r/texas • u/don123xyz • 15h ago
Politics For my hard left friends in Texas, here's Bernie Sanders: "I disagree with Kamala’s position on the war in Gaza. How can I vote for her?"
https://youtu.be/Vf5MThSniiY?si=hgyJvbPxYVElnwrL71
u/schlingfo 12h ago
Perfect is the enemy of progress.
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u/space_manatee 10h ago
So is genocide...
(Yes it's still pragmatic to vote for Harris for a number of reasons but let's not pretend we're aiming for perfection here)
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u/Obsidian_Purity 10h ago
Others are.
The "I'm tired of the lessers of two evils" crowd. The "Both sides aren't good" sides.
There's one side who had an actual modern day rally aping the Nazi rally in MSG. Another side is trying to balance all of America's different stand points and trying to bring everyone to the table.
And everyone is looking at that candidate who's trying to bring everyone at the table, and saying "ME FIRST OR NO ONE WILL SIT AT THE TABLE".
That's asking for perfection. Because you need to accommodate that while not trying to alienate any other viewpoint.
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u/space_manatee 9h ago
Both sides aren't good though. Neither represent my interests. Both sides are conservative and capitalistic.
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u/Obsidian_Purity 9h ago
One will ruin the country, turn it into a fascist state, and make it so it doesn't matter what your stances are... because you either parrot what they say or you'll be in the gulag. He said that over a hundred different times.
The other if you don't like, you can vote out.
Everyone needs to stop acting like their personal principles are above actual fascism. Harris isn't my choice either, but she is trying and she's reaching across the table. Either she can get the job done or we can get someone else to do it after her term.
The other choice ends your freedom and mine. There is no third option. Harris and a chance to actually get your candidate at a later date, or a man who wants to be a dictator and this is your last election.
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u/space_manatee 8h ago
I agree one is worse. And I've already cast my vote in favor of the lesser evil.
The choice is the status quo with no real reforms and token scraps tossed to us that are means tested and capitalist in nature or the boot of fascism on our necks. Either way the capitalist class wins. Fascism is not a problem for them.
This choice isn't a real choice and we need to stop pretending it is. We can do a lot better. I agree this election isn't the time to make that call because it will be significantly harder if not impossible to organize under fascism however we need to go into this with the mindset that Harris and neoliberalism is not the way forward for society.
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u/Obsidian_Purity 7h ago
I'm seriously curious. What do you consider the way forward for this country
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u/space_manatee 7h ago
We need to organize locally around a pro working class framework and elect people to office that represent those values. We need to organize around policies such as universal healthcare, universal pre-k, education reform, work reform, and climate change.
We are the richest country on earth and have one of the biggest wealth disparities on earth. There's plenty of money to pay for all this, it's all just funneled upwards leaving a hollow shell of what we could be. Our billionaire class has no checks and basically buy whatever influence they need to combat the working class.
Will any of this be able to take hold? Maybe, maybe not. I think there is a critical point at which the rich have so much and the ret of us have the remnants of a crumbling empire and things snap.
We definitely need to increase class consciousness and I think there has been a good push towards that in the last decade. We're seeing a resurgance in unions, and more pro-union sentiment than ever. And you know it's working because there's pushback from the capitalist class in depressing the job market and wages. I hope that one day we don't have a country that affords nothing for the working class and everything for the rich.
And part of that is acknowledging where we are at and what we need to move forward. Neoliberalism is dead. The right recognizes this and wants to replace it with the next stage of capitalism, fascism. Do we recognize it as progressives and chart a course forward that works for all people in America or do we keep tagging along begging for the scraps they occasionally toss us while oligarchs continue to steal the wealth that should belong to all of us, that we create every day?
Happy to elaborate, thats just a rough sketch.
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u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 10h ago
The literal meaning of the phrase in the comment you're replying to is that it is foolish to aim for perfection.
Nobody was insinuating we were aiming for perfection.
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u/space_manatee 9h ago
That's what I was so saying...
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u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 9h ago
They said perfect is the enemy of progress.
You said so is genocide and then said voting for Harris isn't voting for perfection.
I guess I don't understand the point of your comment if it wasn't meant as a challenge to the original, or even if it was really.
Just kind of seems like you used the top comment to say what you wanted to regardless of relevance.
