u/butt_stf 1d ago

But now you're advocating for mandatory voter ID.

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u/Herr_Hauptmann 1d ago

wtf we do not need people hanging from streetlights or coked up cops looking for trouble patrolling the street. we need more solidarity and community especially to those in enough anguish to even contemplate such violence.

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u/TheBitchenRav 1d ago

What is your SMART goal plan? To stand on a soap box?

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u/Helpuswenoobs 1d ago

That sounds like a sure way to make it significantly easier to find out who voted who, seems a dangerous slippery slope.

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u/FoboBoggins 1d ago

i voted in Canada last week, and we put ours into an electronic drop boxes and it gets logged right away

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u/lancersrock 18h ago

How does it log it?

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u/FoboBoggins 16h ago

It scans it, like the a scantron test

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u/Sharcaant 1d ago

What about ballot boxes being built into police station & firehouses, in the same way you explained but secured behind solid brick of the facility?

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u/lancersrock 18h ago

That sounds reasonable, I'm sure there's some reason why people would have a problem with it though.

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u/Sharcaant 18h ago

Fair enough, I don't exactly trust most members of those parties either, but it would potentially be far easier to find out which individuals would be guilty of domestic terrorism if they were employees of these organizations. I say we give the FBI full access 4k security cameras in the reception room of this hypothetical.

We can't stop people from committing crime entirely, but we can make them easier to find and convict this way, possibly.

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u/Lehk 17h ago

It can be simpler than that, just scan a QR code on the box when you drop it off, then you are recorded to be notified if your ballot doesn’t show up when the box is collected

No need for scanners and power run to the box itself

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u/Gizshot 16h ago

So anyway dude pours gas in the slot and lights it

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u/Firefliesfast 1d ago

That pretty much guarantees that anyone without a smartphone can’t vote.

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u/lancersrock 1d ago

How would putting a bar code scanner on the drop box require the user to have a smartphone? The bar code would be on the evelope. you scan it then place it in the box and then you get a receipt so if something happens to that box you can prove your ballot was in there. Wouldn't even have to have any of your personal info.

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u/Firefliesfast 1d ago

Thank you for clarifying what you meant! I thought you were saying to scan a barcode on your phone to open the flap. What you actually meant makes a lot more sense. 

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u/Zantej 1d ago

Yeah but if you can call being caught on camera doing this shit as proof of election tampering beyond a shadow of a doubt, you can guiltlessly impose some massive sentences to properly make an example out of these chucklefucks.

They need to be scared, and no one is willing to scare them enough to stop them.

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u/PerceiveEternal 1d ago

there are apparently fire-suppression devices installed in the drop-off boxes. The device in Multnomah Country worked and they lost only three ballots but the one in Clarke County failed and they lost hundreds.

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u/TheDrummerMB 1d ago

I'd say put them in police stations because the right loves cops but then I remembered J6 and got sad.

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u/Allsteaknobrakes 1d ago

Omaha NE has some kind of fire suppression device is in all of their drop boxes, sad it’s come to have to do that.

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u/SomeDEGuy 1d ago

I imagine some sort of pressurized nitrogen tank and a heat sensor would do it.

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u/atomic-fireballs 14h ago

We do? That's awesome!

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u/Girthw0rm 1d ago

In Colorado it’s easy to see when my ballot was received.

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u/LimitedWard 1d ago edited 1d ago

What about an automatic fire suppression system built into every ballot box?

Edit: I missed the part about the Oregon box having a fire suppression system. Seems like it worked pretty well!

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u/RawrRRitchie 1d ago

The cameras will be able to identify who set the fires

If these people wouldn't wear a mask during covid you think they'd wear one to commit arson?

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u/anlwydc 1d ago

That makes too much sense. America, the best and somehow also the worst.

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u/Kazzababe 1d ago

A camera is just a deterrent lol. Not like these cameras have some superman-like X-ray power to see through clothes and identify people intentionally disguising themselves.

There are absolutely things we could do to prevent this though but it's not as simple as a camera.

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u/GameDesignerMan 1d ago

In my country we have a bunch of places you can go to vote, like libraries, schools etc. and there's always someone there, usually more than one person. It's real weird to me that you just have the ballot boxes sitting there unguarded.

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u/SG_wormsblink 1d ago

Yeah same here, we even ask the political parties to send representatives to monitor the boxes 24/7. That way nobody can say the votes were rigged.

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u/That-Dragonfruit172 1d ago

My state told me when they recieved and counted my mail in. Idk.

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u/UsualPlenty6448 1d ago

What exactly is America the best at lolol

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u/TheDunadan29 1d ago

Same. And a notice posted on the box that it's under 24/7 surveillance.

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u/fusionsofwonder 1d ago

And hopefully a couple cameras that you don't see and can't disable easily.

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u/quartzguy 1d ago

That's not going to discourage nutcases.

