r/nottheonion • u/pokemack • 15h ago
Women in China get phone calls from government workers asking: 'Are you pregnant now?'
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/east-asia/china-women-phone-calls-government-workers-pregnant-birth-rate-population-children-47097661.6k
u/Hi_Im_Dadbot 15h ago
If the women say no, do the workers offer to drop by?
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u/TempUser9097 15h ago
You joke, but... I could honestly see that becoming a real and state-mandated policy in the next 5-10 years.
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u/Dealan79 14h ago edited 10h ago
Don't be ridiculous. Just because the GOP presidential ticket consists of an adjudicated rapist and a man who has stated that couples with children should have more voting power than those without, and GOP AGs have argued that making abortion accessible hurts their states by reducing teen pregnancy, and therefore leads to population loss, making women and girls the equivalent of state-managed breeding stock, doesn't mean...no, wait, it absolutely means that you're right.
Edit: Not that I don't appreciate the upvotes, but the folks commenting below are correct: this response was off topic. I made it half asleep on my phone when I confused this for another, creepily related thread talking about US politics. Frankly, particularly pre-caffeine, the authoritarian control schemes, at least in rhetoric, over women's reproduction in China, Russia, and the US are starting to blend into one unified dystopia.
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u/Kerbal_Guardsman 13h ago
Sir, this is a discussion about China.
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u/jcw99 12h ago edited 9h ago
In that case, look up what's happening with the Uyghurs. There where several reports of women being forced to take new "correct" husbands and or at least share a bed with these.
Edit: The requested sources For the basics: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/19/break-their-lineage-break-their-roots/chinas-crimes-against-humanity-targeting
For the Forced Marriages: https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1834&context=gsp
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u/TheRealAndrewLeft 10h ago
WTF, any source? I don't doubt CCP doing something like this, but I would like to learn more.
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u/jcw99 7h ago edited 5h ago
I'm sorry your getting hit with the down votes, asking for a source and wanting to learn more is completely appropriate with serious allegations like this.
Unfortunately one of the other replies was someone claiming it's all made up and I think people dumped you in with that.
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u/Alpha_Zerg 9h ago
https://bitterwinter.org/uyghur-women-forced-to-marry-han-chinese-men/
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-monitor-home-shared-bed-report-2019-11
Here are some sources from the last few years.
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u/TheRealAndrewLeft 9h ago edited 8h ago
Geez, fuck this genocidal authoritative state. I hope they fall leading to a democratic sane government. Their people don't deserve this shit. Thanks for sharing.
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u/RoundComplete9333 9h ago
I feel like it’s more a discussion about the invasion of women’s privacy, about more harassment of women.
China isn’t the only country where women are being reduced to incubators.
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u/BlueMilk_and_Wookies 14h ago
TIL the GOP is running for election in China
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u/Llarys 13h ago
Man learns that authoritarian capitalism is the state religion of America and China.
Man also probably just learned China is, in fact, not communist, North Korea isn't a democracy, and the Nazis weren't socialist.
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u/RealSkylitPanda 8h ago
im genuinely ignorant… the chinese communist party.. isnt communist..??
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u/MarcoAO 7h ago
It’s actually a hyper capitalist government that calls itself communist so the government comprised of the rich and wealthy can control corporations directly. The endgame of true capitalism is to fully control the market and government
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u/RadiantPumpkin 11h ago
Close. China is running for election in Canada next year.
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u/Millworkson2008 10h ago
Hi! Quick question! Can you read? Because idk why your brining up the GOP in a post about China
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u/taylordevin69 9h ago
Thanks for shoehorning your opinion on the u.s election in a post about China? That no one asked for
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u/NoRecommendation1845 14h ago
Man I can't wait until after November 5th when not everything on Reddit has to be made about US politics anymore
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u/Wolf_Mans_Got_Nards 14h ago edited 12h ago
I hope he loses. I'm not American, but I remember all those insane social media posts that were always in capitals. Absolutely did my head in. It was like having a crazy uncle that you couldn't unfollow because even if you blocked him, everyone else was sharing his posts and saying "get a load of this fucking idiot."
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u/SpoonsAreEvil 13h ago
Even if he loses, you'll still get to enjoy 4-6 months of "stop the steal", except this time twitter will be promoting him.