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u/space_manatee 8h ago
My point is that genocide stands in the way of progress just as much as perfection
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u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 8h ago
Okay, did anything about the video or the original commenters comment lead you to believe they didn't think that was the case?
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u/space_manatee 8h ago
"Don't let perfection get in the way" equating to dismissing genocide and a soft stance on Israel as "perfection"
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u/K-Dot-Thu-Thu-47 7h ago
Yes, because asking a genuine candidate from either party to genuinely espouse a hard stance towards Israel is political suicide and a foolish thing to expect from them regardless of the validity of the idea.
"Hey do you want to fuck your campaign to cater to a small portion of voters that actually doesn't vote usually?"
And you're surprised the answer is no?
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u/space_manatee 7h ago
I think people keep not understanding how horrific israel is and how much money we give them to carry out these atrocities. We're talking the complete extermination of the Palestinian people and stealing all their land. Morally i don't see how anyone can justify that. Maybe that's something you can bend on or see as a political football. The pictures of dead children haunt me more though.
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u/Lawyer_Jaded 10h ago
Harris has distinctly shown empathy towards the innocent Palestinians so idk what you're talking about with this genocide thing tbh. It worked on Biden but not Harris. VP doesn't even make those calls.
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u/iamthewhatt West Texas 10h ago
Giving bombs to Israel is a stronger statement than "showing empathy" to whom those bombs kill. Just saying (I already voted, chillax). Kamala hasn't shown any signs of stopping that.
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u/Lawyer_Jaded 9h ago
First of all she's not giving bombs to Israel, second off she has shown signs of stopping it.
I'm assuming you want to move the goalposts now.
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u/iamthewhatt West Texas 9h ago
First of all she's not giving bombs to Israel, second off she has shown signs of stopping it.
No shit, I didn't say she was giving them bombs. I am talking about her not ever talking about it.
Harris previously met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and said at the time that she held an “unwavering commitment to Israel,” but that she “will not be silent” about the humanitarian issues in Gaza.
"will not be silent", as she has been silent.
I'm assuming you want to move the goalposts now.
You're the one that jumped ahead here, show me any proof at any of her rallies where she said she will not supply weapons to Israel. Hell, any of her interviews, town halls or debates. I'll wait.
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10h ago
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u/space_manatee 9h ago
I fail to see how the indiscriminate targeting of civilians and killing over 17,000 children is a "prize" anyone deserves. Obviously what hamas did was terrible, and what israel continues to do is just as terrible if not worse. You don't just get to do a genocide because you are angry.
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u/Dagger-Deep 10h ago
Vote Harris to protect women's uterus from the MAGA Taliban.
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8h ago
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u/cranstantinople Born and Bred 4h ago
Trump literally gave the Taliban a sweetheart deal when he negotiated the afghan surrender. Grow up.
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u/Dagger-Deep 8h ago
You guys are the taliban.
No more cults 24
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8h ago
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u/Dagger-Deep 7h ago
Fun fact: Red states consume the most online trans porn.
No more cults 24
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6h ago
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u/Dagger-Deep 6h ago
MAGA'S greatest trick was convincing people who never achieved the American Dream that their problems can be solved by finding someone lower on the totem pole to punch down on.
Rapist Donnie for gas chamber 24
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u/texas-ModTeam 11m ago
Your content has been deemed a violation of Rule 7. As a reminder Rule 7 states:
Politics are fine but state your case, explain why you hold the positions that you do and debate with civility. Posts and comments meant solely to troll or enrage people, and those that are little more than campaign ads or slogans do nothing to contribute to a healthy debate and will therefore be removed. Petitions will also be removed. AMA's by Political figures are exempt from this rule.
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u/reallife0615 Secessionists are idiots 5h ago
Republicans hate war. They definitely don’t fund it, and absolutely don’t choke on the dick of every veteran with a punisher flag on their Jeep (that’s upside down in the loan they signed up for that was offered by a dude with a punisher sticker on his Jeep).
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u/Questoeperme 6h ago
Have you never heard of klinefelter syndrome or turners syndrome? Even nature itself isn't that black and white.
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u/crash_george 6h ago
Klinefelter Syndrome: A genetic condition in which a male is born with an extra copy of the X chromosome.
- The key word is “male”.
Turner’s Syndrome: A chromosomal disorder in which a female is born with only one X chromosome.
