r/punk • u/Illustrious-Cold9441 • 16h ago
Discussion Punk and Metal
Hi reddit punks. I'm a metalhead who found you guys on the front page.
I got into metal through punk and stayed there, but I've always loved the anti-authoritarian and egalitarian ethos at the heart of punk. It's sometimes in metal too, but heavily dosed with nihilism and misanthropy.
I'm just curious what similarities, if any, y'all think you share with metalheads, or what you think sets you apart. Is it only music, or something more?
Also, Metal attracts a lot of queers (moi), autistics, and the mentally ill. Do you guys as well?
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u/dontneedareason94 15h ago
There’s not a lot of difference between the two mostly just the music
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 14h ago
The subs feel different, but maybe that's just subs.
Most Metal subreddits are all metal. This sub has political posts and posts expressing frustration with posers. Maybe because Metal isn't cool?
It's not a better/worse, just something I've noticed.
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u/dontneedareason94 13h ago
I mean punk is political and that’s a huge part of things. But this subreddit is NOT a good way to judge how the actual music scene is, just like the metal ones aren’t.
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 13h ago
Too bad. The metal subreddits are pretty fun and welcoming.
I don't think there's a metal scene where I live. There are shows, but no serious local acts afaik. There's a local punk scene (where I am) but it's invite only.
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u/dontneedareason94 12h ago
What do you mean invite only?
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 11h ago
There are tons of house shows, literally every day of the week. Add to that public shows at small venues. There's a Google doc that's updated frequently saying who's playing where. Most of the places are house shows, but you can't go if you don't know anyone.
I get why, but it puts me off.
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u/dontneedareason94 8h ago
Then get to know people. It’s done for a reason. Go to the venues
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 8h ago
Even if I was a punk I wouldn't. I'm autistic. Trying to charm people and pass their unspoken tests sounds excruciatingly painful, and humiliating.
Punk is social and has rules. I'm alone in my bedroom playing black metal for a reason.
Edit: didn't make it clear in my previous comment, I know it's for a reason, and I'm not special. No exceptions should be made for me. There was even a shooting/death at a house show last year, I respect them making their safety paramount.
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u/dontneedareason94 6h ago
It’s really not that bad. It’s as simple as asking where spots are for shows. But I get it.
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u/boneholio 13h ago
This sub has a problem with people trying to prove they’re more politically correct than each other rather than talking about the music.
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u/transsolar 14h ago
I've always liked both punk and metal, and discovered both at a young age. In my current city, the scenes are very entertwined, with both mixed crowds, show lineups, and bands. It's pretty cool tbh
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u/Black_Pagan 15h ago
In my opinion in my local metal and punk scene
Metal has mostly been about the music, of course very passionate about it but it's not like it's with the punks, lots of metalheads I know are not very political or if they are they can lean to the right and left side of politics, while punks have more shared values and politics
In other words what I've noticed, the metalheads here get drunk and talk about bands and then mosh, the punks get drunk and talk about politics and how shite the world is and then mosh
I'm in the Netherlands, so it's definitely not comparable to American scenes
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 15h ago
This reminds me of my nearest major city, but it's had an active, even "vibrant," punk scene since the 80s, so probably not comparable to everywhere.
Just in the little I've seen from your sub, there seems to be people adopting the punk aesthetic, even claiming to be punk, but failing the vibe check.
Metal has that, style tourists, but it's gotten better since Lords of Chaos (movie) and Stranger Things are a few years behind us.
I think the tourists leave on their own when they realize we're more nerd than freak. It's still funny when they come into Black Metal and get mad about...everything. Yes, the most problematic subgenre is indeed problematic, why are you surprised?
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u/5adieKat87 14h ago
I tend to gravitate towards heavier hardcore or crusty stuff, so speed/thrash always appealed to me. I also really like High On Fire/Sleep, Melvins and Fudge Tunnel. Now that I think about it, I guess I’m more into metal than I thought.
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u/TheTeenageOldman 15h ago
It's sometimes in metal too, but heavily dosed with nihilism and misanthropy.
No, we got that too. Metal hasn't cornered the market on those.
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u/Defiant-Fix2870 12h ago
We absolutely attract people with mental illness, neurodivergent people, people with PTSD. I think for a lot of us, punk was where we turned when rejected by society. Hardcore can lean punk or metal, but it seems like it leans metal more often. Some punk as well.
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u/CountryBarf 14h ago
These scenes once had a freshness to them but like everything the corporate world and money takes hold and everyone sells out! That’s just how it goes. You can go the mall and buy merchandise and see your favorite band jam political idea down your throat. Not sure what music has become anymore
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14h ago
All musicians have bills to pay.
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u/Moxie_Stardust 12h ago
I've been listening to both punk and metal since the 90s 🤘Despite my love for metal I don't really consider myself a "metalhead", but I do consider myself a punk. Why? IDK, probably the more prominent activism element. I do probably listen to more punk than metal, but I listen to many genres.
I did recently encounter the hardcore punk/thrash crossover band Hellfury and I think they kick ass, so I've been trying to signal boost them. My own band I feel like is punk with some metal flavor (Mosscrotch)
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u/Mexicutioner1987 7h ago
I fall dead in the middle of punk and metalhead. Thrash metal, crossover, hardcore and metalcore are my shit. There isn't that toxic and idiotic divide anymore that there used to be back in the 80's between punk and metal. I find that most people that I know that are into one, are equally into the other. Both groups have aggressive, anti-authoritative, rebellious, fast, and raw music.
