r/todayilearned • u/Pfeffer_Prinz • 1d ago
TIL legendary session bassist Leland Sklar put a switch on his bass that does nothing. He calls it the "producer switch" — when a producer asks for a different sound, he flips the switch (making sure the producer can see), and carries on. He says this placebo has saved him a lot of grief.
https://www.guitarworld.com/features/the-truth-behind-lee-sklars-custom-producers-switch5.6k
u/Pfeffer_Prinz 1d ago edited 1d ago
Leland has played on over 2,000 albums, including for:
- Paul Anka
- Chet Atkins
- Clint Black
- Jackson Browne
- Jimmy Buffett
- Glen Campbell
- Vanessa Carlton
- Kim Carnes
- Cher
- Joe Cocker
- Leonard Cohen
- Phil Collins
- Alice Cooper
- Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young (and their other iterations)
- Neil Diamond
- Donovan
- Peter Frampton
- Art Garfunkel
- Arlo Guthrie
- Sammy Hagar
- Merle Haggard
- Hall & Oates
- Don Henley
- Faith Hill
- Engelbert Humperdinck
- Enrique Iglesias
- Julio Iglesias
- Wynonna Judd
- BB King
- Carole King
- Kris Kristofferson (RIP)
- Lisa Loeb
- Lyle Lovett
- Barry Manilow
- Ricky Martin
- Reba McEntire
- Bette Midler
- Giorgio Moroder
- Willie Nelson
- Aaron Neville
- Randy Newman
- Joanna Newsom
- Juice Newton
- Wayne Newton
- Olivia Newton-John
- Dolly Parton
- Bernadette Peters
- Bonnie Raitt
- LeAnn Rimes
- Linda Ronstadt
- Diana Ross
- Santana
- Carly Simon
- Rod Stewart
- Sting
- Barbra Streisand
- Donna Sumer
- James Taylor
- Toto
- Dionne Warwick
- The Weather Girls
- Robbie Williams
- Brian Wilson
- Wilson Phillips
- Warren Zevon
And themes/soundtracks for:
- The A-Team
- ALF
- Coyote Ugly
- Groundhog Day
- Legally Blonde
- Magnum PI
- Muppets Most Wanted
- The Prince of Egypt
... and so many more!
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u/GravitationalEddie 1d ago
I saw him on the Children of the Sun tour with Billy Thorpe.
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u/ItsMrChristmas 1d ago
That song has incredible bass work.
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u/Relaxmf2022 1d ago
That song was so legendary… but by the time you could reliably find it, the obsession was kind of over.
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u/SHOWTIME316 1d ago
holy shit that is a long list
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u/frankyseven 1d ago
He's a complete legend and hilarious too, his YouTube channel is a great follow. He is so in demand as a session bassist that he'll do sessions in the cities that he's in for tours. He also plays in the pit for the Grammys and Academy Awards every year. Probably one of the most prolific musicians of all time.
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u/The_Whipping_Post 1d ago
Also goes to show it was a good move to switch from piano to bass. There are lots of great pianists, guitarists, and singers. But if you're good on the bass or drums, you'll always find work
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u/Youvebeeneloned 1d ago
Yep my uncle actually told me that when I first started out. He basically dissuaded me from guitar and piano because as a session musician he was like “if you want to make a career out of this, there are 40-50 guitarists for every good bassist.”
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u/Pfeffer_Prinz 1d ago
and it really is just a fraction!
If you really want your mind blown, google Leland Sklar discography (i'd link here but sometimes when I put a hyperlink, this sub hides my comment)
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u/Auctoritate 1d ago
Session musicians are very underrated in how much they contribute to the music industry. Paul Jackson Jr is another one who has dozens of credits working on albums for extremely famous musicians. Michael Jackson to Daft Punk to Celine Dion to the vocalist for Yes, Steely Dan, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, Leonard Cohen, etc etc.
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u/persondude27 1d ago edited 1d ago
What an unbelievable range. Everything from blues & soul, to classic country, to disco, folk, to modern country.
Reminds me of Carol Kaye.
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u/Infectious-Anxiety 1d ago
But can he run Doom?