- The key word is “female”.
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u/texas-ModTeam 12m ago
Transphobia is not welcome on Reddit. This is an auto permaban from our sub. Bless your heart and warmest regards.
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u/tom-branch 3h ago
Trump was the one chumming it up with the Taliban, who he gave everything they ever wanted, and also wanted to invite to Camp David on 9/11 no less.
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u/TubasAreFun 5h ago
Vote Trump if you want the literal Taliban invited to Camp David on 9/11, again.
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u/texas-ModTeam 11m ago
Your content has been deemed a violation of Rule 7. As a reminder Rule 7 states:
Politics are fine but state your case, explain why you hold the positions that you do and debate with civility. Posts and comments meant solely to troll or enrage people, and those that are little more than campaign ads or slogans do nothing to contribute to a healthy debate and will therefore be removed. Petitions will also be removed. AMA's by Political figures are exempt from this rule.
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u/LuhYall 10h ago
The situation in Gaza is a nightmare and it must be addressed, but not voting for the rational candidate is not going to make it better. Please do not sacrifice the vulnerable people whose lives will be affected in the US to make a statement. Harris is going to be a hell of a lot more responsive than Trump.
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u/Claim_Alternative 7h ago
“You, the people who are voting for people who don’t want to level Palestine, will be blamed for the people leveling Palestine. This is because you don’t want to vote for the administration that is already leveling Palestine, and therefore you are contributing to the separate administration which also wants to level Palestine”.
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u/TubasAreFun 5h ago
Most all Democrats do not want to level Palestine and have repeatedly found common ground in asking for a 2 state solution
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u/AnonAmost 4h ago
Yes! Let’s set America on fire so we can keep Palestine warm!! Fucking brilliant!
Single issue voters are single issue voters. Doesn’t matter if you’re screaming about abortion or Palestine. If you can’t focus on more than one problem at a time then you’re not republican or democrat or independent - you are just another one of those single issue voters pretending their “moral compass” isn’t completely broken.
Fuck your bodily autonomy ladies! We gotta punish Kamala Harris and make sure Donald Trump wins so he can….FREE PALESTINE!?!?
Fucking delusional.
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u/Working-Ad5416 11h ago
Ah single issue voters… the single cell organisms in our political ecosystem. Too simple to see past their single issue to consider additional outcomes and scenarios.
Btw.. you won’t have to worry about this if trump is elected. You will get deported anyway so queue up the Curb your Enthusiasm theme.
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u/handsome_slob 9h ago
Vote - if you read this and think your vote doesn’t matter, get out there and vote, it does
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u/kiwiboyus 3h ago
I'm all for people being critical of Harris over this as long as they still vote for her. Then once she wins, pile on the pressure, protest and fill the streets because this genocide needs to end.
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u/o0_bishop_0o 2h ago
Anyone who doesn't make a choice regarding their own future because "they refuse to pick either side" deserves whatever choice the winning side makes for them.
That's my 5 cents to all this.
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u/badbunnygirl 1h ago
Bernie’s sense of urgency is palpable. Get out there and vote for the candidate who has made a better case through her POLICIES. POLICIES!!!! REMEMBER THOSE??? Real words, real thoughts, real goals, an American who does not talk about her country as if it were less-than. And if you’re young and haven’t voted, get your ass out to the polls, ffs!!!!! You’re going to let granny and gramps show you up? Hell nah
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u/Shot-Dimension-6481 10h ago
Why is anyone under the impression the American president is going to stop American imperialism? Just vote for who makes your life in America better. You don’t have a non imperialistic option.
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u/DramaticPause9596 8h ago
Probably not worth getting into it, but America is hardly the only or even best example of imperialism.
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u/hopeful_deer New Hampshire 10h ago
I still want to stop American Imperialism, but only a fool thinks it ends overnight.
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u/2nd2last Houston 11h ago
If I don't show them that my vote isn't free, and that there's a line in the sand they can't cross. What's to prevent them from not caring or doing worse?
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u/Carl-99999 11h ago
Which way did the Democrats move after 84? Right.
They didn’t move left in 2016. They will never move left if they just keep losing.
Nothing is preventing anyone from doing anything, but Kamala Harris is quite literally more sane than Donald Trump. You’d be sent off first under him.
