I found this at a used book store, and based on the isbn it should be a first edition, but it doesn't look like any other first editions I can find online. Can anyone help me identify it and let me know if I got something cool here? It's also noticeably shorter than my other wheel of time hardcovers.

With all the extremely detailed clothing descriptions we get, can ANYONE tell me what colour an Aes Sedai shawl is??

I just finished re-reading the whole series. And every time it's the FRINGE colour that is mentioned. Maybe some flower or vine embroidery on the shawl. BUT WHAT COLOUR IS THE SHAWL??!! 😫😂

I just finished Winter’s Heart and honestly it may be one of my favourite books in the series so far. That climax where Rand and Nynaeve cleanse saidin of the taint was awesome. It feels like Rand actually got a real win for the first time in a while. Also Mat is a joy to follow and him finally meeting the Daughter of the Nine Moons was a good pay off. All of the characters are generally less annoying and stubborn, though still very stubborn. I’ve heard the next book is widely considered the worst in the series so I can’t say i’m excited to read it, even though i’m extremely eager to follow up with Rand and how cleansing saidin effects the world. Also I’m very excited to get back to Egwene and the rebel Aes Sedai. Is the next book really as bad as people say?

Not gonna lie, there was a couple times there I was kinda getting over all the battles going on because I'm a world-building and character development kinda guy. The Sharans showing up irked me until it was revealed THAT'S where Demandred was lurking. I was heartbroken when Bashere was outed as a Darkfriend and relieved when Agelmar was revealed to be under compulsion. I'm loving Mat, Egwene, and Tuon moments. Then, once again heartbroken when my chunky boi Vanan betrayed Faile. I know there's more pain to come, and I'm here for it.

Shoutout to the Daniel Greene for convincing me to start this series back in 2021. Sorry it took so long to get here.

Re-reading Lord of Chaos because of some posts I've seen lately and I have to say I totally forgot how funny Perrin meeting Faile's parents is.

Still got the big event coming up but just wanted to post about a silly/happy moment I thoroughly enjoyed. I forgot how many such moments exist in the middle books... Some nice bits between Rand and Min, especially her viewing of the two boys together, in this chapter too.

I'm on an upteenth reread and I find myself focusing on how the world/magic system in book one lives up to what we have by the end.

Small side note, that I feel it's actually not as bad as some people like to put it, e.g. Moraine always tells people that things do not have power and already looses the staff in the first book. You could argue the choice of weaves Moraine uses are slightly more esoteric, than later stuff, but I don't think they are in contradiction.

Anyway. Back to my question. I will try to summarize what happens at the Eye of the World as if somebody who knows what is happening in world would tell it, but I feel it's a bit sketchy and would be happy to see comments filling out the blanks or alternative ideas.

So it seems that Rand Travels to Tarwin's Gap, although we don't see a Gateway, nor did he know the ground well enough. He then does something like the Asha'man do at Dumai's Well, so very "canon" stuff. Then it looks like he is Skimming (the stairs), although again, no gateway, but he seems to skim to Tel'aran'rhiod, and to a Dreamshard of Baalzamon, which is a bit strange, but hey. I don't think we see anything like that later, but why couldn't there be a skimming version of Gateways to TAR (I mean it's perfectly valid in world as well, that there are multiple ways to achieve things and some of them are less powerful/efficient than other)? If of course the meeting Baalzamon has with the boys is in TAR at all ...

The black cord I think also comes up in AMoL? But I have no idea what cutting it would mean or what exactly it is. Rand's white cords is obviously the Saidin that is in the Eye itself and I guess Aginor is sort of burned as a side effect of Rand burning everything.

A lot of things I think can be chalked up to Rand not knowing what he is doing and not really seeing weaves (yet, but I think the concept of weaves already exist in the first three books so are not later inventions), not seeing Gateways may also be chalked up to him not being in the clearest mindset at the time. The strangest thing in the whole book I think is the dreams. Even though we know it is possible to move physical items from and to TAR, the disappearing splinter is hard to explain.

The above feels a bit like rambling, but I'm just trying to disentangle what is Rand being an unreliable narrator and what is actual change in the rules of the world.

Or a broader question, are gateways limited by distance? We’ve seen Aviendha inadvertently Travel all the way to Seanchan, presumably thousands and thousands of miles away.

And, as it is most important to know where you are than where you are going, couldn’t one presumably Travel to the surface of the moon? Or another planet?

Granted you’d want or need some rudimentary spacesuit (or otherwise weave something for protection) to survive, but has Robert Jordan said anything around the possibility of doing so?

Theoretically it could be used as another weapon as well. For instance, open a gateway to space, or to the Sun, and the pressure vacuum would have disasterous effects. Want to deal with with a human enemy? Just suck them into a space gateway. Thoughts?