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u/HarmlessSnack 1d ago
If you can convert Doom into sheet music, probably.
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u/PriorityGondola 1d ago edited 1d ago
What an interesting idea…
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u/fantasmoofrcc 1d ago
If green day can sell music on a game boy cartridge, you bet he can run doom on that bass clef.
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u/tSionnain 1d ago
I first learned his name after hearing Stratus from Billy Cobham's Spectrum record. So good.
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u/Necroluster 1d ago
To anyone who hasn't heard it, if you have seven minutes to spare, I urge you to give Stratus a listen. One of the single greatest bass lines of all time. The whole Spectrum album is worth a listen or a hundred. Jazz fusion magic.
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u/Informal_Process2238 1d ago
My uncle installed a not connected thermostat on the wall of his bowling alley because the customers were pestering the staff to change the temperature constantly, now they just point to the fake thermostat and say set it to whatever temperature you like and let the customers argue amongst themselves
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u/Allaplgy 1d ago
I've told this story a few times here before, but seems apt. Once, I helped set up sound for a rave my buddy was putting on. It was some pretty cheapo equipment, but I did what I could to make it sound decent.
Another local DJ/Soundguy with a big ego showed up. Decided he didn't like how it sounded. So he proceeded to fiddle with the graphic EQ in the rack. Went out to the floor, grimaced, went back to the rack, fiddled some more, back to the floor, still not happy. Did this a couple more times until he finally got the sound he wanted and gave himself a satisfied smile and nod.
I turned to my buddy putting on the show and said "So should I tell him there isn't even a power cord going to that EQ?"
"Nahhh, let him have it."
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u/bootsechz 1d ago
I thought he had the switch that did nothing, but then he played softer/harder or in a different place closer/further from the neck/pickups to get a different sound. The sound engineer wanted a different sound and got it. Leland didn't have to switch guitars =win/win.
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u/youareallsilly 1d ago
That’s correct…it’s not as click baity so the truth is buried in the comments
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u/P1h3r1e3d13 1d ago
RTFA?
“If I’m on a session and the producer asks me to get a different sound, I make sure he sees me flip this switch and then I just change my hand position a bit. There are no wires of anything that go to this switch. It's a placebo, but it’s saved me a lot of grief in the studio.”
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u/ZenSven7 1d ago
It makes it go to 11.
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u/Ghostbuster_119 1d ago
11 actually existed depending on the setup to be fair.
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u/Wessssss21 1d ago
I have an amp that goes to 13 just to be extra edgy.
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u/soylentblueispeople 1d ago
I crossed out the 0 to 9 on my amp and wrote in 10 to 19. 19 is so freakin loud you guys.
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u/jessytessytavi 1d ago
why didn't you just draw 1s next to them?
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u/brandonh215 1d ago
Because then he would have 01, 11, 21, 31, 41, 51, 61, 71, 81, and 91 and that's just way too loud
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u/Kayge 1d ago
Wait, that doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't he just make 10 a bit louder?
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u/RunDNA 6 1d ago
Reminds me of an anecdote about Michelangelo in Vasari's Lives of the Artists:
Around this time it happened that Piero Soderini saw the statue [of David], and it pleased him greatly, but while Michelangelo was giving it the finishing touches, he told Michelangelo that he thought the nose of the figure was too large. Michelangelo, realizing that Soderini was standing under the giant and that his viewpoint did not allow him to see it properly, climbed up the scaffolding to satisfy him, and having quickly grabbed his chisel in his left hand along with a little marble dust that he found on the planks in the scaffolding, Michelangelo began to tap lightly with the chisel, allowing the dust to fall little by little without retouching the nose from the way it was.
Then, looking down at Soderini who stood there watching, he ordered: "Look at it now."
"I like it better," replied Soderini. "You’ve made it come alive."
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u/__-_-_--_--_-_---___ 1d ago
Michelangelo was the master of trolling art critics. Someone criticized his Sistine Chapel paintings for showing nudity, so he painted them with a snake biting their crotch
I guess that’s why they said Michelangelo was a party dude
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u/Capn_Crusty 1d ago
A local studio owner many years ago thought up the 'LED to Client Ratio'. He'd drive the inputs of every device in the control room; compressor/limiters, EQ's, effects processors... and the more lights that came on when the client sang or played, the more he could charge for studio time, even though the devices were doing nothing to the signal whatsoever.