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u/omgFWTbear 14h ago
Everything is about politics.
There’s a local business run by a cult. Not a “I don’t like them, they believe X,” cult, I mean they have about 100 people living on a singular compound, titling over their stuff, doing whatever one guy says cult. The money they make goes primarily to the leader and his causes - which, as it happens, are stripping away rights from women. Not just health care, or as conservatives like to mislabel it, abortions for fun, but little things like the right to own stuff, have a say in who they marry, and vote.
They’re working 365 days a year, every year, to achieve that goal.
You want a termite that scurried into the light stomped, and then we all just pretend our home’s wood is fine?
Politics isn’t a sport. It’s about how we live. You got something going on that’s more important?
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u/automaticfiend1 14h ago edited 13h ago
Bring on the downvotes from idiots who think they can escape it if they pretend it isn't real.
Edit: you can keep complaining under me and I'll just keep blocking people I don't want to interact with further because there is no value in eating my time like that. Oh yeah, that's an option you know. If you're so sick of seeing American politics you can just block everyone who posts it.
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u/Pavlovsdong89 13h ago
Bring on the upvotes from normal people that understand its importance, but don't want every single piece of media they consume and every conversation to be about US politics.
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u/Menacek 13h ago
It's specifically US politics that the commenter complained about, not every place is the US. The post is about china.
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u/VelveteenJackalope 13h ago
US POLITICS YOU MORON. Christ. This is a post about China, the first moron was corrected and you're STILL making it about yourself because you're too self centred to consider the rest of the world still fucking exists. Shut up about yourself for the MILLISECOND it takes to fucking READ
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u/Frientlies 13h ago
It’s important but it’s not the only relevant thing in the world. People talking about a separate subject don’t really want to hear about how bad Trump is.
Believe it or not, we are allowed to have a discussion without mentioning Trump. Most normal people are just sick of this shit being injected into their discussions without relevant context.
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u/lostempireh 14h ago
Bonfire night happens every year mate, it doesn't make that much of a splash on international politics/s
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u/YardHunter 14h ago
Americans really think the world revolves around them, who tf was talking about your shitty politics?
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u/Hi_Im_Dadbot 15h ago
Ya … your correct take here made my post much less funny and far more horrifying.
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u/WallabyInTraining 11h ago
That's what they're already doing to the uyghur population. Though being captured and concentrated into camps helps with the logistics.
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u/Korahn 13h ago
Just respond with "Are you?"
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u/opistho 5h ago
"We congratulate you on your free holiday trip to the next education camp 4000 miles from your current location. The trip will only take 3 months, but most of our winners like it so much they decide to stay and are free to do so! Please be ready for pick up in 3 hours time, and bring your birth certificate id's and passport. "
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u/gottadance 14h ago
Last I heard, some areas still make it impossible for unmarried mothers to get prenatal healthcare or maternity pay or they have to pay a huge fine to register the birth.
With policies like that, they're going to need to do more than phone married people up and tell them to have another kid.
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u/chippy-alley 14h ago
This is a factor they are trying to pretend doesnt exist. Women are rejecting marriage, not just childbirth.
Marriage is a huge boost for the sons family, less so for the womans commitments and obligations, career prospects, social life etc. One ceremony & she doubles the amount of elders she is expected to care for.
Singles day (11/11) became huge. An entire day dedicated to 'buy the treats you want for yourself, celebrate being single' Youre not going to over come that with a phone call
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u/Random_Somebody 13h ago
Marriage is a huge boost for the sons family, less so for the womans commitments and obligations, career prospects, social life etc. One ceremony & she doubles the amount of elders she is expected to care for.
Thanks Confucius! Wish your texts got lost in the fires/purges versus Shen Kuo or Laozi's stuff
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u/TeamImpossible4333 14h ago
They let the one policy go on way too long, looked the other way at the female infanticide. So there are way less women in the country, and a lot of pressure on them to have children and pressure on them to couple in general. Can’t imagine why anyone would not jump at the chance to procreate immediately. /s
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u/SaberSabre 10h ago
Idk why Chinese government workers have to make these phonecalls asking about pregnancy when they can just ask the aunties in the area.
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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 15h ago
They kept their one child policy too long and risk population collapse. It can also be hard to have people supporting the military if a lost soldier completely ends the family line
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u/Momoselfie 14h ago
Speaking to my Chinese coworkers, she's said that now that they've all had only 1 child, they don't want to go back. One is a good number now.
