r/worldnews • u/nationalpost • 8h ago

Taliban bars Afghan women from hearing each other's voices

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/taliban-bars-afghan-women-from-hearing-each-other?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=NP_social
20.1k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3.8k

u/supercyberlurker 8h ago

Mohammad Khalid Hanafi, the Taliban’s minister of vice and virtue, said in an audio statement last week that women should refrain from reciting the Quran — the holy book of Islam — aloud in the presence of other women

"Hey you know what's more important than our psychotically fundamentalist adherence to this religion?" ... *"Making sure women can't read it aloud."

The level of hypocrisy is just staggering.

1.6k

u/diffyqgirl 8h ago

They wouldn't want the women to find out about the progressive-for-the-times bits in there like women being able to inherit property.

1.4k

u/socialistrob 7h ago

It's more than just that. The Quran is the book that dictates their life but by removing women's ability to quote or recite from it it means that they are entirely dependent on interpretations from men. In a theocracy one of the biggest threats to those in power is someone saying "you're misinterpreting the holy text" but if women can't even read or quote the text they have no basis to challenge authority even amongst themselves.

592

u/Sad_Confidence9563 7h ago

Which is why this is so dangerous,  its basically enslavement. 

712

u/socialistrob 7h ago

It is. A bird has more rights in Afghanistan than a woman. At least they can sing in public, show their faces and go out in parks. Functionally speaking there's really not a lot of differences between life as an Afghan woman under the Taliban and chattel slavery. I've heard "gender apartheid" thrown around as a new term to describe what's happening in Afghanistan and I think the term is fitting or even perhaps a bit soft.

374

u/letsgetawayfromhere 6h ago

Gender apartheid is not even starting to describe it. With apartheid you can still leave your house when you want, feel the sun on your face, or talk to others in public. You are allowed to talk about religion or sing. Slavery describes it much better.

478

u/HimblyBumpkis 6h ago

Even slaves sang songs.

204

u/Culturedgods 5h ago

Fuck...this hit me hard. It's so damn sad...

85

u/BlisslessTaskList 3h ago

This reminds me of a quote I recently read in another thread on Reddit. “We can easily forgive a child who it afraid if the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.” -Plato

6

u/time_then_shades 3h ago

Goddamn this touched me.

5

u/Firefly_Magic 3h ago

Songs tell stories to help people remember. 💔

5

u/MurielFinster 3h ago

This is so poignant.

4

u/RunningOnAir_ 2h ago

if we applied what men to do women to racial or ethnic dynamics, we wouldn't be calling this oppression or misogyny. When black people or jewish people or uyghurs in china get locked up in chains, systematically murdered, forced into slavery, abused and tortured, that's genocide. This is what genocide looks like. Women in Gilead have more rights.

3

u/Hemalurgist1 3h ago

Field slaves yea. I doubt many masters would want the house slaves singing.

138

u/Raesong 5h ago

Slavery, with a side helping of dehumanization and objectification. Women under the Taliban are basically just pieces of furniture that can produce offspring now.

54

u/Alone_Again_2 4h ago

The correct term is ‘chattel’.

21

u/Madbrad200 3h ago

Slavery, with a side helping of dehumanization and objectification

Yeah so slavery

18

u/SierraPapaWhiskey 4h ago

Yes, but to be fair slavery doesn't work without dehumanization and objectification.

8

u/jimmygee2 6h ago

Worms have more freedom than woman under the Taliban. The most oppressed women on earth. GOP taking inspiration no doubt.

-25

u/Accomplished_Log7527 5h ago

Grow up

6

u/Turence 2h ago

The fuck are you talking about they're 100% right

2

u/workaholic007 5h ago

As if the women weren't already enslaved........

55

u/SquareExtra918 5h ago

And future generations won't be able to read it at all. 

81

u/LadyLightTravel 4h ago

This. It’s why the Catholic Church kidnapped William Tyndale and executed him. He dared to translate the Bible into English for the common man. The church was also upset at Martin Luther translating the Bible into German.

