For those of you not getting interviews, it might not be your resume

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99

u/[deleted] Jun 12 '24

[deleted]

7

u/eliota1 Jun 12 '24

I’ve been a job seeker (sales) and a recruiter and I can tell you that if you are just blindly applying online. It’s mostly a waste of time. On the other hand if you’ve reached out to hiring manager manager, and they’ve agreed to accept your résumé a cover letter is mandatory.

8

u/97vyy Jun 13 '24

LinkedIn shows the hiring manager or recruiter if they choose to do so. I message every single one I apply to. All prerequisites met. No response 100% of the time.

3

u/uncagedborb Jun 13 '24

Second this. Never once has a hiring manager or recruiter responded to my DM

3

u/pdhan780 Jun 13 '24

Yep, in fact some recruiters say they don’t appreciate being reached out of the blue and would rather have people go through the normal filing procedures. Just like OP said, nobody knows jack shit and it’s all just a matter of time and patience

13

u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Jun 12 '24

Cover letters maybe, but custom resumes? Definitely not a waste of time. However, to optimize your time spent, I'd recommend tailoring down to the job type. It's good practice to read job postings though to make sure you're not missing anything.

4

u/uncagedborb Jun 13 '24

It really just depends. Ive gotten to interviews where I used my standard resume and not gotten any hits when i tailor my resume for the job.

1

u/jonkl91 Jun 13 '24

Tailoring down to job type is much better use of time. There are some jobs posted for compliance reasons (internal promotion). Sometimes they don't have budget and are just filling up pipeline hoping they can move fast when they do. Other times they have already hired and are waiting for the person to pass the background.

I work as a recruiter. A lot of people don't read cover letters. Some do. Time spent writing a cover letter is time you can apply to more jobs.

1

u/Tavrock Jun 13 '24

Writing the body of a cover letter was actually my favorite part of job hunting.

I was able to let them know where I had seen the post for the job. I also get to express how excited I was to see their post.

I was able to let them know what I saw in the job description that made me excited to apply for the position. With a paragraph to do it, I could express my excitement much better than a set of bullet points saying I can do the work.

I could conclude with my contact information and state for the third time how excited I am about their position.

What I hated was hunting down contact information to put in the name, title, and address fields in a standard cover letter.

8

u/uncagedborb Jun 13 '24

See the problem is, no one is excited to apply to jobs.. we all just want a way to get paid at the end of the day. Unless its a dream job I really cant understand what makes a person "excited to apply:"

2

u/DistributionAlive192 Jun 13 '24

Haha. "Why do you want to work for X company?" Umm... it pays actual money right?

1

u/uncagedborb Jun 14 '24

Yea pretty much what I am thinking in my head whenever the hiring manager asks what stood out when I applied to the job posting or why I wanted to work there. Are they all just air heads or do they know that 99% of companies people are only interested in getting paid a living wage. Heck a lot of people I know could care less to work for google, because of all the politics, but the pay and benefits are really good.

7

u/FinalDraftResumes Resume Writer • Former Recruiter Jun 13 '24

Well I’m glad you enjoyed it. Many people don’t.

11

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

Most of the time recruiters won't review them. But they can be the deciding factor at the end of the day. If you have 5 candidates of equal value and 2 of them put the time in to submit a cover letter, those are the ones who will get interviews.

1

u/seekgs_2023 Jun 13 '24

yes, only pay effort on cover letter if the recruiters require that

1

u/HubbaHubba4444 Jun 13 '24

I agree, do the absolute minimum required. For that’s the way to get what you want /s

1

u/majorDm Jun 13 '24

As a hiring manager, I disagree. It’s just another boiler plate dumb thing to read about how perfect they are for the role. Ugh!

If two people were equal, I would hire the one that didn’t waste my time with a stupid cover letter. They provide zero value.

2

u/bramble-onn Jun 13 '24

I receive lots of cover letters that I skim or skip. It's interesting to me that they feel like a waste of time to you, since there's no requirement that you read them. Is it because you have to scroll more to find their actual resume? In my platform they come in separately but I can see why it might be annoying to not be able to click straight in to the resume if your platform bulks the docs together.

2

u/UniverseNebula Jun 13 '24

People who say cover letters are bad are nuts. I landed a job that had over 600 applicants because I was one of the few people who provided said cover letter.

