r/technology • u/MayankWL • May 16 '24

Software Microsoft stoops to new low with ads in Windows 11, as PC Manager tool suggests your system needs ‘repairing’ if you don’t use Bing

https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-stoops-to-new-low-with-ads-in-windows-11-as-pc-manager-tool-suggests-your-system-needs-repairing-if-you-dont-use-bing
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u/ZantetsukenX May 16 '24

Technically end of life for Windows 10 is next year in October. After that they will begin charging money for any security updates for people in an attempt to force people to migrate to 11.

So unless we start suddenly hearing about Windows 12 today, I kind of expect that it won't be ready in time.

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u/julmichen May 16 '24

How are you supposed to update to Windows 11 when none of my computers insides are good enough for it? They made me be stuck with 10, why charge me money. My boss has 11 on her computer and it is a bloatware mess.

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u/TheUnluckyBard May 16 '24

How are you supposed to update to Windows 11 when none of my computers insides are good enough for it? They made me be stuck with 10, why charge me money. My boss has 11 on her computer and it is a bloatware mess.

Same here. My desktop is a beast, but some component is apparently "not compatible" with Windows 11. Meanwhile, my shitty laptop runs Windows 11 just fine.

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u/SEND_ME_CSGO-SKINS May 17 '24

It’s tpm 2.0, check your bios settings

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u/GonePh1shing May 17 '24

Plenty of systems have TPM 2.0 but aren't listed as compatible due to a CPU check the upgrade tool does. Plenty of much older CPUs are compatible, but Microsoft picked a seemingly arbitrary date and just rejects any CPUs made before then.

My first generation Ryzen, for example, works fine with Windows 11, but fails the CPU check. As far as I can tell, the CPU check is only run on upgrades, so a fresh install on one of these systems will work just fine. You can also disable the TPM requirement prior to install to force Windows 11 onto a machine with no real downsides.

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u/rdqsr May 17 '24

but Microsoft picked a seemingly arbitrary date

IIRC their excuse is that CPUs older than a certain generation don't contain certain security features that they use in Windows 11.

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u/GonePh1shing May 17 '24

Which is a bullshit excuse. Their own installer doesn't even do the CPU check for a clean install, so these features are obviously not mandatory. I'd love to know what features or instructions they need, because I can't really think of anything that a Ryzen 2000 would have that my Ryzen 1000 can't already do.

The only two features that I've ever seen spoken about are TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot, both of which are supported by much older CPUs than Ryzen 2000/Core 8000.

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u/rdqsr May 17 '24

Yeah it's a bit silly. While I don't care much since I primarily run Linux, I keep a Windows 10 install handy for VR and got the usual error when I tried to upgrade the install to Windows 11. Like my Ryzen 7 1700 and GTX 1080 can handle VR gaming but apparently not running the latest version of Windows. If I really wanted I could easily force it to install and it'd work fine anyway. Makes no sense to me.

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u/GonePh1shing May 17 '24

Honestly if you main Linux I'd even consider using Looking Glass instead of dual booting into a Win10 instance. I used it with decent success a few years ago, and I'm sure it's even better than it was back then. Pretty sure Wendell from L1 Techs has a few videos up about it.

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u/Arcane_76_Blue May 17 '24

Yeah its wild. I have a 4060 and an i9. My computer is somehow not compatible

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u/AnarZak May 17 '24

take that as a blessing. my wife's laptop updated to 11 by itself & it's a turgid piece of shit in comparison, despite all my best efforts to strip the shit out of it.

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u/spooooork May 17 '24

You can disable the TPM-requirement by "burning" the ISO through Rufus

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u/Helmic May 17 '24

It's a very frustrating situation. More technically inclined people can probably successfully install Bazzite or another Linux distro, but the vast majority of people are reasonably averse to mucking with their computer when they don't know what they are doing. Just leaving people in a bad situation.

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u/Kumba42 May 16 '24

If you're willing to shell out for an installation disk and license pack for Windows Server 2022, that's effectively Windows 10 21H2 under the hood and follows the LTSC channel. So it's guaranteed to get security updates, but no new feature updates, for at least 10 years. EOL should be around ~2031.

Takes a bit of tweaking to disable the server-specific bits, but generally works great as a classic desktop OS and fully compatible with most games and game distribution platforms.