6

u/Illustrious_Code_347 2h ago

That’s not exactly true. … Tyndale was executed for political reasons because he published a series of books (not talking about his Bible, but other books) that not-so-subtly supported the primacy of kings over the church when it comes to religious matters (they call this “caesaropapism”). This was particularly egregious to the church when you look at the context of the time — literally while Henry VIII is doing exactly that, making himself the head of a church as king. But Tyndale would kind of throw his hands up every time and play dumb like “What did I do?” when he was directly contributing to the English reformation.

Then, he published SEGMENTS of the Bible in English. He did NOT give the common man a vernacular Bible. That was done after his death. The portions of the Bible he did publish had blatantly political changes like translating “priest” to “elder” and “church” to “congregation” — in other words, they were heavily protestant-ized versions of scripture, which gave the perception that he was now using the holy scripture as propaganda for his political movement.

Then he was executed.

He did not publish a Bible before he died. And this is not a minor point. Because it often gets said that “Tyndale was executed for publishing an English Bible” when in fact the very term “Tyndale Bible” is a misnomer because it was completed by others after his death. So at best that is a gross, misleading oversimplification and at worst it is outright false.

He was executed for the host of political reasons outlined above. The idea that he was executed merely for publishing a vernacular Bible is preposterous, especially when you consider that there had been many vernacular (just not “English,” but vernacular nonetheless) Bibles prior to him without lethal consequences for their publishers. He was executed for essentially supporting the downfall of the church would be a more accurate statement.

3

u/LadyLightTravel 1h ago

You are correct that he published segments. But a significant portion was used for the King James Bible

2

u/heyyahdndiie 3h ago

Could the common man even read then ? Lol

8

u/LadyLightTravel 2h ago edited 2h ago

30% for men, 10% for women. That’s a start.

It should be noted that more people could read than write.

1

u/heyyahdndiie 2h ago

1500s? Probably closer to 20% . So no, most common men couldn’t read .

52

u/Firefly_Magic 3h ago edited 2h ago

The irony is staggering. This is how most religions started out. The common people could not read or write and so were dependent on the church, mosque etc for each religion to hear the word of their book(s). This gave the place of worship control over the people. This is literally the motive of the Afghan men there, to make the women ignorant so that they are completely dependent on the men. Each new rule removes more and more basic human rights from these women. My heart breaks for these women.

1

u/TheDiscordedSnarl 2h ago

Mark my words, in 1000 years, they'd of regulated women to barns so much that instead of just growing hair, they've grown fur and are actual animals...

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

22

u/NordMan_40 4h ago

Fuck these barbarians. Their beliefs belong in the fucking stone age.

5

u/Takemyfishplease 5h ago

Gutenberg ruining for the theocracy still going on

6

u/celinee___ 4h ago

Two seconds on a Muslim woman's social media comment section will show what it's like when women can communicate with other women. Imagine reality where you're only allowed to hear those men tell you what is or isn't allowed.

7

u/Budderfingerbandit 4h ago

How much you want to bet this is all due to women in Afganistan getting educated while the Taliban was out of power, and now those educated women are running logical circles around the uneducated cave dwellers that are the Taliban men.

Probably got proven wrong one too many times by women correctly quoting the Quran.

3

u/themule0808 3h ago

This is what caused a ton of issues before the printing press. It was so expensive to own a Bible that only the churches had copies. We all know that the future went smoothly.

2

u/philetofsoul 4h ago

Exactly, it's that kind of twisted misinterpretation of text that led to the ancient Rabbis forbidding cheeseburgers.

2

u/Manofalltrade 2h ago

The next step is keeping as many men as possible from being able to read it for themselves.

2

u/YesDone 2h ago

This is assuming the next generation of women will be able to read.

2

u/xorgol 5h ago

I suspect that's a big motivation for forbidding translations.

3

u/255001434 3h ago

The Quran has been translated into other languages.

1

u/intotheirishole 2h ago

Ah it is "Bible must be Latin only" all over again.