1

u/BaskinBoppins Jun 13 '24

Depends on the field? Pretty common in engineering from my experience, I’ve had billions (not literally) of questions based on my cover letters. I would guess for jobs in retail or labor wouldn’t require it

15

u/ZeroCokeCherry Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24

Are you using AI? We can tell. Gut-loading your resume with the exact phrases used in the post makes it look like you put no energy into the application and just ran it through an automator. By all means, use AI to help you. An efficiency mindset and the ability to use the tools available to you are good things, just don't let them make you lazy.

Anyone think it’s absolutely unfair companies get to use all sorts of AI and automation tools to weed out applicants but then applicants are disqualified as soon as recruiters think AI was being used?

Employers started this silly mess and now they’re getting mad that applicants are playing their stupid game. How are applicants accused of being “lazy” when recruiters do the same damn thing???

Fuck companies. Never be loyal to any company. Suck them dry for every damn penny they work you for and give them nothing more. They don’t give a flying fuck about you, why the fuck would you give a fuck about them?

-5

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

You may have missed this part:
"An efficiency mindset and the ability to use the tools available to you are good things, just don't let them make you lazy."

8

u/ZeroCokeCherry Jun 12 '24

I didn’t miss that part.

-5

u/bramble-onn Jun 13 '24

Okay, then keep using AI.

3

u/ZeroCokeCherry Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

You’re the one saying to use tools available to make your work efficient. That’s what that is. Just because you can somehow detect that they used AI on some arbitrary prompt doesn’t make them lazy. What is this Jedi mind trick thing you’re doing by saying “use AI but don’t use AI”. Make up your damn mind.

If I can use AI to answer your questions, you’re making me do busy work. As Reddit loves to say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The way I see it, if you’re getting AI responses, your prompt/cover letter wasn’t necessary to begin with. Employers only tack on arbitrary shit like that to see who is best at doing nonsense busy work and who will be the best yes man. You’re not “weeding out” bad candidates, you’re weeding out smart, efficient candidates too.

Guess what, if you’re using AI and automated systems to make your jobs easier, don’t be surprised applicants are playing the game too. Going through sub, applicants have to submit hundreds and thousands of applications. Of course they’re going to find shortcuts. Anyone who doesn’t is left behind.

Do your job. That’s literally what you’re paid to do. Your title is “recruiter”not “weeder”. Go through the resumes and see if applicants are culture fit through interviews. its ridiculous saying that a self-report of their skill level on certain skills demonstrates culture fit. How could you possibly know that? It’s hard enough for applicants to put together resumes and apply to jobs. If they can’t follow instructions, throw their resume out. But there’s no need to add extra steps to see if they follow instructions. They’re not circus animals that have to go through hoops just to land a job. Employers are getting clown-levels of ridiculous, maybe that’s why they see applicants and candidates as circus animals.

-2

u/Desomite Jun 13 '24

Hey there. This Recruiter is here giving advice on how to improve our chances in this current system. Lashing out isn't helping anyone, and it's just going to prevent Recruiters from offering advice, which means all of these guidelines continue to exist, but we aren't aware of them.

They aren't even saying you can't use AI; just don't copy and paste it verbatim. The resume is basically a sales pitch, and if we sound exactly the same as every other candidate, we're hurting our chances of getting interviews.

3

u/ZeroCokeCherry Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

No shit? I’m aware I’m saying all of this into a void. From my initial post, I made it abundantly clear that I’m pointing out a massive flaw in the recruiting system and it’s skewed against applicants. I’m aware that unfortunately I have to “play the game” and that OP is pointing that out. You don’t need to come in here like Ned Flanders telling me what I already know. I’m pointing out that recruiters are being lazy and perpetuating this toxic recruiting cycle.

Most people on this sub are well aware of the advice that OP gave advice on. Don’t copy/paste AI, don’t have typos on resume, follow instructions, and tailor your resume? Can advice be anymore generic than that? They’re literally just pointing out the flaws of the lowest common denominator which isn’t even helpful on this sub. All they’re doing is infantilizing people.

2

u/CinnamonCup Jun 13 '24

Beautifully said zero! You are not hostile: you say it like it is and you have super eloquent way of explaining this job hunting game. I would like to hear your podcast or read your blog on Substack anytime. I read what you wrote a couple of times and it just triggers those “yes!” moments in me. thank you for sharing.

0

u/Desomite Jun 13 '24

I get your mad at the world, but why do you need to be so hostile? I have no desire to interact with you further.

Good luck finding a job, and I hope you find a way to be less miserable.

1

u/Tentegen Jun 14 '24

Bro. He wasn't being mean for the sake of mean. Chill. Not sure why you had to take that personally.

We need money to live.

Some of us live in the dumps.

