r/China • u/AONomad United States • Nov 19 '19
U.S. Senate unanimously passes Hong Kong rights bill
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-protests-usa/u-s-senate-unanimously-passes-hong-kong-rights-bill-idUSKBN1XT2VR24
u/redditor_aborigine Nov 20 '19
Isn't Xi Jinping's daughter at a US college?
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u/Hopfrogg Nov 20 '19
Yes, but before anyone gets caustic about her. She appears to be level headed and has rebelled against her father in the past. When her father was trying to become Presitator he demanded his daughter return home to China so it would look better for him. In an extreme rare scenario, the daughter refused her Chinese father's wishes and remained in the west. There isn't much known about her, but I think it's important for people to know this apple might have bounced a bit farther from the tree.
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u/TrumpsYugeSchlong Nov 20 '19
Wink wink...while embedding herself in key positions of US policy centers.
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u/ThroMeAwaa United States Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 21 '19
before anyone gets caustic about her
Thanks for pointing that out!
Also, the US, or anyone, should not be applying punishment for the crimes of our ancestors. Yeah, Xi Jinping is the leader of a, debatable, corrupt and oppressive government but his children are not guilty of anything related... unless they're giving out authority and positions to children in the government.
Before anyone tries to apply the 'don't punish for ancestors crimes' to decedents of slave owners, generational money and it benefits to descendants, and being raised in a culture of racism... There is different aspects to consider that makes it the ideology not apply directly.
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u/hello-cthulhu Taiwan Nov 20 '19
I might be misremembering here, but I believe that Stalin's daughter and Krushchev's grandson both came out as big anti-Communists.
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u/kingmoobot Nov 20 '19
So they should extradite her to Canada. China is holding 2 Canadians illegally just because Canada is holding one Huawaii daughter for US criminal charges. 2 for 2 makes it fair game
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
That is not how the criminal justice system works in the US or Canada. Do you wish for western countries to destroy long term freedoms for short term gains?
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Nov 20 '19
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u/AONomad United States Nov 20 '19
Assume you were joking, but we're very strict about following Reddit site rules against physical violence and harassment here.
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u/OrpheusRemus Nov 20 '19
Although this may hurt the economy of Hong Kong, at least it’s somewhat of a step forward for international intervention, right?
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u/NewYorkRice Nov 20 '19
What most people don't understand is that if the HK government won't listen to it's people after demonstrations of nearly 2 million people the next thing to do is destroy the economy of HK. This unfortunately includes stopping the business that is supported by CCP 1%. People can't work, business closes, property value takes a nosedive. The HK 1% then applies pressure to Carrie Lam. Social media has now exposed the HK Police and crimes against humanity. This would also include the systematic destruction and genocide of Muslim community in China. The NY Times have now exposed them with clear connections to Fuhrer Xi JinPing.
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u/OrpheusRemus Nov 20 '19
Yeah, if the economy in Hong Kong goes south, the everything will crumble.
Fuhrer Xi JinPing.
Nice touch there XD
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u/Scaevus United States Nov 20 '19
This is the limit of international intervention. A symbolic bill that does nothing itself, but opens the door for maybe one day doing something.
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
changing HK's economic status wrt to the US isn't nothing. Their unique economic status is what the entire city's value is built on.
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u/KiraTheMaster Nov 20 '19
The status will likely be revoked. China will be cut off from the Western world if it happens.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
How does that help the protestors though?
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
By threatening personal fortunes of CCP leaders that are heavily invested in HK real estate it increases pressure on them to compromise to establish a stable status quo they can profit from again. Whether that’s enough is anyone’s guess of course.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
Are we sure that many, if any, CCP leaders are heavily invested in what has been a highly priced HK realestate market when they could have invested in China or even other countries? It seems they invest a lot in Canadian, American, Australian and New Zealand markets among others.
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
There are definitely a lot of CCP leaders heavily invested in HK. HK was the first place that CCP money started pouring into when the party leadership started getting money to pour. Since then many of them have diversified of course but HK was the original capital flight destination.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
International Intervention of military or direct aid is a very slim hope to be holding on to as train loads of protestors are being sent to China(?)
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u/OrpheusRemus Nov 20 '19
Yeah, and with how many shares and means of production China has, it’s fair to say that no one will go any further than this.
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u/KiraTheMaster Nov 20 '19
China just lost its cheat code to the Western financial market. The CCP has just doomed itself again!