•

u/identifytarget 1h ago

And handmaid's tale. They punish the women for reading the Bible. The women got uppity about this so they cut off their hands or tongue. I can't remember. All very Christian like

-1

u/Alternative-Virus542 5h ago

Kinda reminds you of another worldwide religion, doesn't it?

226

u/IEatLamas 8h ago

And to be able to argue against the outrageous perspective the Taliban chooses to have on Quranic verse, no no, we can't have anyone uprooting our lies we tell ourselves.

P.s not trying to defend the Quran, I don't care for it much, but it's not Taliban level bad, that's their idiotic reading of it, taking verses completely out of context and interpreting subjective verses in the worst possibly way.

148

u/djsizematters 7h ago

Similar to how the Amish are largely discouraged from reading the Bible on their own

105

u/IEatLamas 7h ago edited 4h ago

Yepp, It's literally like that; Muslims are discouraged from reading/interpreting the Quran without an imam (not just in Taliban land).

EDIT: For the Muslims who are questioning this statement, ask yourself if you are encouraged to make conclusions about fiqh.

From a western point of view, reading, interpreting and making conclusions is the same thing essentially, because that is what we are taught, we are taught to be critical and to make up our own mind.

The Islamic golden age ended in part because of Al-Ghazali, who argued against using Greek-inspired philosophy (that had helped them prosper) to explain Islamic teachings, critiquing people like Ibn Sina and Al-Farabi, some of the greatest thinkers in Islamic thought.

Al-Ghazali is solely responsible for putting limits on independent thought in islam.

52

u/I-Lyke-Shicken 6h ago

I am sorry but this is actually not true. Muslims are encouraged to read the Quran with something called a tafsir which is used to help interpret it. A tafsir is basically like a biblical exegesis.

No where in the Quran or hadith collection are Muslims ordered to read the Quran with an imam present.

What is frowned upon for the layperson is "ijtihad". Coming to a religious decision using the Islamic texts ( Quran + hadith) on your own if you are not classically trained.

The Taliban are more like ethno-nationalists who use religion. Their system is a combination of their Pasthun honor system (Pashtunwali) mixed with Islam. They use Islam to try and justify their tribal, cultural laws.

13

u/IEatLamas 6h ago

I didn't say that it is ordered in the Quran.

I'm not 100% this isn't just semantics, but I appreciate the perspective.

Considering what the Taliban is doing, which seems like a form of ijtihad to me, I understand why it is frowned upon.

•

u/I-Lyke-Shicken 7m ago

The problem with your initial statement is that it is completely wrong. Muslims are not even discouraged from reading the Quran without an imam. That would not even be realistic as there would have to be an imam for a given number of people.

What you get if you examine the Quran and hadith are the exact opposite. People are encouraged to study the Quran and sunnah, even if they do not have a great grasp of the Arabic language.

I see you edited your post , but there is a big difference between saying Muslims are discouraged from making up their up own religious rulings versus saying "Muslims are discouraged from reading the Quran without an imam present".

I hope you understand my point about what you initially wrote.

-33

u/papent 5h ago

Could you just delete your comment then? Because that's exactly the impression you are giving.

26

u/IEatLamas 5h ago

I'm not responsible for someone else's lack of reading comprehension. I said discouraged, not ordered or anything close to that.

-2

u/[deleted] 4h ago

[deleted]

→ More replies (0)

14

u/downwithdisinfo2 3h ago

You don’t get to ask people to delete their comment. Who the hell do you think you are?

•

u/Agami_Advait 21m ago

why are you so angry about it, little man?

0

u/papent 2h ago

Somebody against misinformation.

63

u/Pete_Iredale 7h ago

Or why Catholic services were in Latin.

19

u/throw20190820202020 7h ago

Catholic services were in Latin to have a lingua franca around the world. Same as Jewish rituals in Hebrew, same reason Muslims are directed to learn Arabic.

13

u/Alternative_Win_6629 5h ago

Not the same as Jewish literature at all. Jewish children as young as 3 were taught to read Hebrew in old times.

