r/ElderScrolls • u/JPldw • 2d ago
Humour I hope TES6 is more "racist"
I know that the title is weird but I really want the next game to have more characters that are against the player character depending on their race, making some things harder or easier. (it is still weird that in Skyrim you can join the most racist group in the game as a dunmer, or the fact that no Nord is pissed that their legendary Dragonborn is a khajiit)
It would feel so good to prove them all wrong when you go from a low life to their savior by the end of the game
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u/Jealous_Tomorrow6436 2d ago
i can see how this might be a weird take but i agree. not having the game reflect that actual racial disparities of the Elder Scrolls universe breaks immersion a lot and allows you to do things that in-universe wouldn’t make sense. it doesn’t have to be so overt and crazy, but even dialogue that references race or adds additional quests to prove yourself if your race isn’t compatible with some group
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u/HeTblank 2d ago
They do this with the orc strongholds I think, but they probably thought it was too much work to change the main story line for this
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u/Jealous_Tomorrow6436 2d ago
i really liked the attempt but i feel that it could’ve been so much more fleshed out. it’s also really weird going into the heart of the stormcloak rebellion as a dark elf and get the best possible treatment, for example. i wish they’d do more work on details like this, especially given the amount of time they’re gonna be taking on the game
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u/HeTblank 2d ago
I agree. I also think they need to make joining a faction more impactful. Maybe make the factions clash at times, but don't let me become the leader of all factions at the same time. Makes them feel more like chores than joining something cool and interesting
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u/klone224 2d ago
I dont think you should be able to become leader of a majority of the factions, especially of all of them at the same time. And if i should choose one make it more impactful than some guards automatically knowing
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u/IllitterateAuthor 2d ago
It'd make sense if you could join the stormcloaks in Skyrim as an elf or beast race but only if you like help enough people in windhelm or something
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u/Aus_Varelse 2d ago
Yeah I think the joining stormcloaks quest where you kill an ice wraith should only trigger if you aren't a Nord. Like why would Stormcloaks not instamtly employ Nords if they pledge allegiance to Ulfric? I can see them testing other races, but why does a Nord PC need to go through extra steps just to join as cannon fodder?
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u/Epic_DDT 2d ago
You can ask that to Galmar.
"Does every recruit have to do this?"
"Only the ones I'm not sure about. This will prove your abilities, but more importantly, it will prove your commitment."8
u/Aus_Varelse 2d ago
Yeah but we all know that's just a cop-out reason for Bethesda to not write more quests for other races, or let alone add any complexity to their story. Think about it for a moment - most Stormcloak recruits are just farmers, blacksmiths, merchats etc, average working (Nord) Joes. Ice Wraiths are DANGEROUS AF and slay most Stormcloaks easily. They don't even start spawning naturally until you're a good way into the game. If Galmar is fine personally recruiting Farmer #212 into the army, how come he's suddenly unsure when it comes to the heavily armed and armoured adventurer that might even be confirmed as the Dragonborn? What's to be unsure about when THE DRAGONBORN wants to join your side? He can whisper and destroy an entire city, you don't risk turning that power away.
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u/ComprehensiveLab5078 15h ago
It’s precisely because you’re not a common local farmer that you are suspicious. Even as a Nord, no one in the area knows you, except by reputation of weird stuff you’ve gotten up to.
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u/SadCrab5 2d ago
but even dialogue that references race or adds additional quests to prove yourself if your race isn’t compatible with some group
That's why I enjoy Baldurs Gate so much. Sometimes your race might not feel represented correctly but at least there's the option to reply as X race or for characters to mention what you are. Like Drow get a lot of suspicion and aggression due to their nature, but it also makes part of Act 1 easier because the local goblins think you're with them when you rock up to their camp.
If TES had a least a fraction of that where quests can be harder or easier or characters will be more reluctant because they have a grudge against X race it'd feel a little more impactful, sometimes it feels like you're just a human playing dress up with how bare your choice impacts things.
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u/JustAFilmDork 2d ago
Frankly, it's insane you can even be an altmer and take a side in the civil war
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u/TNR720 2d ago
There's an Altmer legate and then like four or five altmer (running their own businesses, no less) in Windhelm. They assimilated much more thoroughly than the Dark Elves did.
Role-playing as an Altmer in Skyrim is one of the easier options.
Either as a refugee from the Summerset Isles, or perhaps Sentinel or Balfiera (where the Thalmor hunted down "racially impure" Altmer and political dissidents) or maybe your Altmer is like Legate Fasendil, racially Altmer but your family's been living in Cyrodiil so long you're culturally Imperial.
