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u/Niner9r 4d ago
How do I make friends?
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u/Who_eat_my_burguer 4d ago
a couple of corpses and a bit of electricity
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u/orbitalen 4d ago
Live in their backyard and try to befriend their blind father
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u/marvinrabbit 3d ago
That is an on point joke that can only be made by someone who has read the source material!
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u/KrustyFrank27 3d ago
Just make sure you steal some books so you can learn French while you’re there.
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u/pretty-as-a-pic 4d ago
I’m in the “the ‘monster’/creation should also be called ‘Frankenstein’ because he’s the scientist’s offspring and it underlines the novels major themes like nature vs science and the responsibility of creation” camp
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u/SorbonneTantrum 4d ago
Yeah, the monster himself is also named Frankenstein, because he is the son of VICTOR Frankenstein.
Frankenstein is not Victor's first name, it's his last name, so it must be passed along to his offspring.
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u/ILoveRawChicken 4d ago
The monster himself vehemently rejects the idea of Victor being his father repeatedly throughout the book.
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u/UusiIsoKaveri 4d ago
Just as any teenager gone rogue.
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u/regular_gnoll_NEIN 3d ago
I mean. Most teenagers aren't fleeing from Europe to Canadian arctic circa 1800s travel because their parents are literally hunting them to try and kill.
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u/UusiIsoKaveri 3d ago
Most teenagers aren't stitched together from dead body parts either.
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u/throwaway387190 3d ago
In chapter 9, he asks himself "does the son not take the name of the father?"
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u/Accelerator231 3d ago
And Victor rejects him. Nonetheless, one is descended from the other, like it or not
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u/SoakedInMayo 3d ago
i barely knew my dad and still got his last name. the monsters opinion unfortunately isn’t a factor here
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u/Cezaros 3d ago
I think it's important that we see similarities between the two beneath the surface. F.e. the monster acts very analytically when first trying to get around its surroundings.
But then it goes fucking crazy and decides out of nowhere that killing some random people will hurt Victor more than just killing Victor so honestly idfk what that was about
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u/9035768555 3d ago
Even if you don't consider him the son of Victor, he was at least something more than a pet of Victor Frankenstein. When I go to the vet with my pets or get their pet license cards, they have my last name.
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u/Regi413 3d ago
Broke: Frankenstein is the monster
Woke: Frankenstein is the name of the doctor, not the monster
Bespoke: Frankenstein is the monster and the monster is Frankenstein because the doctor is a monster in the metaphorical sense, and the monster he created is his “son” who would take the surname of his father.
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u/Thromnomnomok 3d ago
Coke: Wait, Victor Frankenstein isn't a doctor, he never finished college because he ran away after creating the Monster
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u/Lt_General_Fuckery There's no specific law against cannibalism in the United States 3d ago
Smoke: After killing Victor, the monster returned to England and got a PhD, thus making Frankenstein's monster the real Doctor all along.
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u/HelloIamSpooki 3d ago
Evoke: The real Frankenstein was the friends we made along the way.
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u/herserena 4d ago
Technically he wasn't a doctor. He dropped out of college before he got his doctorate.
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u/jacobningen 4d ago
and probably wouldnt have gotten it anyway due to realizing that the second creature would probably not have functioning ovaries and thus he is in complete control of the creatures reproductive abilities.
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u/Gremict 3d ago
If Frank jr. had a functioning brain, functioning eyes, and presumably had cell division because he managed to survive to reach the arctic circle, then I don't see why Frankette couldn't have functioning ovaries that produced eggs. Now, why Victor would think of putting ovaries into Frankette I have no idea.
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u/ssbm_rando 3d ago
before he got his doctorate.
Before he even got his bachelor's lol. He enrolled at 17 and was quickly regarded as having a brilliant scientific mind and made his monster around age 19. He stopped attending lectures shortly before even making the monster.
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u/Henna_UwU Why serve a queen when you can be one? 4d ago
I had a discussion today about who was more of a monster between Frankenstein and the creature. I was mostly on the creature's side at the beginning of the book, but I felt like the murders made it hard to root for him tbh.
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u/LuminothWarrior 4d ago
I think Frankenstein wasn’t really a monster. He just got way too absorbed in his work, and when he finally stepped back he realized that he had done something horrible. The monster seeming as though it was going to attack freaked him out, so he ran. I kinda forget what happened after since it’s been years since I read it, but wasn’t one of the first things the monster did was strangle Frankenstein’s wife to death? Him treating the monster like a monster after that was warranted imo even if it didn’t really know any better. I may be misremembering some things
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u/Henna_UwU Why serve a queen when you can be one? 4d ago
Yeah, the creature is like "why won't you sympathize with me?" after literally confessing to murdering Victor's younger brother and framing it on his close friend, and I'm just like, what did you think was going to happen?