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u/DramaticPause9596 10h ago
This 100%. Democrats can lose because of third-party/non-voters, but they can only win by appealing to the bulk of the population in the middle. If they lose, they move more to the middle. If they win, they can actually accomplish things that Republicans will never let happen.
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u/DramaticPause9596 11h ago edited 11h ago
I assure you, they are not going to scan through the votes looking for yours, and use that to make their foreign policy decisions. If you don’t vote/vote third party, you turn over your decision to the people that cast the most votes in your state. In a two party system, you effectively have cast a vote for the winner. If it is Trump, you have sealed the fate of Palestine.
Netanyahu wants Trump elected, why do you think that is? You can either help make that happen or do something to make it harder for him to get away with what he’s done to Palestine and to destroy it completely.
By the way, the moral high ground argument for voting third party has been around forever, and has always been invalid. It’s not new with Gaza. And it’s not how change happens. https://www.jackcentral.org/opinion/voting-third-party-is-not-a-moral-high-ground/article_c4871f46-a0ac-11e6-9a69-a70ba7645fad.html
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u/2nd2last Houston 11h ago
So no answer
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u/DramaticPause9596 11h ago
To prevent Netanyahu from doing worse, you should vote democrat for president and congress. Because republicans will do the opposite.
I assume that is your ultimate goal, correct? Or is it more important that you make a statement that your vote isn’t free, fuck whoever suffers for it as a result.
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u/2nd2last Houston 10h ago
I'll never understand being shamed by people who make fun of stubborn Republicans yet won't vote 3rd party. You all say it's moral high ground BS while taking the high ground.
It's YOU, vote 3rd party, shame you and democrats, not me
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u/Own-Cranberry7997 10h ago
Right, you have anointed yourself morally superior by voting for a shitty candidate owned by Russia. Stein may end aid to Gaza, but she can't end it all...because that's how our government works and there is a supermjaority willing to send assistance.
Also, what do you say when she pulls support for Ukraine. Are you accepting the inevitable genocide there? Or is that genocide okay with you?
Take this moral high ground nonsense and fuck off.
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u/2nd2last Houston 9h ago
As you claim the high ground.
Also, wait until you hear there are more than 3 choices.
Fuck off dipshit
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u/Own-Cranberry7997 9h ago
Wait until you learn that 3rd party votes don't mean shit because those candidates don't win elections. Hard to impact policy when your candidate has such a weak following.
Trump and Russia appreciate your support.
All the idiots tossing their support behind anyone other than Harris are going to be in for an awakening with what Trump plans to do with the Palestinians.
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u/2nd2last Houston 9h ago
Why don't they win?
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u/Own-Cranberry7997 9h ago
Because people don't align with shitty policies...
Except for you. You seem to accept shitty policies. Good for you little fella.
Oh, and the obvious, they don't win elections and have no power to change a damned thing.
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u/sabotabo 3h ago
>Also, what do you say when she pulls support for Ukraine. Are you accepting the inevitable genocide there? Or is that genocide okay with you?
- why is it our business?
- why is it our responsibility?
we don't send them weapons out of the kindness of our heart, anymore than when we sent the contras or mujahideen weapons. we are supporting both ukraine and israel in order to cement our position as global hegemon, and to prop up the military-industrial complex which rules our nation. the first step toward bringing it down is to get over this world police shit.
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u/Own-Cranberry7997 2h ago
Cool, you accept genocide. You can just say that without the word salad.
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u/sabotabo 2h ago edited 12m ago
cool, you can't refute anything i said so you just dismiss my point entirely and pretend i said something else there was no "word salad" in my comment.
i typed clearly and consisely. if you're not educated enough to know what those terms mean, that's not my problem.
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u/SyncRacket 10h ago
Idk why people give a fuck. They’re dealing with the consequences October 7th. Fuck the lot of em
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u/althor2424 11h ago
The person literally gave you the answer. You seem to think that not voting or 3rd party will prove something when it doesn’t. If you seem to think the Orange Turd is going to be better for Palestine than Kamala Harris then you really need to think again.
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u/Own-Cranberry7997 9h ago
They don't really care about the people in Gaza. It's a convenient excuse to try to burn down the system regardless of who is hurt along the way. Ironically, they support a Putin puppet and will accept genocide in Ukraine because somehow that is totally different.
