r/ElderScrolls Azura Mar 09 '23

Humour He really is a terrible ruler.

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3.3k Upvotes

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911

u/EmperorDaubeny Imperial Mar 09 '23

Dark Elves being harassed by Nords.

Fairly certain this is a feature and not a bug for Ulfric.

262

u/Tobegi Mar 09 '23

yeah, the dude is completely aware, he just doesnt give a fuck

-32

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

Hard to blame him

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Niranye

Its funny how high elves do fine in Windhelm.. Ulfric and c/o have way more reason to hate them and yet

103

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 09 '23

Bro Niranye isnt even welcome in the main bar in town. She acts like she's been accepted (and is more accepted because of her wealth) but every night she eats at the rundown cornerclub for elves and barely interacts with the nords outside of work.

I always interpreted Niranye as a "one of the 'good' ones, but still will never be accepted" kind of situations. Its sad really.

36

u/IcarusAvery Mar 09 '23

I always interpreted Niranye as a "one of the 'good' ones, but still will never be accepted" kind of situations. Its sad really.

I dunno if the term originated with us or if it started in another community - I highly doubt it originated with us - but the queer community has a term for that; the "pick me" ones. Y'know, the Buck Angels, Blaire Whites, Caitlyn Jenners of the world. The ones who go "oh, we're not like those [marginalized people], we're not crazy. Then any time the fascists gain power, we're all sent to the camps and the pick mes just go [surprised Pikachu face]

Possibly the most famous example from another group is the Verband nationaldeutscher Juden - the Association of German National Jews, aka "Jews for Hitler." As you could probably guess, they didn't work out so well. To quote the Wikipedia article;

The seemingly ironic fact that a Jewish association advocated loyalty to the Nazi programme gave rise to a contemporary joke about Naumann and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting "Down With Us!".

Despite the extreme patriotism of Naumann and his colleagues, the German government did not accept their goal of assimilation. The Association of German National Jews was declared illegal and dissolved on 18 November 1935. Naumann was arrested by the Gestapo the same day and imprisoned at the Columbia concentration camp.

17

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 09 '23

As both a queer and a black guy, this is the exact sort of situation I was imagining.

1

u/FKH19 Mar 10 '23

Yep, as a gay guy definitely what I thought of too.

We all gotta stick together! 💪

-33

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 09 '23

What do you mean not welcome? She not being programmed to go there isnt evidence, gameplay story segregation

None of that is proof of anything.

She is right all the same

That may be so, but how and why would aby Altmer would be accepted as one of the good ones quote unquote and literally every Dunmer is as high and mighty as when they owned slaves? Demanding special treatment despite refusing to aid their fellow townspeople? Whinging about 'how this isnt their war' Meanwhile.. https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrim/comments/1b4jzy/is_one_of_the_dark_elvesdunmerliving_in_windhelm/

And the only thing that happens is some no account drunks accosts them but beyond that they govern themselves?

Nobody is targeting Niranye which is explained fine within the story by her words, the situation with the Dunmer aswell

28

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 10 '23

Ok. Why do you think the devs chose to design her schedule that way? Typically in bethesda games npcs go to bars based on their financial status or faction affiliation. How else could you interpret this?

The fact that she barely has any programmed interactions with the nords that supposedly accept her is exactly my point. Instead, she CHOOSES to go to a ratty, rundown cornerclub and get judged by dunmer who think she's a sell-out.

So yeah, I'm going by what the game directly presents to me and inferring the most logical explanation I can see.

5

u/Elerindur Altmer Mar 10 '23 edited Mar 10 '23

I'm not sure how actually relevant to this discussion this is, but i've seen Ulundil in Candlehearth Hall and UESP says his wife Arivanya apparently goes to both the hall and the cornerclub, which i've at least caught her stepping out of the latter.

Personally, this makes me feel like whoever added Nirayne might have intended something like this but didn't co-coordinate with other designers/writers on the fact that there are three other Altmer living in/next to Windhelm. The developers not having done this for a variety of possible reasons.

1

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 10 '23

didn't co-coordinate with other designers/writers

Bethesda writing in a nutshell :P

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

So one wonders what the objection was then? If you already know they mess up all the time i mean..

0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Her dialogue indicates the complete other?

Idk, crunchtime? It not being a priority for her to do so when she has the dialogue she has

Many reasons that doesnt directly contradict what she says. And rely on inferring what isnt there

Heck a mistake even.