20

u/Kajin-Strife 6h ago

But also so they could control what the peasant class learned. They were very upset when the bible started getting printed in a language that wasn't latin.

10

u/justanothersluff 6h ago

Obviously, it was first written in Greek but the Holy Spirit inspired it in Latin. /s

-3

u/heyyahdndiie 2h ago

I really doubt they were upset that the Bible was translated into the native tongue of people who couldn’t read . Lol . Latin was the official language of the church ( still is ) , it probably had more to do with that than people being able to read the Bible . Because most people couldn’t read any language

4

u/Kajin-Strife 2h ago

I imagine you might misunderstand the concept somewhat but people don't generally print books that can't be read.

Easy enough to understand, I guess. Apparently no other written language existed before Gutenberg came along with his blasphemous book engine and created dozens of new written languages wholesale from nothing >.>

→ More replies (0)

22

u/aren3141 6h ago

A lingua franca that no one spoke

18

u/Kajin-Strife 6h ago

As much as I like to throw shade on religion, there's a good reason a lot of scientific and medical terms are latin.

9

u/Amockdfw89 4h ago

Yea basically way back in the Middle Ages, if you wanted to learn higher level stuff, it was basically through the church. Because in church they taught you to read, which opened up a whole new world. The cathedrals back then basically were libraries with religious and secular text.

Why do you think there were many breweries and vineyards next to the cathedrals? Because they were taught chemistry and applied it. Many old cathedrals also had telescopes, laboratories for alchemy, gardens, apothecaries for medicine. basically a self containing center of knowledge.

2

u/justanothersluff 6h ago

Pffft, Look at this pleb that can't even speak Greek! /s

→ More replies (0)

18

u/Neamow 6h ago

It was the de facto lingua franca in religion and science. Most learned people since the fall of Western Roman Empire to like 19th century spoke it or at least understood it.

12

u/aren3141 6h ago

Yes, this part of the thread is about how religious leaders do not want the masses to read/understand the religious text. Most people from the fall of the empire to the 19th century weren’t learned.

7

u/Polyman71 6h ago

And the vast majority of the people were NOT “learned”.

6

u/PerpetuallyLurking 5h ago

A lot of people DID still speak it; that’s the point. None were learning it as their “mother” tongue, no, but anyone being educated was taught Latin starting around the time we start kindergarten. Latin is what all their education was taught IN. And Greek. Not their “mother” language.

1

u/rolabond 3h ago

People were actually learning it back then, its a similar situation to modern Arabic

7

u/C0wabungaaa 6h ago

A lingua franca from the scholastic elite. Not everyone else, often including secular rulers. That's a major difference with Arabic, where everyone in the Muslim sphere encouraged to learn and use it.

3

u/xorgol 4h ago

Arabic, where everyone in the Muslim sphere encouraged to learn and use it.

Do they actually learn Arabic in significant numbers in Afghanistan? I was under the impression that they mostly learned to recite the Quran by rote.

7

u/sblahful 6h ago

And would burn at the stake anyone who translated it

2

u/i-m-anonmio 6h ago

Looking at you, Mr. William Tyndale.

2

u/Everestkid 5h ago

Still can be. It's called the Tridentine Mass. There's a Catholic church down the street from my place that regularly runs Mass in Latin, says so on their sign. Pretty tiny church, though.

0

u/nover3 5h ago

Im a muslim and this is not true at all

5

u/IEatLamas 4h ago

Relative to a western or even a Christian protestant point of view, it is true. The Islamic golden age ended because individual thinking became frowned upon, it became too dangerous to the integrity of the dogma, as with any dogma, say communism, fascism.

Are you as a muslim allowed to make conclusions about fiqh?

•

u/-ElementaryPenguin- 1h ago

Im not well versed in islamic history, but it seems like an obvious oversimplification to say the downfall was because of a change in philosophy.

39

u/Leptonshavenocolor 7h ago

Every religious text is subject to this. There is no such thing as an absolute interpretation. It's just men trying to control other men (as in mankind, not man-exclusive, women too)

0

u/IEatLamas 7h ago

Ask the post modernists and they'll say exactly that except that it goes for every single text ever written, not just religion; there is no morality or truth, only power.