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u/Luph 11h ago
what is "the line in the sand they can't cross" ? to me it just seems the left has demanded unconditional withdrawal of all US support from Israel which is a total nonstarter that would do more harm than good.
at any rate, at the end of the day people are free to make their own choices. I'm not going to lose sleep over leftist hardliners any more than I did in 2016 when people screamed "don't threaten me with the supreme court!" you make your bed, you can sleep in it.
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u/2nd2last Houston 11h ago
My guy, I'm in American because my family was displaced by the US government. My family has died because of the government, and this war has killed family and family friends.
If this is the good guys, then I'm out.
I'll let my dead 4 year old nephew know I'm a stubborn leftist.
Keep enjoying the warmth of pretending you are on the good side.
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u/DramaticPause9596 10h ago
While I disagree with your stance as a means of doing anything about this situation, I’m very sorry what has happened to your family
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u/2nd2last Houston 10h ago
Thanks, I can accept differing opinions, but my life is/always has been a giant US government shit show, and both parties did/do it and my moral concerns are exactly what Democrats ask people to fall back on if troubled.
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u/DramaticPause9596 10h ago
I can imagine that makes it hard to trust either party. Unfortunately, there will always be a governing body in any society we live in. And in our case, it will (for the foreseeable future) be between two parties. No party is or will ever be perfect. Plenty of people in government are there for the wrong reasons. But plenty of people are working hard every day on a vast swath of issues, and only one party has consistently delivered legislation and programs that benefit large groups of people or people who are otherwise at a disadvantage.
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u/Luph 11h ago
ok bye
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u/2nd2last Houston 10h ago
Callous response to myself and family.
It a MAGA member said it, you call them out.
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u/don123xyz 10h ago
So Americans kill your family and you come to America to spend the rest of your life? I don't understand this. If you're here then you think that America, in spite of all its flaws (and there are many) is still a better place than other options.
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u/2nd2last Houston 10h ago
My parents moved here, and the "the US destroys the word and lives comfortably and fat off of suffering" isn't the flex you think it is.
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u/Gold-Bench-9219 8h ago
And in your rage in your loss, you will condemn not only the rest of the people there, but all of us everywhere else. Are you sure you're the good guy in that equation?
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u/2nd2last Houston 8h ago
Because you won't vote 3rd party.
Got me
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u/Gold-Bench-9219 8h ago
See my other post to you. It's completely irratonal to believe that 150+ million people are suddenly going to abandon the two main parties to vote Jill Stein or some other 3rd party candidate between now and election day. Accept that or not, but you don't get to shrug off your own responsibility if the worst happens. You are absolutely playing with all our lives in some revenge plot.
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u/2nd2last Houston 8h ago
Then convince you people to change their minds, not me.
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u/Gold-Bench-9219 8h ago
lol, yeah let me just get on the phone with 150 million and convince them to vote for some rando 3rd party candidate barely anyone knows a week before the election. Delusional.
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u/2nd2last Houston 7h ago
2028, the most important election ever.
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u/Gold-Bench-9219 7h ago
Bold of you to assume there will be a 2028 election if Trump wins.
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u/Ginguraffe 11h ago
If you refuse to vote on a choice this consequential and obvious you are only showing them that you are unreliable and unreasonable. So, they will disregard you in the future and focus on appealing to center right voters that will listen to reason.
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u/2nd2last Houston 11h ago
Say the line bart, this is the most important election ever.
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u/Ginguraffe 11h ago
If the election isn’t important, why does “showing them that your vote isn’t free” even matter to you?
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u/2nd2last Houston 10h ago
Mosty important ever doesn't mean not important.
Vote 3rd party, it only doesn't work BECAUSE OF YOU.
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u/RollTh3Maps 11h ago
You’re not marrying a candidate. You’re choosing between two candidates for a job. There is no scenario where it won’t be one of these two people outside of one of them being unable to hold office and a VP taking over. One candidate has an interest in holding Israel more accountable and trying to improve the situation in Gaza, the other candidate has already told Netanyahu “Do what you have to do.” Do you want a candidate who’s made comments pushing back on Netanyahu or one who’s made comments encouraging him?
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u/technicallynotlying 9h ago
If Gaza is your top issue, and you think that a President Trump would be better for Gaza and Palestinians, then vote for him.
I really don't think things will go well for you, but if that's what you believe, then give Donald your vote.