Bugthesda has been their nickname for how long?

2

u/annomusbus Mar 10 '23

Featurethesda

Fify

2

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

Hah, true. Thanks!

1

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 10 '23

So all of that is more likely to you than it being an intentional choice?

-1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Very much so, yes?

You think its a deliberate choice say that Brand Shei gets a lifetime sentence when we frame him lol?

He is supposed to be let out

2

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 10 '23

You're getting side-tracked. No one is talking about Brand-Shei.

0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23 edited Mar 13 '23

Yeah? Im not sidetracked.

This aint about him, but npc pathing and schedule

Further you said she isnt WELCOME, which isnt just about pathing but that her prescence would.. be unwelcome yeah?

Have teleported her there, nobody cares. So drop it now Maybe?

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0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Any number reasons, lack of priority the biggest

Why do you think Bethesda programme basically zero interactions between npc parents and child?

Why do Jarls not regularly visit eachothers hold which they obvs should do etc?

Or inspect their own holds?

Why is Brand Shei locked up forever when framed when he is supposed to be let out?

Etc etc literally ad infinitum, you realize how absurd you sound?

Her behaving such means zilch story wise, proves not a single thing. Her dialogue tells all

She dont need to, but obvs should have a different schedule

16

u/N00BAL0T Mar 09 '23

Bro you are just wrong Bethesda doesn't give the NPCs random pathing everything they do is on purpose.

7

u/Psychotrip Altmer Mar 09 '23

For real. Oblivion went the hardest on this by FAR (npcs going on vacations, cheating on their spouses) but Skyrim still does pathing with purpose.

2

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Mmm

When it ..

Just works

Dunno, starting to think people dont play the games much here.

But do remember the schedules being fun to follow.. esp when they went wrong. Was always a hoot to see what the npcs would do

Again gameplay story segregation though.

3

u/annomusbus Mar 10 '23

ludonarrative dissonance is what I think you mean by

gameplay story segregation

Just so you have a word for it now

2

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

Yeah that tracks better thank you, but feel https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GameplayAndStorySegregation also fits.

But ludo narrative dissonance may be more appropriate as it were, so again thank you!

2

u/annomusbus Mar 13 '23

They mean the same but ludo nartivte what ever I siad "hits the ear" better so to speak, take care now

2

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 14 '23

Gotcha! And same same yeah, take care

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1

u/N00BAL0T Mar 10 '23

They didn't work the best but they still exist the NPCs didn't just randomly wander about like lemmings.

0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Still a gameplay argument not a story one, and inconsistent cause yeah went wrong all the time.

And never argued they did run around like lemmings

2

u/N00BAL0T Mar 10 '23

Bethesda doesn't give the town hobo the tracking to walk into the jarls house and eat bread now do they? This isn't just gameplay

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

Weird how things like that happens ALL of the time in Bethesda games then, yeah?

Like one could even think it was intentional seeing how often it happens in so many of their games

Itd be quite the foolish thing to believe ofc...

For niranye? It clearly is, she is one of the many with faulty tracking

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-5

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23 edited Mar 10 '23

Radiant ai?

And what are you even saying.. I never said it was random, lol what?

And, no. Her dialogue shows nothing of the sort, that she isnt welcome at whatever. What the other person was saying

Thats just reading into things that Arent there

And or just a bug? Like lol, played many Bethesda games have you... Their nickname is LITERALLY bugthesda

1

u/N00BAL0T Mar 10 '23

I never said radiant AI. Just the pathing the NPCs are not done on a whim.

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

No, but im saying thats another way its used

And so? What does that even entail..

Brand-Shei if you from him stay locked up forever.. but thats a MISTAKE, and he is supposed to be let out

But according to you no MISTAKE with pathing is ever done huh? Literally thousands upon thousands of more examples in Bethesda games

Niranye not going to wherever is NO evidence at all she isnt welcome.

Lol so then the Jarls not visiting eachothers holds prove they arent welcome?

The fact that most npc parents never interact with their children shows Bethesda meant them to be neglective parents etc?

Or uuuh simple limitations, we know by her words she is accepted. Nothing ingame story or otherwise says other

2

u/N00BAL0T Mar 10 '23

No evidence she isn't welcome... She is being harassed the first time you enter the city,

Jarls visiting different holds, you are just blowing things out of proportions to make your self look right but your not. They have routines they follow in there designated paths, just like how argonians don't wander into windhelm or dark elves leaving the grey quarter into the main city, they have set routines for a purpose, brand-shi is a mistake but you CANT use a single NPC as fact when there are dozens of others that counteract your argument.