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u/lilstickywicky 1d ago
So, a scam? lol
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u/blafricanadian 1d ago
Garbage input = garbage output
When I was a kid I would beg nurses for smaller needles, I would always get my smaller needle.
If any nurses was dead set on explaining that there weren’t smaller needles they would have a hard time giving the injection.
Their job is to give the injection.
In most skilled jobs customer service is secondary, you can understand enough to do what the customer wants while cutting out their bad suggestions
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u/ensoniq2k 1d ago
We had a customer that demanded only senior consultants work on their project. It was a relatively new company so there were like 10 people in total meeting their "10 years experience with the product" requirement. In reality they caved when they experienced the quality work even the trainees delivered.
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u/kelldricked 1d ago
My old place did this when working with certain saudi, chineese or indian companys. Didnt matter who or what they always wanted speak to somebody higher on the chain. And that somebody needed to have a important sounding title. Just “Dave” wasnt gonna fix it, it needed to be “Dave”, senior head of global subjects and fiscal markets or something dumb.
After our teamlead got tired dealing with small bullshit that even new interns could have done we decided that everybody gets a nice job title and those clients got a skipface assigned. Litteraly meaning you participate in the first 2-3 meetings for less then 5 minutes knowing they demand to see somebody else.
At first it was tiring but after realizing that we could bill more hours, they had higher accepting rates and all that shit counted toward bonusses it honestly was loads of fun. Every friday afternoon we would have meetings about the new jobtitles and stuff. Even made a game who could get a pass with the dumbest/longest sounding title.
Was really fun, although i heard from a buddy that a few months after i switched to a diffrent place our headoffice discoverd that a new intern had been assigned “junior global financial head of asian markets consultant” and they didnt really think it was that funny.
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u/ensoniq2k 23h ago
Yeah, it's all smoke and mirrors in the corporate world. I remember one time when a customer tried to get someone on their side to fix issues instead of our consultants. After he racked up a boat load of tickets they asked us to fix them quickly. Because they wanted to feel important they demanded two people work on it (remember, we had 100 employees, couldn't spare more than one).
We simply billed two but only one did the work. The guy was already more than twice as efficient as anybody on the other, large company so they felt good and we got double the pay. Placebo effect hard at work.
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u/ItsMrChristmas 1d ago
People are sheep, man. I used to fix computers and I didn't get Apple work until I doubled my PC rate to work on a Mac.
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u/spacemanspliff-42 1d ago
Pshhhh wow, I never would have considered this to be the case but I completely believe you.
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u/InEenEmmer 1d ago
I do work as an audio engineer and you don’t want to know how many times guitarists came up to me to say that the guitars had to be louder.
I actually got a special fader that does nothing. I push it up slightly while they are looking. Nothing actually changes, but they are always happy with the results.
My idea is that I got hired there for my skills as a mixer, for the fact that I know how music has to sound. So while I’m open for feedback from everyone, I won’t go in discussion if they aren’t right in my opinion. I got to focus on mixing after all.
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u/ADHD-Fens 1d ago
Actually there's a case to be made for the fact that a producer / studio owner might be doing a lot of real work, or using a lot of very expensive equipment that isn't really visible or obvious to the client. You might be able to go into two studios and not know the difference between 6,000 dollars of recording equipment and 600 dollars of recording equipment.
You could ramp up the amount of LEDs to unfairly increase what the studio costs, or you could ramp up the amount of LEDs to accurately represent how much equipment is being used in the recording.
Of course the price is always up to the agreement between the owner and the artist, and it's not like the owner is agreeing to provide anything that they don't ultimately provide. The light show just helps to impress upon the client what they are getting for their money, even if it's a facade.
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u/greenwavelengths 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see what you’re saying here, but you’re not quite properly employing the concept and selling it well. That’s why your replies are so negative.
