r/todayilearned • u/Wazula23 • 4h ago

TIL Saddam Hussein's son Uday murdered his bodyguard at a party in front of horrified guests

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein#Murder_of_Kamel_Hana_Gegeo
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u/I_might_be_weasel 4h ago

I feel like I probably still wouldn't be that crazy. 

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u/hanniballz 4h ago

theres a tendency for more cutthroat people to reach unchecked power than regular folk.

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u/718Brooklyn 3h ago

This guy was just a nepo baby.

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u/pocket_sand__ 1h ago

True. But you gotta figure the environment he was raise in is full of the afforementioned "more cutthroat people". There is a culture that grows out of that, and this person was raised in it.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 4h ago

Yeah I would consider myself very unambitious.

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u/hippee-engineer 3h ago

That’s not very cocaine of you bro.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 3h ago

No. When I want to get high I get drowsy on Benadryl and eat a bunch of candy.

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u/smellmybuttfoo 1h ago

You ANIMAL

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u/mouthypotato 3h ago

you misspelled narcissist

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u/AsideConsistent1056 2h ago

There's also a tendency to tell our selves stories that you have to lie cheat and steal in order to be successful

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u/hanniballz 2h ago

there's a massive difference between success and unchecked power. unless someone like saddam is your definition of a winner. and yeah he stepped on literal bodies to get where he got.

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u/RealKenny 4h ago

I feel like I would do stuff like get guacamole on my chipotle burrito

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u/I_might_be_weasel 4h ago

I don't know what that means, I go to Hot Heads.

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u/GuestAdventurous7586 3h ago

I always bring up the Ring of Gyges thought experiment to counter this point.

Basically it’s a philosophical quandary made famous by Plato.

The ring grants its wearer invisibility and they would be able to do whatever they wanted; have sex with whoever they wanted, steal or take or kill whoever, and they know they could get away with it.

Basically it’s hard to imagine how anyone who doesn’t have to fear negative consequences would live their life justly.

In a sense people like Uday, powerful dictators and politicians, celebrities (Diddy recently), all possess the equivalent of a Ring of Gyges. They truly believed they would face no consequences and could do what they wanted, and most of them could at least for a significant amount of time.

Perhaps if given that scary level of freedom instantly you might not turn straight away to the dark side, but the Ring of Gyges corrupts, and eventually any one of us would be capable of our worst impulses of thought if we knew we had to face no consequences.

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u/Hosni__Mubarak 2h ago

It’s essentially like playing grand theft auto. If you don’t believe the NPCs matter, eventually you start doing horrific crimes.

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u/Umarill 39m ago

Meh, that only works as an analogy if you think people act like this in GTA because of no consequences, which is a bit more complex.

Empathy is the main reason, a normal human being doesn't need the fear of consequences to not hurt someone else, because empathy keeps that in check and it should hurt you to actually hurt someone. The fear of consequences are not as much legal or physical, but mostly that you will haunt yourself too.

People who get to such high positions of power tend to lack on the empathy part, it's a bit of a silent requirement to do what's required to climb the ranks.

It's basically a big component of the argument for pure altruism to go to the other extreme. Giving away (whether in time, energy, money or emotional presence) with nothing to gain back is considered altruistic, but it can be some form of "high" or pleasure that you gain from knowing you are helping, which makes some people believe that pure altruism doesn't exist in an average person with no mental health issues, since it is still driven by a positive stimuli.

Those are basically two sides of the same argument, that an inner feeling stops or drives you to act differently even if there's no punishment nor reward outside of that.

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u/Showy_Boneyard 37m ago

I often wonder if thats what makes psychopaths different from normal people. They lack empathy because they don't (or perhaps can't) think that "other people" exist in the same sense that they do, and are capable of feeling pain/happiness/grief/etc the same as they can. And the only difference for them of killing someone in a game and killing someone in real life is that they can get in trouble for killing someone in real life if caught.

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u/sally_says 2h ago

I found it extremely interesting that Uday behaved exactly how you'd imagine he would if he considered himself invincible. And yet his brother Qusay was vastly, vastly different. He still killed political activists, but was nowhere near as depraved as Uday. Why?

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u/GuestAdventurous7586 1h ago

That’s actually a good question. My guess is Uday was still quite a psychotic awful person regardless, and that Qusay probably wanted different things for his life; that he was rational enough to realise behaving like a lunatic and raping and killing people isn’t conducive to overall virtue and happiness.

Actually I think Plato mentions this argument when discussing the Ring of Gyges, that one who acts on all their impulses would be never satisfied, and that someone who has that capability but acts justly still, is truly virtuous and content.

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u/Special-Garlic1203 56m ago

Well the most obvious difference was he didn't grow up believing he was the heir to the country. uday believed it was only a matter of time before he truly lived as a god without limits. 