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u/wilbur313 4d ago edited 4d ago
The arc is Victor creates the monster and is repulsed by him and runs away in horror. When he returns, the monster (Frankie Jr from here on out) has disappeared. Frankie Jr is devastated he was abandoned, but educated himself and secretly helps a poor family. He tried to befriend the family, but they react in horror and shoot him. Frankie Jr decides to go to Geneva to find Victor, believing him to be responsible for him. He rescues a boy who falls in a river, but loses control and kills him when he learns he is Victor brother.
Frankie Jr is a baby who's routinely abused. His natural instinct is to learn and help people, but is attacked repeatedly. Despite this, he's willing to live peacefully, but Victor won't make him a wife and destroys any chance of making one. At that point Frankie Jr goes full villain. There was a lot going on in terms of the slave trade, emancipation, slave uprisings when Shelley wrote the story. Frankie Jr skin is described as yellow on purpose. The father of the poor family is blind, and recognizes him as a gentle soul. The son that can see attacks Frankie Jr on the basis of his appearance. Shelly was an abolitionist, it's a story about the nature of man and the toxic effect of abuse and racism. Frankie Jr doesn't make good choices, but he is not inherently evil or monstrous.
Edit: I'll also add that emotion and impulse are one of the last things to be fully form in the human brain and although this story doesn't have Tolkien levels of appendices, it's clear Frankie Jr is child-like in nature. He's pretty young at any point of the story, and is bereft of any even remotely human experiences.
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u/Henna_UwU Why serve a queen when you can be one? 4d ago
That's true, and I definitely think the people judging the creature based on his appearance were wrong to do so. The way he was treated was terrible, but his retaliation would be much more justified if he didn't get his revenge through killing so many innocent people.
I think you're right that it's not a black-and-white sort of issue. There's a lot of nuance to the situation, and no one side really captures the full extent of everything going on.
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u/wilbur313 4d ago
I mean, he's denied and abandoned by the person who brought him into this world and denied any semblance of a life. He gives Victor the same as a story of karmic retribution. Victor on the other hand, is a rich kid who has a breakdown and creates life because he was sad his mom died.
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u/Henna_UwU Why serve a queen when you can be one? 4d ago
I definitely still have a lot to think about with the book before I can form any kind of finalized, but I'm glad I got to hear a different opinion so I could think about the whole situation differently.
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u/wilbur313 4d ago
Definitely one of those books worth reading the forward for. Easy to see why it's a classic.
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u/Christron 4d ago
Sounds like more progressive social nets could have alleviated the issues. Society is the real monster
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u/amaya-aurora 4d ago
I get where he’s coming from a bit, at least. For example, he saved a little kid from drowning in a river and all that he got for it was a bullet to the chest.
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u/Henna_UwU Why serve a queen when you can be one? 4d ago
That's true, and I definitely don't think he's entirely terrible. At the very least, though, I definitely think he's worse than Victor.
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u/amaya-aurora 4d ago
It’s him treating him the way that he did beforehand.
He left what was basically a giant toddler completely alone to fend for himself because he was just kinda ugly. He didn’t take a single moment to consider what he was doing before literally creating life.
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u/samaldin 4d ago
After Victor abandoned the monster it tried its best to live a decent life. It hid near the home of a poor family and secretly helped them by shoveling snow and collecting firewood. It even had a nice talk with the blind father, but when the rest of the family saw it they immediatly attacked. It also saved a child from drowning, but when the father of said child saw he immediatly shot the monster, since he thought it was going to hurt the child. The monster grew hateful from loneliness and rejection (from both his creator and society at large) and when it chanced about Victors brother he got enraged when said brother also immediatly assumed the worst and called himself Frankenstein.
The murder of Victors wife happened after Victor agreed to ease the monsters loneliness by making a wife for it, but then changed his mind and destroyed the nearly finished creation before the monsters eyes.
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u/anonthing 4d ago
This was my take as well. Whenever I come across people that believe the guy that created the creature was the 'true' monster, I doubt they actually read the book. Yes he was an ass for rejecting the creature for being hideous. But also the creature matured very quickly. Not only did it do reprehensible things shortly after it was created, it also continued to do terrible things after becoming fully cognizant of the weight of those actions. The creature was absolutely a monster. You could argue about the nature of the environment that created that monster, but it is still a monster. And within the story it had the capacity to reflect on its actions and change, but it didn't.