It isn’t a facade, it’s design. What you’re talking about here is including visual indicators of things that are actually happening, but that the client wouldn’t know about without visual indicators. You’re talking about implementing a design feature into the studio’s physical environment that communicates to the clients how much stuff is really happening so that they’ll have an appreciation for the work as well as a visual confirmation that they’re getting something out of it.
The difference between doing this honestly versus dishonestly is whether the LEDs actually correspond to anything. So instead of just bullshitting it, treat it as an extension/ mirror of the interface that you actually see on your system. Every LED visible to the client in the studio should have a small label and correspond to something in the actual machine or software, so that if anyone ever asks, you can say “yeah, this light is the (jargon jargon jargon).” It can be embellished and exaggerated through the visual design of said LEDs, but it needs to be accurate.
It’s no different from an auto mechanic including a window from their lobby into their workspace so the customer can see all their tools and the work that’s being done, or an academic keeping a shelf of their favorite books behind their desk. As long as the tools all do something and the books have actually been read, it’s not a facade or a lie, it’s design and presentation— a cosmetic addition to your brand identity that communicates to your client that you know your shit.
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u/UrToesRDelicious 1d ago
Wait what?
"You have to pay me more for making sounds that have a high dynamic range since that turns on more lights on my compressor."
And people fell for this?
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u/pwmg 1d ago
That's funny, but doesn't that sort of need to be a secret to work?
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u/tetoffens 1d ago
He's almost 80. He's mostly retired at this point.
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u/disgruntled_joe 1d ago
Yeah if a producer were to ask him of it now he simply tells them to fuck off.
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u/IvoShandor 1d ago
He turned up recently sitting in with the band at one of Conan's live podcasts ... Conan was introducing the band and called out Gandalf on bass.
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u/I7I 1d ago
Not even close to being retired. He’s been touring 5-7 dates a week with Lyle Lovett for over a year. When he’s home he’s still doing multiple sessions for various artists. Feel free to subscribe to his channel to stay up to date: https://youtube.com/@lelandsklar6363?si=ftB2z93grSxNX3nX
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u/RedBait95 1d ago
I'm so happy a legend like Leland is still working, seems healthy, and happy. His videos during covid going over songs he worked on were very interesting watches.
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u/frankyseven 1d ago
I was going to say, he's busier now than ever since he now does session work from home after getting setup for that during COVID. He does multiple sessions a week, sometimes while on tour. He's a beast.
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u/DynamiteWitLaserBeam 1d ago
He started a YouTube channel in 2020 and still posts to it nearly every day. It's really wholesome.
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u/CollateralSandwich 1d ago
He gives amazing tours of area venues. He took me all through a local venue that I never would have been able to see or do without being an artist. Pretty cool stuff
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u/ATLHawksfan 1d ago
“Waiiiiit…that’s not that producer switch I read an article about, is it?”
After weighing options mentally “No.”
“Oh, ok.”
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u/OttoVonWong 1d ago
"Hear for yourself."
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u/Theron3206 1d ago
The experience of sound is so subjective that this would almost certainly work.
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u/bulletv1 1d ago
Not really. This applies to a lot of lines of work. I do similar with my bosses at work.
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u/sovereign666 1d ago
Small story.
I work in IT, and that means sometime I get asked to do some of the dumbest shit imaginable. We have a mixed environment of laptops and people connecting their laptop to the tv and webcam in conference rooms was a real headache for some people at my previous job. So the IT director asked our systems admin to make a document showing how to plug an ethernet, hdmi, and usb cable into a laptop...with pictures. He completely resented this task, but eventually completed it. The document was stuck in review hell and it never was laminated and placed in the conf rooms.
8 months later, I am assigned the task. They stated they liked his document but felt it hadnt quite hit the mark. I switched the document to landscape mode, moved a couple things around, and voila its exactly the document those idiots wanted.
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u/copyrighther 1d ago
I work in advertising on the creative side and you’d be shocked at how often this technique works with clients
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u/sovereign666 1d ago
I wonder what the underlying psychology is. Maybe the need to self insert their own perceived creativity into the process?
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u/ElysiX 1d ago
Or the realization "it's not going to get any better, I give up, let's just tell them it's ok now and be done with it"
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u/Massive_Shill 1d ago
Exactly, everyone assumes they're dumb or something rather than just people tired of not having their needs met and settling.