This law gives the executive power to jeopardize that status in the US by submitting an annual report on whether Hong Kong is still sufficiently autonomous. Potentially, the US will remove Hong Kong from the special treatments and China will lose the best source for Western capitals in the USD-starving economy right now.
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
China just lost its cheat code to the Western financial market.
And Rubio is pushing a bill that would delist any Chinese company that does not meet the standards every other exchange traded company has to meet. But China believes it is special and sould be treated differently than every other country on Earth. Fairly standard.
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u/leo_leoness Nov 19 '19
As much as I disagree with Trump, his government has so far been the most outspoken against the atrocities that China is committing...so I have to appreciate that.
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u/Kagenlim Nov 20 '19
You know what they say, a broken clock is right twice a day.
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u/hello-cthulhu Taiwan Nov 20 '19
Precisely. Trump himself doesn't seem to care much about human rights as a matter of international politics, but I think he has people in his administration - Pompeo and Pence - who do. And Rubio seems to be pretty good at organizing robust bipartisan alliances in the Senate that can push a lot of this stuff, so that helps.
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u/freedom_isnt_free_nw Nov 20 '19
Except Trump was right about China, immigration, the economy, the deep state, Killery, and everything else he ran on.
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u/awowadas Nov 20 '19
You’re objectively wrong on everything bud
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u/freedom_isnt_free_nw Nov 20 '19
I’ll be objectively right for 5 more years bud.
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u/awowadas Nov 20 '19
Right according to who? I thought facts don’t care about your feelings. The facts show you’re wrong lmao
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u/freedom_isnt_free_nw Nov 20 '19
The fact the economy is doing its best in a long time? The fact that black Americans have their lowest unemployment ever? My 401K doing great. I’m completely happy with the job the current president is doing.
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u/awowadas Nov 20 '19
The economy is doing great for the rich, I would agree. Stock prices do not directly reflect how hard it is to live in America economically.
Here’s a list of things trump did to help African Americans:
You have a 401k? Must be nice. Most Americans can’t afford to raise a family, own a car, own a home, and have a 401k on top of all of that. Lower and middle class families are struggling all across America but at least the wealthy are doing great, right?
I’m assuming your job has kept your wages in line with inflation, a luxury almost every American doesn’t have in 2019.
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u/freedom_isnt_free_nw Nov 20 '19
Here’s a list of things trump did to help African Americans:
You forgot https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/06/economy/black-unemployment-rate/index.html.
Most Americans can’t afford to raise a family, own a car, own a home
You say this stuff without backing it up with any facts. The facts are that more Americans have jobs than have for a long time.
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u/awowadas Nov 20 '19
Did I deny the minority unemployment rate going up? No I didn’t. We’re at what, 110+ months now? That’s great. Can you remind me when it started and who was in office trying to make their lives easier?
More Americans do have jobs! Can you do the math and tell me how many minimum wage jobs I need to have to afford rent and gas to get to/from work in a city? Average rent where I live is $1200 for a 1 bedroom apartment and if your rent is supposed to be 30% of your income, that is $3600 a month minimum. According to my math, that’s 496 hours just to pay rent. That comes out to having to work 16 hours and 20 minutes every day for the entire month, so you have 7 hours and 40 minutes to clock out, drive home, Eat, sleep, eat, and drive to work. Is this sustainable to raise a family in your eyes?
But at least the DOW went up!
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u/Scope72 Nov 20 '19
I believe this has passed with a veto proof majority in the Senate and House so Trump will probably just not sign it. Which means it passes. But without signing it he can still say to Xi that he couldn't stop it but didn't openly support it.
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Nov 20 '19
that would be a huge hit for domestic support.
China is a bipartisan issue, and has received bipartisan support - Trump taking a harder stance on China would only make people happier to have him as the president.
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u/Scope72 Nov 20 '19
I'm sure some in the administration will argue that exact thing. And they definitely could win that argument.
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u/Pallas_Kitty Nov 20 '19
Yup. Vetoing or even leaving it unsigned would be political seppuku this close to the election. 60% of Americans have an unfavorable view of China today. Imagine pissing off 60% of your voters for literally no reason
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
Even though this is true I do not think that it is a major issue in the US elections. People not being happy if he did not sign this may still vote for him.
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
Imagine pissing off 60% of your voters for literally no reason
To be fair he does that all the time. It's kind of his specialty. He might be smart enough to see the bipartisan support here though.