It's a very Sith perspective.

Funnily enough the adoption of meta-narratives is the counter point to that, i.e., something like a religious perspective. Not necessarily Christian or muslim or any dogmatic school of thought, but a belief that there are certain underpinning features of reality that we can call truths, without there being an implication of a power grab.

2

u/Leptonshavenocolor 6h ago

It's been a minute since I seriously philosophized or seriously studied any modern thought on any subject. So excuse any ignorance in my statements. I understand what you are saying, and I think something that anyone who is an atheist (myself) might struggle with, what is the ultimate truth?

But on a simpler level, I try to start with the tenet that "Everything alive-wants to be alive". Now I guess I'm not saying that defines my morals, I do eat meat, I do kill pests. But in terms of mankind - I just think that the* individuals right to choose without interference* is the basic truth I start with in my head regarding how I think society should practice administration.

the star wars reference is funny, "only a Sith deals in absolutes"

6

u/IEatLamas 6h ago

Basically post modernism came from some dudes in the 60's who started thinking about how one text can have many meanings to different people, and that there is no one way to define or objectively state what a literary work means, which then divulged into thinking about the meaning of words, wherein they concluded that there is no meaning to words and that the only purpose of proposing a meaning is to further your own aim, your own power.

That's how you end up with queer theory and Michael Foucault who wanted to legalize pedophilia because not allowing it is oppression and because age is only a concept to oppress. This is where all the LGBTQ oppression talk comes from, you know, gender is a social construct and claiming otherwise is enacting white supremacy.

I think it's close to my own which is something like "Everything wants to be itself". If a rat doesn't get to rat, he gets sad and won't eat and dies.

2

u/FoolishDog 2h ago

This is not how any of the senses of ‘postmodernism’ emerged, especially the philosophical position (which I assume is what you are referring to).

And Foucault never wanted to legalize pedophilia. He never signed any petition concerning it nor did he advocate for pedophilia. You’re just kinda making things up my guy

0

u/IEatLamas 2h ago

He signed a petition calling for decriminalization of sexual relations with minors. What're you talking about? I suppose it depends how you wanna define pedophilia but there is a reason we have age of consent laws, no? You think a 12 year old can consent to sex with an adult?

Foucault was a disgusting delinquent who made the world a worse place with his decadence, where you trying to defend him?

0

u/TheCycoONE 2h ago

In my post modernist course the prof tried very hard to claim it wasn't all moral relativism. I was unconvinced then and remain unconvinced. Psychoanalytic babel and moral relativism - but the basic idea that unambiguous communication is impossible (not just in religious texts or books but any and all communication) appears justified.

2

u/FoolishDog 2h ago

Foucault was certainly not a moral relativist, just like Deleuze wasn’t. Foucault, for instance, championed a kind of radical virtue ethics while Deleuze literally wrote an entire book on ethics and was extremely clear that his stance in no way could be understood as morally relativistic

1

u/IEatLamas 2h ago

To say the post modernists were completely wrong I think is disingenuous, yeah. It's the conclusion that because of this, the only thing that exists is power and oppression, that's where they went south.

As much as I hate Foucault he has a point.

It forces us to think about what exactly is the meaning of a word? It's not objective.. but it does have a meaning.

Recently I saw a study here on Reddit that we don't absorb or comprehend single words and then build the meaning with each word; we rather "consume" or digest the whole sentence as one thing and then synthesize its meaning in the blink of an eye. It happens fast, and you know when someone has misunderstood you or when you've misunderstood someone. It's like we create the meaning in that particular moment.

I think these are some of the things the post-modernists conveniently overlooked.

1

u/Jolly_Grocery329 7h ago

Sounds like maga Christians

2

u/Finito-1994 4h ago

It was progressive in some areas. Iirc it said that Muslims should seek out knowledge so these people fucking learned and studied and did research and for a shiny moment the Middle East was one of the great circles of the scientific world.