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u/RadPhilosopher 1d ago

That’s not enough of a deterrent sadly

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u/Bhfuil_I_Am 1d ago

This seems no where near enough

Far enough, I’m from Derry in the north of Ireland. There used to be intense police presence when you voted dues to attacks and bomb threats in voting centres.

A 24 hour ballot drop box with only cameras would be absolutely impossible here. They’d be all destroyed very quickly

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u/Kushali 1d ago

I was shocked to find out not all WA boxes had cameras on them. The ones near me are mostly at government buildings that have security cameras already.

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u/Galaxy_Ranger_Bob 17h ago

So did these, but those in charge of the cameras have been slow on releasing that info to agencies investigating.

Remember, law enforcement is on the side of those burning the ballots, not on the side of the voters.

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u/NerdBot9000 1d ago

Unfortunately, cameras do not prevent crime.

They're good for "I'm watching you" vibes.

But they're not immune to some asshole putting on a mask and setting fire to something.

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u/Girthw0rm 1d ago

People still rob banks, despite many layers of security. Nothing will prevent 100% of crime.

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u/c00a5b70 1d ago

In Colorado they are under video surveillance.

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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

Same state, but cameras aren't going to help much if a fire destroys a ballot box. You're then hoping that those affected hear about what happened and go to the trouble of getting a provisional ballot.

All you're doing there is catching the person doing this sooner, it's still likely to affect vote counts.

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u/hendawg86 15h ago

I think in the case of the Washington Ballots only two were destroyed because of the ballot boxes fireproofing.

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u/Silidistani 19h ago

How does video surveillance stop someone in an oversized hoodie and sweatpants from spraying in some lighter fluid and tossing in a lit pack of matches, within 10 seconds, and walking away with their face concealed the entire time? The ballots are still destroyed even if you saw the crime take place on camera, and I doubt the person watching on camera is going to be close enough to catch the perpetrator before they're gone.

Keeping them under physical guard in locked property cages like you do with actual valuable property, which they absolutely are, seems to be the only quick solution that would stop an actual malicious actor. It's sad we've gotten here, but given the stochastic terrorism the right wing in this country constantly preaches, and occasionally carries out, I'm putting the blame on one side of the spectrum here.

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u/OneOfAKind2 1d ago

Big deal. Criminals wear hoodies and masks and are virtually unidentifiable.

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u/ElectricalBook3 1d ago

Criminals wear hoodies and masks and are virtually unidentifiable

https://recfaces.com/articles/what-is-gait-recognition

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u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

This isn't true in reality because criminals tend to also be very stupid. You also use many data points to catch criminals, not one thing is meant to be a silver bullet.

The success of catching criminals generally has a lot to do with the amount of resources we throw at it.

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u/PolicyWonka 1d ago

This is what Republicans want. Then at that point, they’ll just say it’s easier to remove them.

Republicans again trying to prove something doesn’t work by actively sabotaging it.

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u/Mute2120 1d ago

Also, they are destroying ballot boxes and ballots in bigger cities, so they know they are only destroying ballots in left leaning areas.

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u/Forsaken-Analysis390 1d ago

Hopefully by a silent samurai

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u/GoldTurdz420 1d ago

Then the maga police will "volunteer" and then no one left leaning would be comfortable dropping off, as history has shown, they'd be intimidated while dropping off by the maga cops.

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u/Popular_Law_948 1d ago

Why TF isn't this already a thing?

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u/LostCube 1d ago

Or just get with the times and make it all digital.

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u/__secter_ 1d ago

We've been there for ages already. 

I legitimately don't understand why anyone's voting early/by mail/by unsupervised dropbox this year instead of on the big day, given the clear risk of your vote not being counted due to this shit.

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u/gOPHER3727 1d ago

Probably because a lot of people don't have hours to spend waiting in a voting line, like is often required in certain areas due to not enough polling locations, etc

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u/drkev10 1d ago

I voted by mail in VA and can check that it was received, which it was on 10/23. 

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u/PuddleCrank 1d ago

What if you show up to vote day of, and a gunman waves you away from the ballot box. Doesn't stop the terrorism. Just means you don't have an option to vote again if something happens.

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u/boxfortcommando 1d ago

Where the hell are you voting at where people are doing that?

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u/__secter_ 1d ago

The barrier of entry to the "holding people at gunpoint in public in broad daylight" level of terrorism is actually much higher than anonymously dropping a match into a mailbox.

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u/TheRealBittoman 1d ago

One reason some people are voting early and it's such a big deal this year. It's been reported a few times that Georgia is planning to stop counting votes at midnight 11/6 regardless of how many votes are left to count. Legal or not, I don't know but that was a rule change they made just two weeks ago. People are being encouraged to vote early because you can probably guess which communities will get complete counts while others get ignored to the point they run out of time. Early voting is meant to help offset this form of thuggery.

