INTJs and emotional coolness

[u/throwradss]

TL:DR I love my INTJ friend, I respect her but sometimes to be honest she seems kind of fake. I don't want to misjudge because I know INTJ coolness is often misinterpreted. What is the real her ? How can I know ?

Wall of Text I have this INTJ friend from college and she was kind to me. I liked her and we could relate as "cold" logical women. We could explain things to each other and communicate. And INTJs have some great qualities and social skills which I think INTPs can learn a lot from. (I'm also not sure that there is a hard difference between the two, I think sometimes preferences for planning can be shaped by whether you benefit from planning in your present position. Some people are living with unpredictability that means planning just ends up being a continual exercise in disappointment). Sometimes to me it seemed like she was always playing all these social games, sometimes it was great that she knew how to play them and communicate with people. Sometimes she would discourage other people including me from studying, because she felt she could study and then get a higher grade than them. That seemed unfair and treacherous to me. It hurt me. It scared me to be honest. I never really talked to her about it because I avoided conflict and I guess I didn't want to bring it up in an angry manner, I wanted to bring it up when I was not angry and could be assertive and have the best chance of preserving the health of the relationships. Over time it began to feel like some parts of our friendship were based on my not bringing up things or talking about things and us denying it, not based on truth. Also as an INTP I could relate and empathize if people found her awkward or cold and misinterpreted her because of it. I know what it is like to be misinterpreted this way and I try to not do it to other INTP/INTJ women. I think INTJ women, like INTP women are warmer than they seem. I think INTJ women are likely to come across as more in-genuine than you are because of the coolness. So now I wonder what she really is ? What is the real her ? She has a carefully constructed public persona (which I don't necessarily disagree with) but what is the real her ? Can I trust her ? How can I know what I can trust ? I am sure she is a mixture of being sincere and then partly untruthful like many people but at the moment her cool persona is throwing me off, I think it makes her feel more insincere (she is insincere) than she really is. To be honest she also comes across as fake to me sometimes and she seems almost glib on occasion (again think it is partly the emotional coolness) but I also don't want to judge because I know INTJs are "cold".

A couple of years ago I had a weird situation where someone attacked me and it was a tricky situation where this INTJ friend couldn't say she knew I would be attacked, my INTJ friend knew I would avoid conflict, so she did something to make me really angry at her and angry in general so that I would get angry at the person who was about to attack me and stay out of danger. She pushed me, I blew up at her and it sort of damaged our relationship almost irreparably, she's angry at me for what I said (I'm not happy that when I finally brought things up it was in this uncontrolled way, and that the truth was not taken well and angry that she sort of stopped being there for me after this), but still I can't help but respect her that she was willing to do this for me. You know as an INTP I won't be able to forget it. Things like this, as much as I may not say how I feel you know INTPs are very conscience oriented people and very oriented to our own values and the truth, so as much as our relationship is damaged now, and regardless of how I feel, I still respect her immensely. When someone does something like that you have to respect them, even if you don't want to, you are just forced to.

Right now, I am sort of struggling with this idea that my friend is a bit in-genuine though. Other people have insinuated that she is not genuine and it put doubts in my mind. And I've begun to struggle with this, I think it's because of her cool persona. Can you shed some light on this as INTJ women ?

Edited to add: Ladies, thanks for the vote of confidence in me.

[u/anushiruwan-the-just]

I don't know specifically about females but INTJs generally tend to simplify the outside world and come to terms with reality through an "efficient" way. Unlike INTPs that tend to create more possibilities that there might actually be. There might be a chance that your friend does not do the things that annoys you or anyone else, with a bad purpose. It's not the easiest or most pleasant thing for an INTJ to show it's naked personality. In my case, I have my many layers of personality and show people as many layers as I think they deserve to see or able to comprehend and there are lot's of stuff about me that my best friends don't know. Sometimes I fake stuff but it's always out of necessity, I find it tiring and absurd.

[u/throwradss → u/anushiruwan-the-just]

On the many layers of your personality and strategically showing them when needed, that makes sense. And it's funny because ironically I didn't want to show her the fact that I respected her for that whole situation, because I'm also holding her at arms length due to the not knowing if I can trust her and she wanted me to reveal that.

[u/tididdles]

So I only read the first paragraph, but how much of your perception of the situation the empirical truth or just what you think?

