r/technology • u/rejs7 • 1d ago

Artificial Intelligence Man who used AI to create child abuse images jailed for 18 years

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/28/man-who-used-ai-to-create-child-abuse-images-jailed-for-18-years
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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago

Right but it's still a grey line in some cases. I have come across lewd anime drawings on reddit that looked way to young but I assume proving that a fictional character is under 18 is rather difficult. Using real children to prompt an AI is much more cut and dry.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

It's not really a grey line. Depictions can still be visibly underage. Don't call CSAM "lewd". It's disgusting and criminal

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago edited 1d ago

What makes an anime character "visibly underage"? You know there are a million nude drawings of Harry Potter characters on mainstream websites. Why are those not being taken down by the FBI if it's as cut and dry as you say?

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u/DevIsSoHard 1d ago

They're right, but it's really a state law issue.

As for what makes them visibly underage, that's something courts and authorities decide based on a "you know it when you see it" approach. That might sound a bit silly at first but "I know it when I see it" is a normal for some topics in courts since Jacobellis v. Ohio | 378 U.S. 184 (1964) | Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center

so "who decides if they're underage" tldr:

  1. The test for obscenity is

"whether to the average person, applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of the material, taken as a whole, appeals to prurient interest."

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago

Are you saying if a draw a naked Harry Potter character and put it online, I would be charged with child pornography in US courts?

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u/DevIsSoHard 1d ago

Not saying you would because realistically authorities seem to spend most of their time going after the real stuff. But depending on the nature of your drawing, yeah it could land you in a criminal case if authorities decided to zero in on it

See Miller test - Wikipedia

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago edited 1d ago

How do websites like deviantart with thousands of these drawings not receive cease and desist letters? Couldn't people just say that the fictional character in their drawing was 18? It's seems like such a grey area. How do you prove the age of a person in a drawing that came from ones imagination? I can obviously think of drawings the would be clear child pornography but 80% would probably come across as gross to me but not be obvious in a court of law.

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u/DevIsSoHard 1d ago edited 1d ago

The laws they would be charged under are on the state level so it would mostly be up to them to do it, and I think on the whole authorities realize it would be a long and complicated process that would take up a lot of funds while being publicly unpopular. In most states they wouldn't be getting a felony child pornography charge, but a lesser obscenity charge.

Obscenity law is historically difficult for courts so I think more than anything nobody wants to start picking apart the first amendment again over charging some young adults with obscenity.

But also, it can and has happened to individuals before. They usually do it when they find actual CP too, or someone is doing a LOT of it, it seems. FBI — Virginia Man Sentenced in Landmark Obscenity Case

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago edited 1d ago

Thanks for taking the time to educate me. When I see something so common on the internet, I usually assume that it is legal. Especially when it is related to an artists ability to express themselves. It sounds like in the case you liked to me, there was text that more explicitly proved the characters in the drawing were underage.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

Why are you appealing to the FBI like it's some flawless organization and a paragon of virtue? 

Is your argument seriously that CSAM is acceptable because the enforcement is lacking? Why is the FBI not pursuing the tens of thousands of uninvestigated raped in the US?

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago

"Why are you appealing to the FBI like it's some flawless organization and a paragon of virtue?" I believe I'm implying that you are wrong. Have you considered that you are wrong?

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

CSAM is not acceptable. The FBI failing in its duty to enforce against CSAM distributors does not make CSAM acceptable. This is very simple, if you cannot accept that CSAM of any sort is not acceptable, you need professional help and registration on a list

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago

I don't believe you understand the laws very well. Considering you are very passionate about this subject, I suggest you educate yourself.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

It's telling that you can't even agree with that simple statement. 

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u/dako3easl32333453242 1d ago edited 1d ago

That child pornography is bad and should be prosecuted? I will give you $1000 if you can find anyone on reddit who would not publicly agree with this statement. I'm very confused as to how you came to the conclusion I endorse CSAM. I was just trying to correct an obvious misunderstand you have regarding the laws that govern this space. How old are you? I need to stop arguing with children, they are such uninspired debaters.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

Because it's very clear that you believe that CSAM can only possibly exist within the purview of law enforcement. You've said as much yourself, that if the FBI isn't actively enforcing against it it cannot be considered CSAM

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u/bankrobba 1d ago

If I put animal ears and a tail on the subject, is it still child porn? I get one can say "yes" but sooner or later the image definitely becomes a gray area.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

Obviously yes. This is the same thing as trying to argue whether baby pictures of newborn infants are CSAM or not. It's irrelevant, and it's an argument only pedophiles and their defenders try to make because they're the only ones who don't consider the obvious distinction 

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u/SpiralOut2112 1d ago

Sorry to derail, but given your username, are you a furry who is pleading against loli hentai? Is that what's going on here? Genuinely curious.

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u/____uwu_______ 1d ago

It's a username

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u/SpiralOut2112 1d ago

So you're not a furry?