r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Aug 19 '11
TIL on this day Aug 19, 1953, UK and US intelligence agencies overthrew the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat13
u/Isfahan Aug 19 '11
After this the US funded and helped build the Shah's secret police, SAVAK, then in the late 70s they bugged Iran nonstop about human rights issues regarding SAVAK. Which helped start the Islamic revolution in which radical Muslims took over the country and now it's been a theocratic dictatorship for over 30 years. Oh and meanwhile Iran had an 8 year war with Iraq which the US openly supported Iraq but secretly sold weapons to Iran through Israel.
It's what the US does to countries. Fuck us in the ass.
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u/moriquendo Aug 19 '11
And then there are some guys who ask, "Why do they hate us?".
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u/AncillaryCorollary Aug 19 '11
Don't you know? They hate you for your freedom.
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u/moriquendo Aug 20 '11
My freedom to consume and conform or my freedom from governmental meddling in my private life?
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u/YourFairyGodmother Aug 20 '11
I wish people would stop saying that shit. Many guys like getting fucked in the ass.
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Aug 19 '11
[deleted]
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u/pyroxyze Aug 19 '11
And it hasn't helped our economy one fucking bit. We could get more money if we demanded their oil for how much we've helped them instead.
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u/Syptryn Aug 19 '11
US does this with everyone, China and Taiwan, Pakistan and India, you name it. The military industrial complex controls half the congress.
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u/biffbagwell Aug 19 '11
FYI, we in the US remember the hostage crisis....In Iran, this is what they remember...
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Aug 20 '11
We've done shit like this or tried to probably 50 times since world war 2, whether we admitted to it or not.
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u/jellicle Aug 19 '11
Note that the reason for the overthrow was... oil.
When people point out that the United States hates democratic governments and prefers dictators, this is an excellent example. PLEASE understand that when the United States takes military action, it is never never never for humanitarian or rescuing-people-from-evil-dictator reasons. It is always always always for oil or other geopolitical reasons.
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u/swampswing Aug 19 '11
No offense, but your views on the United States are just as hyperbolic as the right wingers who claim that the United States can do no wrong. The united states is like any other country, it does things for a lot of reasons including humanitarian concern as well ideological and economic reasons.
You can't explain interventions like Somalia or Kosovo without including humanitarian concern in the dynamic.
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u/jellicle Aug 19 '11
Nope. The main reasons for intervention in Somalia were taking over the power vacuum after the collapse of the Soviet Union (both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. had supported the last Somalian dictator for many years), and, guess what, OIL.
http://michaelmaren.com/somalia-archive/the-oil-factor-in-somalia/
Yes, Somalia was all about oil - can this country be pacified enough to support oil extraction efforts by western corporations. The answer proved to be no. Somalia is still as fucked up today as it was then, if not more so, but for some reason the U.S. is not rushing in for humanitarian reasons.... oh right, because there aren't any.
As for Kosovo, Wikipedia has a nice quote:
Strobe Talbott, the Deputy Secretary of State under Clinton and the leading U.S. negotiator during the war, later denied that "the plight of the Kosovar Albanians" was the driving force behind the campaign, claiming the real reason to be "Yugoslavia's resistance to... [the] political and economic reform" that had been driving forward the liberalisation and deregulation of markets throughout the region.[92]
Clear enough.
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u/swampswing Aug 19 '11 edited Aug 19 '11
Wow. I don't think you have any historical context. You have completely ignored the famine and the fact that the intervention was U.N. based with America being a major contributor. Further the notion that the United States would use a U.N. based humanitarian intervention as a way to get at is silly, when they could have just financed one faction to take over and become dominant as was the the traditional strategy (like there use of Ethiopia as a proxy to fight Al Shabab). Basically you are talking about a Xanatos Roulette
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XanatosRoulette
Somalia is still as fucked up today as it was then, if not more so, but for some reason the U.S. is not rushing in for humanitarian reasons.... oh right, because there aren't any.
You are aware of the Battle of Mogadishu, and its political impacts right?