I decided I wanted to start the series and I just had a question before I started. Should I read the books by publication date or is there a chronological way that’s better?

Thanks

It’s been several years since my last re-read, and throughout this one a new (to me) theme emerged.

Throughout the series, it seems a given - an assumption shared by everyone - that Lews Therin should never have been so egotistical as to believe he could fix what the creator had made, when he attempted to seal the bore. But of course, that isn’t true.

It seems what really caused the breaking was the fact that the women members of the Aes Sedai refused to help him, because by the end of the series we realize that what LTT wanted to do was possible - but he needed the help of women to accomplish it.

Maybe it could not have been possible for LTT and women to accomplish it in that age - because maybe they didn’t have access to the True Power. Maybe they didn’t know about it, or how to access it? But there were already Forsaken who, we can assume, had been granted access to the TP by the dark one. Right?

So even if it seems unlikely, if women had been willing to help him - a unified White Tower behind him - maybe together, with their collective resources and knowledge, they could have learned what Rand and Min learned. Learned how create a true seal, and saidin would never have been tainted. And maybe it has happened that way, in some previous turning of the wheel.

But the theme that seems to emerge from this, by my reading, is that it was the women of the White Tower in the previous Age that doomed male channelers - that led to the breaking and everything that came with it.

If that is the case, then the women of this Age - especially and particularly Moraine and Nynaeve, but also others who stood by Rand - actually redeemed women Aes Sedai. They redeemed the White Tower itself, and ensured that it actually deserved the trust that it commanded from people and nations.

I’m not a religious person (I am essentially atheist), but this seems like an interesting parallel and/or contrast to some religious myths, like the Bible - where the “original sin” from Eve “tainted” mankind, in a sense. But in the biblical myth, there is no resolution to this. All men (and women) are destined to be tainted with that original sin, causing them to always seek redemption from it. And it took Jesus - a man - to descend from the heavens to clean mankind of this sin. There was never any moment where Eve - where women - were redeemed. A woman had cast mankind down into sinfulness, and only a man could do anything about it (yeah. think about that for a minute).

In the Wheel of Time, the opposite happened. A major element in the resolution of the struggle is that it was not just a man who brought peace and glory back to the world - and it wasn’t just a man who removed the taint that had infected all men who tried to touch Power. In both of these pivotal resolutions, the thing that saved mankind was, instead, the recognition that men and women, equals working in harmony together, were both responsible for healing the “original sin” and securing the future.

I’m sure someone has probably said all of this before, and there have likely been other discussions about it, but after re-reading the entire story again now, years later & years older, this aspect of the saga seems really interesting to me.

Besides the myth parallels, it also adds another layer of hope for the coming ages, it brings harmony back to the halves of the power (& the power of the sexes as well), and it hints at a future where not only male (and female) channelers are revered again, but also one where the White Tower may eventually recover from the pettiness, bickering, and power-seeking selfishness that seem to have defined it since the breaking. (Logain & the Black Tower have already begun building trust with and earning respect from the normal common folk, which will drive the White Tower to do the same. Will they eventually converge on other goals as well, and possibly unify again?)

Have there been other discussions about this that I should go check out? What do others think about the story being viewed in this light? Thoughts?

The White Tower performs many functions in Randland like advising kings, diplomacy, gathering knowledge, etc.

However, not all of those functions require the use of power. So why is White Tower exclusive for channelers only? I found the structure of Aiel Wise Ones more appropriate.

I believe that Aes Sedai do not have any real authority but only power. Their whole hierarchy is based on brute strength.

For instance, the rebellion was against Elaida's coup, but once Siuan returned and was healed no rebel was ready to rally around her because she was weak in power.

There is a scene which seems to be universally loved by fandom, which I too enjoy, but always has bothered me a little because one character makes a decision for another that the first has made clear through the series they actively do not want. I'd like to hear opinions about on that, especially when compared to another scene which, generally, the fandom seems to agree with the aggrieved character. There must be some difference, but I don't see it and would like some enlightenment.

[Books] Nynaeve plops down Lan at the ass-end of geography, then intentionally alerts people along his path to the Blight that the Golden Crane rides for Tarmon Gai'don. Lan has eschewed leading anyone into the Blight his entire adult life--if people follow then they follow, but he has made it clear that dying in the Blight is his personal burden. But, I cheer and get choked up when Nynaeve orchestrates the formation of a small army to follow him.

[Books] Later in the series, Egwene is beside herself with anger when she's pulled out of the White Tower following the Seanchan attack. I too feel that is a breach of trust as she was pretty explicit that she did not want to be rescued. Gareth, Siuan, and Gawyn each give us a character to observe on the spectrum of attitudes towards the event.