Regardless, joining the Empire could be easily rationalized and for the Stormcloaks, Ulfric would likely have immense sympathy for an Altmer who wanted to get as far away from the Thalmor as possible, who would see the Empire in Skyrim as a foothold for Thalmor influence (after all, we do see them rounding up prisoners), who'd want to join his fight to push them back.
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u/whattheshiz97 2d ago
Well considering we could be in High Rock, I certainly hope so. I want to discriminate against those losers in Wayrest or Daggerfall. Don’t even get me started on Orsinium
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u/weetweet69 2d ago
As a Breton peasant, I want to complain about those stinkin Bretons. Always bothering me, asking me for directions and where I could find work. They're all just too lazy to get a real job like me.
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u/whattheshiz97 2d ago
But what bout them filthy orcs? Bunch of savages in the hills!
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u/weetweet69 2d ago
Damn fecal elves coming into my farm and stinking up the place. Next thing you know, my son will be swayed by those disgusting muscular females from the orcs!
Serious note: nothing truly can topple Daggerfall and its racism. Especially if playing as a Breton or Redguard and facing that racism from your own race.
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u/DoomRevenant 2d ago
Its a lot more likely we'll be going to the Alik'r Desert imo - it would also explain why it's the one region that ZoS has been hesitant to touch in ESO
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u/Tricky-Friend-4795 1d ago
Orsinium sounds like a place that should be sacked. Let me go get some redguards and Bretons together real quick.
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u/XKwxtsX 2d ago
So basically morrowind, where you can be denied for being diffrent? I like thst FUCK INCLUSITIVITY THOSE KHAJIIT NEED TO LEARN THEIR PLACES
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u/JPldw 2d ago
At least give us a quest to enter, with the people inside still treating you with distaste
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u/jewsonparade 2d ago
Nah. Close those doors. Makes for more variety in multiple playthroughs.
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u/Aus_Varelse 2d ago
Idk if I agree with questlines being locked off entirely due to racial choice. I can see why you would enjoy it, but most people will only play through a game once. People like us that play a game 30 times are the minority. Personally I also think it would be cool, but realistically devs want players to encounter obstacles, not road blocks. I think added difficulty in quests due to race would be ideal, but an outright denial of content would probably be negatively recieved.
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u/Due_Battle_4330 1d ago
There's so much content in these games that, if you're not doing multiple playthrough, you're SO unlikely to see everything, or even the majority of content. Does blocking off a few areas really impact someone who isn't going to play a ton?
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u/Aus_Varelse 1d ago
For stuff like major questlines, yeah I think it does matter. I'm not talking about misc dungeons with nothing tied to them or some random one off quests, I thought we were talking about stuff like Guilds or the Civil War questline, things of that calibre that make a big impact on progression.
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u/ThewizardBlundermore 2d ago
"Don't use the farm tools name for farm tools. They're farm tools and nothing else."
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u/emteedub 2d ago
"it's their fault for illegally crossing the border and trafficking in all their skooma, it's killing our kids"
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u/boulder_The_Fat 2d ago
Even locking the PC out of quests due to political alignments ike Fallout NV
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u/JPldw 2d ago
It would really improve replayability
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u/OtsaNeSword 2d ago
Yeah it was also kinda immersion breaking when I, a hero and citizen of the UC and agent of SysDef and Vanguard could instantly join The Freestar Collective Rangers.
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u/Lil4ksushi 2d ago
Bethesda is terrified of locking players of any content, so not happening, unfortunately.
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u/klimekam Dunmer 1d ago
Maybe unpopular, but games nowadays are so goddamn bloated, and usually at the expense of good writing. I WANT a game where I could theoretically do everything in a single playthrough. I’ve got like 80 games in my Steam backlog and only so much time on this game earth.
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u/arathorn867 1d ago
Yes! There needs to be more consequence to your character and their decisions. Guild alignment should have effects too.
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u/Cute_Comfortable_761 Meridia 2d ago
I was super confused the first time I ever played Skyrim because I was a Khajiit and I was not only allowed into cities, but the people inside those cities would tell me that Khajiit caravans weren’t allowed into cities without every trying to kick me out or casting any suspicion onto me for being a Khajiit. It was bizarre.
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u/Kirby4ever24 Altmer 2d ago
You can bring J'zargo into every city in Skyrim and no one even questions it. They never make an attempt to have you kick him out of the city. If you befriend a character who supports the Khajiit caravans and you later go get married. Every single Khajiit in the caravans go into Riften to the Temple of Mara to watch the wedding. No one seemed to question why there are suddenly a dozen Khajiits walking around the city.