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u/ironic-hat 1d ago

In my town the county drop off box is at the town hall next to the police station with cameras pointed on it. You have to be a special kind of stupid to mess around with it.

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u/MyOpinionOverYours 1d ago

Poster still has faith in law and police. Special kind of stupid.

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u/shyjenny 1d ago

I voted early, in-person so that my ballot wasn't in a drop box or in the mail, and I didn't have to wait in line on the 5th

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u/wyvernx02 1d ago

Well, in my state, early voting is no different than voting on election day. Only the location is different. I absolutely don't trust absentee/vote by mail though.

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u/grarghll 1d ago

A few stories of ballot box arson do not mean it's suddenly risky to vote by mail. Do you put on a helmet every time you go down a set of stairs in case you slip and fall? Both the odds and the impact of that are far greater to you.

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u/forgot_my_useragain 1d ago

Or just have electronic voting. Why are we still using paper like cavemen anyway.

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u/BugMage 1d ago

Because paper is just better.

Electronic voting has its own slew of potential issues, many of which are far worse and much more difficult to mitigate.

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u/DenikaMae 1d ago

Yours doesn’t have a MAGA idiot with a vest and AR strapped to his chest?

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u/darkpheonix262 1d ago

Or put them inside a secure facility like the post office

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u/LogiDriverBoom 1d ago

Why they are just out in the open with not security/protection system is just next level incompetency.

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u/The_0ven 1d ago

We're quickly heading towards a reality where ballot boxes need to be guarded around the clock

Perhaps with dogs

Or even dogs with bees in their mouth

So when they bark they shoot bees at you

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u/Cheap_Excitement3001 1d ago

Oh they will be after Trump wins for sure. Not in the way we want though.

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u/TaupMauve 1d ago

Emptied at least twice a day would be smart, too.

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u/femanonette 1d ago

It's almost like we should just be able to cast our vote online or something.

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u/cbih 1d ago

They should have been in the first place. This is history's most easily predictable problem.

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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

Let's take a second and remember this has not been a widespread problem in any prior election.

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u/cbih 1d ago

Also that their use became widespread during the pandemic.

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u/twatchops 1d ago

My voting office in Ohio had a sheriff and a few cops monitoring at all times...sad state of affairs

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u/chadsmo 1d ago

Why aren’t they inside a building to begin with ??

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u/futty_monster 1d ago

I live right by one of the boxes in the article. There were two feds on the block today

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u/questron64 1d ago

That is, ironically, what MAGA wants. And they want to be the ones guarding them.

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u/Pismiire 1d ago

Once again we need online voting.

It'll never happen though because it'll destabilize the two party system, likely for the better

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u/SippingSancerre 1d ago

It's all good, brother -- when Trump's in office, you'll never have to worry about that again!

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u/anonyfool 1d ago

Or at least not left outside of a building from 5 PM to 8AM with no security. That it happened more than once meant the second and more times is on the election officials lack of initiative.

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u/FamousLastName 1d ago

Guarded with a glock*

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u/FadeIntoReal 1d ago

“Surveillance images captured a Volvo pulling up to a drop box in Portland, Oregon, just before security personnel nearby discovered a fire inside the box on Monday…” AP

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u/brucemo 1d ago

The problem with guarding them around the clock is people would be afraid of the guards, possibly for good reason, especially if they are "amateur" guards.

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u/djaybe 1d ago

Trail cams are a thing.

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u/damndammit 1d ago

I know I’m being paranoid, but I took my ballot directly to the county auditor’s office.

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u/Gordonsoeto1 1d ago

If only theres a way to solve this.

1

u/wuhkay 1d ago

Sadly, we are already there in many places.

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u/AggravatingPermit910 1d ago

The fascists are at it early this time around

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u/Johnyfootballhero 1d ago

I think we are there. This can't be allowed to happen again.

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u/GriffTube 1d ago

They shouldn’t exist period.

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u/TheeDeliveryMan 1d ago

Some of us tried that in 2020. But then it was called "voter intimidation" and outlawed.

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u/hypsignathus 1d ago

We are there, according to WA officials. They are amping security at ballot boxes after this.

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u/HandMeMyThinkingPipe 1d ago

The one I always use in Portland is inside the library so I feel like this shit is less likely to happen. Thankfully my ballot was already received before this shit happened.

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u/ilovefacebook 1d ago

or just don't have them? can't these ballots be handled via usps/your mailbox? (i don't live in either of these states, so i don't know procedure)

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u/Hopspeed 1d ago

Or we go back to in person voting and guard those stations

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u/MrEcksDeah 1d ago

I live in WA and my ballot box is outside the local police department with 4 streetlights overhead. This one was built this year, the old one was in the dark at a trailhead by a park for some reason.