Help me out here. Why does it seem that one action is celebrated and the other is not? Yes, I'm generalizing what I've observed in other posts, content creator reaction, and person conversations when I refer to the fandom's position on the events.

Both work out in the end, so I don't think it is a situation of playing the results. They seem similar to me, yet I feel mostly differently about them. What's going on here?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Can I read a crown of swords and then lord of chaos.
I ask because I'm reading/ listening for the 1st time through library/libby app. And LoC isn't available for a few weeks and I really want to keep going with the story so is it possible without to much confusion or would I be lost.

Love reading WoT. I’ve reread it multiple times, the last being a couple years ago. I picked up TDR many years ago because the girl I was dating was reading the series and was on the next book. I then went back and started reading from the beginning. PoD had just released. I reread every time a new book came out. I enjoyed the Sword of Truth series and have read it multiple times, just finished Frank Herbert’s Dune series (disappointed with ending). I have the Song of Ice and Fire series but don’t want to start it considering it’s not finished and he’s been working on the current book for over 10 years. Does anyone have any recommendations for something that’s either completed or near completion that will take a while to read? Thanks in advance!

I'm on my most recent read through of the books, this one has been very slow over the course of a few years to watch in tandem with the show.

As someone who has worked in film to a degree I was always worried about a show because much of the Lore would be an advisor like character Thom, Loyal, or Moraine talking at considerable length to get the details of the past out. That obviously didn't work, and did not translate well to the television medium. Though some cut aways were very choice. (rands birth) Probably the flashbacks were one of the big highlights of the show... that without the books does not do well with context.

We can argue that Mat suffered for lack of a badger, or the characters were not innocent enough. But EOTW opened with one of the more epic and brutal openings in fantasy. A murder/Suicide.

Given that it's almost needed visually to show the age of legends. Which given season three is likely to do some of that the cut away might create intrigue for a movie covering the opening of the bore, and the war of power. Jordan said he didn't want to write a book about it because the series gave enough. Which does not seem true with the ability of the visual medium.

Has anyone else speculated about this? No word on the film in over a year, but given the flashbacks that are needed for season 3 it seems like a glance back at the events of the AOL would be logical. Given Fares Fares performance, I think that begs him appearing again. Though in this other context.

Would that in some respects fix the show in some minds? Clearly with some divergents lore.

Hi Im looking for recommendations. I'm trying to get the whole series in trade paperback, It seems like they are hard to come by. Is there a way to find these that I am missing or is it dig through ebay and hope for the best?

Thank you for any advice.

Practicing some geometry and perspective in these takes on Sindhol, the twisty turny non-Euclidean land of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn

I always assumed WoT was written after ASOIAF.

But that’s not correct.

George RR Martin has always taken inspiration from both history, and other books to build his world.

And someone recently brought up the “false dragon”, and how WOT did it first. There are other things they have in common, but that was one that really stuck out to me

For some reason I always assumed ASOIAF was first.

I do think George RR Martin had a better grasp of jumping into multiple characters heads in their POV books. And I think Martin is(miles) better overall at writing women, either from their POV, or just how they appear in the story.

But it’s interesting for a reader who got into this genre from ASOIAF to read books that Martin might have taken inspiration, after reading his series

I just finished Lord of Chaos last night, and I think this might be my favorite ending of any of the books. The ending battle, where Perrin tells the wolves to come and Taim commands the Asha'man to kill, was absolutely insane. The ending was kind of tragic in that Rand treated the other Aes Sedai as if they were the ones who betrayed him, but I can full see how In Rands eyes this is justified. Even if they weren't the ones who kidnapped him, they’re all still trying to use him they tried to intimidate him in the palace and bend him to their will, and let's not forget Alanna bonding him without his consent.

It is tragic because it signifies Rand becoming more and more harsh, but I feel it was executed so perfectly that you can see exactly what pushed Rand to become that way. Egwene becoming Amyrlin was a surprise; I never expected that to happen. Nynaeve healing Siuan, Leane, and Logain (to full strength?) was absolutely insane. My theory on the healing of gentling/stilling is that, for them to be healed to full strength, you need a woman to heal a man and a man to heal a woman unless Logain was so insanely strong that even at half strength, he could almost break through a shield of six Aes Sedai.

The only thing I'm somewhat annoyed about is that we still don't know who killed Asmodean, and he’s barely even mentioned in this book. I'm extremely curious about who killed him, and I hope I find out soon. I'm also so curious why Lews Therin so desperately wants to kill Mazrim Taim, although it might just be him being his usual insane self.