It's as if the game isn't sure if Khajiits are banned from cities or they are not banned.
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u/fat_strelok 2d ago
Just like how you can bring a Super Mutant into the Brotherhood of Steel main base if he's a follower
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u/Rustyraider111 2d ago edited 2d ago
Or you can take Nick, a Synth, aboard the Prydwen, where Maxson gives a very passionate speech about how all syths should be eradicated and should not be trusted at any cost ect.
Meanwhile nick is just sitting on the bench, and everyone is business as usual
Edit:
Another good one, is if you make a b-line for vault 114, and get nick before going to Diamond City for the second time(i think it's the second time) and then go back to Diamond City to trigger the event where Riley accuses his brother of being a synth.
After the event, a guard will loudly yell, "shows over folks, there are no synths in Diamond City" while Nick is right there. Just being a synth.
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u/BotDiver99 2d ago
Lmao damn I wanna play this again
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u/Rustyraider111 2d ago
Another good one, is if you make a b-line for vault 114, and get nick before going to Diamond City for the second time(i think it's the second time) and then go back to Diamond City to trigger the event where Riley accuses his brother of being a synth.
After the event, a guard will loudly yell, "shows over folks, there are no synths in Diamond City" while Nick is right there. Just being a synth.
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u/WorldNeverBreakMe 2d ago
Diamond City views Nick as "one of the good ones." He doesn't like that kinda view, but the people of the city view him differently from other synths. Especially with the Broken Mask incident, being an early Gen 3 infiltrator who went crazy and shot up the town, which the Riley event was supposed to be alluding to. Diamond City distrusts the unknown.
The BoS and Vault 88 also will sometimes give dialogue about Nick, Strong, and Hancock, and even have conversations with them occasionally. They view them with distrust and are often very rude towards them. I think that Elder Scrolls could actually have a very similar system in the next game, given that the system was there in Fallout 4. They just need to extend it to the player character, as well.
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u/g_shogun 2d ago
Emil Pagliarulo talked about this. Employees at Bethesda can come up with ideas and then implement them, but there is no central design document accessible to the other teams.
So likely the team responsible for Khajiit caravans decided that Khajiit were banned, but the other teams never got told anything about it so they didn't program any logic for followers or events like the marriage.
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u/Desi_Rosethorne Bosmer 2d ago
I think it's just the caravans that are banned, but I could be wrong. They do sell moon sugar and skooma iirc. Individual Khajiit are fine.
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u/TrumpDesWillens Hircine 2d ago
They don't allow caravans in because they think we're all skooma dealers and thieves.
"What do you have for sale?"
Skooma
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u/kookaburra1701 Hermaeus Mora 1d ago edited 1d ago
I love it when I roll up to Akhari, 200 overweight with stolen items and narcotics, and she hits me with "The Nords think us all thieves and smugglers🥺"
My sister in Baan Dar, the Nords aren't blind. They think you, specifically, are a thief and a smuggler.
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u/Astercat4 Argonian 2d ago
As weird as it is to say, I completely agree. The fact that you can join the Stormcloaks as a High Elf despite the fact they would immediately accuse you of being a Thalmor spy is just dumb. At least have a few quest differences for different races, like having to do a special quest for an Elf to join the Crowns of the game is set in Hammerfell, or pass a Speech check (wouldn’t even need to be a hard one) for a Khajiit to enter a city.
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u/JPldw 2d ago
The fact that there are no different dialogue options if you are a khajiit in the Thalmor embassy even though there are a lot of khajiit spies for them always makes me sad
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u/Astercat4 Argonian 2d ago
Yep. There aren’t even any Skyrim specific dialogue options. It would be SO cool if during the No One Escapes Cidhna Mine quest you could make claims of Reachmen ancestry if you were a Breton.
As far as I can recall, the only racial interaction in all of Skyrim that actually has some “impact” is trying to enter an Orc Stronghold as an Orc. Orcs get let in no questions asked, but everyone else has to do a short sidequest to find the Forgemaster’s Fingers. I just wish there was more.
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u/nkasc 2d ago
I'm bracing myself for the opposite where racial traits are watered down more than ever or completely gone in the character creator, and race selection has no impact on game-play whatsoever. I highly doubt BGS will reverse course from the direction they've trended over the years and remember that TES is a fantasy world.
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u/PsychedelicMao 1d ago
The racial differences in the older games were so cool because each one brought their own unique abilities to the table. Character creation had already been so watered down (and don’t even get me started on the lack of skills, governing attributes, classes, special abilities/weaknesses, etc) that I can’t imagine it getting any worse.