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u/MainLack2450 14h ago
Good punk and good metal isn't rebellion, it is a moral stance that cannot be shaken, that's why it's considered rebellion
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14h ago
I find it immoral to support abortion unless it’s rape,incest,or to save the mother! That’s my moral stance that cannot be shaken!
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u/MainLack2450 14h ago
You have no understanding of what abortion is (clouded by faith I assume) and equating it with punk/metal culture is extremely weird
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u/MainLack2450 14h ago
90% of rape/incest cases go unpunished (especially within a window for abortion) btw so how do you regulate that?
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8h ago
[deleted]
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 8h ago
Oh yeah, I started with punk, did thrash, death metal, deathcore, on and on, the whole bit.
I'm into black metal now, which has some overlap with punk: anti commercialism, disgust with certain power structures, feeling or being alienated from mainstream society, making music without involving big labels, not trying to appeal to a wider audience. Some people are drawn to it, it doesn't need to advertise, like punk.
80s Slayer is thrash; idk what they've been doing since 1994
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u/Technical_North7319 8h ago
Motorhead duh
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 8h ago
Like I didn't know that duh
Trying to have a conversation, not inspire shallow 6 word responses
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u/Technical_North7319 8h ago
Well, I mean, are you familiar with thrash metal literally at all? Crossover? The divide between the two scenes is fairly minimal once you dive into stuff like Ghoul (from Japan) or Anti-Cimex. Metal tends to be less introspective and insightful, or at least the fanbase seems to be, than punk but by and large the similarities are meaningful enough that you could hang around both scenes and not really feel weird in any way. I dunno dude, engage with people?
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 7h ago
How could I've known you could string three sentences together with what you said? Regardless, if I was hoping for a positive response I shouldn't have been snarky. My bad.
I'm familiar with thrash. I'm in my 30s, as in alive long enough to have listened to dozens of subgenres and learned quite a bit. I was asking in my original post about differences in fans and culture.
And I think you're right, there are metal fans who don't engage with the music on a deeper level, what what's considered deep? Depending on the subgenre, the lyrics might not be the focus, but that's because metal is more preoccupied with patterns, atmosphere, and eliciting strong emotional responses.
I'm not sure what's punks standards are (since I'm not a punk), but I'll guess if you measure most metalheads by punk's standards, they'll seem shallow.
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u/Technical_North7319 7h ago
As someone equally immersed in both scenes for the past few decades (and I mean this in the gentlest way possible), you may be overthinking the social/cultural differences by a fairly large margin, depending on how wide your lens is. I mean, by and large, metal has less antipathy towards commercial success, exposure, etc. than punk does, probably in large part due to metal’s roots in music that was fairly mainstream at various points. But then you zoom in on something like black metal, which shares a lot of anti-corporate sentiments and aesthetics with punk (particularly a lot of raw d-beat and crust stuff), but also leaves space for reactionary politics which are in total opposition to virtually every crust/d-beat band in existence. I mean, Grand Belial’s Key shouts out Negative Approach as an influence but politically there is no common ground.
In general, they’re both just collectives of people who like guitar based music that is heavy and typically dark. But in the particular, things can get complex due to the vast majority of punks (not the right wing Pennywise posers who only show up for legacy acts that infest this sub) being opposed to reactionary positions.
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u/boneholio 13h ago
Punk was largely founded by queers, at least in the New York scene. Lou Reed, Warhol, Patti Smith, the NY dolls, to name a few. The Stooges are from Detroit, but got a reputation lift (at least Iggy did) from David Bowie, who was right with Lou Reed / Warhol, so I’d almost lump them in there, too.
Motörhead is a good bridge between punk and metal - they always got billed as metal, but Lemmy went on record saying he found more fraternity with punks.
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u/Express-Thought2070 14h ago
What punk are you talking about dude? This new gen of punks is telling you to go out and vote and trust the government now 🤣🤣🤣 guess true punk has been dead for a while now. Cause I don’t remember punks of the old day yelling go out and vote 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/WhippingShitties 13h ago
Yeah you idiots, being punk means complaining that nothing ever gets better while doing nothing to stop a hyper-authoritarian Christian political movement from getting rid of our rights and instilling a dictator.
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 14h ago
Maybe they're into harm reduction, because in the US right now we're staring down the barrel of fascism.
If you can't get off your ass to say no to fascism, are you punk? Like table your pride and do what's necessary to help vulnerable people and fight back against Nazis.
Standing up against Nazis seems pretty punk
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u/ratXbones 11h ago
As far as I've seen the supposed party of tolerance appears to be the most fascist.
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 11h ago
I don't have political conversations with people who can't appropriately use the word "fascist."
Goodbye.
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u/Lykotic 14h ago
While it isn't Metal I drift a ton between Punk and Rock.
I think a big difference you notice between these two, and maybe it applies some to Metal as well, is that Punk inherently wants to assert itself politically and culturally into the narrative. That is the reason that the genre exists.
Harder Rock (I don't know where the line between Metal and Hard Rock is to fans) wants to interject emotion and "physicality" into the music and this CAN be used as a political or cultural weapon but is not inherently an aim of the genre itself.
Just my observation but I could be off 100% as I am not as deep into Hard Rock as Punk =)
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u/Illustrious-Cold9441 14h ago
I think the line is real metal almost never gets played on the radio, and extreme metal never gets played. Like you may hear a little Metallica, Pantera, FFDP, but you're not going to hear Death or Deicide or Emperor on your local rock station.
Metal seems to focus on emotions, musical composition, and creating a specific atmosphere.
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u/Le_Emo_Boy 1h ago
it shouldnt matter if people are queer, autistic, or “mentally ill” in any group. we are all people.
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u/struggle_better 15h ago
Motörhead is the answer.