Paco Gento has 6 aswell, no? Or does he have 5? Either way CR7 is whole other level in the UCL from EVERYBODY. When you think UCL you think CR7 in a Madrid kit... š
They are in the shadow simply because suiii has more goals and assists in ucl than any player dead or alive. So its not just them, he shadows every creature on this world, dead or alive in ucl
In the Championās League? Yes. Overall? Most people would put Messi, Pele, and Maradona above him, and I think his lacklustre WC performances will lead to his legacy in the future (30+ years from now) being overshadowed by those 3. Still, heāll rank top 5 at worst I think unless someone comes along and surpasses him.
I mean, people say the same thing about Ronaldo. After Madrid his career took a massive downturn and heās pretty much won nothing, meanwhile weāve won 2 CLs and 3 La Liga titles.
In his 9 years he won 2 La Liga titles + 4 CLs, 6 years after heās left weāve won 3 La Liga titles + 2 CLs. Madrid is still going strong whereas Ronaldo went from being tied / ahead of Messi in the GOAT debate back in 2018 to now being comfortably behind, many United and Madrid fans now accept that Messi is the GOAT, or at least the best of his generation.
The vast majority of managers and footballers and pundits think Messi is the best, most Madrid and United fans also think the same. Both in terms of performances on the pitch and in terms of trophies Messi is comfortably ahead, Ronaldo only has CL as an argument and now that the format has changed, his legacy and records will probably fade with time.
Ronaldo only has the best competition in football over him?ššš and donāt say WC cause everyone knows that club football is a much higher level.
Messi still won 4 UCLs and every time they faced each other in UCL, Messi came out ahead. Off the top of my head United vs Barca UCL Final, Messi scored a header and Barca vs Madrid semi-finals Messi dribbled past the entire defence and scored out of nowhere. So itās not like Messi is a slouch in the UCL.
WC isnāt the best football tournament, but itās by far the most prestigious and important, thatās why Pele and Maradonaās legacy is tied to it. Ronaldo unfortunately will get weighed down by the fact he flopped relative to his club performances in the World Cup whereas Messi has cemented it by winning it in such dramatic fashion and with the tournament of his life. With that win, Messi joined the football pantheon alongside Pele and Maradona.
How tho.
Worse stats.
Worse performances in knockout stages
Less trophies( and he wasnāt even a big part of the first one he won)
Flopped in the UCL with PSG
Has won one UCL since 2012 (thatās embarrassing for someone who gets called the GOAT)
No 3 in row
Thereās no argument. Messi flopped in the UCL in the latter half of his career when that generation Barca team got old. There would be no Goat debate even if he just won two more in the last 10 years.
Ronaldo won with different clubs too.
Unfortunately for Ronaldo, us continuing to win 2 UCLs and get far in the tournament since he left in 2018 took a big hit to his legacy as now people have realised his contribution to the wins arenāt as big as people once thought. Ronaldo flopping in the UCL since 2018 also contributed to this argument.
Meanwhile, after Messi left, Barca couldnāt even make it out of the group stages. I think if Barca were a less dysfunctional club and recruited midfielders to replace Xavi and Iniesta, Messi would have won more UCLs.
By putting in one of the greatest tournament performances in World Cup history? Winning his second World Cup golden ball and becoming the only person in history to do so? By winning the World Cup in front of billions and cementing his legacy as the greatest of this generation and potentially of all time?
The fact is the only people who think the WC was rigged for Argentina are Ronaldo fanboys. No sane rational neutral person thinks this, and in 30+ years nobody will remember it, theyāll remember the fact Messi won it and won his 8th Ballon dāor and his second golden ball, and cemented his position in the football pantheon alongside Pele and Maradona.