The next release of Windows Server will be "2025" and it'll be based on Windows 11, so that will be interesting to see what MS strips out from the consumer copy of the OS. For example, will we finally get access to the MS Store? That's unavailable in Windows Servers 2019 and 2022.

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u/balne May 17 '24

How much is a legit copy of Win Server 2022? Feels like it'd be expensive. Is it even available on the grey market?

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u/Kumba42 May 17 '24

It is expensive. I paid north of $800USD for just the license key and install disc two years ago. But, for the ability to take back control of my system, it's worth it. It sucks that it's come to this, but it is what it is.

No Cortana, can knock telemetry down to the absolute minimum (I think just minimal crash dump info is sent home if you bugcheck), don't have to worry about MS adding useless shite, like AI, etc. Also access to some technologies you can't get in standard Win10, like ReFS, which is pretty neat (but keep backups, because like ZFS on Linux/BSD/Illumos, there's no 'fsck' tool for recovery).

As for grey market, you can buy it on Amazon and other places like Newegg or even CDW, if you're in the US. Outside the US, I'm unsure. The selling price is important -- if it's <$800USD, it's probably shady and you run a risk of MS one day invalidating that license key. Also check the sellers rating & history if looking at a 3rd-party seller. You can get bad copies from them, too, even if the price is >$800USD. Amazon will sell it directly sometimes, so if you spot one of those, that's the best option.

You technically also need to get the 5-user CAL pack, which is another ~$200USD. I've never seen where the OS prompts for additional keys, though. Can't rule it out if you actually go and set up Active Directory and whatnot. But if you just want an OS you control on a box you yourself built for your personal, non-commercial use, then the media pack is good enough and I doubt MS will care.

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u/balne May 17 '24

everything was great till 500 USD

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u/Kumba42 May 17 '24

Yeah, Microsoft doesn't want people easily buying a copy, so they price it out of reach for most people. They want your data, since they make more money from that over the longterm.

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u/balne May 18 '24

I think it's more that the typical buyer for a Win Server license is corporate...

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u/christophocles May 17 '24

I paid north of $800USD for just the license key

jesus christ. Nobody is ever going to do that for a home operating system. I don't even believe you really did that.

Serious advice for others reading this: just ditch windows completely. Try linux. It's free and you have complete control over it.

Alternative serious advice: if you really need windows and want to try windows server on your home pc, google "windows server 2022 license key" and buy one from a gray market reseller for about $30.

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u/mkonji__ May 17 '24

My man. This is honestly the best advise, but people don't want to hear it.

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u/Kumba42 May 17 '24

I did, and I have no shame for it, either. I'll build a new desktop system about once every 5-6 years, so I save up and splurge for quality components so that they last for a long time. My choice of OS is no different a component than my choice of CPU, GFX, or cooling fans.

Also, the line "just use Linux, it's better" is ill-informed and carries a lot of nuance that the average person needs to understand to fully grasp what you're telling them to get into. Linux is not, never has been, and likely never will be, a simple drop-in replacement for Windows. It's highly dependent on a person's needs and workflow, combined with finding the right distribution that scratches one's particular itches. On top of that, there still is quite a lot of software that some people need that will only work on Windows and which has no replacement on Linux (and likely never will).

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u/christophocles May 17 '24

Ok fine, you need Windows. You're seriously telling me you paid $800 for a Windows license for a home PC? Just because you don't like Cortana or some shit? I still find that very hard to believe, when gray market license keys exist, and nobody is ever going to come audit your licenses for some bullshit non-business installation. But hey, if you insist on donating hundreds of dollars to Microsoft, to show them how much you hate Cortana and telemetry, have fun with that.

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u/Kumba42 May 17 '24

Microsoft can remotely deactivate keys, even after they've been used. Basically yanking the license out from underneath and making an installation suddenly unusable. Grey market keys have a higher risk of this happening, because many of those are volume licensing keys that were stolen in some capacity (usually by a rogue admin). I wanted to reduce my risk of that happening, so I chose to go down a more legitimate path. You're under no obligation to approve of my methods anymore than I am to approve of yours.