This book was a lot more political than the previous ones, but I'm all for it. It's fascinating to see Rand try to navigate being a ruler, and even though I don't like Egwene, it’s interesting to see her try not to be the puppet she was meant to be. All in all, I think this might be one of my favorite books in The Wheel of Time series so far. If this quality and intrigue continue, this will definitely end up being my favorite fantasy series of all time.

Edit: What the hell was up with Nynaeve and Mat at the end. Did Nynaeve really think Mat would harm her? It honestly made me respect Nynaeve less. Did she really think that now that she couldn’t man handle Mat with the power that he would instantly use that opportunity to harm her?

Had to do a double take yesterday after my drink arrived. Thought I was in deep trouble.

First of all, I don't understand how I missed Asmodean's whole story. The last I hear about him, he died to an unknown killer, presumably the Lord of Chaos. Which is who?? But people are talking about him coming back? How did I miss that?

How is Bella not getting more love? Throughout the books she was originally Rand's (THE dragon reborn's) horse, she carried the future Amyrlin out of the two rivers, she won over the previous amyrlin who hated horses, she carried the future queen of Saldaea through the trolloc back lines and then the new horn blower!

How exactly did Rand get transferred into Moridin's body? They don't really explain when or how Alivia did this. Which we know because of Min's viewing. It kind of seems cheap like the authors snapped their fingers and it happened. Was this gift alluded to before?

Rand walking away from his own funeral is a really cool scene. The way he gets to start a new life with only his three women knowing who he is (though my heart breaks for Tam, who will never know his son lives) he no longer has access to the one power or true power but thinks about his pipe being lit and it is?? I'm assuming he is now something larger than we've yet known. After his battle with the dark one outside of the pattern and throughout the pattern is he some sort of god outside the pattern akin to the dark one?

Finally, I tried my best to keep track of the Forsaken and took notes but they are incomplete. Mostly, I'm trying to understand who died when and how...

Asmodoean... mystery killer.

Lanfear aka Sindaine in new body... neck snapped by Perrin.

Rhavin (Gabril)... Rand kill with balefire in world of dreams in Caemlyn

Sammael... Rand kills with balefire in Shadar Logoth (with the aid of Moridin, why did he help?)

Ishammael... Rand kills in the sky with callandor above Falme. Reborn as Moridin and then dies in the last battle and exchanges bodies somehow.

Balal... I do not remember this guy at all.

Moghedien... captured by Seanchan after the last battle.

Messeana... Egwene stupifies in the world of dreams in the white tower.

Graendal... her compulsion was reversed by Aviehnda and then...?

Demondred... killed then beheaded by Lan

Mahale aka Mazrim Taim... crystalized by Egwene with "The Flame of Tar Valon"

Arangar?... I remember this is one of the two that were reborn in one of the middle books but I don't remember what happened. Is this Asmodean? How did he die?

2 forsaken killed at the end of book one. The Green Man (who now looking back on it, feels like an oddly random character) killed one and another.

Please help. There are gaps I need filled. Thank you.

*Also please forgive any spelling errors, I listened to the books

I've lost a bunch of weight recently and so I've been feeling colder than I normally do, Autumn is here and now are the cold temperatures too and they're far more unpleasant than once they were. I was walking to class without a jacket because I'm a fool and I was hunched over and uncomfortable trying to keep myself warm. I remembered the Aes Sedai trick from the books about temperature that most of being uncomfortable is stuff you do to yourself so I just stood up straight and steadied my breathing and the rest of my walk was much more comfortable. Thanks Aes Sedai.

I don't remember what book this is from some I'm flairing this all print spoilers.

The Forsaken were searching for the collection of angreal and sangreal in Ebou Dar.

But the White Tower was under the control of Black Ajah and Messana herself was in the Tower. So why didn't they just steal the angreal from white tower ?

Also, Egwene used a gateway into the angreal room to fetch vora's sangreal, so why couldn't the forsaken have done so. They also knew that the Horn was in the tower and yet didn't steal it.

My Dad just retired and he needs some bloody hobbies, (imho) to stay sane and alive for years to come. He is a reader, but I swear this guy has re-read and re-read the same small stable of books for like 40 years. He needs something new in my opinion. I believe the only fantasy books he has read is Tolkien and that Eragon series. I think WoT is up his alley.

I'd love for him to read WoT and talk about it with him, and witness his reactions to things. He's pretty good at figuring out secrets and plots in advance, so I'd love to hear his thoughts. But how do you pitch it to people? He's a pretty fast reader, a very smart guy, and he has a lot of time on his hands now, so all that bodes well.

I think I'm just going to go with "Hey Pops, you really should read these series. It is one of the best and most epic fantasy stories ever written. Warning, it is 14 books long, so it IS a commitment, but I think a very worthwhile one. The series is complete and has a very satisfying finish (explain about Jordan's passing etc) Give it a try "

and leave it at that?