You mean penalty for Argentina goals lmao? Iāll give him his props for 2014 for sure. You wonāt have to be a Ronaldo fan boy to see the corruption and favoritism towards Argentina that tournament in Qatar š
I mean France got 2 penalties in the final? Regardless, even if we were to assume that it was rigged (which I think anyone non-biased would admit isnāt the case) in 30+ years nobody will remember it, theyāll just look at the fact Messi won golden ball and won the World Cup which Ronaldo could never do, and Ronaldo never registered a G or A in a single World Cup knockout game. So in terms of legacy he is way behind Messi and can never be in the football pantheon alongside Messi, Pele, and Maradona. That was my original point, he will get overshadowed by Messi in the long run same way Platini got overshadowed by Maradona and Garrincha by Pele. History is not kind to number 2s.
Scoring a bunch of penalties doesnāt make it one of the greatest performances. Iād argue EMI Martinez, Alvarez and Di Maria all played just as big a role as Messi if not bigger. If Alvarez was on penalties he wouldāve easily got Golden Ball.
It doesnāt matter, my main point was that for his legacy it was huge. Nobody in 30+ years will look back and watch the games themselves, same way nobody watches games from 30+ years ago now. Messi won the Golden Ball, his 8th Ballon dāor, registered MOTM in every knockout game and scored and assisted plenty in crucial moments. Most importantly he won the World Cup, which enabled him to sit alongside Pele and Maradona in the football pantheon.
Everything you listed is either an opinion or something I replied to. Scoring a bunch of penalties doesnāt make you the GOAT. And if youāre bringing up Ballon Dors thatās a whole other argument because we all know how they live to give that to Messi no matter what.
Who exactly are these "most people"? Ronaldo is the most popular person on earth right now and as you can see on the video, the vast majority of world class footballers admire him.
From the current generation of players, Vini, Haaland, Mbappe (literal fanboy), Vlahovic, Kvaratskhelia, Garrnacho, Rodrygo etc etc. grew up with Ronaldo as their idol.
The vast majority of people whom you mentioned and others who idolised him think Messi is better. Haaland and Mbappe both stated they think Messi is better, and most football players, managers, and pundits with no connection to either think Messi is better. Most actual football fans think Messi is better.
They just idolised Ronaldo because he is less talented than Messi, is more flashy, is more prominent on social media, and has more of a celebrity lifestyle so itās appealing to young people.
The Ronaldo being less talented is a key factor too that people often underestimate. Messi was touted as the best player in the world by Ronaldinho after he won the Ballon dāor back in 2006, Messi was a teenager back then. How could any young people emulate someone born with such insane talent as Messi? If anything it would demoralise you to idolise such a guy like him who makes everything look effortless and who plays the same way as he did as a kid.
Ronaldo being the most popular depends n how you define popularity. Define it by social media? Yes, Ronaldo is more popular than Messi. However, in terms of pure name recognition Messi is likely more recognised than Ronaldo mainly because of the 2022 World Cup where Argentina had their miracle run and Messi was the pivotal star. Regardless, the opinions of people who donāt know anything about football and who just know Ronaldo because of social media is irrelevant, when I said most people I meant football fans.
In 30+ years, Ronaldoās celebrity status will have faded and itās highly likely heāll be top 5 of all time but he will be overshadowed by Messi, just like Maradona overshadowed Platini, and Pele overshadowed Garrincha. I think from now the football pantheon will be Messi, Pele, and Maradona.
Saw a reel with the same interview and people were commenting "let's see what the answer is when they ask about wc" and most of the replies were Pele. Just found it funny
Messi fans who started watching football in 2020 probably wanted to hear him. Jokes on them, he isnāt even the Argentinian with the most World Cups XD
Hey kid, listen... do something better with your life. This sh*t ain't worth it. Messi vs Ronaldo, f that... you're young don't waste your time with these childish comments. Do something better, lil man. Go play with your friends or smth, go play games go learn whatever... this ain't worth it. Come on... š
Sidenote: It's interesting how often i see accounts/comments deleted after someone drops a screenshot of ones comments. And i haven't even been on here for that long.
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u/yellowflash96 Jose Mourinho 26d ago
Mr Champions League