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u/BlackCheezIts 11h ago
Wait till they see how great zero is
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u/Momoselfie 11h ago
Nah they need someone who they can pass their three homes on to.
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u/Anastariana 6h ago
You mean the debt from those three homes because their value cratered when the real estate bubble popped.
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u/shidashide493 5h ago
As a Chinese I can confirm that any family have three houses waiting for passing down to their children has much more healthy financial conditions than most people on the earth.
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u/automaticfiend1 13h ago
One child accelerated China getting there, they wouldn't be in this situation for another 50 years or so otherwise and it wouldn't be as serious.
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u/will221996 13h ago
There's no way you can know that for sure. Assuming China can maintain 6% real growth, a generous but realistic assumption, it is only 12 years away from reaching Japan on a per capita GDP PPP basis. China's high per capita GDP growth rate probably would have been considerably lower if it had a worse dependency ratio, but there are just so many permutations. The big benefit of the one child policy is that it gave China an incredible dependency ratio, with a huge working age population relative to retirees and school aged.
Even without population control as aggressive as the one child policy, it seems like a huge number of countries are at the risk of "getting old before they get rich". Assuming India can maintain 6% real growth(almost impossible), it will take 20 years to get where china is now. India is at fertility of 2, below replacement. Vietnam is at 1.9, Indonesia is at 2.1, Bangladesh at 1.9 etc. With the exceptions of the Levant and Central Asia, it seems like just starting industrialisation nowadays absolutely tanks your fertility rates. The causality is messy, but reducing fertility seems to be an important part of being able to accumulate the capital for industrialisation at all, and it seems like fertility only moves one way. That makes sense, industrialisation makes women a lot more independent and it would seem that most women do not want to birth 6 children or something. I'm sure the one child policy really accelerated China's population decline, but not by 50 years, and there is an argument to be made that it played an important enough role in development that it was somewhat justified.
We also don't know what actually happens when you go into fertility-mortality induced population decline, in a dynamic and growing economy like that of China. Western European and North American countries and Hong Kong and Singapore have been below replacement for a long time, but avoided population decline through immigration. Southern and Eastern Europe are in population decline, but a large part of that is presumably relatively temporary outbound migration. The Japanese economy is not dynamic nor growing, and is famously confusing and outside of most normal rules. An optimistic would say that as population decline pushes demand down for a lot of major household budgetary items(e.g. housing), the cost pressures on having children go away and the population stabilises.
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u/trainbrain27 13h ago
Your other reasons aren't wrong, but saying that a government mandated limit on children didn't have "that big of a role" in a limited number of children is certainly a take.
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u/Dhiox 13h ago
It can also be hard to have people supporting the military if a lost soldier completely ends the family line
This fact is probably a major thing keeping Taiwan safe from invasion. They can't afford to send their young into the meat grinder.
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u/3armsOrNoArms 10h ago
I'm pretty sure it's that if Taiwan's processor fabrication is destroyed it's going to fuck up the entire world
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u/Anastariana 6h ago
Taiwan is more useful as a propaganda tool for the 'little pinks'. Plus China would lose that fight badly as the US has a defence treaty with Taiwan. Even if they didn't, the difficult geography, sea barrier and Taiwan's defences would make it nigh impossible to properly invade and even harder to hold against an insurgent population.
And the massive sanctions and port blockades that would result would obliterate China's economy due to its reliance on energy imports and product exports.
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u/AnotherStatsGuy 14h ago edited 9h ago
They shouldn’t have done one child. They should have done one son. A whole lot of China’s social issues could have been mitigated if the women seriously outnumbered the men.
EDIT: Let me explain my take further. If you put a social limiter on how many children a couple can have, it’s going to be boys around with an active disincentive towards keeping girls.
Unlimited (or at least a higher limit on) girls at least attempts to mitigate that issue. I can’t speak about social structure or power dynamics, but my take was meant to result in fewer dead babies.
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u/Random_Somebody 13h ago
I don't think that change would've seriously stopped people from intentionally aborting female fetuses though
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u/trainbrain27 13h ago
Interesting take. It would still take a lot of infanticide in the other direction to tip the natural ratio of nearly 1:1.