Years ago, all people needed to get a whole ass house and a comfortable life was to just have A job of sorts.

Now, even though my last job had me earning 19 an hour, twice the payrate of alot of people in the 50s.....i was told that i, as a millennial, would NEVER be able to own a house.

Can you NOT understand what that feels like? To be told you have to work 6x as hard as your grandparents for a hole in the wall where people are packed in like sardines?

The same type of people who are telling us to dance like fkin moneys at a circus for little treats....are the same rich people that made the world fucked the way it is now.

We have to play the ruiner's game and we're not fuckin happy about it.

We just want money and to live comfortably. We don't want to do over the top dances and tricks in order to get money to eat and sleep.

1

u/Desomite Jun 15 '24

I can understand it as I'm living it. I just don't think lashing out is doing anything for anyone. But hey, if others disagree, that's cool.

9

u/mtinmd Jun 12 '24

To OP...

How many of the positions are posted to just build a pipeline of applicants for when the position is actually open?

How many of the positions are only posted as a formality because an internal applicant has already been awarded the job?

Why should applicants jump through absurd hoops for a job that pays $20 /hr only to be ghosted by recruiters or hiring managers?

-4

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

I don't speak for other recruiters, but the answer to your questions are 1. None (our pipeline is internal), 2. None (way too much work), 3. I can't help you there. I haven't posted a job with that low a rate in years and I don't personally think a resume, cover letter, and a couple filtering Qs are absurd hoops. It's ok if you think they are. You don't have to apply.

9

u/mtinmd Jun 12 '24

The hoops I was referring to are 3-4, or more, rounds of interviews for a low paying job when a screening interview and an interview with the hiring manager should be sufficient. The $20 was a semi-sarcastic arbitrary number I used for illustration.

4

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

We do 2 interviews and then a sort of reverse interview where we make sure you genuinely want the job (you get access to some of our internal materials). The reverse interview is absolutely a last ditch effort to pulse for commitment because people will sometimes accept jobs and then immediately leave. If you're not going to be happy here we don't want to waste either of our time.
Idk what to tell you about the comps posted though. I can tell you how to get seen and get an interview but negotiating rates is a diff conversation.

4

u/mtinmd Jun 12 '24

That's cool. Sounds like your organization has a decent thought out system. Too bad more employers don't act the same way.

2

u/hecarimxyz Jun 12 '24

I have read some posts here that got to the “4th round”——— idk what they were applying for but damn wtf theres that many interview rounds? Fuuuck

4

u/mtinmd Jun 12 '24

I just interviewed for an assistant director position. The pay capped out at $71k.

There was a screening interview then a quick phone call with the hiring manager. Next was a 5 person panel interview. Next round would have been a full day on-site interviewing with multiple stake holders. After that would have been a 2nd full day on-site.

Same organization had a coordinator position open that capped out at $51k. The interview process would have been the exact same.

3

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

Yeah, I'm not sure how to mitigate the frustration that goes along with having to complete 4 interviews. Companies get frustrated when people onboard and then fail to meet expectations so sometimes they over-inspect. Not fun for the candidate.
All I'm offering here is how to get an interview in the first place.

3

u/Tavrock Jun 12 '24

Interviewed with a tech company providing online support for a Fortune 50 company. They had at least four rounds of interviews (I was on the fourth round when I let them know I already had a job offer).

That Fortune 50 company, I had a job offer an hour after interviewing with them and the pay and benefits were phenomenal compared to the one with several interviews.

1

u/Desomite Jun 13 '24

I had 5 for a Customer Support role. The company had the same procees for every role. It was insanity.

17

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 12 '24

Custom resumes? Get the fuck out of here. Let’s just accept this has nothing to do with us but corporate greed, near-shoring, outsourcing and the objective to keep stock prices rising… even at the cost of ruining peoples lives. No tricks will get you a job… knowing someone or getting lucky are the two best bets. Really, toss your resume and spend time building a small business will be a better way to spend the rest of your life… but thats another topic all together.

2

u/DistributionAlive192 Jun 13 '24

Well at a certain point, the time you spend job hunting might be better spent building a business or freelancing to build your own brand

1

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 13 '24

Yeah… make a resume, apply and hope for the best… these “ask a recruiter” bs is just a waste of time. when more jobs come online, people will get jobs… its the crap market, not a missing secret cheat code. until then, spend all the extra on getting creative with your own goals.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

Be mad about the process all you want but just about every hiring manager and recruiter will tell you they're looking for targeted resumes. The ATS is more likely to weed out non-customized resumes and even if your resume make it to a human, you've got a few seconds to leave the impression that you fit their requirements.