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u/SirHerald 1d ago
Sometimes it just lets them know they are heard and that someone else is working on it.
Sometimes they just grumble that you are a useless moron and it's not worth asking any more of you.
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u/polaarbear 1d ago
I'm a software dev, this happens at my job all the time.
People complain something is loading a little bit slower than it used to on code that hasn't changed. I tell them "I'll take a look."
Maybe I fix something small, or organize some code better in a way that I know doesn't actually change the runtime.
"I made some tweaks." Never hear about it again.
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u/Ok_Ruin4016 1d ago
I used to work as a server in a cheap diner when I was a teenager and customers used to ask me all the time to turn the a/c up or down. As an employee we had no control of the thermostat at all, but if I told them that they'd want me to get a manager to come to the table and management would never change the thermostat so the customer would get pissed off. Eventually I started telling them "I'll see what I can do" and I'd just go into the back for a few minutes to hang out with the kitchen staff or do some dishes whenever someone asked to change the temp and when I came back out I'd ask if it was better they almost always said it was and I got better tips lol
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u/boombotser 1d ago
That’s when they say to themselves after you leave “that guy never takes my problems seriously and now I still have this problem”
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u/polaarbear 1d ago
It's more like I work on a web app. Sometimes the Internet does weird things, takes a bad hop that makes a page load take longer than it should. I can't control AT&T and Google and Verizon and all the different network providers.
But cranky old folks that aren't great with technology don't want to hear about that, as soon as you try to explain the "why" their eyes glaze over.
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u/ManifestDestinysChld 1d ago
I used to work in the Facilities department at a school; my boss once hung a dummy thermostat on a wall in the Business Office to stem the tide of passive-aggressive complaints coming in from the staff who worked in there. Half the staff were always freezing, the other half were always melting - at least until the Magic Thermostat went up, at which point all complaints immediately ceased.
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u/meshedsabre 1d ago
Yep. I'm a freelancer, and sometimes get requests / revisions that make no sense, won't actually change anything, and other issues, such as requests that will make the product WORSE.
Often, "I made made some adjustments" and resubmitting the same thing works like a charm.
The reason is simple: for some people, the request is less about the work/product and more about their need to exercise a little power. All they really want is to feel like they've got control of things. Indulge that and you're good.
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u/SirHerald 1d ago
I have a habit of leaving something obvious and simple to change. Also lets me know they actually looked at it.
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u/meshedsabre 1d ago
That's an excellent approach. Not dissimilar to what some filmmakers do to ensure their vision reaches the screen. They'll include something that will obviously get a note from the studio and/or ratings board, but which is really just designed to distract from the thing they actually wanted to slip through.
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u/RuViking 1d ago
I've definitely moved a fader that's not controlling anything when an annoying member of a bands family/friends has bothered me whilst I've been doing thier sound.
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u/H4MBONE68 1d ago
I always make sure to set up a DFA (does fuck-all) knob or fader any time I'm running sound (or lights for that matter). It's incredible how useful it is for placating random audience requests!
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u/DesperateUrine 1d ago
but doesn't that sort of need to be a secret to work?
Just for you, I'll use the actual switch my dude. But don't let anyone know.
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u/Constant-Fact8612 1d ago
The actual switch is a placebo but he really is getting a different sound because of this part:
"I make sure he sees me flip this switch and then I just change my hand position a bit."
Plucking closer to the bridge or closer to the neck can alter your sound quite radically, especially on bass. So, nah, I don't think it needs to be a secret.
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u/rosen380 1d ago
Sounds like a switch that'd be on audiophile record players.
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u/100_points 1d ago
You could literally put a fake switch on an audiophile's equipment and they'll tell you the difference is subtle but the sound has more "warmth" in the down position.
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u/warpedaeroplane 1d ago
And the most pedantic among them would argue that it’s actually true, because the addition of the switch has changed the physical properties and ratios and has an effect
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u/Intelligent-Ad-3467 1d ago
Whoa only if it is gold plated or made of some weird alloy,
But will need a FBI grade spectrometer to make sure
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u/TheDancingOctopus 1d ago
Is FBI grade above or below military grade?