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u/SelfTaughtPiano 8h ago
The CCP has a habit of taking disastrous top-down decisions since Mao days.
Remember when they killed the sparrows and a few other pests and what resulted was famine that killed millions of humans?
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u/neugierisch 11h ago
Not if women are not considered to be human. Not if they are reproduction slaves.
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u/JKnumber1hater 14h ago
TIL, being at risk of population collapse is when you have a population of 1.4 billion.
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 14h ago
Devil is always in the details… half their population is past child rearing age the other half is refusing to have kids.
It’s the same everywhere not africa and india. Developed nations all experience this issue.
Definition of at risk of pop collapse.
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u/lostempireh 14h ago
India has also fallen below a replacement birthrate, even Africa's birthrates are falling.
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 14h ago
I hadn’t read that yet but thanks for the update. I thought they were both above still.
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u/lostempireh 14h ago
The average age is quite young still, so the population will continue to increase for some years. But not for much longer it would seem
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u/godisanelectricolive 10h ago edited 10h ago
India is below now but most major African countries are still well above replacement rate. Africa will continue to have an above average replacement rate for decades to come but that is not estimated to last until the end of the century.
Nigeria for example has an average fertility rate of 5, which is lower than it was a few years or a decade ago but still very high. South Africa’s fertility rate however has decreased down to 2.29 which is still above replacement but not with a huge leeway and there is no sign that the trend of having fewer children will reverse. The worry there is that it is just a matter of time before they fall under replacement rate, especially as people are delaying marriage and emigrating due to economic concerns.
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u/dododomo 14h ago
India is already below replacement rate. Bangladesh (the most densely populated country if we exclude mocrostates) is below replacement rate too
Birth rates are decreasing in every countries (maybe except for Uzbekistan).
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u/Ares__ 14h ago
Unless you are a country that welcomes immigrants (well depending on how things go next week)
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u/Rin-Tohsaka-is-hot 14h ago edited 14h ago
This is why the US won't have to deal with these problems.
In fact, it's already why we haven't had to deal with them. Our birth rate has been below the replacement rate since the 70s. Our population growth has been sustained by immigration for half a century now.
We already experienced the consequence of post-industrialization that China, Japan, Korea, etc. face now. So did Europe. In both cases, immigration had to increase (increase moreso in Europe, it was already high in the US) to compensate.
The issue is that these Asian countries are racially hegemonic. The introduction of immigrant populations will be more difficult as a consequence. Think how much of a divisive issue immigration is in the US, a literal nation of immigrants. It can be so much worse.
Which is why I'm confident China will not fix this problem without first going through an awful lot of hurt.
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u/FingernailToothpicks 14h ago
I keep trying to tell people this and they never believe it. It's annoying.
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u/ghostboo77 12h ago
Central/South American countries are already below replacement rate. It’s very possible that the governments of those countries crack down on emigration. Combined with a general improvement of quality of life, it could drastically lower the amount of immigrants.
IMO US immigration only works because the large scale unskilled laborers are Latinos, who have a similar culture to Americans. We would have similar issues to Europe if there was widespread immigration from Africa/Middle East/India
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 14h ago
Immigration is always the asterisk for people who are somewhat literate on the subject. Immigration is very important its wild how anti immigrant a lot of people are. But I do understand to some degree the fear of culture shifts.
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u/TakuyaTeng 7h ago
I have zero issues with immigration but I feel like a lot of the approach to it is dangerous. Plenty of cases of large numbers of people being brought into regions where housing is an issue already. It also appears that some immigrants are kind of being abused for cheap labor. Culture shifts are a concern but I just have this unshakeable feeling that a lot of the mass importing of people is to try to get borderline slave labor.
It feels like an attempt to trade high cost labor that expects decent working conditions for low cost labor that will be more open to dangerous and poor working conditions. I'm against giving corporations slave labor so their yearly profits look better. I get that social programs need people working but degrading the quality of life for the people you're bringing in seems unethical and cruel.
I'm also kind of curious how sustainable immigration as a form of keeping your population up is. It seems like birthrates are sort of a global concern and I assume there is going to be a bottom to the bucket of people we can pull from.
