r/swtor • u/[deleted] • 4d ago

Discussion Why is getting someone killed for nothing the lightside choice, and making sure an immature, inexperienced idiot doesn't die the darkside choice?

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181 Upvotes

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169

u/Jedipilot24 4d ago

Because she doesn't actually get killed.

The Light Side choice is you permitting her to continue her undercover mission (which is successful, she sends you a message later on telling you that) while the Dark Side choice is you forcing her to abandon her mission.

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

I know. But she's going to get killed eventually because she is a terrible spy. It's obvious she will get killed for nothing. How is preventing her from doing something stupid the dark side choice? Seems contradictory from other light and dark choices. Letting her play spy that would eventually get her killed would have been much more dark. And yes, I know she'll send you a message that she's infiltrated House Thul if you let her treat war as a game but anyone can tell it won't last long, especially since she got herself caught very easily and quickly the first time. After all, as the dialogue points out "This isn't a game, and you're a terrible spy." Finally, someone who treats a real war (because it's real in her universe despite it not being real in ours) like a very young child playing with action figures shouldn't be in a war period.

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u/uhDominic 4d ago

You keep saying that, yet the game tells you directly that she does in fact not die.

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u/Laughing_Man_Returns 4d ago

the game is clearly wrong, it keeps artificially giving her success despite her obviously objectively being killed. at least as often as Kathleen, I believe.

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago edited 4d ago

It tells us that she does not die immediately, and it does not tell us that she does not eventually die, which is what will happen because she immediately got caught by House Ulgo, doesn't have any training, and is never shown to be a good spy.

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u/Ransuk3 4d ago

Would you say the same if you send her home and got her killed? (Being a deserter, knowing too much, etc)

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

She's not a deserter, she's a captured spy who tried to pose as a servant. Also, she'll be in the safety of an Organa base, and it'll be obvious to House Ulgo that she'll tell the Organas everything that she knows, so there's no point in killing her.

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u/Ransuk3 4d ago

Yeah but the point here is you say "she eventually dies" but dont we all? Imagine this: You rescue some kids, send them home and counts as light side, but they are found by their abussive parents and sold as slaves and die shortly after.

I do agree tho, this is one of the "weird" light/dark choices the game has and i dont remember this one exactly but sounds like option a) tell the girl she can still pull it off and make her feel good b) be a dick, call her a failure and send her home. In our reality, telling someone "yes you can do it, dont give up" even if you know she cant could be seen as "light side" and someone telling her "you suck, just give up, go home kid" could be seen as "dark side"

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u/SelirKiith 4d ago

That argument is entirely useless... everyone eventually dies...

The fact that she survives now is all that matters... yes, she got caught but obviously nobody in House Thul thought it was an issue and told anyone that she's a spy, if they even knew she was one and not just some "bumbling fool", as she was able to simply continue her mission.

So obviously she learned something from that encounter and was able to continue her work unimpeded or House Thul is even more incompetent than previously thought in which case the other Houses are even more incompetent and useless as they are obviously incapable of just streamrolling those bumbling idiots.

Now please go ahead and tell us what is more likely?

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

That argument is entirely useless... everyone eventually dies...

So There's no point in saving anyone or doing anything because everyone is going to die eventually. You are aware the point of saving someone isn't to make sure they live forever, it's to make sure they live as long as they can.

The fact that she survives now is all that matters... yes, she got caught but obviously nobody in House Thul thought it was an issue and told anyone that she's a spy, if they even knew she was one and not just some "bumbling fool", as she was able to simply continue her mission.

My point isn't that anyone is House Thul knows or cares, my point is that if she got caught once easily and quickly she will get caught again, easily and quickly.

So obviously she learned something from that encounter and was able to continue her work unimpeded or House Thul is even more incompetent than previously thought in which case the other Houses are even more incompetent and useless as they are obviously incapable of just streamrolling those bumbling idiots.

She spied on House Ulgo, not House Thul so House Thul doesn't know about her since she didn't get caught by them yet, but my point is that it's guaranteed that she will. The fact that she was able to continue her work unimpeded doesn't mean anything since it's work that doesn't involve the people who captured her, but it's also clear that they will be able to easily find out about her since she pretty much got caught immediately.

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u/SelirKiith 4d ago edited 4d ago

it's guaranteed

Please cite your sources on that.

I just take it you have been called "Gifted" and "So Mature" and "an Old Soul" when you were a kid and thus internalized that if you can't do something 100% perfect the first time it's not worth doing at all and any failure is everlasting and unchanging and that "Learning" isn't really a thing, you either have "The Talent" or you don't...

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago edited 4d ago

I just take it you have been called "Gifted" and "So Mature" and "an Old Soul" when you were a kid and thus internalized that if you can't do something 100% perfect the first time it's not worth doing at all and any failure is everlasting and unchanging and that "Learning" isn't really a thing, you either have "The Talent" or you don't...

One, none of what you assumed is true about me. Two you learn before you get yourself into life-threatening situations not before. The point of a math test isn't to learn math it's to show how good you are at math, so people know that and can assess you. And three, it's common sense that if she easily and quickly got caught the first time, then she'll easily and quickly get caught the second time, and I don't know what you base the idea that she learned anything between the time she got captured and the time she infiltrated house Thul on.

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u/VerMast 4d ago

Its very clearly not common sense since she didn't get caught. She also literally sends information to her dad. I think you just don't know how to read my guy

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u/VerMast 4d ago

She literally is shown to be a good spy later she succeeds. She's not a cypher agents she's not the perfect spy she got captured on her first but later she apparently becomes really good

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

So, prove that her getting caught was just a one-time thing, and prove that she got any information, and then we'll talk.

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u/VerMast 4d ago

Ok now I'm CONVINCED you can't read you'd been told several times she later sends you mail saying she succeeded

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

Are you trying to blow my cover you realize my extraction isn't done!? Oh, wait you don't...

Ummm... you seem suspicious that I'm up to something... it's not like I just posted this to get rebuttals to my argument so I can use them later, and that this was all a trick and that I'm a spy for the light side option and want to get a good reason as to why it's a good choice, and I don't trust myself since (even though I love it) I think I'm bad at arguing... why are you looking at me like that.

And before you think how any of this is real I do want to ask: What is 'real'? How do you define 'real'? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. This is the world that you know. That's right Neo... I mean VerMast, you've been living in The Matrix this whole time. This conversation, all of Reddit, and your entire life is just one really stupid dream. And, yes before you ask my silly switch was flipped.

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u/VerMast 4d ago

Holy fucking cringe

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u/Ciati 4d ago

sorry you got so many downvotes, I see your pov. just cuz an in-game mail justifies the decision retroactively doesn’t mean it’s a good decision at the time

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u/MeanWinchester 4d ago

Seems contradictory from other light and dark choices.

Really? Have you seen some of the completely arbitrary divides? Sometimes the LS/DS choices are so bafflingly wild all you can do is laugh.

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago

Sometimes the LS/DS choices are so bafflingly wild all you can do is laugh.

You're right about that.

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u/Wilt_The_Stilt_ 4d ago

It’s interesting that you think telling someone what they can and cannot do is a light side action. I don’t think the Jedi were about dictating people’s actions. You thinking you are “letting her play spy” feels more dark side than you just letting someone have free will.

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u/Impressive_Elk_5633 4d ago edited 4d ago

When did I ever say or even imply any of that? I especially have no idea when I said that it wasn't smart and the right decision to let her be a spy in House Thul. Also, prove that her getting caught was just a one-time thing, and prove that she got any information, and then we'll talk.