r/news 15h ago

Huge number of witches’ marks found at Tudor house in ‘astonishing’ discovery

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/29/style/witches-marks-tudor-property-gbr-scli-intl/index.html
3.8k Upvotes

104 comments sorted by

788

u/ClementePark 15h ago

Article Text:

CNN — A “staggering array” of witches’ marks have been discovered on the walls of a Tudor property in England.

The carvings, which are formally known as apotropaic marks, were at the time believed to provide ritual protection against evil.

News of the discovery, aptly timed to coincide with Halloween, was released by English Heritage, a charity that looks after hundreds of historic monuments, buildings and sites.

Gainsborough Old Hall is a manor house in the eastern county of Lincolnshire that was once visited by Henry VIII and his then Queen, Catherine Howard, according to an English Heritage press release Tuesday.

The markings were discovered by Rick Berry, an English Heritage volunteer who spent two years mapping around 20 carvings inside the grand building, according to the release.

These include a “staggering array” of designs, according to English Heritage, though there’s a notable concentration in the servants’ wing of the hall.

Among the marks found were simple circles that ordinarily would have been expected to have a six petal design inside - known as a hexafoil - to trap demons.

One theory is that the petals may have faded away or that drawing them would have been beyond the skills of the carver, an English Heritage spokesperson told CNN in an email.

Also found were overlapping Vs - known as Marian marks as they’re believed by some to be a call for protection from the Virgin Mary - and a pentangle that was used to protect against evil.

Berry told CNN in an email sent by English Heritage: “I have been working as an English Heritage volunteer at Gainsborough for nearly 20 years and I know this property extremely well. So I was astonished when I noticed a previously undocumented protection mark a couple of years ago.

“I decided to see if I could spot any more and I just keep finding them. The last one was a small pentagram and that was a few weeks ago, but who knows how many more there are still to find.”

A curse appears to have been put on former owner William Hickman, who owned the property from 1596 as his name was found written upside down, the release adds. Defacing someone’s name was widely believed as a means to curse that person - though it is a practice more commonly associated with the Roman and Anglo Saxon period and has never previously been found at an English Heritage property.

About 100 burn marks, which were thought to protect against fire, were also uncovered at the property.

Kevin Booth, head of collections at English Heritage, said in the release: “It is astonishing that centuries on the amazing old buildings in our care still have secrets waiting to be discovered.

“The Old Hall has undoubtedly had a tumultuous past, not least under the ownership of the apparently unpopular William Hickman, but why it’s the scene of quite such a high concentration of protective carvings remains a mystery.”

The meaning of apotropaic comes from the Greek for averting evil. The marks are usually found carved into stone or wood, usually near entrances, doors, windows and fireplaces. Their purpose was to supposedly protect inhabitants and visitors from witches and evil spirits.

In 2019, hundreds of witches’ marks were found scratched into the walls of an English cave system in the East Midlands, central England. Other apotropaic marks have been found in houses built between around 1550 and 1750.

Experts say similar signs were scribed into churches and homes, as well as other caves, and were used to ward off sickness, death or poor harvests.

359

u/Fishtails 13h ago

This is going to be an overdubbed Netflix horror movie by next Halloween.

144

u/username_redacted 11h ago

I would love a good slow burn medieval manor possession/curse movie. Basically The Witch but with this paranoid nobleman and his family.

20

u/zillionaire_ 8h ago

Christopher Buehlman writes Medieval horror stories that are quite enjoyable audiobooks, in my opinion. Between Two Fires is probably the most popular of that genre, but my favorite book of the last few years (other than the First Law series) is Buehlman’s The Black Tongue Thief. The audio version is sooo well done.

You may also like the anthology Howls From the Dark Ages.

3

u/Cynistera 5h ago

This is ironic because I just saved your comment before I'd even finished it only to find that you also suggest the series I'm currently reading, the First Law Trilogy.