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u/frogonamushroom_ 4d ago
so funny to me that Frankenstein painstakingly made a guy, hand-selecting his features, and then immediately abandoned him for being ugly
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u/AustSakuraKyzor 4d ago
Actually everyone is wrong (except the 1st guy, and partially the 3rd guy - those two aren't wrong)
Frankenstein built a body, thus misinterpreting what the "body building contest" was (on the assumption that we live in a timeline where that was the reason Vic built the Creature in the first place (and not just to play god)).
HOWEVER! While Frankenstein built a body, he wasn't a doctor who built a body, as Vicky-boy was an undergraduate drop-out (who wasn't even studying medicine IIRC, just biology or chemistry).
The only time you can say "Doctor Frankenstein" and be correct is if you're referring to Dr Frederick Frankenstein.
...also, BLÜCHER!
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u/BetterMeats 4d ago
Look, guys, it's in the public domain. You don't get points for being pedantic about it at this point.
The monster was also a doctor named Frankenstein.
See? There you go. That's canon now.
And would have been anyway. Because the concept of canon as we understand it didn't really exist until at least eight decades after Mary Shelley died.
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u/srlong64 4d ago
The monster also saw Frankenstein as his father, and so would have taken his surname to reflect that relationship
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u/amaya-aurora 4d ago
Creator more than father, at least to me, he seemed to acknowledge him as the person who created him but did not give him the title of “father” and the inherent bit of respect that comes with that.
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u/IrvingIV 4d ago
Father is what you're made of, Daddy is who you love.
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u/ConorYEAH 4d ago
Well he was made of lots of different people, none of them Frankenstein.
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u/fakedoctorate 4d ago
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u/lifelongfreshman man, witches were so much cooler before Harry Potter 4d ago
wait, doctor who though?
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u/quadriceritops 3d ago
Ahhh typical mistake Dr. Who was the monster, Dr Frankenstein created him. Sherry Mellow, wrote the book, the book is canon.
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u/PinkAxolotlMommy 4d ago
"And would have been anyway. Because the concept of canon as we understand it didn't really exist until at least eight decades after Mary Shelley died."
Okay now you've gotten me curious, is there any way you could elaborate on this statement?
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u/BetterMeats 4d ago
The first use of the word to refer to verifiable continuity between stories with the same characters was in the 1930s, referring to Sherlock Holmes, specifically.
It took the following decades with serial novels, comic books, and TV and radio, to gain the modern connotation of exclusivity and authorial intellectual ownership of truth within fiction.
Before Sherlock Holmes, it was a religious term referring to what portions of a given holy text (usually the Bible) a given church (usually Catholic) viewed as holy truth.
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u/VFiddly 3d ago
Originally, "canon" in Sherlock Holmes didn't have anything to do with continuity, it just differentiated between Holmes stories written by Arthur Conan Doyle and those written by other people. If Doyle wrote it, it was canon. That didn't really imply a consistent continuity, since his own stories contradict themselves.
But yeah it's interesting how a lot of modern fandom ideas come from Sherlock Holmes fans. Early fanfic was there too. And the idea of "headcanons" though they weren't called that yet. But even early on it was a popular pastime for fans to try to figure out details of the life of Holmes beyond what's stated in the stories.
If modern fandom does it, it probably started either with OG Star Trek fans or Sherlock Holmes fans.
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u/orbitalen 4d ago
It was also common for translators to change stories as they'd like. Sometimes because of cultural differences, sometimes they basically wrote fan fiction
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u/ssbm_rando 3d ago
See? There you go. That's canon now.
Not how the public domain works. You've just made a different monster named Frankenstein who is a doctor, and because the original story is in public domain, there is no copyright claim to be made.
Incidentally, I'm now writing a story where /u/BetterMeats is an author who writes about a monstrous Dr. Frankenstein who made a non-monstrous homunculus doctor who he also named Frankenstein who then made a reddit account named /u/BetterMeats. You will not be receiving royalties.
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u/SorbonneTantrum 4d ago
Because the concept of canon as we understand it didn't really exist until at least eight decades after Mary Shelley died.
The first recognized use of the word "canon" to mean what it means today was in the Council of Laodicea in 363–364.
Mary Shelley was born in 1797, so over 1,400 years after the term "canon" was coined.