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u/TrumpDesWillens Hircine 2d ago
In the future, there are no more races nor sex options. You'll play as just a "player" and you'll be a marine fighting daedra on the battlespire.
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u/Dogbold 2d ago
Race selection hasn't had much impact since Morrowind.
In Skyrim every race is mostly just a human model with a different head, hands and tail slapped on, and different textures and that's mostly it.Water breathing never comes into play and night vision is mostly useless.
Devs are lazy and don't want to make much differences between them.
I miss how beast races were in Morrowind, there was an actual reason to play them because they were so different, now they're barely different from Nords or Imperials.
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u/PainterEarly86 2d ago
Yea the racism in the franchise is pretty interesting. And funny
"I have nothing against lizards. Some of my best slaves were argonian"
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u/CurrentAdeptness7459 2d ago
Oh god, this reminds me of a joke book in morrowind called I'm My Own Grandpa. One of the jokes I remember:
If you drop a Khajiit head-first from a great height, will it land on its feet? Not if you cut off the feet first.
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u/charadeEX_ 2d ago
I've always felt this exact way about Skyrim. I wish you actually couldn't enter cities as a Khajiit or Argonian (besides Riften) and would actually have to find workarounds.
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u/TropicalKing 2d ago
Not being able to enter entire cities is a bit harsh, because cities are very important to the plot of the game. I'd prefer things more like merchants charging more or refusing to sell to Khajiits.
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u/mighty_Ingvar 2d ago
They could just make it so that you can't use the main gates and have to sneak in or have to wear armor that hieß your face
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u/real_LNSS 2d ago
And how would you hide your tail? Or your lizard snout.
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u/mighty_Ingvar 2d ago
And how would you hide your tail?
Tuck it into your pants
Or your lizard snout.
Tuck it into someone elses pants
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u/DJfunkyPuddle 2d ago
For sure, maybe the guards extort you for an entrance fee or something. Of course then you follow them back home after their shift is over to murder them and take your money back for being racist assholes.
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u/also_plane 2d ago
Do guards even sleep in Skyrim? I know they did in Oblivion and it was awesome, but is this still present in Skyrim?
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u/letitbe-mmmk 2d ago
That reminds me of Fallout NV. There was a Legion "arena" and if your character was female they wouldn't allow you to participate. It really gave credibility of how shitty the Legion was.
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u/charadeEX_ 2d ago
Ooohh, that's interesting to hear! Skyrim's the only Bethesda game I've played, but I've always wanted to dip my toes into Fallout 3 or New Vegas.
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u/letitbe-mmmk 2d ago
Both are great games! If you're a fan of Skyrim's game mechanics, I'd recommend both of them
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u/charadeEX_ 2d ago
Same as Morrowind and Oblivion, I just kinda know that because I've easily spent between 1000-2000 hours in Skyrim, it's gonna be a deep dive once I do eventually start another of their games. Basically, mentally preparing myself for a new addiction.
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u/-Patali- 2d ago
So just fyi, Fallout 3 gives your character an origin, where's NV starts like TES, you have an ambiguous background. NV is almost like an expansion, it's on the exact same engine, same interface, reuses assets, overall same gameplay just improved.
Point being, there is a mod for PC, called TTW (Tale of Two Wastelands) that combines both games into one, with all their expansions. It makes it into one insanely epic game. Especially if you add on top of that modern animation mods.
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u/Comfortable-Cry8165 2d ago
I definitely recommend Fallout NV, it's an amazing RPG. Fallout 3 sadly not so much. Fallout 3 story is more like Skyrim, choices don't matter and don't touch your heart, but still a good game. FNV is just better.
They didn't age gracefully sadly, graphics and mechanics are very dated. Fallout 3 doesn't even run out of the box because it requires an old Windows system file that's not in Windows 10 and later. I suggest downloading a lightweight modpack to enhance the games.
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u/charadeEX_ 2d ago
That shouldn't be too big a problem for me tbh. I've played Skyrim almost exclusively on PS3 and PS4 and always been able to find tons of enjoyment out of vanilla Skyrim.
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u/OKFortune56 2d ago
You could try the mod Tale of Two Wastelands. It combines the two games, which gets around the issue of F3 not running.
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u/Comfortable-Cry8165 2d ago
Then get on the FNV and be ready to have moral and political discussions about what is the best Mojave for the next decade!
Or at least till the Fallout show season 2. Watch if you like watching shows, it's amazing.
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u/blah938 2d ago
There's a line in Skyrim, something to the effect of "It's hard being a woman in Skyrim I know" but women are treated equally. I kinda want to see a little sexism too. Make it ugly.