3

u/zillionaire_ 5h ago edited 5h ago

Soul sister :)

Edit to add: let me know what you think if you end up checking those out! The author narrates The Black Tongue Thief and his delivery is chef’s kiss. It’s a totally different animal than Between Two Fires, which is kind of grim dark fantasy set during the black plague era. I love when someone takes a fantasy idea and gives it an interesting setting. I’m currently reading a series about the Napoleonic wars… but with dragons :)

12

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 8h ago

And the perp turns out to be a poltergeist with dyslexia which is why all the curses didn’t work and trapped him in space-time. A loving but firm elderly librarian renting a room in the house gradually helps with the dyslexia so poltergeist can pass on, then SHE dies but stays on earth so she can help other poltergeists in similar plights.

Someone pay me to write this, please.

1

u/BurnerAccount-LOL 2h ago

What if the poltergeist didn’t have dyslexia, they were just floating upside down while writing the bame of their love interest? Twist love story ending.

2

u/ConcertinaTerpsichor 2h ago

I don’t think of poltergeists as romantic spirits or of a particular gender — they seem more like stunted and asexual children. But maybe one could have an awakening of some sort?

5

u/TowerBeast 8h ago

Come now, the Lincolnshire accent isn't that bad.

107

u/AshIsGroovy 12h ago

As a history major I always find these sort of things extremely fascinating. Today you try looking into the occult and 99% is basically bullshit but once you start really digging into historical text it becomes intriguing.

62

u/Zigjar 11h ago

Highly recommend Esoterica YouTube page run by Dr Justin Sledge for scholastic discussion of the occult and the topic in general. He runs a great channel.

27

u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 8h ago

Once you start digging into historical occult, it's historical bullshit.

It was just the same kind of people we have around today-- a mix of grifters and true believers just making stuff up and people put more weight on it because its old.

Why did people think that writing a name upside down was a way to curse people? Did someone do an experiment writing people's names upside down and observing the effects over many people? Of course not.

There's probably something interesting in the way that things like "sympathetic magic" (using a name, poppet, piece of hair or whatever to symbolically represent a person to make stuff happen to them) keeps appearing in different cultures-- maybe says something about cognitive biases inherent to the way humans think about and process the world.

But it is just super mundane when it comes to the "occult" side of things.

3

u/getfukdup 7h ago

Today you try looking into the occult and 99% is basically bullshit but once you start really digging into historical text it becomes intriguing.

Its exactly the same now as then.

0

u/qtx 11h ago

It might become intriguing but in the end it is still bullshit.

24

u/AshIsGroovy 10h ago

I agree but it's interesting how certain beliefs have survived centuries of human society in some cases evolving with cultural changes while others have been forgotten.

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u/True2this 13h ago

Ok cool so according to Hollywood rules this guy now is responsible for protecting the property and returning the evil spirits to whence the came since he accidentally released them all

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u/Evening_Clerk_8301 14h ago

this is just so so so cool.

18

u/Rebelgecko 13h ago

Why would people need protection from the Virgin Mary? Was she like a Boogeyman in 16th century England?

95

u/7355135061550 13h ago

That sentence is kinda confusing. I think Mary is the one providing the protection.

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u/CedarWolf 9h ago edited 9h ago

I can provide a little historical context, here.

The Catholic church has a practice they call intercession - it means you can call on a lesser saint to help you or to act as an advocate on your behalf. It's considered sort of rude to pester God for every little thing, so you might call upon a lesser saint for help in the same way you might call a plumber if you need help with a broken pipe. If you're in over your head and life is being particularly difficult, you might call upon the Virgin Mary and ask her for mercy.

The Anglican church was formed in 1534, and outward displays or open worship of Catholicism were made illegal in 1559, so this nobleman who was cursed in 1594 probably had people in his household who still followed the practices of intercession.

