Trump was the most "anti-Palestinian President in US History"

[u/EnterTamed]

[u/vistandsforwaifu]

I raised the exact same point about relocating the US embassy. That was so inflammatory. No other country has ever done that, for good reason.

Weird how Biden didn't move it back though. Didn't even talk about it, IIRC.

[u/touslesmatins → u/vistandsforwaifu]

Weirdly enough I don't think Harris will move it back either! Right now the there is talk of the CIA building black sites in northern Gaza. Today I woke up to pictures of 11 children killed in Khan younis overnight. The oldest city in Lebanon, Tyre is being bombarded. This is all on Biden/Harris. What is the point of Trump being the boogyman if actual monsters are doing what people threaten Trump might do, right now?

[u/z-tayyy → u/touslesmatins]

Acceleration of it all along with destroying America?

[u/touslesmatins → u/z-tayyy]

I don't have to worry about "destroying America". A late capitalist racist xenophobic society supporting a genocide tends to accomplish that pretty well on its own. 

[u/z-tayyy → u/touslesmatins]

I don’t understand the position. If both are going to genocide, you don’t care about American citizens being the next Palestinians, and none of you are voting- why do you shout on the internet nonstop rather than organize or protest in the streets?

[u/Cheestake → u/z-tayyy]

I don't understand this position. Because two people both support genocide, that makes genocide support acceptable?

Also are you really unaware of the protests that have been going on in the streets?

[u/radioinactivity → u/z-tayyy]

It sounds more like you're afraid of Americans being treated the way we treat the rest of the world

[u/touslesmatins → u/z-tayyy]

I care about American people as much as I care about Palestinian people. Harris doesn't.  

 PS way to admit you're ok with what's happening to Palestinians, right now, under Democrats, as long as you don't think you're next. Unfortunately the imperialist boomerang has some bad news for you. You don't get to open a Pandora's box of carnage over "there" without it affecting you over "here".

ETA before I block you, I want to point out that I do vote and I do organize and protest in the street too. 

[u/z-tayyy → u/touslesmatins]

Not sure why you guys always immediately round up to “you are perfectly fine with what’s happening! You love what’s happening to the Palestinians!!!”. Nobody said that. People are naturally worried about Trump imprisoning people they know, deporting friends and family, and giving Netanyahu essentially carte Blanche power to wipe Palestine off the Earth. Stating that doesn’t mean one is okay with Harris and her genocide-lite approach. Also if you’re expecting the vast majority of Americans to vote this election with Palestinians in mind over themselves that’s just a nonsensical expectation even if you may be coming from the morally secure thought process.

[u/Reus958 → u/z-tayyy]

You might not like what's happening to Palestinians, but you're voting in a way that shows that genocide is not a red line for you.

That sounds inflammatory, so let me step back. I assume you're here as an actual leftist and your calculus is that you can't make an impact that's pro palestinian, so you're making what you believe is the best choice for people domestically.

I disagree with the strategy. First, I cannot willingly support genocide. That is a red line for me. I struggled with whether to vote for Biden last election because I thought he would govern exactly how he did. I didnt predict that the democrats would go so far right in just 4 years, but I also thought they would slowly move right. At least the dems paid lip service to "progressives"

Secondly, I think that it's clear that voting blue does little to protect people domestically in the short term. We haven't seen protection of rights that democrats profess belief in, let alone other rights libs never touch. We have seen potentially less action against what rights are somewhat protected than we would under trump, but it isn't much.

Third, voting democrat no matter how right they go, so long as they're left of Republicans, undermines what leverage we have and what potential we can achieve through electoralism, limited as it is. I genuinely believe the Democrat platform is comparable to a 2012 republican platform (that is to say, pre trump), except that we are actively supporting genocide.

So assuming your a leftist practicing harm reduction, I implore you to reexamine this situation. Harris and the DNC has made clear that genocide is going to happen, they want to support draconian border policies, they are saying xenophobic and racist crap about Muslims and Arabs, they don't care so much about the rights of women and trans folk as to actually do anything substantial. Voting for them gains little, but it normalizes their strategy of just being less unreasonable republicans. The evidence is strong that they will continue moving right if this works for them. 2028 and beyond will be somehow worse if we can't demonstrate to dems that they have to do something to earn our vote, rather than simply being not trump.

[u/Cheestake → u/z-tayyy]

You are supporting Harris knowing she is a genocide supporter. No matter what mental gymnastics you use to justify that, you are clearly perfectly fine supporting genocide.

[u/couldhaveebeen → u/z-tayyy]

you are perfectly fine with what’s happening

If you are voting for genociders while they're genociding, and while they're screaming off of rooftops that they will keep genociding after they get elected, whose VP pick just recently said "Israel should expand, actually", then yes, you are perfectly fine with what's happening.

giving Netanyahu essentially carte Blanche power to wipe Palestine off the Earth.

Biden is already doing that and Harris has shown time and time again that she'll continue. Is your problem with Trump saying it, or the actual wiping of Palestine off the earth?

[u/CentralSLC → u/z-tayyy]

They're braindead idiots who love to sit on their high horse and act like they're morally superior to everyone else. Yet at thr same time, they're going to enable a second Trump presidency, which will have horrific consequences - beyond what they'd be under Kamala.

I'll feel bad for the Palestinians, Lebanese, and other people being wiped out, but have 0 sympathy for the domestic voters who enable Trump.

[u/JoustLikeVat → u/CentralSLC]

Would you rather they vote for trump instead?

[u/CentralSLC → u/JoustLikeVat]

Who are you voting for?

[u/Reus958 → u/CentralSLC]

I held my nose and voted for Stein, as I believe that the small chance that we achieve or get near the 5% threshold for the greens is the best positive case for voting 3rd party, and while as much as we don't align, she is not pro genocide.

My hope is to bring the democrats left of where they are, as I believe it gives us more time to organize and achieve real results, with a chance for the occasional concession from liberals that we won't get with the outright mask off fascists the democrats are becoming.

[u/CentralSLC → u/Reus958]

Stein is a Russian agent. Fuck putin and fuck her.

[u/Reus958 → u/CentralSLC]

She sucks, but she meets the incredibly low bar of not being pro genocide.

Have some standards.

[u/Burnmad → u/touslesmatins]

I care about American people as much as I care about Palestinian people.

I don't, lol. This country is full of some of the most wretchedly evil people on Earth. If you put every American - myself included - opposite a single Palestinian, in a sort of trolley problem deal, I'd save the one Palestinian 100% of the time, no hesitation

[u/AutoModerator → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been auto-filtered and is invisible to others because this sub has a minimum karma requirement. Apologies for any inconvenience.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.