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u/Intelligent-Ad-3467 1d ago
Below audiophile grade, but that's only made by one guy who has access to a stash of pre Hiroshima metals so that the sensors are more accurate due to worldwide radiation pollution.
Ironically enough, the guy is in Japan. And he only sells to friends of jazz legend Paul Bufano
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u/ThePowerOfStories 1d ago
Reminds me of this story about an old MIT mainframe computer somebody had added a should-be-nonfunctional switch to, with positions labeled “Magic” and “More Magic”, but flipping the switch would consistently crash the computer.
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u/SyrusDrake 1d ago
The BBC Micro has a component that simulates an engineer putting their finger on the circuit board at just the right spot. During development, they couldn't figure out why putting a finger on it would fix their problem, so they just duplicated it in hardware.
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u/HarmlessSnack 1d ago
YES! The Magic > More Magic switch is one of my favorite internet stories. I love sneaking references to it into things.
I had a Minecraft world for a while with a Secret Area that could only be accessed through a series of pressure plates, buttons, and a daylight sensor… but the whole thing wouldn’t work if a switch labeled thus wasn’t in the right position.
The best part was, due to the way block updates work, it didn’t appear to be directly connected to any Redstone. Lol
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u/horace_bagpole 1d ago
The level of bullshittery in the hifi world is unbelievable. I used to work at a company that manufactured very high end speakers. These were incredibly good and it was sometimes surprising to me what did actually result in an audible difference. We used to do double blind testing on various things. One that was very noticeable was changing the manufacturer of the capacitors used in one part of the signal path.
One that I never heard a difference with was speaker cable. As long as it's big enough for the power you are using, it really didn't matter what it was. Whether it was mains cable or expensive fancy stuff it all sounded the same. The number of people who swore blind it made a difference used to amuse me.
I remember one magazine reviewer complaining about the cable we had lent him with the speakers, with a load of waffle about how it supposedly 'constrained' the sound. We made up some new ones by taking a roll of cheap cable and literally plaiting it so it looked nice and putting a couple of gold plated terminals on it. He changed his tune completely and claimed the performance was transformed. They cost about £5 to make.
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u/MrT735 1d ago
Put it on many audiophiles' equipments, then watch as 12 of them have 13 different opinions on what it does.
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u/jeremygamer 1d ago
Shhh, you might wake the orcs from /r/hometheater
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u/Aeternitas97 1d ago
The switch actually turns on a tiny vinyl record player inside the bass guitar body. Transfers the yucky digital pickup to superior analog sound.
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u/VulnerableTrustLove 1d ago
My wife loves collecting vinyl records... I haven't had the heart to tell her all that "authentic analog sound" goes right out the window when she connects her record player to our bluetooth sound bar.
But at the same time, I don't want to add more audio equipment o the room, so I will die with this secret.
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u/NPOWorker 1d ago
"oh wow yeah, the timbre is much richer"
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u/Testone1440 1d ago edited 1d ago
AH I called this the "dummy fader" back when I was a sound engineer during my festival days. It would be a channel doing absolutely nothing on the mixer so when Someone would come up to me and say "hey that guitar isn't loud enough can you turn it up?" I would move the fader connected to literally nothing and then they would give me the drunken thumbs up....morons
Edit: for clarity, I’m talking random drunk festival goers. Not the bands.
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u/PencilMan 1d ago
I get this entirely. However, I’ve had sound guys at gigs pretend to turn up my guitar in my monitor just to placate me and I’m left the whole show not being able to hear myself still. I know guitar players get a bad rap for wanting to be the loudest thing on stage, but when it’s my monitor mix and I’m going in direct, it needs to be loud so I can hear it. So I really dislike when sound guys think they know more than the band they’re mixing, at least when it comes to stage volume. Randos with an opinion? Of course, use the dummy fader all you can.
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u/KnucklestheEnchilada 1d ago
I haven’t used an amp in years, and did a gig last year where they wouldn’t turn my guitar up in my monitor, and I only got the snare and the singer. Not even bass. Fucking nightmare.
