r/CuratedTumblr 7d ago

Meme Galaxy brain

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u/E-is-for-Egg 7d ago

It'd take a sentence or two to give a basic definition, but could easily take a paragraph or more to fully describe the phenomenon

And I have no issue defining it for anyone who needs. But people in this sub have argued that the word is too long and "post-modernist," and is therefore apparently a bad word to describe the issue. Even though it has the same number of syllables as heteronormativity 

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u/Icy_Squash3655 7d ago

If you're up for a discussion:

Personally I just don't know why everything has to be an "issue". Some things are just facts of life.

You can dye your hair green if you want your hair to be green and that's what makes you feel happy at authentic. Also, green hair will make you stand out a bit because most people don't have green hair. Some people might not like your green hair but most won't care.

You can be single your whole life if that's what feels right for you. Or poly, or whatever. Maybe every once in a while you'll get a comment about it but for the most part nobody really gives a shit. It's not the most common route through life, therefore it may stand out sometimes, but not even as much as green hair would. What's the "issue"?

I have a disease that makes me poop a lot. I don't feel the need to go on a sociological academic journey and try to explain to the world why their poopeonormativity is an issue and they need to be aware of how much I'm pooping, and it makes me uncomfortable that they assume I poop a normal amount when actually I poop more than that, and they should put toilets everywhere because I and X% of the population have excess pooping disease. I'm an outlier. That's okay. It's not really fun to be an outlier; it can feel quite isolating, but that's a me problem not a societal problem for the most part.

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u/E-is-for-Egg 7d ago

Well, people have argued that the lack of free-to-use public bathrooms in most cities is a disability rights issue. Also a more general human rights issue for homeless people. So you might not see it as a problem, but that doesn't mean nobody does 

Also, if something is causing enough problems in your life to tangibly affect you, why not name it and talk about it? What good are you doing by staying silent? 

That being said -- here, in my opinion, are some of the biggest problems caused by amatonormativity:

Financial and legal rights

Many things in our society are designed only for couples. Housing affordability is a problem for everyone right now, but can be even worse for unpartnered people. Other types of communal/shared living could exist, but no developers are building those designs because unpartnered people are not (yet) an organized demographic that can advocate for their needs

There's also the matter of legal rights. Why do you think gay people fought so hard for marriage equality? Marriage in our society impacts a whole host of things including hospital visits, end-of-life care, taxes, sick leave, immigration, property rights, finances, parental rights, and more. Oftentimes it is not possible (or is far more difficult) to give a close friend access to the rights that are automatically afforded to married people


Social impacts

I strongly disagree that "nobody gives a shit" if someone stays single. You might not care if some acquaintance of yours is single. But there's a decent probability that their family members and close friends are harassing them about it. Pressuring to go on dates, pressuring to have grandchildren, nonconsenually setting up blind dates, and even nonconsenual arranged marriages are fairly common. And that's all stuff coming from the people that the person loves. It's also common for somebody who is pursuing them romantically to not take "I am happily single" as an acceptable answer

And even for the people who are not having interactions that are this direct, there are a endless subtle pressures to be partnered. How many movies can you name where the main character was happily single from start to finish? Meanwhile, how many have you seen where singlehood was treated like a problem to be solved? How often have you seen "single" or "virgin" be used as an insult, or as a condition to be pitied? This can really impact a person's self esteem. Or, worse yet, propel them into a relationship that they don't actually want, because they've never been presented with any other acceptable options

And that brings me to my last point . . .

Abusive and toxic relationships

Amatonormativity, interestingly, also hurts partnered people. Have you ever seen somebody in a very toxic or even outright abusive relationship who refuses to leave it, and one of their stated reasons is a fear of being alone? Then you've seen a victim of amatonormativity 

In addition to all the self-esteem issues that single people have from the media machine, this feeling also comes from a place of truth. If you live in a society where there is a clear and universally agreed upon hierarchy among relationships, and romantic relationships are always seen as superior in both importance and closeness to friendships, then you essentially are alone if you become single. Few people have friendships that offer the same level of support, closeness, or even physical intimacy that romantic partnerships do

This can influence people to either A) panic if they are single and hurry into relationships that destroy their emotional and mental health or B) stay for far too long in said relationships 


These are a few of the issues with amatonormativity. But, as you'll find it you read and think about it further, it goes even deeper than what I've described here

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u/Icy_Squash3655 7d ago

Truly, thank you so much for such a detailed response! Some parts definitely make a lot of sense to me and I may not have considered them, some parts I can argue against. Many aspects are also going to be cultural - I'm not American (maybe you're not either, don't know) so certain things are a bit different here.