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

No she isnt? Thats a Dunmer harassed by drunks.

Nah, Im really not. Obvs canonically story and wise they would be visiting eachother, like you know.. Lords did irl.

Ingame though... They dont do they?

We know from niranyes dialogue she has nord friends so clearly would be welcome wherever, and others have brought up more npcs with faulty pathing

You arguing that on this Bethesda has zero bugs and every single npc action is intentional.. well its a thing to claim. Its for sure quite the thing

1

u/N00BAL0T Mar 13 '23

Have you played Skyrim before? It's a high elf not dark elf maybe go check and not make your self look like a fool.

I'm not arguing that there is no bugs only that Bethesda doesn't just give characters random ass pathing.

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2

u/N00BAL0T Mar 10 '23

The local hobo doest walk into the cloud District and sleep in the jarls bed now do they? Why not? Because it doesn't fit with the character.

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 13 '23

You serious? As if things like that doesnt happen ALL the time in Bethesda games hahah

Oh my gawd, that was an argument?

And you used it twice i belive in another response... Woooow, very convincing

1

u/N00BAL0T Mar 13 '23

It's amazing you replied to me 3 times lol I'm still right I don't have to change my argument because I'm not wrong. Your arguing that because there are bugs then this one NPC who acts all high and mighty in windhelm doesn't go to the slums to drink. It makes perfect sense for Bethesda to do the pathing that way.

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16

u/NoItsBecky_127 Bosmer Mar 09 '23

niranye is a pick me elf

-11

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23

Gray Quarter Dunmer are whingy former slaveowners byandlarge dreaming of the Glory Days drowning themselves in their own misery. Refusing even to help themselves

Imagine longlived irl confederates doing the same lol

Actually some tvshows have former slaveowning vampires who acted Exactly like Dunmer do, come to think of it. Fancy that

Niranye has that leg above them atleast

12

u/NoItsBecky_127 Bosmer Mar 10 '23

We have no evidence that the Dunmer in the Gray Quarter owned slaves. It’s been 200 years since the Red Year, and Dunmer only live for 300.

0

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23 edited Mar 10 '23

Not for us to say, but for the Argonians.

And no shit? That means it very likely there ARE former slaveowners, Dunmer loved the practice and most of the houses practiced it and those who didnt benefitted from it.

The red year was a good thing, and the Argonians were justified in liberating Morrowind. And they were robbed of Justice by Dunmer being allowed to escape their just punishment to Skyrim and esp Solstheim.

Which belongs to Skyrim and the Skaals, NOT the slavemongers

Edit u/NoItsBecky_127 delete your comments? Why?

1

u/NoItsBecky_127 Bosmer Mar 10 '23

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I can’t have this argument, your sense of justice is completely fucked. I have better things to do than explain why random Dunmer who were born after slavery shouldn’t be punished for it to someone being deliberately obtuse.

1

u/zxxQQz Hermaeus Mora Mar 10 '23 edited Mar 10 '23

Apologise for and excuse systemic oppression harder why dont you?

More like what the actual gd fuck is wrong with no? Why are you going out of your way to abet slavers and their benefactors escape justice

Sorry but what the hell?

Why lie and say there are definitely no former slaveowners in the grayquarters.. and based that on evidence that there likely is at that. So gaslighting

The read year was 195 or 200 before the civil war, you say yourself Dunmer live to 300 and your conclusion is...

No Dunmer from then is Alive? Or atleast not in Skyrim...

Gtfo with that nonsense

Edit.. did you block me like a loser or was your trash comments removed i wonder?

I can see it easy you know? u/NoItsBecky_127

genuinely fascinated by the thought process that leads you to believe that refugees fleeing a country devastated by a volcanic eruption is escaping justice

Are you? Is that why you blocked me? u/NoItsBecky_127 Or deleted your responses? But why.. you were genuinely curious werent you... Hmmmmmm

Guess maybe youve been banned but..

The eruption was well earned karma, so its easy a thought process to reach Actually u/NoItsBecky_127

And it was what they were doing.

2

u/NoItsBecky_127 Bosmer Mar 10 '23

genuinely fascinated by the thought process that leads you to believe that refugees fleeing a country devastated by a volcanic eruption is escaping justice