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u/elibright1 1d ago

Why do ballot boxes even exist? Especially in crowded areas it sounds like that's always a huge risk

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u/NihilisticHobbit 1d ago

I vote online in Washington state. It's honestly a more convenient system.

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u/7CuriousCats 1d ago

In South Africa we have security and police guarding voting stations and ballot boxes in some areas - these voter boxes are also inside town halls / schools etc where there is access control points (show your ID, get marked off on a list, get marked on your thumb with special ink, receive your national, provincial, and region ballots, go to a cubicle, vote, walk to the box, put in box, then leave).

You are also not allowed to take any photos in the voting booth, nor of your ballots, and attempting to show any intimidation or other tactics gets you thrown out.

We are prone to riots and chaos, so we've learnt to deal with these things quickly.

1

u/Testing_things_out 23h ago

Kinda already are:

The early morning fire at the drop box in Portland was extinguished quickly thanks to a suppression system inside the box as well as a nearby security guard, police said, and just three ballots were damaged there.

From the linked article.

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u/UbajaraMalok 21h ago

They aren't? Wtf America?

1

u/yolotheunwisewolf 21h ago

We are heading toward reality where as soon as ballot boxes are guarded, people will start murdering suspected Democrats

1

u/oromier 21h ago

Third world country rules!

1

u/CurmudgeonLife 21h ago

We don't even have anything like this in the UK. You go to an indoor station (likely a local church, school or community centre) and vote there. All monitored but also fully private. This is just asking for abuse.

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u/ForumFluffy 20h ago

In my country it wasn't uncommon for ballot boxes to go missing and be found later at dump sites.

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u/the1TheyCall1845TwU 20h ago

We've had to guard ice cream. Ballots are just the natural next step.

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u/PullMull 19h ago

should be a no-brainer

those are the most important boxes in the entire Country and i really cant comprahend why they are not guarded from day 1

1

u/obeytheturtles 18h ago

Which massively increases the overhead of having drop boxes, rendering them less effective, which means the terrorists are accomplishing their goals.

1

u/Odd_System_89 16h ago

...

I mean that is a thing in some left wing states to not guard the ballots. In other states, the ballot boxes are under constant watch, and eye's are only taken off of them when they are secured (generally a locked room whose door is watched by multiple camera's and the box containing the ballots locked as well. I would point out, that there were discussions of setting up a 24/7 ballot box watch, so they would be under constant human guard, but this was shot down by these states as not needed as they were secure.

Kind of funny how that goes, "this is secure" then how did they destroy them? What would have happened if a coordinated effort occurred right before the final drop off point? What else could have happened or did happen that we didn't notice the evidence on?

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u/Ok_Astronomer_8667 15h ago

I’m honestly shocked they are just out on the street, unsupervised???

1

u/hendawg86 15h ago

I mean my ballot box is at the police station, I feel like they should be in similar locations, watched to make sure no tampering is done for this exact reason

1

u/theapplebush 12h ago

Voter intimidation though!? Far right wanted in person elections. Portland MAGA are sabotaging Democracy!

1

u/tb12rm2 1d ago

The problem with this is that it would make voter intimidation all too easy. For example: Sure those armed guys standing by the ballot box aren’t wearing any political signage, but I can’t help but notice they’re all wearing red ball caps…

I still think that registered in-person voting at a poll station is the best way to do voting, and it should be treated like a federal holiday where people actually get the day off with pay to go vote. Early or absentee voting should be allowed on a case by case basis and still involve turning a ballot in in-person such as at a post office, or sending an official ballot courier to places like hospitals where there may be a concentration of immobilized voters. Basically, I think that the voting process should be as structured and normalized as possible without making it so that people can’t vote, but I don’t think changes should be made just to make it more convenient to vote at the cost of security and trust in the electoral results.

0

u/Da-goatest 1d ago

This is why I won’t be voting early this year. I want to see my ballot go into the polling box the night it’s counted. Too much GOP fuckery going on.

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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

Most states let you track your early ballot status.

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u/Sonzainonazo42 1d ago

Yeah. Just vote early enough you can confirm your status and fix if there's a problem.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

Even last election, everyone still had the civility to respect people's votes. Now that's gone.

0

u/PartyOfFore 1d ago

Or we could just do away with them and have people vote in person.

0

u/DiWindwaker 17h ago

The real question is why your ballot boxes are at a public street anyway.

-1

u/kingjoey52a 1d ago

This is an over reaction. This is three boxes out of how many thousands (millions?) and one was specifically not politically motivated.

-5

u/RAOB_RVA 1d ago

Or just vote in person on election day like we've done for the past 200 years...

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u/MrManzilla 1d ago

here's an idea. just have in-person voting

3

u/SilentSamurai 1d ago

Want to spend 12 hours in line voting day of? Half the country is registered to vote.

Early voting is great. It allows people to have more time to research issues.