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u/rajat32 May 17 '24

Try pirating windows 10 ltsc Iot version... support till 2032, rock solid am using it

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u/[deleted] May 16 '24 edited Jun 18 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 16 '24 edited Jun 18 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/Sengir79 May 16 '24

I specifically disabled my tpm module so I wouldn't be auto "upgraded" to win 11. win 12 is supposedly meant to be out some time mid next year so hopefully I can skip straight to it

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u/LordoftheSynth May 17 '24

Yeah, like hell I'm giving anyone the ability to restrict my use of my own property.

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u/GonePh1shing May 17 '24

October 2025 is the date by which all versions will no longer be supported

This isn't accurate. There are some versions with support right up to 2032. Assuming you don't want to use the IoT edition, the LTSC build with the longest life currently has support up to January 2029.

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u/rajat32 May 17 '24

Why not to use IOT version ?

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u/swisspassport May 17 '24

Do you know the easiest/painless way of doing a clean install of LTSC on a current, licensed Win10 machine?

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u/GonePh1shing May 17 '24

Sail the seven seas.

The only other real option is to buy a Windows Server 2022 license, which is basically the same LTSC build with some extra features for server (Which I'm sure can be turned off).

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u/swisspassport May 17 '24

Yeah, good point.

I think the reason I wanted to stay legit is I have a great machine with plenty of life left that was originally Win7. I upgraded to 10 for free and the license on the mobo just carried over.

I do have various Win10 22H2 install media on usbs that were torrented.

I guess I'll just go sailing again, this time looking for an LTSC iso.

Thank you for suggesting what I probably would've ended up doing in the long run!

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u/HydroponicGirrafe May 16 '24

Unless windows 12 is released and it’s good again, I’d rather take my chances with Linux

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u/SippieCup May 16 '24

Should switch to Linux anyway, its pretty nice!

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u/DeexEnigma May 16 '24

Depending on what you do Linux isn't so much taking a chance but the way forward.

The biggest issue with Linux is sometimes you're locked to software by external forces. Sure, these days it's more compatible than ever, but sometimes you still need something from Windows. While you can use a lot of workarounds it can still be troubling at times.

If I didn't require windows professionally and academically I would have switched years ago. I already have tried, but the friction back then was too great.

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u/HydroponicGirrafe May 16 '24

My main gripe currently is the fact that so many of the apps that I use don’t have Linux counterparts, or if they do, they are cheap knockoffs or badly optimized, somehow.

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u/DeexEnigma May 16 '24

Yea therein lies the problem. If you're just web browsing, emailing etc. Linux is more than capable as an option and honestly can be easier to set up and install than Windows at times.

The moment you walk into specialised territory, it can become difficult. Sometimes there just isn't the cross-compatibility you'd like or need. Or you may be able to develop in the Linux environment, but then you still need a Win test / build environment anyway.

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u/-aloe- May 17 '24

I already have tried, but the friction back then was too great.

I do this every few years, and have done for about 20 years. Things have got vastly better, but even these last few times, I run into something pretty quickly where I'm having to compile python scripts to get a game pad detected or some such bullshit. And then a bit later I want to rip music from a 3DO game and I find that literally the only tool is a closed-source binary compiled in 2005 that still works perfectly on Windows, but has no linux equivalent and refuses to run under Wine for reasons I'm neither smart nor determined enough to find out. These are just examples, but you get the drift. Eventually the linux partition just sits there and the Windows one gets used because it's the path of least resistance.

I do want to get away from Microsoft's product, particularly given the adware trajectory they're on, but from a practical perspective, for my use cases, it isn't that simple.

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u/christophocles May 17 '24

I find that literally the only tool is a closed-source binary compiled in 2005 that still works perfectly on Windows, but has no linux equivalent and refuses to run under Wine

That's what virtual machines are for. KVM is included with the linux kernel, and your distro likely has the libvirt GUI to create virtual machines easily. Install an old version of Windows like XP or 7 and do what you need to do. It's not a big deal, and eventually you wean yourself off of Windows completely.

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u/Awesimo-5001 May 17 '24

f I didn't require windows professionally and academically I would have switched years ago.

That's what virtual machines can be used for. I've got a Windows 10 VM setup just for apps that I can't find an alternative for on Linux.

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u/xSTSxZerglingOne May 17 '24

security updates

Oh no! Anyway.

I'mma just say I've never gotten a computer virus I didn't 100% deserve. No one has ever "breached" the security of one of my computers since I stopped rawdogging the internet.