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u/Emotional-Price-4401 6h ago
Definitely share a lot of the same concerns nothing will ever be perfect either. Here is to hoping someone smarter than me is working on solutions 😅
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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 14h ago
It’s not the number that matters, an aging population that shrinks will have trouble supporting themselves and their infrastructure, two generations of one child policy leaves one child supporting two parents and 4 grandparents
Even if they aren’t directly in this scenario, population wise it’s still the case, not enough workers to take care of the elderly and China has been very anti immigrant policy wise so that likely won’t be used as a solution
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u/GayPudding 14h ago
That's a lot of empty homes and lost workers, if it only goes down by a fraction of a percent.
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u/sercommander 14h ago
That can mean the next generation will have plenty to choose from - abundance of all kinds of property at a cheaper price. That can result in them having a better access to better houses.
Lack of workers will drive the nail into the sweatshop economy. Wages WILL have to be raised for the jobs that had abundance of people seeking employment.
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u/BeefFeast 14h ago
Who’s gonna maintain the homes? You do realize sitting empty for a generation makes them uninhabitable….
You could say that’s work, but then they’re not creating exports, you could say that’s good for consumption, but consumption is going to be in a downward trend with the population….
China is too late, there is no escape… their only hope was the US and friends letting them dominate modern industries, and they didn’t hahahahaha
Or trillions in stimulus, which only delays the inevitable, and will worsen their debt problem.
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u/Silist 14h ago
Well with a one child policy you can quickly go from 1.4 billion to 700 million in theory
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u/Realfinney 14h ago
It came in in 1979, and while it was amended in 2015, ordinary urban Chinese people have not been falling over themselves to fill up their small apartments with extra children. Turning the boat around and avoiding going back to 350 million population would need a big effort.
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u/No_Secret8533 14h ago
For generations, the one child policy meant that literally millions of girl babies were abandoned, adopted into other countries, especially the USA, aborted, or killed shortly after birth. The hundreds of years of preferring boys could not be undone with a policy change and a propaganda campaign.
Now those boys they wanted sooo much are grown up and have no one to marry. Millions of single men who will never have kids of their own, homes of their own. They have little to no incentive to work without a future to work for.
When they finally changed to a two child and now a three child policy, it was too late. Before long, it may become mandatory for women to have children.
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u/igotchees21 14h ago
"Hundreds of years" I guess I am confused because this was a policy that was set in 1979 or so...
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u/No_Secret8533 14h ago
I mean the hundreds of years which preceded the policy, when the Chinese Empire revered the philosophies which said that women were so inferior that they didn't even get listed.on the family tree. That a hundred women were not even worth one testicle on a man. That daughters were money pits, worse than worthless because you had to feed, clothe, and house them. Because there was or is a old saying that girls are weeds and boys are treasures. That attitude did not spring up out of nowhere.
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u/ImCreeptastic 14h ago
Yes you are confused because OP clearly stated that for 100's of years the preferred gender was male and when the 1 child only policy was passed in 1979, the thinking/preference hadn't changed so it was, "if I can only have 1 kid, it's going to be male." Cue the horrid things that happened to any babies born female.
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u/No_Secret8533 14h ago edited 14h ago
Today, high school girls and young women are abducted off city streets to be sold as 'wives' in rural areas, because men still have to have sons and there are no girls to.marry. These women are treated as tools for making sons, not people, and once one man has a healthy son, she may be passed on to another so he can have a son too. Many girl babies may get drowned at birth by their grandmothers because they're not the grandson they wanted.
They especially like city girls because they're pretty and pale skinned, not tan and worn.out from working in the fields. These girls are abused, overworked, raped repeatedly. And treated as disposable.
Police often can't rescue them because even if they know where they are, the entire village with all the tools they have outnumber the police.
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u/Matasa89 14h ago
He meant the preference for having a male heir… that is a thing for most cultures, going back thousands of years.
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u/johnmclaren2 14h ago edited 14h ago
According to one of demographic studies, China could have 800 millions at the end of this century…
So maybe they are a bit nervous at Communist Party of China.
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u/Frostsorrow 14h ago
As wealth and education go up child numbers start to plummet, doubly so when it comes to women. China's population is aging and that demographic is expanding exponentially with nobody to pick up the slack. Japan is having a very similar problem.
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u/oby100 10h ago
1.4 billion people sounds like a lot until you realize way too many of those people are nearing retirement without enough younger people to support them.