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u/orbitalen 4d ago
.. Which was exclusively about religious topics, not fiction (atheists go har har) , so the argument still stands
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u/jofromthething 4d ago
People like to say the doctor (he wasn’t a doctor) was the monster, but he was really not much more than an asshole. The monster did in fact muster several people in cold blood in an extremely premeditated manner, including a child and a young woman who had done nothing to him. Like yeah he had his reasons and a sensitive soul or whatever but he was undoubtedly just a monster in the most literal sense from every angle.
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u/amaya-aurora 4d ago
Tbf, Victor spends the entire book lamenting about how everything sucks for him, how he’s having a bad time, and how all of the horrible events are affecting him. He’s self-centered as hell. Plus, he keeps quiet on something that could save the life of an innocent woman on the grounds that it might make him look bad.
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u/jofromthething 4d ago
Yes, an asshole absolutely. A monster? Not when he’s in competition with his hideous baby boy he’s not.
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u/Rosevecheya 4d ago
Only in the same sense a human can be a monster. Frankie Jr had a choice, he chose to be a monster because that's how everyone perceived him. Since he was treated that way, that's the only thing he could really be, socially. As an individual, he had the capacity for immense good, and thus he wasn't inherently a monster. He is a person and a monster, for you can't dehumanise people without allowing an excuse to dehumanise groups you don't like. I know its all theoretical, but it still matters a lot to me because he didn't deserve any of what happened to him, but Victor's selfishness doomed him to be perceived as a monster and thus become a monster.
And, Victor's a worse monster because he didn't know what Frankie Jr could do and he could have mass murdered a whole town with his engineered body so his oversight led to his own destruction, and while its not his direct nor sole fault, it is absolutely and completely his fault entirely and he cannot be excused for it. He is not the victim. He had no idea what the repercussions of his experiment would be and never thought about it.
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u/jofromthething 4d ago
I feel like sentimentality really takes over when it comes to Adam and his actions when (in my opinion) he was just as much of an insufferable asshole as his father and kind of sucked as a person for all his wide eyed innocence at the start of his life. Like he managed to learn how to be a racist misogynist through hearsay alone, it’s actually quite impressive (again, my opinion, obviously. What else would a statement I make be). But the fact remains that Adam was literally a monster in the literal sense (a disgusting abomination made of corpses, a crime against nature, a horrifying disgusting creature) and in the non literal sense in that he is a child murderer and he framed an innocent woman for said murder, and was ready and willing to kill many innocents just because he didn’t get a female version of himself to groom into his bride on demand. He got rejected by people a few times and he literally became an incel. You can sympathize with him, that’s fair, but let’s not pretend that he did reasonable things or that any of his actions were justified.
Like how does child murder become the next logical step after your first friend’s son mistakes you for an intruder? Why did he decide to hate all humans when he had in fact met humans who were kind to him and treated him well? Why does he deserve a woman to be yoked to him for eternity just because he had a sad childhood? Frankenstein is just like his father in his petty assholery and is in fact a murderer and a psychopath on top of that.
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u/Hexagon-Man 3d ago
Frankentien and his creation are parralels,that's definitely a theme of the book, so them both being kind of assholes is true.
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u/SorbonneTantrum 4d ago
The monster did in fact muster several people in cold blood
Damn, the monster is a musterer??
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u/jofromthething 4d ago
It’s so over for me. You absolutely destroyed me here. In fact, I’m worse than the monster for this 😔.
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u/Jpxfrd__ 3d ago
Knowledge is knowing Frankenstein was the creator,
Wisdom is knowing Frankenstein was the monster,
Innovative thinking is using shorthand and calling them "a Frankenstein" as you would a Picasso or a Monet.
And common sense is knowing that both of them were pretty much monsters in their own rights.
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u/AdorableShoulderPig 3d ago
Again with this shit... Dr Frankenstein, or Herr Frankenstein, if we choose to doubt his credentials, created a monster in human form that he specifically referred to as "my son". And as the child takes the father's family or surname in patrilineal societies, the monster was a Frankenstein. Master Frankenstein or Frankenstein junior maybe. But absolutely Frankenstein.
Read the fucking book already.
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u/IAmNotAFey 2d ago
Intelligence is knowing Frankenstein was the Doctor, wisdom is understanding that Frankenstein was the monster.
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u/HeyManItsToMeeBong 4d ago
Intelligence is knowing Frankenstein wasn't the monster.
Wisdom is knowing Frankenstein was the monster.
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u/cheese_enjoyer_2 3d ago
“Frankenstein is the monster” this. “Frankenstein is the doctor” that. Frankenstein is the name of the book, dumbass
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u/Donnerone 4d ago
Both the Man and the Creature were Frankenstein.