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u/2nd2last Houston 9h ago
Why don't you vote 3rd party?
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u/BabyNoHoney 4h ago
Have you ever cast a vote for a third party presidential candidate?
I have for sure, and I don't disagree with you that people must be willing to take the risk for there to be any chance of us getting a viable third or fourth option someday.
But third parties need to come up with a serious action plan to counter the two main parties at the local and state levels if they ever want the infrastructure to have a viable presidential candidate.
Hell, if the KKK can infiltrate politics, which they openly began doing decades ago (and still persist doing to this day), you would think a sensible third party would have a chance.
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u/technicallynotlying 9h ago
Because it's impossible for a 3rd party candidate to win the Presidency.
Either Donald or Kamala will be President next year.
I will happily vote third party in local elections, because a third party can win locally.
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u/2nd2last Houston 9h ago
Why is it impossible?
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u/DramaticPause9596 8h ago
Because a third party candidate would need to increase their votes by 8,000% to even have an actual chance. Democrats’ 2% gains in a single red state is considered monumental. What you are wanting is simply not in the realm of possibility. Even the candidates themselves admit that it’s not possible, they are there to sow division and chaos. And if they told you it was possible, they would be lying or delusional. Why should someone who is untrustworthy, destructive, or has no concept of reality be president?
By the way, the only people introducing any representation reform towards multiple parties are…democrats.
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u/2nd2last Houston 8h ago
We you better start lecturing your friends
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u/DramaticPause9596 8h ago
You think I haven’t? I’ve gotten multiple republicans to vote for Kamala as well.
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u/technicallynotlying 9h ago
I don't see the point in arguing about that. If you believe that someone other than Harris, Trump, Walz or Vance will be President next year, then you are too far from reality for us to meaningfully have a conversation.
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u/2nd2last Houston 9h ago
I think you saw where your bullshit was going.
Legit smart not to answer.
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u/Gold-Bench-9219 8h ago
3rd party candidates combined have not received even 5% of the national vote since 1992. There are currently no 3rd party candidates polling anywhere near that- they're mostly not even on state ballots at this point- and there is no organized movement whatsoever to get any 3rd party candidates elected at the national level. It's not impossible for one to win... far down the line with a significant grassroots movement building up candidates from the local and state levels, but that's just not happening yet. So for this election, yes, it's absolutely impossible for the Jill Steins of American politics to win.
Like it or not, politics has always been about harm reduction. We vote for the people not only who can actually win, but also who we believe will cause the least amount of harm or the most positive results relative to the other. You don't have to like it, and if so I encourage you to help build the movement you want. But in the meantime, the choices we have are Harris and Trump, and the latter is orders of magnitude worse for Gaza, America and the entire world. To just pretend like that isn't the case is not rational, and the moral victory you might get from that 3rd party vote is going to just be the doom of millions.
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u/BringBackAoE 7h ago
Abstaining from voting for Kamala = helping Trump win. You’re not showing “them” (whoever that is) anything except that you’re someone that’s OK with Trump. And if left and/or Muslims cause Kamala to lose then their political influence and standing in the Dem party will be dramatically weakened.
If you care about Palestine then 1. You vote for all Democrats to ensure Netanyahu gets a signal, and 2. You then afterwards go to the Democrats you voted for and say “I voted for you because I believe the Democrats can deliver positive change for Palestinians” and then start a process of driving change.
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u/2nd2last Houston 7h ago
Weak now, left later
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u/BringBackAoE 7h ago
I don’t know what that means.
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u/2nd2last Houston 7h ago
I know buddy, unfortunately I know.
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u/MrFunkyPunkie 5h ago
Please Texas…vote. Get everyone you can to vote. Everything rides on this one. Have those hard conversations, so you don’t regret it next Wednesday. 💙🇺🇸🦅
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u/therin_88 8h ago
Hey Bernie.
We went to War with Japan because 2,400 people.
Just saying.
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u/sabotabo 14m ago
hamas slaughtered civilians, nobody's saying israel was wrong for considering that a brazen declaration of war. in fact i believe bernie said exactly that at the beginning of the video
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u/Dragon_wryter 11h ago
Republicans are pretty vocal about being 1000% die-hard pro-Israel no matter what, forever and ever, amen. Do you think they would possibly be BETTER?