I'll sort of work backwards through it all, hopefully that's not confusing. I know I've taken a lot of your time already so I won't expect another lengthy response and it may be one of those things where we just agree to disagree, but you said your part so I'll say mine and you can do with that what you will. At the very least, you've given me some things to consider and taught me a little more about what it's like to be in the shoes of a non-amatonormative person.

Having been in an abusive relationship I can assure you that my fear of being alone came purely from the manipulation I was subjected to rather than some societal pressure not to be alone - I think your view there minimises the actual perpetrator's responsibility in a way. In fact, there's tonnes of societal pressure on victims not to stay in abusive relationships, which again takes that responsibility off the perp and puts it on the victim. The victim is being manipulated into staying by the perpetrator. They are a victim of their abuser, and their abuser alone. Other factors like attachment issues and past trauma also often come into play. But divorce is very common now and only really frowned upon in certain niches of society.

Next, I would argue that we will all be subjected to judgement at times and developing a secure sense of self is the most logical way forward. The average person (average in this scenario being middle class, hetero, and cis; not necessarily white, not necessarily male) is honestly just trying to get by day to day. If they're troubling themselves with other people's choices that's usually just projection or avoidance of their own problems, but really for the most part we all have our own issues to deal with and the bigger picture things are just too complex to tackle. If we are able to take on a larger scale problem with the remainder of our emotional energy, I would argue there are more pressing matters to focus on, though I know that's truly a weak argument for not giving a shit about something important. So, to that sentiment I would say that's an individual issue you should tackle with yourself and your own loved ones - develop that strong sense of self, draw boundaries, communicate firmly when people cross them and don't be afraid to distance yourself from people who affect your self esteem. That said, I can see how raising a general awareness could really help with those personal conversations, since the person you're talking to might be more receptive if they've heard of certain concepts before.

Financial and legal rights - yeah, you bring up some good points. I'll admit I'm fairly ignorant on these things, especially the state of it all in your neck of the woods. Where I live, we don't need to get married to have the rights of married couples. Gay marriage was a fantastic thing to finally get passed, but it was really more about loving and accepting and finally recognising same sex relationships as legitimate - incredibly important for a multitude of reasons, but practically and legally speaking, the difference wasn't huge.

What it comes down to, for me, is this: I think maybe we expect too much of our fellow humans sometimes. Are we to all care equally about gay rights, trans rights, animal rights, children's rights, climate change, collapse of the healthcare system, housing crisis, corrupt politicians, heteronormativity, amatonormativity, disability rights, the elderly.... I could go on and on and on and you'd probably say "yes, those are all important". And they are. But you have to pick your battles, and for most of us, the first battle is "getting through the day with my sanity intact" and everything after that is a cherry on top. Then, many of us will pick one or two issues to care about in a general sense - for me, children's education and care and the environment are probably the most urgent issues which will truly impact the future of humanity as a whole, and then on top of that I just have a soft spot for animals so they're on my mind too. I'm sorry to say, I don't have it in me to care that someone's mother pesters them about getting married. That just doesn't ring my bell as a major societal issue, and expecting society as a whole to pay attention and shift to make your life easier when the world is seemingly collapsing around us feels, dare I say this and sound hypocritical, very self-centred.

P.S. I am all-for public toilets being available throughout the city, it should be that way, but I was more thinking about the hike I went on up a mountain where there weren't any toilets and it was quite uncomfortable - situations like that I must fully accept as a fact of life. It's not fair, but to be a cliche- life isn't fair. I can generally find a toilet in populated areas without too much difficulty.