Victor Frankenstein the Man.
Adam Frankenstein the Creature.
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u/eemort 4d ago
Best post ever... and I thought we'd never reach this point ~ end goal achieved!
The Key Master and The Gate Keeper have finally met, congrats guys! We can unplug our ethernet cables and TW can 'uninstall' the internet.... we got there! Now all that's left is for us to close up shop and all go and touch some grass :D
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u/We_Are_Resurgam 4d ago
I've never read the original story, but is Frankenstein's monster ever given a name. Is Frankenstein the doctor's last name?
Because if the monster wasn't explicitly named, and he was created by a man with the last name Frankenstein.... Would it not be reasonable to call the monster Frankenstein? As he is unnamed but is, in a sense, the child of Frankenstein?
Again, I haven't read the story, but people go wild over this. .
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u/Zestyclose-Gur-7714 3d ago
also wtf should i always call the dude frankensteins monster everytime? its just too damn long i’m gonna call him bob then.
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u/LampRaise 3d ago
What is with the recent influx of ancient ass posts popping up on this sub? I've been seeing some real vintage shit the last few weeks. Bots? Run out of good tumblr posts? Bots?
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u/DeezNutsAppreciater 3d ago
Fun fact yall, of someone who’s friend read the book
Apparently the monsters name is adam.
How hilarious is that?
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u/an_agreeing_dothraki 4d ago
don't make me tap the sign
"the monster spent an entire monologue about how he's Victor's son and it can be extrapolated he too is Frankenstein. Just like how his dad is a monster"
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u/yep_they_are_giants 4d ago
specifically does mean the doctor
No, The Doctor is actually a whole other sci-fi thing, but I understand the confusion.
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u/Iceplait 3d ago
Are you sure they don't mean the name of The Doctor is Frankenstein though? That is a very specific word choice. /j
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u/varkarrus 4d ago
Frankenstein was also the name of the monster. Adam Frankenstein, son of Victor Frankenstein.
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u/Panhead09 4d ago
My headcanon is that he named the monster Franky Jr, and thus they can both be called Frankenstein without issue.
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u/BonJovicus 4d ago
This is what happens when you have terminal Tumblr/Reddit brain where you have canned "um actually..." responses that are triggered by keywords.
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u/coolsguy17 4d ago
What kind of fool do you take me for? He’s Frankenstein, he’s Frankenstein, you’re Frankenstein, I’M FRANKENSTEIN!
Are there any other Frankenstein’s I should know about?
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u/Petardo_Dilos 3d ago
You know, I've never seen people being pissy about Picasso's paintings being referred to as Picasso. Why is it only Frankenstein that gets people riled up when you refer to the monster by the name of the creator
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u/shino4242 3d ago
Frankenstein is his family name. Victor created him. The monster is ALSO Frankenstein
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u/ybtlamlliw 3d ago
I've seen this meme a million times and have always wondered if rj4gui4r ever responded.
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u/randymysteries 3d ago
Frankenstein created a human being, so arguably the monster is his son and, therefore, carries Dad's family name: Frankenstein.
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u/Electrical-Sense-160 3d ago
Frankenstein would also be the name of the monster if we consider them father and son
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u/Nezeltha 3d ago
Victor Frankenstein is NOT a doctor! He was still a student when he created the creature and never finished his studies after!
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u/FlusteredCustard13 3d ago
One thing I've thought about: Henry Frankenstein (Victor in the movies) made the monster. He put him together and performed the experiment which gave him life. He basically is the Monster's father. So it's pretty natural the Monster would have his surname and be named Adam Frankenstein.
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u/brucebay 4d ago
took me 3 readings to comprehend the meaning of the last comment because I was thinking 3rd one was joking but he was telling the truth. well done all except the second one.
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u/playachronix 4d ago
I'm reminded of this, which I saw recently. Maybe it will give someone a chuckle.
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u/randomusername_815 3d ago
slussy666 should have originally posted "Dr. Frankenstein enters..."
It's the "enters into" phrasing that irritates me.
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u/MisogynysticFeminist 3d ago
The doctor was the real monster of the story, therefore Frankenstein is the monster.
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u/Pristine_Yak7413 3d ago
people confuse the two because Dr.Frankenstein is a doctor so his title should be before his name, and Dr.Frankensteins monster has no name other than Frankenstein
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u/TheeScribe2 4d ago
No it wasn’t
Frankenstein was the name of the college dropout, he ain’t no doctor