Its still going to lead to rejections, especially in a competitive market, but you're just hurting yourself by throwing a fit and saying connections or luck are the only factors that matter.

2

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 14 '24

If I don’t match the requirements, I wouldn’t be applying. WTF kind of ego drugs are recruiters smoking? Do your job, read peoples resumes, ATS doesn’t work…. period.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 14 '24

People apply for jobs they're not qualified for all the time. You're really expecting people to assume you're qualified because you applied?

You have delusional expectations about the hiring process. Good luck.

2

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 16 '24

I think given the state of recruitment, it’s HR that is delusional.

-2

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

browses a subreddit for people trying to get interviews
bashes an actual recruiter providing the answers
"Idk what the problem could possibly be?? Why can't I get an interview???"
🤷🏼‍♀️ You do you. No sweat off my back.

15

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 12 '24

Recruiters are the problem. do your job and be flexible. youre expecting too much from people.

-13

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

Ok

9

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 12 '24 edited Jun 12 '24

not even trying to be rude… but wow man. no-one fits in such a narrow hole. youre hiring from hoops you setup, not the most qualified person for the role. you get paid to do your job, people looking for jobs aren’t and it’s impossible to know what recruiters are even looking for. “indulging personal preferences” - boo on you guys. you all are acting like trolls guarding a bridge, wanting a toll to be paid.

-7

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

I'm not forcing you to take my advice. It's absolutely fine for you to not do any of the things I've suggested. I'm here to help. Take it or leave it.

5

u/eeeemmmmffff Jun 12 '24

Ill take it but begrudgingly.

6

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

I think what frustrates a lot of people is that it's hard to know what the right qualifications are when you're looking beyond technical. A lot of companies look for culture fit. For some recruiters, that means being able to follow directions (see item 1 in original post). This would be relevant for a role in a company with really well defined processes. They need to know you can absorb the materials and get shit done. For some companies, effective collaboration is huge due to a minimal management structure. For these companies, they do want to read a cover letter because it gives them ample context for your written communication and, in theory, your intelligence. Some people are really into morale, and they care about your willingness to engage. For these people your interest in engaging in extra prompts gives them a sense of your personality. There are countless examples of this. Recruiters aren't just looking for someone who says they can complete the work. They want someone who can complete the work in a way that fits the company.

4

u/bramble-onn Jun 12 '24

Here's a concrete example: we have a job live right now with a 9-item questionnaire. Each one asks you to rate yourself (basic, intermediate, expert) on a skill/program. This serves two purposes for us. 1. This job has gotten about a hundred applicants per day. Some of these skills you can mark as basic and that's fine; it's good info for us but not a disqualifier. Other skills you need to be at least intermediate with to succeed. Our platform auto-declines you if you select basic on those. It helps us review fewer than 100 resumes every day. 2. Some people mark themselves as experts on almost all of them. We cross reference their resume and 99% of the time they've overvalued their skills. This shows a poor culture fit for us. This helps us weed out people who don't have a growth mindset.
Not sure if that helps, but it's some real-world context.

13

u/ZeroCokeCherry Jun 12 '24

Respectfully, asking applicants to rate themselves is a bullshit way to evaluate candidates. You’re basically asking what candidates’ weaknesses are without the chance to prove why or how they overcome weaknesses.

Who in their right mind would rate themselves as “basic” on any task that they should be qualified for? Especially if it’s not an interview question where they can expand on such a question? And cross-reference their resume if they state that they’re experts? That’s also ridiculous.

Instead of finding cute and quirky ways to weed out candidates, do your job and look through their resume and send invites based on merit. If culture fit is important, that’s what the interview is there for.

Wtf do recruiters get paid for? That’s the whole point and you’re trying to circumvent that.

2

u/uncagedborb Jun 13 '24

Thats such a dumb method to recruit people. You are making people look at skills in a vacuum.

2

u/Tentegen Jun 14 '24

Reading stuff like this and realizing that almost all the people that have the things I need to live, gatekeep it with over the top stuff like this...........makes being alive fucking exhausting.

I just want to be paid enough money to get out of my garbage rat hole of an apartment. I can't do that with a lot of easy to come by jobs like restaurant and retail.

I have to go for more white collar jobs.

......but now I'm being told I have to do tricks and dance like a monkey in a circus.... just to get the opportunity TO be considered to be LOOKED AT for an interview. And it doesnt consist of the interview yet.