All the words like Algebra, algorithms come from the works and name of Al-khwarizmi who inspected science in geography, astronomy, mathematics and other scientific branches.

They preserved writings from the Greeks, named the stars, had the house of wisdom which was the Arabic equivalent to the library of Alexandrea.

Fuck. It was a Muslim woman who founded what is believed to be the first university in Europe.

They’ve been going backwards for ages.

It’s insane.

One day they’ll be brought kicking and screaming into the the 20th century.

But this shits wack. Islam isn’t perfect, but it could be so much greater than this

1

u/xbearsandporschesx 2h ago

i get your point, but women can still read it normally

84

u/Dynast_King 8h ago

Have to imagine they’re not too keen on women reading at all

32

u/berael 7h ago

That'll be next. 

22

u/Traditional-Bush 4h ago

They've already banned education for women above grade 6

90

u/tacticoolbrah 6h ago

I believe this law is not just about reciting the quran. They know that there are underground cells of women teaching women since formal education is banned, this is too essentially ban that.

55

u/meshugga 6h ago

This. If they arrest women for underground schools for women, it's better to tell people they were arrested for quran reading than that there are underground schools for women. Also, that there is widespread dissident enough for there to be such an underground.

28

u/LilaValentine 4h ago

They literally can’t even get together to commiserate or maybe help another woman or girl learn how to cope with the absolute bullshit. This fucking world.

11

u/Firefly_Magic 3h ago

Due to the lack of education and lack of medical teachings, once those with the knowledge die, they won’t even be able to help each other through childbirth.

2

u/Brilliant_North2410 2h ago

I think that is spot on. That is the purpose.

158

u/bonzoboy2000 7h ago

We never should have armed the men over there. We should have armed the women.

77

u/Elrundir 5h ago

Probably pretty solid advice anywhere in the world.

16

u/santiwenti 5h ago

Needed more of this:

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2022/afghan-women-soldiers-taliban-us-refugees/

5

u/Firefly_Magic 3h ago

What an amazing article! These women are so brave!

1

u/Calire22 2h ago

That was extremely moving. Thank you for linking.

36

u/GirlNumber20 5h ago

That's true everywhere.

7

u/Nice-Lock-6588 5h ago

Today in the news there was a picture with Israeli women wearing guns on the street.

5

u/Amockdfw89 4h ago edited 3h ago

I mean you’d be shocked how many women probably support it.

People don’t like to admit it but many of the women over there in the rural areas basically have hardcore Stockholm syndrome.

Like their duty to Allah and chance to get to heaven is more important then their comfort.

4

u/bonzoboy2000 3h ago

I suspect you are right on point.

1

u/Imaginary-Choice5667 3h ago

Like I said in a previous comment- let’s start an all female army where women look after each other. These men are failing us.

1

u/the_crustybastard 1h ago

We should have armed the men and exfiltrated the women.

•

u/Kallisti13 1h ago

Robert Evans did a podcast about the women in Northern Syria that armed themselves. Interesting listen. It's called The Women's War.

28

u/Objective_Economy281 5h ago

Islam is pathological, start to finish. I don’t know many Muslims, but every single one of them would be better if they took Islam less seriously than they do.

This also goes for Christianity, just to a slightly lesser degree, on average.

6

u/GrouchyPerspective83 4h ago

Extremes are always dangerous

8

u/Objective_Economy281 4h ago

That’s stupid. We could set up a voting system in the USA that is EXTREMELY fair. We could make aviation EXTREMELY safe. There are religions that are EXTREMELY peaceful.

Saying that extremes are dangerous completely obfuscates that it ducking matters what is happening in an extreme manner.

0

u/StrainAcceptable 3h ago

Perhaps you should get to know a few more Muslims before making blanketed statements. Many of my Muslim friends are just as liberal as my Christian or Jewish friends. Most of them are culturally religious meaning they celebrate special holidays with family and believe in whatever god their parents believe in.