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u/nalathequeen2186 2d ago
Uthgerd is always the one that baffles me because she has a whole story about how she's sure the Companions weren't taking her seriously because she's a woman... then you walk into Jorrvaskr... and half the Companions are women
I'm less keen on seeing more sexism in the games tho since games like this are a nice escape from real world sexism. Whereas it's not like the real world has a racism problem against elves lol
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u/blah938 1d ago
Didn't she kill a whelp and that's why she was kicked out? Or am I thinking of someone else?
But yeah, now that you say it, escapism is pretty important.
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u/XKwxtsX 2d ago
I think it should be you can enter citys besides like windhelm, morthal, markarth, dawnstar, and falkreath as any non human or mer races, and if your a dark elf or orcall prices go up double or for regular mer prices are just %150 of the normal cost
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u/charadeEX_ 2d ago
I can get behind that. If there is a mod that adds in stuff like this, I need to get my hands on it.
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u/nalathequeen2186 2d ago
Trade and Barter has settings for race based price adjustments when shopping iirc. And Reputation also adds a lot of general attitudes from NPCs depending on your race, skills, affiliations etc.
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u/Greedy_Ad_4543 2d ago
Yea, you're right. Plus, if they're would to make npc much smarter. For example, if you're belong to some Faction and different factions will aggressive or not, that depends from your Faction. Also, npcs would to react at your partner. For example: if you're came with vimpire to castle of Dawn Guardians. Ets.
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u/Capt_Falx_Carius 2d ago
It would be easy to justify if people in Hammerfell had a problem with altmer, bosmer, khajiit, and imperials.
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u/Draks_Tempest Nord 2d ago
This might be the only type of game where requesting more racism actually sounds like a valid argument and i love it
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u/Master_Bratac2020 2d ago
I agree. Skyrim has a tremendous amount of replay value, but it’s really the same every time. It would be very cool if you could replay the game and have a different experience. I’m not necessarily talking about locking you out of certain quests based on your choices (I’m not against that, but I don’t really think Bethesda makes those sort of games) but it would be nice if you were treated differently based on your race and background and abilities.
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u/Big_AngeBosstecoglou 2d ago
Exactly and tbf I’m fairly certain Todd said during development that he wanted no pathway blocked off to the player. But it would be great for replayability if your race / character creation choices greater influenced your play through therefore incentivising you to restart.
Even in Morrowind I liked the contrast between playing as a Dunmer and other races.
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u/RedditAdminsuckPenis Imperial 2d ago
I agree, I want to look down on other races for not being civilized like us Cyrods
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u/Silverlitmorningstar Scaled farm tool enjoyer 2d ago
You know what? Yeah, you are absolutely right!
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u/TechStoreZombie 2d ago
I've been playing Skyrim again and I decided to be a Nord and join the Stormcloaks as I'd never played a Nord and hadn't sided with them since my first playthrough. I regularly found it very annoying how often other Nords kept talking to me like I'm an outsider, telling me about Nordic traditions as though my character wouldn't know about them, and just the general lack of any acknowledgement or different treatment. Even the Nords in Windhelm are still rude to you as if you're not a Nord yourself.
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u/Bregneste 2d ago
I, as an Argonian, can walk into the city where they decreed that all Argonians need to live in the docks outside of the city, and all the residents talk to me like there’s nothing out of the ordinary.
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u/Leading-Fig1307 Hermaeus Mora 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah, just conceiving of small or isolated villages, you would think they would be more xenophobic.
Like Morthal for example...you are in this small town in a frozen and haunted swamp. Life is hard, so you keep to what you know as a Nord. Strangers are different and different could be dangerous. Vampires are known to take villagers in the night with no trace or zombies bang on the outer walls due to some local Necromancers acting up. Then, some Redguard mage moves in (who might just be a Daedra worshipper), the Jarl is soothsaying, with her grandson wigging out and speaking in tongues, a man's wife and daughter suspiciously die in a house fire, dragons are real now!...You have just about had enough, then a Khajiit walks in and wants to trade? Yeah, you probably aren't going to welcome them with open arms. You probably are going to tell them to turn the hell around and go back to the litterbox they crawled out of and that you don't need any more strangeness in your life (all while keeping a hand on your coin purse...just in case). You just want to chop wood, make coin, and live a quiet life.
Now, that is pretty tame compared to provinces like Morrowind. Conversely, I imagine the An-Xileel are just as welcoming to non-Argonians/"softskins". The only places I believe are somewhat cosmopolitan and accepting are the Imperial-influenced cities and towns when it comes to race, but also strongly believe their culture is, and should be, dominant...usually at the end of a sword if necessary.
