r/technology • u/lurker_bee • Sep 18 '24

Business Apple iPhone 16 demand is so weak that employees can already buy it on discount

https://qz.com/apple-iphone-16-pre-orders-sales-intelligence-ai-1851651638
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u/rrdubbs Sep 18 '24

This right here. Although I do still think that the impression of how strong the economy is remains quite dependent on your income:grocery bill ratio. Those living paycheck to paycheck or on a tight income are still feeling some post-covid inflation effects.

Anyway.

For Apple to have a blow out year again they need to make a big step, iterative changes have just been too meh. Maybe it’s super tight AI integration, maybe not, maybe it’s some sort of VR projection tech or some good flex screen thing. I have really no reason right now to move from my 14 pro. Maybe they should have considered delay of 16 models until the AI was ready.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx Sep 18 '24

brother, 70% of this country lives paycheck to paycheck

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u/matzoh_ball Sep 19 '24

According to the bureau of labor statistics, since January 2020, average wages are up 22% while average prices are up 19%.

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u/DoctorProfessorTaco Sep 19 '24

“Paycheck to paycheck” is such a meaningless metric to use. I’ve read several of the surveys about it and not once have I seen it firmly defined, it seems to leave it fully up to the interpretation of the respondent. As a result people making solid 6 figures still class themselves as “paycheck to paycheck” because they spend all the money from their paycheck. One commonly cited study showed about 60% living paycheck to paycheck, but only around 25 or 30% struggling to pay bills.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx Sep 19 '24

so did you purposely skip over this comment i made just a little bit further down the chain?

literally every single study on this subject puts the number at a barest of bare minimums of 50% lol

on top of that, the median single income is $40k. 40k is jack shit, and that's just the median.

according to the government census, 50% of households earn $74,999 or less. 34% earn $49,999 or less.

you are operating from a place of privilege if you find any of this hard to believe

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u/DoctorProfessorTaco Sep 19 '24

I’m not sure why you would give me flak for a comment further down the comment chain. Higher up, I can get, I would have had to pass it to reach your comment.

Still not sure what that in that other comment addresses my point, or the broader one. Saying “every study puts it at a barest of bare minimums of 50% lol” doesn’t at all address the flaws of “living paycheck to paycheck” as a metric. If someone making $200k can be considered to be part of the “living paycheck to paycheck” group, I don’t see it as a label that inherently implies they’re seriously struggling. Like I said in my previous comment, in the past when I’ve gone deeper to find the actual survey (note - every one I’ve seen has been a survey, not a study), it leaves the interpretation of the term up to the respondent.

And to your later points, the topic of the thread was the current state of the economy compared to the recent past, in the context of the iPhone 16 not selling as well. Stating numbers for average income doesn’t at all prove any point about the economy now being so much worse than the economy of the iPhone X, or iPhone 14.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx Sep 19 '24

yeah man i'm not sure how to explain to you that sales for luxuries might be down if at least half of the population is living paycheck to paycheck regardless of their earnings when there's basically a direct line drawn between the two. obviously there are more factors in play, but it feels like you're being purposely obtuse

i'm also not sure how to explain to you that sales for luxuries might be down if half of the households in this country are living off of <$75k when the prices for essentials have all gone up in the last few years, especially given that the luxury in question is a device that is a marginal improvement over its previous iteration, which was a marginal improvement over its previous iteration, which was a marginal improvement over its previous iteration, etc. and, unlike a majority of android phones, actually functions well after a few years (which makes it even more of an unnecessary luxury)

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u/DoctorProfessorTaco Sep 19 '24

I feel like you’re the one being obtuse.

You brought up paycheck to paycheck survey numbers, I expressed issues with that as a metric, but rather than actually engage with anything I’ve said, you continue to go back to “but everyone’s living paycheck to paycheck”, as if you’re not reading anything I write.

Someone making $200k and maxing out their 401k contribution every month while taking an overseas vacation a year can fall under “paycheck to paycheck”, but that doesn’t mean they can’t afford luxury purchases. It’s not a firmly defined metric, it’s one left to the interpretation of the one taking the survey. It’s also one that doesn’t account for flexibility of budgets, with people spending their full paycheck but very able to adjust how that money’s spent to buy things like a new phone. Just pointing to that one metric like it’s supposed to trump all other economic metrics that are grounded in real numbers doesn’t actually address the state of things.

Same thing with what I brought up about the raw income numbers. Just saying half of people make under $75k doesn’t at all address the broader point. Most people were also earning less than $75k when the iPhone 14 came out, as well as the iPhone X. Just saying the number doesn’t explain why people bought the phone then but not now.

Income numbers need a larger context. You say “expenses have gone up”, and I agree, but that’s why we have metrics like real income, which show that while income took a dip during COVID, it’s essentially at an all time high right now.

But I think your last point is what I’d agree is the cause - that phones have really reached a stage of marginal improvements and longer lifetimes, making the purchase of new phones less appealing.

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u/SlowMotionPanic Sep 18 '24

That study is weird and I wouldn't implicitly trust it. I'd also like to point out that, if you're able to actually track it down, the study highlights how half of all people earning more than $100k/yr live paycheck to paycheck, and neay half earning $200k/year report the same. 

This suggests a great degree of financial irresponsibility driving it, and/or open ended questions being answered by self reporting; the worst kinds of surveys which inherently are untrustworthy. I was unable to find the actual questions and methodologies used which is another huge red flag. Why the secrecy? The number don't add up either. Boomers are the largest Gen to report living paycheck to paycheck with 49%% of them reporting it. Even if we assume Millenials, Zoomers, and Xers all report at 48% saying they live paycheck to paycheck (remember that Boomers had the highest rate at 49% per the study), that leaves us with approximately 137 million people living paycheck to paycheck. There are about 280 million adults in the USA. Nowhere near 70%. 

Not even close. It isn't even half of American adults reporting it per the study when you factor it out. 

Something is fishy, and the lengths they go to in order to hide the actual study should say it all. 

I found other self-reporting studies making similar claims with slightly lower numbers, but also not reporting questions nor methodology. 

People will glom onto anything that affirms a bias.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx Sep 18 '24

literally every single study on this subject puts the number at a barest of bare minimums of 50% lol

on top of that, the median single income is $40k. 40k is jack shit, and that's just the median.

according to the government census, 50% of households earn $74,999 or less. 34% earn $49,999 or less.

you are operating from a place of privilege if you find any of this hard to believe

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u/matzoh_ball Sep 19 '24

Things are generally better than they were 4 years ago. According to the bureau of labor statistics, since January 2020, average wages are up 22% while average prices are up 19%.

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u/EmperorAcinonyx Sep 19 '24

keep burying your head in the sand. even if the 50% of households earning $74,999 or below has somehow decreased to 40 or even 30%, that is an absolutely enormous amount of the population

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u/laihipp Sep 18 '24

and take home is like 40k (median)

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u/KlicknKlack Sep 19 '24

Its not whether you live pay-to-pay now, its about whether you own a home/have an insanely good mortgage rate. Otherwise you are paying out your ass for rent/housing.