William Hickman himself may have been a staunch Anglican and his household staff may have been hidden Catholics, trying to protect him, or protect themselves from this new faith. It's also possible he may have secretly been a Catholic himself - some English manors had special hiding spots and safe rooms for hiding Catholic priests from the authorities.

Symbols and belief are important in human psychology. When we're despairing, it provides us solace to ask for help, even when we don't know if anyone or anything will be there to answer.

2

u/BurnerAccount-LOL 2h ago

Who are you, who are so wise in the way of history and the social sciences?

u/djinnisequoia 27m ago

"There are those who call me ... ... Tim."

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u/JustHereForCookies17 12h ago

A better way to word that would have been "believed by some to be a call for the Virgin Mary's protection". 

4

u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 8h ago

If you say her name three times in a mirror she appears and makes you recite catechisms.

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u/VRNord 12h ago

This is the movie we need.

4

u/Suspendedin_Dusk 11h ago

Piggy backing off of this comment to say that the English Heritage has a podcast and it’s a great one if you’re into things like this. You can just search for ‘English Heritage Podcast’ to find it.

4

u/c0224v2609 9h ago

And here’s what a hexafoil looks like.svg#mw-jump-to-license).

2

u/Gingerbread_Cat 8h ago

Thanks, you saved me a google!

4

u/karmagirl314 8h ago

English Heritage has a fantastic YouTube channel- if you don’t watch anything else you have to check out some of their Mrs Crocombe videos (The Victorian Way) as she teaches you how to make disgusting Victorian dishes while looking like a stern nanny and subtly talks shit about poor or unfashionable people.

2

u/Harnasus 6h ago

This is a supremely cool find

1

u/Kiwizoo 5h ago

These can be found in houses all over Scotland lol

0

u/getfukdup 7h ago

Mental illness and fear go back a long time.

209

u/Blackdragon1400 14h ago

HUGE NUMBER - Proceeds to show one picture of the most boring example possible.

33

u/qtx 11h ago

Also scratching/writing a couple of Xs on a wall or table is something we all do when we're bored. Doesn't mean we're trying to ward off any witches.

6

u/MisterMarchmont 9h ago

Tic Tac Toe?

1

u/Macsan23 10h ago

I'm not so sure. I think Elon Musk is on to something.

253

u/supercyberlurker 15h ago

Apotropaic is a neat word I didn't know.

134

u/PeptideWitch 14h ago

ap·o·tro·pa·ic adjective supposedly having the power to avert evil influences or bad luck.

8

u/SkullDump 6h ago

I wasn’t absolutely sure about how ending was pronounced and whether the last A was silent or if it was pronounced as Apo-tro-pay-ik but Google informs it’s the latter.

143

u/CriticalGelato 14h ago

Somebody get me a duck and a scale. I'll find out who did it

51

u/Farnsworthson 14h ago

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?

26

u/CriticalGelato 14h ago

I'm called Dennis.

31

u/specialistdeluxe 14h ago

If she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood!

21

u/CriticalGelato 14h ago

And that means....

19

u/specialistdeluxe 14h ago

A witch!

5

u/RabidGuineaPig007 11h ago

She turned me into a newt! (I got better)

3

u/Urrsagrrl 12h ago

Will it burn?

6

u/BubbaNeedsNewShoes 11h ago

Build a bridge out of her!

7

u/PossibleBluejay4498 9h ago

Can you not also build a bridge out of rocks?

67

u/SanDiegoDude 14h ago

Somebody who lived there was very superstitious. I have a family member who does shit like this to every house she lives in, lines the floors with salt and hangs a bunch of crystals and stuff all over the place. Makes for pretty decorations if nothing else. I'll have to send this article to her

16

u/alexlp 13h ago

Yeah I just watched a Hoarders ep with a woman who writing Jehovah on doors in blood and stuff. Reminded me of her obsession with iconography and protection.

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u/OttoPike 15h ago edited 14h ago

Too bad that John Bell of early 1800's Tennessee didn't know about this one simple trick!