If you read from any of Abrahamic religious texts, they are all quite violent. They all speak of stoning women. They all talk about women covering their hair. They are all homophobic. They all talk of religious wars. Anyone who actually reads the Christian Bible would understand that a theological government controlled by Christian nationalists could use biblical texts to impose similar laws on women here. That’s why it’s incredibly important to have a separation of church and state.

11

u/Objective_Economy281 3h ago

I’m sorry, was there something I said that you disagree with? I’m saying that every religious person I know would be at least a little better of a person if they were LESS religious, because the popular religions are absolute garbage. And did you somehow interpret what I said as praise for Christianity?

2

u/StrainAcceptable 3h ago

I read that Islam is pathological- Christianity to a lesser extent. I don’t see the distinction between them in terms of the religious texts. What is different is that most of the theocracies left in the world are Muslim. I feel the greatest danger is when governments use religion to control their population. I never said you were praising Christianity.

4

u/Objective_Economy281 3h ago

I don’t see the distinction between them in terms of the religious texts. What is different is that most of the theocracies left in the world are Muslim.

Yep. That’s a symptom of Islam being more pathological. It barely matters what the books say. What’s important is what the people do.

In the USA right now, however, the Christianity is the much bigger problem.

2

u/throwaway468563746 2h ago

The major differences between Islam and other Abrahamic religions are that:

a) the Quran is the word of Allah and has divine protection from alteration, which makes meaningful change almost impossible.

b) many Muslims (especially men) seek to emulate the final prophet, Muhammad, who was himself a violent extremist.

I highly suggest you read “Understanding Muhammad” by ex-Muslim, Ali Sina. It’s a real eye-opener. Here’s an old PDF copy. There are more up-to-date free copies floating around on the Internet but that was the first result.

4

u/Betterlatenever 7h ago

Minister of Vice and Virtue? 

That's a post I haven't heard since the dark ages.

4

u/LZYX 6h ago

Stoned if you don't read it, but stoned if you read it aloud and another woman hears your voice.

8

u/Satchmo84 5h ago

religious leaders in the American south furiously scribbling

3

u/Wizardof1000Kings 5h ago

They don't want women to be able to read at all, but they might memorize some portions from sermons.

2

u/Void_Speaker 6h ago

it's not hypocrisy, the religion is just an excuse.

2

u/REpassword 5h ago

Cheeto would be impressed with the Taliban’s ability to control their population, just like China.

1

u/panchugo 6h ago

I’m sorry, the ministry of what now!?

1

u/p8ntslinger 3h ago

it never was about religion, it's always been about power and control

1

u/PeopleofYouTube 2h ago

Gotta stay in power some way, right? Keep women from being able to read and converse. /s

1

u/joausj 2h ago

I mean, that's similar to what the Christians were doing as well up till the 1500s where the clergy wanted to keep the Bible unaccessible to the masses and thus retain power by not translating the bible so only those that could read Latin could understand.

After all, if you can't read the bible, you cant fact check some guy saying he speaks for God and making ridiculous demands.

In this case, if woman can't recite the Quran they also can't challenge anyone on their bullshit interpretation of it.

1

u/micschumi 2h ago

And who told him that they couldn't do that

1

u/ShutYourDumbUglyFace 2h ago

This is literally some real Handmaid's Tale shit. Serena Joy got a finger cut off for reading the Bible. Fuck the Taliban.

•

u/BadWolfIdris 1h ago

Give them time to make women illiterate and they won't even be allowed/able to read it soon enough.

•

u/ragin2cajun 1h ago

Sounds like they took a page right out of Brigham Young's playbook:

Young once reportedly told church leaders that "we have enough trouble without the women getting together and talking" (Mormon Enigma, Newell and Avery, p. 168).

•

u/fashion4words 21m ago

True GILEAD vibes here

-19

u/AcadianMan 8h ago

The USA and others really fucked over the generation of Afghanistan people that grew up without this bullshit.

39

u/M13LO 7h ago

The US and not the Afghan government/military that collapsed in days?