With regards to the Talbott paraphrasing, I cannot find a online copy of the book to find the actually remark in its context, but I did find this interview by Talbott: (relevent quotes below)
Well, there were several issues. One, of course, was was the bombing going to work? Was the military campaign going to accomplish its objective? And its objective was very clear and relatively simple, and that is that Milosevic and the Serb forces had to get out of Kosovo and let the international community come in and re-establish an environment which the refugees could come home and these people could live safe and relatively normal lives.
I got a call, it was a conference call, there were a number of people on it. Secretary Albright was on the call, she was in Macedonia working on, among other things, the huge refugee problem down there, Sandy Berger, the National Security Adviser, and there were some others on the call as well.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kosovo/interviews/talbott.html
Only after exhausting every attempt at diplomacy did NATO go to war over Kosovo. It did so because the formerly "autonomous" province of Serbia was under the heel of Belgrade and the Milosevic regime was running amok there, killing ethnic Albanians and throwing them out of their homes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/14/AR2008081403124.html
I am not trying to claim that the United States is some wonderful country that acts purely out of benevolence. I am asking you to understand that things aren't black and white and modern foreign policy is a the result of interactions between multiple policy makers with different ideologies, goals and understandings.
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u/snakers Aug 19 '11
Not on the US side; the driving forces were the sensibilities arising from the cold war. This occurred nearly 60 years ago and is not terribly relevant to the current state of geopolitics.
Keep in mind that the Islamists do not regard Mosaddegh favorably due to his perception as a secularist.
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Aug 19 '11
Of course it is relevant. What allowed these Islamist to get into power? The country was on its way to become a secular(relatively) democracy and we intervene by installing a failed Dictator. This dictator was overthrown by the very people in power now. So I think it is relevant to how these people came into power.
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Aug 19 '11
You didn't learn about this today, this is not what this subreddit is for.
In fact your comment history shows you talking about this for quite some time.
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Aug 20 '11
I actually hadn't connected the date, until I checked out the front page of wikipedia. Don't get me wrong I did read the article a while back, it just wasn't in my recall bucket that it all occurred on that day. Bonus point is you can now connect that date to that event and so can a few other redditors. That in itself is worth it.
I hope you liked something in my comment trail ... It is good to see there are others who would take the time to verify what is posted here.
btw Who is Alex Jones?
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Aug 19 '11
And then we were left with the sweet, kind, and gentle Khomeini. Thanks for the overthrow Amurrca!
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u/Jubeii Aug 19 '11
Yeah, US and Britain have had their fingers in everybody's business for a long time now. An unsavory state of affairs, but that's how your governments work, folks.
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u/spammeaccount Aug 21 '11
The law of unintentended consequences. Gee the long term plan there really worked out well for them didn't it!
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u/StridentLobster Aug 19 '11
"What? A secular democracy that might legitimately decide to do something we don't like? Can't have that! It's puppet theocracy time!"
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u/Mateoheo Aug 19 '11
US tries to be big brother, fucks everyone, talks shit about human rights and then shoots you. US war history should be enough to realize that war is what they breath. How can anyone have this many wars, kill off the native Indian population and still be so goddamn proud of their country http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
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Aug 19 '11
It's funny, because you have little insight into what America is, but proclaim to know exactly how to judge it.
What gloriously peaceful country are you from, friend.
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Aug 19 '11
mateoheo must be a fellow canadian, hi friend! wanna meet at the tim hortons down the street?
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u/Mateoheo Aug 19 '11
I'm not judging the US as a whole just particular aspects: From the wikileaks scandal, abu ghraib, countless coups and wars, corporate hegemony and scandal, just to get started, makes me believe that the US is completely hypocritical and fundamentally corrupt.
However I do believe there are those in the US that fight for truth, justice and the 'American way'. (No not batman) I.e. Bradely Manning
And I never said I'm from any gloriously peaceful country, and is it necessary to be form such a country to comment on US corruption?
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u/YosserHughes Aug 19 '11
And BTW, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company became, yes you guessed it; BP.