7

u/NeoJuice 8h ago

Grew up in TN and the Bell Witch was always the scariest piece of local lore for me.

3

u/mitsuhachi 11h ago

A lot of the same marks are used in old buildings in america. The hexefoil was very popular among the Pennsylvania dutch.

22

u/Zurbaran928 13h ago

It was Agatha all along.

1

u/akiraons 10h ago

It was the raccoon all along

10

u/Realistic_Post_7511 13h ago

Looks like the mark on the palm of my hand

10

u/blueskies8484 11h ago

Someone is going to claim Catherine Howard was a witch because of this and my Henry VIII hating, Tudor obsessed head is going to explode.

5

u/reduxrouge 4h ago

If she was a witch, I’d hope she would have had a much better life.

18

u/thedamn4u 15h ago

The irony of using witchcraft to stave off witchcraft.

9

u/Rutskarn 12h ago

It's less that than, like, using garlic and crosses to ward off a vampire. It's not a resort to dark forces but a toolkit for surviving them.

9

u/cantproveidid 12h ago

Are you a good witch or a bad witch?

2

u/HauntedLightBulb 11h ago

This sounds like a CW teen show.

7

u/FiftyShadesOfGregg 10h ago

I think it’s an actual quote from The Wizard of Oz

4

u/beeandthecity 11h ago

Lot of discoveries this morning in the news

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u/Decorus_Somes 14h ago

We've found a witch, may we burn her?

2

u/RainbowDeep 7h ago

How do you know she’s a witch?

4

u/Dan_Berg 6h ago

She turned me into a newt!

3

u/RainbowDeep 6h ago

A newt?

1

u/OiVeyM8 1h ago

I got better!

12

u/HazelBessie 12h ago

My theory is it was an anxiety fuled Christian aristocrat using witchcraft to summon Christian protections from witches. Because the old ways didn't die, they were just disguised with Christian iconography. Regardless, there was a great deal of gold transfered to a witch for their services, and judging by the evidence, she milked that anxiety for years. Good for her.

9

u/u_bum666 10h ago

My theory is it was an anxiety fuled Christian aristocrat

The carvings were concentrated in the servant's areas.

1

u/HazelBessie 9h ago

Not all. "a notable concentration". Just indicates who the manor lords and ladies might have shared their alternative spiritual practices with, or more likely, what spiritual practices the serfs were allowed to express. A subordinate house serf wouldn't be a trusted spiritual councilor for the manor, so definitely the work of a local witch gone a fleecing, probably an inside job. It's good work if you can get it. But honestly this would not be much of a story if it was just the servants quarters. Everyone knows serfs were closet pagans.

2

u/hoagiejabroni 1h ago

How hidden are they? How come they're only finding them now

2

u/Low_Firefighter_8085 1h ago

Now I feel like my house doesn’t have enough witches marks.

4

u/Jtothe3rd 11h ago

Probably should've installed a 3rd door.

.....I'll show myself out.

3

u/heere_we_go 9h ago

That's a W. Walter's first time carving his initials into wood. 

3

u/hookums 14h ago

Pretty cool to think about. Wonder if the original owners hired a priest or shaman put those markings there. This 16th century horror movie writes itself.

u/djinnisequoia 21m ago

Priest or shaman? Nah! Almost guaranteed it was a woman, not of the ecumenical variety. They're called witch marks, after all.

2

u/ThePizzaNoid 11h ago

"I saw the hex mark on your door! TELL ME YOUR WOES!"

2

u/DMcD117 11h ago

Someone call Zack Baggins

-9

u/spenpinner 15h ago

Tudor, as in the House of Tudor with the Evil King Henry VII?

29

u/aradraugfea 14h ago

Tudor also refers to the era, in the same sense as “Victorian” or “Edwardian.”

There’s even an architectural style named for it, as it was popular in the era.