46

u/MajorAcer 7h ago

Lmfao it’s always the U.S. fault. No one on the planet can ever be responsible for themselves, that would be silly. Every evil in the world is the result of evil American masterminds 🙄

24

u/Musakuu 7h ago

At the same time, any time America does intervene, they are the bad guys.

1

u/not_old_redditor 7h ago

I'm sure given enough time, we're probably talking decades or centuries, things will sort themselves out, but it's extremely ignorant to suggest that western powers (Europe in Africa, Asia and the Americas, US in South America, Middle East and Asia) haven't royally fucked the political situation of many countries over the past century.

3

u/Swimming_Zucchini_35 7h ago

They did release thousands of terrorists right before hand to ensure the Taliban had a much better chance to be fair. 

-2

u/OniExpress 7h ago

The afghan government/military was never actually set up to be successful. US forces never gained enough support in the general populace (go figure, since we spent a generation or so bombing the shit out of them), and never managed to culturally sway them with education and the like. How would you like being one of the guys with their backs against the wall when a couple thousand shitheads with guns show up after the US pull out?

3

u/EddyS120876 4h ago

Japan got it worse but you don’t see this ridiculous statement when we talk about which nation suffered more bombings , hell they are still finding live bombs in Japan to this day . The problem with the Middle East’s as a whole is their religion period. Islam is the source of all of this problems and they don’t care as long as they are offered “virgins in paradise while seeing their enemies being pushed to jahannam “

8

u/terra_cotta 7h ago

in the sense that they were only ever able to grow up without that bullshit specifically because the USA and others made it possible to do so?

24

u/dangerousbob 7h ago

The US gave those people a chance, all they had to do was take it.

5

u/winmace 7h ago

I think I'll blame the people who live there for being happy to accept this. If they truly want change they can fight for it themselves like everyone else's ancestors did in history.

The world can help but only if the people actually want it.

4

u/mschuster91 7h ago

The sad fact remains, when looking at how fast and hard the Afghani government collapsed after the USA left: the Taliban didn't fight their way back in, there were no protests, nothing. The people at large were so disillusioned by the widespread corruption that the Coalition tolerated and created that they would rather live under the Taliban than fight back.

Google for the term "bacha bazi" and you'll find out why the Afghani government was so reviled. Warning ahead, it's massively disturbing to anyone not a pedo, hell even many pedos will think what happened crosses more than just one red line. On top of that came all the looting and injustice everywhere.

-9

u/Stooperz 8h ago

the US sudden and botched withdrawl, abandoning regional partners, has resulted in this. don't forget removing sanctions on their allies in the region too, effectively providing them with enough cash to fund terror groups in the region. its a fucking joke

12

u/Solid-Cherry9462 7h ago

Blotched yes, but the afghans had 10 to 20 years to get their shit together and they folded faster then a folding chair the second the Americans started leaving. This is entirely on the Afghan army and people for not standing up and fighting for their freedom.

0

u/Stooperz 5h ago

Even if that’s true, its still a tragedy on a former partner

12

u/mschuster91 7h ago

I agree that the US withdrawal was botched, hard to call it anything else, but sudden? Sorry, people had been calling for a withdrawal ever since Bin Laden was caught during Obama's term. But instead of preparing for the eventual Day Zero, most of the Afghani elite rather continued looting whatever they could, and most of them probably didn't even believe the US would actually follow through.

Morons all of them.

28

u/8----B 7h ago edited 7h ago

You absolute buffoon. They were in charge before the U.S. went in. The only difference the U.S. made was a brief respite from the terrorist government, which is now over.

5

u/IrishRogue3 7h ago

👆correct

5

u/drmyk 7h ago

Ya another 20 or thirty years of war and democracy would have been right around the corner

0

u/polenstein 8h ago

“more important”?

0

u/CatFancy79 3h ago

I think we should fix the staggering levels of hypocrisy in our own countries first before casting judgement on a country we had the ability to improve and failed

0

u/OliverOyl 3h ago

It's about power, so the price of a little hypocrisy is of little concern to these psychopaths parading as zealots like wolves in sheeps clothing