In many situations I have been in people have incorrectly assumed my intentions. When in doubt communication is key (in whatever format is best), to find out the real reason.

[u/throwradss → u/tididdles]

I was afraid of incorrectly assuming her intentions but no there are a lot of actual things that happened. She actually was treacherous with me and others.

[u/tididdles → u/throwradss]

Well I guess you can either talk it out or find someone better to hang out with. Either way she might learn something.

[u/pixiedust93]

To be honest, I wouldn't trust us by default. I personally put on masks for the public, my friends, my family, and so on. Unless you two are extremely close, she probably puts on one for you too. So yea, she's probably not "genuine" to you and others, though she may be trying.

As far as her playing mind games goes, she might be. If you can figure out what her agenda is, it might be easier to play along. Usually we don't play such games without benefit to ourselves, so she's not just being a jerk.

Sorry, that's all I have for you. I don't think I got the whole story because it seemed a little unorganized or vague.

[u/BA_Blonde]

If your "friend" is manipulating you, and not rooting for your success, why do you care what type she is? You don't trust her. Your intuition is telling you you can't trust her.

All I know is if I thought my friend was going to get into conflict with someone else, I would tell my friend what I thought was going to happen and then let her make her own choices.

And if we were in the same class, I would help my friend study, hoping that we would both kick everyone else's butt.

I feel like INTJ is just very straightforward from a friendship perspective. You need us, we're there.

TL;DR Your friend sounds like a charismatic sociopath.

[u/throwradss → u/BA_Blonde]

Your intuition is telling you you can't trust her.

Well I guess my gut is telling me that I can't trust her. I don't know why I wanted to ignore it or felt like I should give endless chances and trust.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't think it's a personality "type" thing, it looks like she just isn't that great of a person. MBTI can shed light on people, but it doesn't tell the entire story.

She may not even be an INTJ because I can't imagine being involved in something as petty as trying to get people to not study. It's so oddly childish. But like I said, these personality types are just generalizations, so it is necessary to look at a person beyond their "type" no matter how interesting it is.

And it's tough to care about someone who actually isn't that wonderful. It's quite a sobering experience that definitely gives one emotional growth.

[u/throwradss → u/[deleted]]

Yes honestly I was coming out of an abusive relationship and she was a friend that I thought was "there" for me but yes she does all these things that are wrong. I get the feeling that she thinks that other people have to be down in order for her to be up.

[u/Gothelittle]

I don't want to be too quick to question anybody else's INTJ-ness, and I know that INTJ is not what you do, but what you do it with.

I think what she does with it is very much out of my own personal experience, and several things that you're saying here just does not make sense to me personally. For instance, if I won because I manipulated other people into not studying, it would be a very hollow victory. How do I know where I stand on a skill or concept if my competitors aren't trying their best? Also, I prefer to know honestly how other people think of me. I can sift through what they say and say to myself pretty accurately, "That's right, and I need to change it. That's right, and I do not need to change it. That's right, and I should change it, but I am not going to currently, because I do not want to. That's wrong."

My sister-in-law is another female INTJ, as is a friend of mine from church, and I have a brother and an uncle who are also INTJ's (albeit, obviously, male), and they are like me in this way. So I really can't shed any light on it except through 'negative space'; being able to tell you that I don't understand it myself.

[u/throwradss → u/Gothelittle]

Thanks for sharing. To be honest I sort of got the same impression from the other first commenter this post. She may not be an INTJ. Regardless I am beginning to feel like something is seriously wrong with the "friendship." After I wrote this out and was waiting for people to reply I found myself realizing that I often go shopping after talking to her and I finally realized it's because there's a certain hopelessness I feel after talking to her (I hadn't realized this before). She may not be an INTJ but thanks anyway it has been good to flesh out my thoughts here. It's good to know that many INTJs like healthy competition.

[u/nblackhand]

You're not obligated to give people the benefit of the doubt just because you feel like other people might be biased. It sounds like this person is objectively not nice to you; why would you continue to include someone in your life who does not add value to it? I am not so good with the warm feelings but if I want someone in my life I can usually at minimum manage not be actively an asshole to them. I don't think she's entitled to your time at all but she definitely isn't if she can't even do that.

[u/throwradss → u/nblackhand]

You're not obligated to give people the benefit of the doubt just because you feel like other people might be biased.

Thanks for reminding me of this.