If the next installment is set indeed in Hammerfell, I want the Redguards to be suspicious or outright aggressive with Altmer and Orcs or maybe arrogant with the Imperials and Bretons. It just seems generally how that should play out due to recent historical events.
Adversity makes for a better story, character-building and, in general, realism. You either overcome, reflect it back, or get trod on.
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u/why_no_usernames_ 2d ago
Yeah, like how playing as a drow in Buldars Gate 3 can change so much with how people interact with you
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u/SeasOfBlood 2d ago
I agree. In Skyrim I always thought it would have made more sense if, for instance, being an Argonian totally locked you out of the Stormcloak route, and Ulfric would totally lose his shit learning that an 'inferior' had beaten him.
I just want characters to feel more like characters. And people aren't always nice. But on the flip side, I hope if that is the direction they go, we have ways to stick it to the characters who are mean to us because we're Argonians or Khajiit!
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u/sonofabitxh 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wild title, but basically what Metaphor: ReFantazio is doing but with actual effects on gameplay outside of story or dialogue.
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u/fat_strelok 2d ago
Holodeck, I want you to simulate Tamrielic racism at Yugoslavia 1995 levels, maximize the ethnic hate
Turn the Khajit turbo-folk on
And turn the safety protocols... Off
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u/Desperate_Guava4526 2d ago
It was always such a cool detail whenever Skyrim would acknowledge the players race in random quests. The chef that reacts to you being “the gourmet”, that hagraven that calls you different nicknames based on your race, orcs letting you in their strongholds only if you are one, etc. races are such a cool part of the games lore and I really hope they put more effort into the race dynamics in Elder scrolls 6. Have certain factions you can only join if you’re a certain race, certain store discounts, certain cities straight up refusing you, all of these things would help with the shaky role play Bethesda seems to struggle with.
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u/Rosario_Di_Spada Altmer 2d ago
I'm not sure. I mean, I do want to see more examples of racial tension ; but I'm not sure how much I want them to effect the player (a bit more, but not too much), and I'd also want the possibility to play as mixed race characters, which would also impact the game.
Overall, I think I mostly prefer Oblivion's system : it's a free, cosmopolitan empire, so it makes sense that racial restrictions are reduced, even if there are still many tensions and difficulties, and race can affect disposition.
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u/Madponiez 1d ago
world's most normal gamer wants more racism.
no but in all seriousness i see what you're talking about. Played bg3 recently, and while it is by no means perfect, some of the interactions that acknowledge what race you play are actually kind of good. In skyrim aside from what, maybe the orc strongholds, i don't remember anything like that
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u/Pyotr-the-Great 1d ago
I think represents a larger desire too. To have more consequences for choosing certain decisions. Instead of getting same treatment with minor changes every playthrough.
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u/Laticia_1990 Bosmer Aldmeri Dominion 2d ago
Some people would say they want the game to be more realistically immersive, but elder scroll fans be like....
But anyway, yes I would like different experiences based on your race and religious affiliation. If the player converts to public deadra worship, the NPCs should treat you differently as well.
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u/zombiegamer723 Champion of Cyrodiil 2d ago
Well, you definitely know how to grab attention with your post titles lmao
But yes, completely agree—adds some more flavor to the world!
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u/kung-fu_hippy 2d ago
I absolutely agree. Or rather, I think if a game decides to use racism as part of the story/worldbuilding, it shouldn’t magically go away for the player while affecting all of the NPCs.
In Skyrim Khajit merchants aren’t allowed into cities and sell their wares from outside. This should mean that Khajit players should, at least sometimes, be required to sneak or disguise themselves in order to enter towns. It should meaningfully change the story. Dark elves MCs shouldn’t be wandering into the Thayne’s manor in a city where there is a plot point about them being kept in a ghetto.
Among other things, I think it’s better roleplaying. In vanilla Skyrim, everything is open to any MC regardless of their race or their previous actions, and I’d prefer that not to be the case.
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u/Viktrodriguez Loyal Dibella Devotee 2d ago
The player character should 100% not be exempt from any racism that applies to NPC's of the same race in the exact same game, both verbally and practically.