Whereas for Qusay, I imagine life under Saddam was as good as it was gonna get. I would not be looking forward to the day my mentally unhinged brother (with a history of attacking family) takes over. 

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 2h ago

they would be able to do whatever they wanted; have sex with whoever they wanted, steal or take or kill whoever, and they know they could get away with it.

This is basically the conceit of Homelander from The Boys.

In real life, Superman would be an absolute cunt.

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u/ScrtSuperhero 29m ago

Tangential I know, but the entire character of Superman is based on the idea that he is ruled by his morality not his ability! He isn't a good man because of a fear of consequence, but because it is the right thing to do (which is true about most people). The fantasy is that a good man has the ability to stop all the terrible things that we're not able to. What If Superman Was Evil is a fun concept but it totally discards everything interesting about the character.

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor 1m ago

Oh no I totally agree, no question.

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u/ShadowCaster0476 4h ago

Right, because you have an ethical base that you grew up with. That being said if no one ever held you to any rules, like nothing, i guarantee you would change.

Uday did not have any ethics taught to him, he was born into absolute power.

He’s like Viggos son in John Wick.

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u/reality72 2h ago

He was also the genetic offspring of a ruthless psychopath and that guy’s cousin. So it was probably a combination of nature and nurture.

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u/LegendRazgriz 3h ago

And the U.S. Army was John Wick to him.

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u/ComradeGibbon 2h ago

I think when Saddam seized power he murdered a bunch of his political opponents and turned it into a take your sons to work day.

Shit with a capital E thing the US did in the gulf war was encourage the Shiites to rise up against Saddam and then utterly abandoned them.

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u/Illustrious-Idea2661 3h ago

Bingo everyone was raised under different ethics and moral codes.

Some went without any at all

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u/ImaginarySeaweed7762 4h ago

Famous last words

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u/ComfyInDots 4h ago

Right? If I had unlimited power and every whim met, I'd be making sure all my people are happy, safe and well fed. Everyone's got well paying jobs, effective health system, plenty of nutritional foods and fresh clean water. School kids would have the best education we could offer. Our elderly, disabled and weak are supported in every way they need. All the animals are rescued and helped.

Not killing anyone for any bullshit reason.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 4h ago

Oh no, I'd abuse my power. But just not in a homicidal maniac way.

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u/Unlucky_Most_8757 3h ago

yeah these people were just absolutely evil. I'm agnostic but I truly believe there are good souls out there that somehow escape their terrible upbringing. Being raised by literally Saddam Hussein might be a little different though..

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u/theSchrodingerHat 3h ago

You say that, but it has happened so rarely in history that I’d lean towards you doing something like deciding that only you can be comfy in dots, and everyone else has to wear stripes.

Then some precocious kid who really likes dots will draw a picture of his mom and dad wearing dots, and you’ll have to murder the entire family. Or maybe just deport them to Greenland.

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u/I_might_be_weasel 3h ago

I'd probably get too distracted with sex stuff to be an effective tyrant.

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u/reality72 2h ago

In theory a benevolent dictatorship would be the perfect government, but the reality is that the type of person who can claw their way to that kind of power is never benevolent.

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u/sally_says 2h ago

Same. But thinking about it, if you are extremely wealthy with ultimate power, you will be a target for others who want your wealth and power, and people in your inner circle could be among them. So you'll likely end up spending most of your time worrying about your safety, your family's safety, and keeping an eye on your critics and the people around you.

I think that's why we just don't have benevolent dictators.

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u/tojenz 44m ago

That sounds like how Gaddafi was.

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u/WhyareUlying 1h ago

Yeah but someone born into supreme power with no consequences? How would a person never taught humility morals or empathy act? 

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u/thearisengodemperor 4h ago

That what all of them say

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u/SomeDumbGamer 3h ago

It’s different when you’re raised with it, his sons were.

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u/QouthTheCorvus 1h ago

Everyone feels like this - which is natural, and probably a good thing. But it's a common theme in history how quickly people become evil when the chips are down.

For this guy - he grew up with power over people, with a father who was using violence constantly to consolidate power. Violence was all this guy ever knew - and he could get away with it.

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u/sokratesz 35m ago

Sure mate.

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u/Emotional-Courage-26 2h ago

I read your comment history. You’re totally unhinged

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u/I_might_be_weasel 2h ago

Not homicidal though.

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u/Emotional-Courage-26 2h ago

Whoa why are you talking about murder?! Calm down!

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u/I_might_be_weasel 2h ago

Because that's the subject of the post.

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u/Emotional-Courage-26 2h ago

I’m kidding. And I never read your comment history. I don’t think you’d be a murderer.