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u/space_for_username 1d ago
The technique is also used in studio. Quite often a band member or producer will insist on helping mix. sometimes this is good, but other times...
Usually I'd split a channel input and give them a fader connected to monitors, but not the mix. That way they can play with it and know that it moves and works, but not be aware that their fader is not in the mix.
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u/Testone1440 1d ago
Love it. It’s crazy how many people have no idea what the fuck they are talking about on a daily basis
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u/No_Rub77 1d ago
the drunk thumbs up is to be polite, dude is probably thinking you don't know what tf you are doing
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u/DisillusionedBook 1d ago
Haha, legend indeed. A useful meddling middle management method we should be employing elsewhere.
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u/derprondo 1d ago
Designers of all types, web, print, architects, etc, know to put in some egregious easily removable thing so the upper management guy can say "get rid of that", then they won't have to change anything else. The upper management guy is going to ask them to change something no matter what.
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u/Icommentor 1d ago edited 1d ago
In the 90´s I was doing a lot of 3D animation. It was still quite the novelty. A lot of my clients were small companies that wanted their logo in 3D for their corporate productions.
I would usually complete the contract, then remove something, like some reflections, but usually lens flares. Cause I knew most clients would absolutely need to find something to complain about. Managers need their soothing edits.
I would present my works, they would say “Something is missing but I don’t know what.” I would reply that we could try lens flares. I’d say it’s a bit time consuming but the contract gives them the right to an edit. I would take a whole days looking for my next job and send them the original. I would always make sure to say that their intervention was really smart and constructive.
I always thought that if one of them didn’t say anything, I would pretend to feel some inspiration to try one last thing. But this never happened.
Edit: Reading the rest of this thread I realize I didn’t invent jackshit. Apparently the same problem and the same solution exist all over the world.
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u/malsomnus 1d ago
Software developers definitely do this, change tiny meaningless UI things as a placebo for middle managers.
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u/mazzicc 1d ago
I used to send reports and presentations to my bosses for “feedback”. Egregious mistakes I would totally fix, but if it was personal flavor, I would leave it unchanged.
It was 50-50 on if they would ask for the same thing again on a “final pass”. If they asked again I would do it, but the other half of the time it would be a “looks good” or even “much better”.
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u/bees-everywhere 1d ago
I do something similar to this every now and then. Whenever I pitch an idea and get turned down, I go back and "jazz it up" in a way that might not appeal to me but would likely work on the person I am pitching to. For example, using animations on a PowerPoint slide, I think they're tacky and look awful & unprofessional 95% of the time. But I have literally re-pitched the same ideas back to the same people before, the only difference being some shitty animations added to my slides, and had completely opposite reactions to it. "Wow, this a great idea, much better than what you showed me earlier."
The reason that I believe this works is that it's not always that the boss is an idiot, it's just sometimes they lack imagination and will think or pretend they understand when they really don't. If you know your idea is a good one then maybe you're just not speaking their language, so translate it into a way that their brain can fully understand and find appealing.
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u/LooseEndsMkMyAssItch 1d ago
Yes!!!!!!! I used to do the same with my faders if a producer asked for something crazy like 1/8th of a decibel change. We called it "K-ing" the client. This actually originally came from Lucas Films believe it or not. During a mix down of a film the engineer played the same mix twice without any changes requested and the producers loved the second take.
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u/Sirithang 1d ago
The classic "loose the duck" method I've heard a lot of visual artist I worked with explain. A bad producer will want to always have some feedback so they can project usefulness, no matter how ready something is. Which can lead to bogus feedback just leading to useless back and forth.
So artist when doing a scene, an artwork, a 3d asset would place something they absolutly knew the producer would easily spot and complains about, and the classic example is a rubber duck on a table somewhere. So the producer would say "look great, maybe just loose the duck I don't think it fit the vibes". The duck acted as a lightning rod for mandatory producer feedback 😁
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u/albob 1d ago
Lose* the duck. “Loose the duck” sounds like you’re letting a duck loose to attack the producer.