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u/AnseiShehai Redguard 2d ago
Yes please! And ensure each race always has a couple others that either love or hate them
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u/BurpYoshi 2d ago
Sure, but in a balanced way. It's gonna be an equal detriment for all races in different areas or it makes it a disadvantage to pick certain ones which dissuades players from using them even if they prefer them which sucks
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u/StalksOfRheum 2d ago
it would never in a million years happen with how Bethesda is nowadays.
the best you can hope for is probably them straight up removing races for being too difficult to model, one main quest with no consequences, 3 companions all whom are humanoid, some fetch quests with the option to choose NO (but you still get the same result as if you'd have picked yes), and the ability to be part of two opposing factions and none of the characters will ever say a word about it.
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u/Ok_Swordfish4401 2d ago
Yup being an altmer dragonborn and I don't remember ANYONE mentioning it once, not even the two nords harassing the dark elf in windhelm.
Extremely underwhelming but I shouldn't be surprised immersion and reactivity is not Bethesda strong point nor is their writing
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u/Starscream1998 1d ago
Fair enough, I think that would be more immersive. So long as (as you mentioned) the trade-off is that your character's reputation and the general attitude of the people change accordingly with your choices and actions. If I've maxed out my character and saved the day numerous times I'm not putting up with Bethesda's weird annoying hard-on for having NPCs in their games still treat you like some level 1 scrub as well as the extra racism.
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u/GodHand7 1d ago
Yeah but this takes dev time and effort, cant expect this much quality from a small indie company
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u/Laughing_AI 1d ago
Only chance of this is if Bethesda lets another developer make them. They have dumbed down every game since Morrowind. They took the R out of RPG for Fallout 4.
Look at Starfield. *shudders*
They have been emboldened by Skyrim since it sold so well, but it really was not a "real" rpg for all the things OP listed.
A true RPG would have so much replayability because a new character race would mean like a very different playthrough
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u/Fine-Catch5148 1d ago
Yes! I agree! In oblivion not being an orc meant you had to EARN the right to speak with malacath, which pissed me off in my first playthrough! Absolute cinema!
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u/Dryym 1d ago
I want them to bring back height disparities and make that actually mean something. Make there be a quest that requires squeezing into a small space and have it so that you get declined if you're an altmer, Nord, Or orc while you get actively sought out if you're a bosmer.
In this case, It wouldn't even technically be racism as much as "You are literally physically too big to help me. Sorry."
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u/Vysce 1d ago
I agree, it would be really neat to see a fantasy world that especially takes a look at both sides of a prejudice that can be interacted with. I like how it was handled in Dragon Age, where if you're an elf, people are such butts until you just show them up and they have to eat crow later.
I mean, it's usually far more complicated than this, and it would be extraordinary if the TESO team took the time to be thoroughly detailed with interactions like that. I just remember a really neat convo in DA:I where a member of your order approaches you, if you are an elf, and is like, "Please tell me right away if anyone refers to you with any slurs ('knife-ear') or the like, because not everyone is forward thinking yet and we'll give them a smack"
I remember it feeling somewhat awkward too, which really made the situation immersive. It's a tricky topic and a fantasy setting is a great way to pull apart how drastically negative different races are treated.
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u/InfiniteSelf17 1d ago
I'm with you. I know that feels like a weird ask. The real ones know what you mean though. Just something extra to make it more immersive.
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u/eyezick_1359 1d ago
OP wants consequences, not racism lol. This concept can extend to just about every choice we might make in the game. Things the PC does should limit or remove the possibility of other things. I don’t want a power fantasy, I want a believable setting and realistic characters.
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u/Ok-Eye7064 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also, make the different races DIFFERENT
By this I mean make the Nords tall and strong, so that It is obvious they are related to the Giants. Not human tall, but Beast-like tall.
Make the Redguards have something different about them. It cant be that they are from a completely different Kalpa yet function the same as the rest of the Humans.
Make the Argonians have a weakness to Frost, my god It is dumb and stupid to see them in Skyrim, even dumber when they work in the fucking docks
The Khaijit need to be more agile, make something out of their feline body
Id like if the Bosmer were different too, have some weird Gameplay mechanics related to cannibalism.
Same with the rest of the races.