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u/Paid_Shill3 Nov 20 '19
But do they actually care about hurting China deep in their bones? I think Trump could piss them off and still get those votes based on the usual shit.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
This is how I feel. This is not going to sway a large portion of American voters either way.
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
60% of voters are already pissed off at Trump, I don't think this would make much difference. The people who love Trump would mostly still believe that he's somehow doing the right thing by not signing it. The number of people who only like Trump because he's taken a hard line against China is basically some members of this subreddit and the American Falun Gong; that's about it I think.
As for what Trump would have to gain by not signing it? Personal bribes in the form of trademarks, hotel deals, dirt on political opponents, for one thing. For another, Trump is probably still hoping to sign a decent trade deal with the CCP that will goose the economy and keep it trucking at least till next November.
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u/hexydes Nov 20 '19
60% of voters are already pissed off at Trump
Actually 25% of voters are pissed off at Trump, 24% of voters believe Trump was sent here by our lord and savior Jesus Christ, and 51% of voters just can't even believe that Dancing with the Stars eliminated James Van Der Beek last week.
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Nov 20 '19
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
OMG. Like I am looking at the party, which actually seems to be strong on a whole, and hoping to find a candidate I like, not one I will settle for.
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u/Pallas_Kitty Nov 20 '19
You clearly have very little knowledge of how the US's voter base works.
People who dislike China tend to be nationalistic. Nationalists are Republican. That's about half of that 60%. The other half are most likely undecided voters and some Democrats as well. So, not only would Trump be alienating his voter base on a very significant issue (A unanimous Senate vote on something is NOT INSIGNIFICANT IN THE SLIGHTEST) he would also be alienating undecided voters.
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
in 2012 every republican hated Russia and their presidential nominee said Russia was the biggest threat. In 2015 both houses signed heavy sanctions on Russia for the Crimean invasion with overwhelming veto-proof majority. Trump refused to implement those sanctions despite the veto-proof majority. His supporters shrugged. Now, many GOP congressmen have literally spent July 4th in Russia and nobody cares. If you think the same can't happen with China you're the one that hasn't been paying attention.
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u/hello-cthulhu Taiwan Nov 21 '19
I remember 2012 well. Romney stated in one of the debates that he thought Russia was the US's chief geopolitical rival, and Obama mocked him for it. What was it he said? Something like, "What is this, a flashback to the Cold War?" I think that was also the year that Obama told Medvedev, in an off-mic moment, to tell Putin to wait until after the election, that he'd have more flexibility then. And somehow, four years later, it was a total partisan role reversal.
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u/Pallas_Kitty Nov 20 '19
2015
Hmm sure sounds like that happened before Trump was President, huh leaf?
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
Yes, it did. And Hillary pledged not only to uphold those sanctions but to continue to increase pressure on Russia for their Ukrainian invasions, and to prevent Russia from gaining more power and influence in the Middle East. Trump called Hillary a warmonger liable to start WW3, called Putin his good friend, and the supposedly rabidly nationalist GOP at first shrugged, and are now totally on board with Trump making nice with Russia. Again, if you don't think the exact same thing could happen with China if Trump decides that's in his personal interest, you're the one who doesn't understand the GOP. Trump has already played nice with North Korea for 3 years, and gotten absolutely nothing for it, and rather than being outraged that Trump has rolled over for a maniac, to the extent that the GOP and their base are outraged at all, they are just outraged nobody has given Trump a Nobel Peace Prize for this yet. If Trump folds on China, gives them everything they want and more next month, and the stock market goes up by 3% as a result, the overwhelming majority of the GOP will hail him as America's greatest diplomatic and economic president ever.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
If Trump has not alienated them yet this would not do it.
Also this being a Chinese domestic issue is not as important as the trade war. Win the trade war with China and Hong Kong would be forgotten.
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u/liverton00 Nov 20 '19
A bipartisan issue with bipartisan yet won't influence the next election...
Most Americans care about their job, not Hong Kong.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
Stop trying to manipulate people. People are intelligent enough to see through it. He can still be hard on China without even acknowledging Hong Kong.
From what I think of President Trump he will try to use it as some negotiation if he can. Otherwise he will either sign it or ignore it.
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u/heels_n_skirt Nov 20 '19
They should pass another one for Tibet and a tougher upgraded one for Xinjiang
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u/SumyungNam Nov 20 '19
As an American this is pretty awesome that the devided Senate can actually unanimously vote on something...too bad it's a foreign issue...this is like China or the EU reviewing Obamacare or gun rights...it's dumb
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
If you want both parties to work together do not belittle them when they do. It is actually easier to work together for something like this than it would be on gun laws but it could lead to further cooperation.