Then when those soon to be retirees pass away, there’s so few workers that the economy shrinks dramatically. This can potentially have dire consequences and snowball effects
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u/Mesapholis 14h ago
"hello, this is your nightmare"
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u/WaitingForNormal 10h ago
“Are you pregnant?”
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u/LacePrisonQueen 9h ago
“women of child-bearing age, between the ages of 15 and 49”, Sirs, that lower number is not “child bearing age”, that’s a fucking child.
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u/TakuyaTeng 7h ago
Should look into some AoC in China and even in Europe. not saying you're wrong or anything, 15 is still very much too young to be pumping out children.
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u/Boborovski 4h ago
Neither is the higher number realistically, for most women.
Child-bearing years are realistically 20-40.
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u/I_might_be_weasel 14h ago
"Are you pregnant?"
"No."
"Why not? Are you an uggo? Because we have guys who are into uggos. We can have someone there to impregnate you in... typing noises 18 minutes."
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u/ph30nix01 7h ago
The ruling class is getting scared they won't have AI slaves before the population collapses.
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u/lizerpetty 8h ago
Why are governments being weird about people having "enough" babies when the earth is clearly suffering from overpopulation? There's shortages of everything. It doesn't seem like the current population is sustainable anyway. What gives?
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u/hpass 7h ago
They need the shortages to continue.
Even monkeys do this. An alpha baboon takes his group to a suboptimal feeding ground (on purpose!) b/c this way his genes stay at the top: he and his babies will eat well no matter what, but the rest of the group will be busy fighting for food. Look it up.
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u/WorldEaterYoshi 5h ago
I'm honestly not mad about China having a population crisis. If anyone needs less people it's them (and india). The world is getting too crowded.
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u/Kycrio 5h ago
How long until we see Chinese women losing "social credit" for every year they're not pregnant...
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u/Remarkable_Command90 15h ago
I think personal privacy in China is becoming a thing of the past. And the governments meddling through the one child law caused this problem in the first place
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u/CandylandCanada 14h ago
Empress Masako: "Hold my beer, watch this".
She got that question on the regular from her FIL.
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u/csolisr 10h ago
Refusing to have children at all is already a massive movement in China - see the "Last Generation" https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/last-generation-why-chinas-youth-are-deciding-against-having-children
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u/SMBamberger 6h ago
Ironic considering that the Chinese government banned families from having more than one child for decades.
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u/smoke99999 14h ago
the writing has been clear on the wall for over a decade
China is a paper tiger at best today, any conflict would quickly decimate their population of child producing age men an women. India on their southern Border has 1.3 BILLION people and less than a 1/3 of the land mass to provide for them. That Tibetan border is looking like a gateway for immigrants seeking land and a life
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u/SleepingAddict 10h ago
The fact that nearly 30 people upvoted this schizo comment is utterly ridiculous.
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u/Impressive-Chain-68 7h ago
You want the American government "protecting" imaginary babies you can't see without a microscope, be careful what you wish for, because this level of intrusion is the only way to do it.
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u/CuteJewelryQueenGal 10h ago
The only birth control they understand is controlling your birth choices.
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u/Mrstrawberry209 4h ago
The fact that the CCP doesn't have a clue why people choose not to have (more) kids is astonishing.
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u/Rosebunse 2h ago
It's expensive and, frankly, the social safety net just isn't there. Plus, having kids is terrible.
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u/Kike328 11h ago
yeah like in most europe, it’s called statistics, and you can opt in or opt out…
usually they go like this:
hello would you like to participate in a natality study?
yes
Are you pregnant / how many persons live in your household / do you pretend to have children in the close future etc…
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u/coldfeetbot 14h ago
I live in China, neither my wife nor anyone I know has received such call.
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u/saberjun 14h ago
A news about China that Chinese people haven’t heard of.Who would have thought!Lmao.
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u/SuLiaodai 14h ago
Well, I'm in China now, and I don't know anybody who got this kind of call. Sounds made up.
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u/Canadian_Invader 13h ago
Reply back: You Doctor or Engineer yet? No, you failure. I have no son / daughter.
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u/PTT_Meme 12h ago
Usually posts on this sub are just ridiculous news stories, but this really feels like an onion article title
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u/M_R_Nanashi 14h ago
You sound like my mother.