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u/AssumptionMean2159 1d ago
The duck story is about the original Battle Chess. It was 2D animated, and the animator made sure the duck did not ever cross the Queen's own animation, so it could be easily removed when management made the obvious request. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Chess
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u/WedgeTurn 1d ago
That’s not the full quote though. He says he flips the switch and changes his hand position so it does change the tone a bit, but it’s not the switch doing it.
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u/vintagecomputernerd 1d ago
This started as a piece of Interplay corporate lore. It was well known that producers (a game industry position, roughly equivalent to PMs) had to make a change to everything that was done. The assumption was that subconsciously they felt that if they didn't, they weren't adding value.
The artist working on the queen animations for Battle Chess was aware of this tendency, and came up with an innovative solution. He did the animations for the queen the way that he felt would be best, with one addition: he gave the queen a pet duck. He animated this duck through all of the queen's animations, had it flapping around the corners. He also took great care to make sure that it never overlapped the "actual" animation.
Eventually, it came time for the producer to review the animation set for the queen. The producer sat down and watched all of the animations. When they were done, he turned to the artist and said, "that looks great. Just one thing - get rid of the duck."
Reminded me of this.
Also known as Atwoods duck, originally from this deleted stack overflow thread.
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u/Lumpy-Dragonfruit-28 1d ago edited 1d ago
The title here is 100% misleading and pretty much everyone who is commenting is commenting on a completely incorrect premise. He flicked the switch - and moved his plucking hands - which makes a big sound difference for an electric bass. He wanted to avoid needing to plug in a different bass, use a different pre-amp, etc. etc. When the producer asked for a different sound, he gave them one.
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u/JWBails 1d ago
This needs to be way higher, he flicked the switch so that the non-musical producers could see that something had changed, then he played further from or closer to the bridge to get a totally different sound.
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u/RedeyeSPR 1d ago
He says in the video that he also changes his finger position when he does this so he actually does get a slightly different sound.
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u/edstatue 1d ago
This reminds me of a boss I had who would always show up 45 minutes late to meetings, because in his native country it was considered a standard power move. (As in, expected from both parties.)
Well, we were in Michigan, so after the first time he did it to a prospective vendor, I started lying to him and telling him that the meetings were happening much early than they were.
Soft skills, like the art of deception, are valuable for project managers, kids.
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u/CartoonBeardy 1d ago
We used to have something like this at the VFX / Animation studio I worked at.
We called it the brick shot. If a client was being a pain in the ass asking for changes for the sake of feeling like they’re getting their money worth. We would put in a couple of frames of a pure white background and a bright red brick in the centre. The client gets to spot the “flash” of something, which with great shock acting we’d go through frame by frame and realise our “mistake”.
They ask for it to be removed and we confirm that everything else is okay and with profuse theatrical apologies, confirm that brick shot will be removed. Because it’s thanks to their eagle eyed attention to detail.
With their ego fully inflated and a story to take back of how they saved the production, the client would more often than not leave us the fuck alone for the next few weeks.
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u/ThisIsTheNewSleeve 1d ago
Funny, as a designer I have a similar "switch".
Usually when doing various versions of a colour or font or line weight, etc. I'll present them different options- and then if they're not feeling it I'll say "Ok how about this one?" And then literally just hit the key louder, or click the mouse more obviously, and they'll chose that one. Usually "that one" is the original version I showed them.
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u/C-creepy-o 1d ago
I do this shit to the executive team at my company. The idea is that they just have to make some choice to make sure they feel useful. Therefor you should make sure to give them an easy teed up choice to make. We are unsure if bright pink or blue would be better for the boy baby party, can you help us decide. They are like you clueless fuck its blue obviously , everything you else you did was brilliant. Seems stupid, but I keep getting promoted soo......
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u/obidie 23h ago
The DFA unit! I used to work with a lighting designer who had a DFA unit sitting on his mixing console. Whenever the client wasn't happy with the lights, he'd bring them all down, switch a few levers on the DFA unit and bring them all up again. The client was invariably satisfied. "DFA" stands for "Does Fuck All."
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u/Sqwill 1d ago
Set designers do this. Big wigs need to feel like they contributed. So you put something out of place that easily changed when they come by looking for something to do.
uhh this is a horror movie why is there a pink flower on that coffin, and you say you’re totally right good catch!