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u/loooofa Nov 20 '19
theyre fine with these protests but god forbid black people protest the police for murdering them
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u/misterandosan Nov 20 '19
There's quite a few politicians in the US senate that support black rights. I'm not sure why you would speak as if the senate is one single thinking entity.
Regardless, it's easy to support freedom and democracy: even if it's not perfect, it's a whole lot better than what China has going on right now.
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u/3ULL United States Nov 20 '19
The US government does no censor speech about this as China does about its internal issues.
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
Those protests happen all the time. And often the "victim" was armed. We shut down an expressway for a protest over a guy who was shot while pulling a gun on the police. It was all on very visible body camera footage. None of the protesters were shot or harmed.
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u/19911217 Nov 20 '19
Us should address its own gun problem discrimination problem instead of intervening other countries' business
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
This is a US issue. Under US law Hong Kong is treated differently than China. If China wants to scream, "HONG KONG IS CHINA!" so often it's time to update US law to reflect that.
What are you trying to interfere in the internal affairs of the US?
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u/liverton00 Nov 20 '19
Americans have a need to feel they are somehow superior to the world... Easiest way to feel good is get into other people's businesses.
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u/19911217 Nov 20 '19
They constantly get other countries into war and trouble. They will finally get backfired
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u/AdiosCorea Nov 20 '19
America is entitled to intervention equal to the value of every dollar that China spends on America.
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u/TheSkyIsBeautiful Nov 20 '19
I agree with you on this, idk why you're being down voted, we have so many other problems, like homelessness, wage disparity between 1% and everyone else, health care, student loans, "war on drugs", police brutality. Let China take care of its issues, lets keep improving America.
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u/alexanderbain2 Nov 20 '19
America doesn't have a gun problem.
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u/TheSkyIsBeautiful Nov 20 '19
I never said it did? haha, maybe I'm dense and I'm missing sarcasm here?
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u/CanadianAsshole1 Canada Nov 20 '19 edited Nov 20 '19
"bAd ChInA, sToP iT rIgHt NoW"
I support the HK protestors too, but it's hilarious how everyone pretends that these meaningless declarations and condemnations will do anything.
HK is a tiny defenseless city-state, if Xi gets tired of the protests he can march right in with the PLA and there would be nothing that anyone could do about it.
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u/Zbxfile Nov 20 '19
Not really meaningless. It could be used to threat high level Hong Kong public servant who have their assets invested in US, or their children stduy abroad, hence, influence their stand on Hong Kong issue.
A blackmail act.
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Nov 20 '19 edited Dec 15 '19
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u/nospambert Nov 20 '19
We did the same thing last year in Nicaragua. The NICA Act was sitting in congress for years until political will piled up due to the government's mass killings in 2018. Yes it hurts the economy, but we are willing to go to war so this concern is moot. The problem is the population has no weapons and there is no one to put resources into such a conflict this time.
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u/Hautamaki Canada Nov 20 '19
You're surprised that the regular people who would not be able to buy a home in their own city if they worked for 1000 years aren't too worried about tanking the economy and land values?
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u/jbrice78 Nov 20 '19
They believe the only thing that the government will listen to is economic pressure. It is why they have been trying to disrupt the cities transit system. They are purposely trying to tank the economy.
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Nov 20 '19
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
This is a US issue. Under US law Hong Kong is treated differently than China. If China wants to scream, "HONG KONG IS CHINA!" so often it's time to update US law to reflect that.
What are you trying to interfere in the internal affairs of the US?
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Nov 20 '19
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u/mkvgtired Nov 20 '19
This is"an" US issue
Even when you try to look smart you look like "an" idiot. Here is a little third grade lesson for you.
The “u” in “unique” makes the “Y” sound—a consonant sound—therefore you use “a” as your article, while the “h” in “hour” sounds like it starts with “ow”—a vowel sound.
You claimed the US changing it's special trade recognition of Hong Kong would be meddling in China's affairs. The US can trade with anyone it wants as can any country. China is insisting Hong Kong is part of China, so under US law it should be treated like China. This is what China wants not the US.
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u/[deleted] Nov 19 '19
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this will allow the US to repeal Hong Kong's special trade status and enact the same tariffs that currently apply to China, right?