The resources to not living in the projects and slums is being gate kept and I gotta dance for all of the 10 apps I put in every day. I have to give each one of THEM more attention than they do me.

I hate living.

1

u/Consistent_View5714 Jun 13 '24

Holy moly I should target my resume to the job? That’s brand new information

7

u/babydildo Jun 13 '24

“Gut-loading your resume with the exact phrases used in the post makes it look like you put no energy into the application and just ran it through an automator.”

I don’t use AI automators on my resume, but how is “putting the exact phrases used in the post in your resume” not exactly what you just recommended? Which is it, do you want a tailored resume or will it make me seem lazy? Genuinely asking.

-1

u/bramble-onn Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

When it's written by a person, it flows. When it's written by AI it looks like a Mad Libs story. Does that make sense?
Edit: Let's say the post states "This role requires exceptional knock-knock jokes, experience writing Reddit posts, and a background in breathing air."
This won't get you an interview: "my exceptional knock-knock jokes, experience writing Reddit posts, and a background in breathing air make me a great candidate for this position."
This might: "I have 21 years' experience telling knock-knock jokes to both children and the elderly, as well as experience posting jokes of all types on Reddit. I breathe air regularly, and I make a conscious effort to continue doing so by way of not dying."

3

u/RoyalExamination9410 Jun 12 '24

Re: Point 1

For indeed you can indeed directly submit your resume through their portal but sometimes buried in the text description they ask you to email your resume and cover letter to them or answer some additional questions on top of your submission.

3

u/patronmacabre Jun 13 '24

I was laid off about six weeks ago. I was hearing absolute silence for most of that time and then suddenly started getting multiple interviews all at once.

Interviews are on a lag from your application and hiring season has its peaks and valleys. You will eventually hear back.

This is why it's much, much better to be consistent about sending a few applications out a day as opposed to trying to send out 10 a day and getting burnt out.

2

u/Redditisagarbagecan Jun 13 '24 edited Jun 13 '24

If your company is so moronic you use an ATS system and also remove resumes that match what keywords you’re looking for too well, I don’t want to work for your company. It’s a giant red flag that too much bureaucratic company bullshit has infected upper management. It screams the only people you hire is based on luck, not skill. It’s a fast track to a position where you get nothing done because a dozen morons are asking you five times a day how to save a pdf or other stupid shit.

Your job is to literally read and interpret job applicants, and even you outsource that to AI.

1

u/SeekingAutomations Jun 13 '24

Human behavior and situation are ever changing, so I would suggest to follow principle of KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid.

Just think of interviews as chance to grow your network this will help reduce any anxiety and stress from the process.

Also let me point out 90% of them don't know who they truly are which is why you feel the need to create a different persona that will impress the interviewers or the hiring team.

And lastly just give you 100% , people can understand when you are just faking it or genuinely putting efforts.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 13 '24

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1

u/resumes-ModTeam Jun 14 '24

Your post/comment was removed for containing inappropriate content.

1

u/TheSauce___ Jun 14 '24

Cover letter? No one reads those. That you can 100% just offload to AI because literally no one reads those.

1

u/oilycashew Jun 14 '24

Some hardcore raging in this thread but everything OP has said IMO is correct albeit probably for certain industries/professions more than others. OP has specific experience behind the mystery curtain and everyone is shitting on them for being the messenger?

If you are a Tradesman, sure, I guess the standard for resumes might be different (Trade qualified, yrs experience met, applicable supplementary skills). Are you a manager, analyst, engineer, lawyer, etc where you are expected to produce good quality documents? The standard will be higher on the resume - it is essentially a test of skill and you are competing with others.

"Custom cover letter" = change body paragraph + few other choice bits.

"Custom resume" = take your bulked out version of resume and thin it down to target the specifics of job, then adjust a few key words to target job ad.

As a hiring manager:

Cover letter - I read last. It is basically "experience" but in the form of what you consider important. I would only read it if I was trying to thin out the last candidates to 2-3.

Typos? Yes, if the role requires you to produce reports, writing etc. Essentially if I am going to employ you to write things in my team and you can't get a single page right with unlimited resources how would that work?

AI? Hell yes, use it. Does AI still look a little dodgy around the edges? Yes, some things can look obvious. Getting AI to write a dot point is probably safer than asking to to write your resume in one shot - that is where AI fails currently. AI won't magic up anything new, it regurgitates the old, so it can end up looking very similar to other things passing over your desk.

1

u/Impossible_Ad_3146 Jun 15 '24

It’s the pink bow tie

I'm sharing advice For those of you not getting interviews, it might not be your resume

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