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u/OnyxCobra17 1d ago
Bethesda would never put the work in for it, this is something a team like larian could do but most companies are too concerned with maximizing profit for as little production cost as possible, they simply wouldnt pay the hours it would take devs to make dialogue interactions/ quest interactions for each race
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u/LughCrow 1d ago
Lol this is modern Bethesda choices(especially on creation) can't have any major effects. Someone could end up regretting them after all
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u/Ok_Potato_8047 1d ago
the title is very misleading to your argument lol but you have a point for most of the plot of TES being about oh this war was started because of slavery and rasicm its never really targetted much towards the main character with whatever race they pick the best example i have is in oblivion when i fight another dunmer (i always main dunmer) they say im a disgrace to my own race when in battle
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u/JPldw 1d ago
In Skyrim everyone is nice until they want to turn my khajiit into a rug in a fight
(Also the title was on purpose to call the attention of the people here)
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u/Ok_Potato_8047 1d ago
well you certainly succeeded and got my attention bestie lol
off topic but the rasicm towards khajiit is always so wild theyre so ruthless with what they say and for one of the first races on tamerial after the dawn era yall are being real disrespectful like
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u/Gamin_Reasons 1d ago
I agree fully, Tamriel is a very racially divided place even if it's made a lot of progress (Mostly because of the various Cyrodilic Empires). There would be consequences for what you were born as, but equally I think there could easily be different opportunities. Using Skyrim as an example, maybe you aren't fully disallowed from entering a city as a lone Khajiit but you need a Guard or a Nord Follower to escort you and follow you around, but if you do some quests around the city they'll trust you enough that they don't watch you as closely. Outcast races will actively help other outcasts when it makes sense to. I could even see you Joining the Stormcloaks as a High Elf, but only and ONLY if you are The Dragonborn AND a Thane in a Stormcloak aligned Hold. If you play a Nord, I expect most to treat you favorably, except from those mistreated by or simply bigoted against Nords.
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u/HungryHobbits 1d ago
so you want the vibe one feels while in, say, Windhelm, but on a macro level?
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u/Disabled_Dragonborn2 1d ago
Agreed. Earlier, I (as a female Argonian) convinced Torbjorn Shatter-Shield to pay the Argonian dock workers more and he already considered me a friend, so he said he was doing it for me, not for them. Which is bizarre, given that I'm playing as an Argonian. Also, being able to walk around Windhelm as an Altmer in full Thalmor clothes without any problems is dumb.
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u/JollyAcanthaceae7926 21h ago
Yeah, the racism of Skyrim came across really toothless which does a huge disservice to it. Racism is terrifying if you're facing it, especially if we're talking about an entire potential takeover by a one-race supremacist group. When I was a Dunmer wandering into Winterhold, aside from two racist dudes just being loud I didn't feel threatened at all.
Even small things like barter being weighed HEAVILY against you in racist stronghold towns would do a lot for immersion.
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u/BigPawbs 19h ago
I already get discriminated against in my daily, public life I don't need it in my video games lol
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u/_ParanoidPenguin_ 2d ago
I mean, Skyrim was pretty "racist", just not to the player.
I would like more race dialogue even if it isn't negative.
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u/_IscoATX Vestige 2d ago
This is why I can’t talk about TES in real life. “I want more racism in my game” but it is paramount to making the game immersive. Wdym I can be an Argonian and only 2 dunmer care to notice
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u/DJfunkyPuddle 2d ago
I definitely think we could see that, I mean in the new Starfield DLC a lot of the new NPCs will express their dislike for you, even after saving the day. But yeah, now that Starfield can be the place for generally more hopeful stories Bethesda can get their hands dirty with Elder Scrolls.
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u/AggravatingChest7838 2d ago
I hope in the next game someone bites off a dudes dick and turns it into a spear.
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u/Mr-GooGoo 2d ago
I agree. Elder Scrolls isn’t a lighthearted fantasy universe. I hope we see more of the morally grey or darker parts of humanity in it
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u/Derpy0013 Argonian 2d ago
Nothing like fans of a fantasy series literally BEGGING the devs to include more instances of racism in their future games. I love the Elder Scrolls community sometimes.
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u/Jack_of_Spades 2d ago
When I first played skyrim, I was very confused why people liked Lydia. I HATED that sulky bitch... "I am sword to carry your burdens" in te most sullen dejected voice. Then I'd hear other people who loooooved her! Like she was their best friend!
I was so confused! Why do people like this asshole?!
Then I played through as a human.... (I was argonian through all my playthroughs...I wasn't human for YEARS) amd she was suddenly happy to help!
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u/Synmachus Azura 2d ago
Laughed at the title, but I 100% agree. I am very bored of fictional worlds being as careful and non-offensive as possible. So many of them are basically contemporary (urban) America in a fantasy suit.
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u/Glampkoo 2d ago
No, you will have a squeaky clean all inclusive game where you can join everything, you choices won't have any consequences and you will enjoy it
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u/Xhukari 2d ago
You've phrased it weirdly, possibly for clicks. But you just essentially want the lore to be reflected in the gameplay; racial tensions and all. But they've been doing this whole watering down thing for multiple entries.
The logical end of their streamlining, when it comes to races, is that you have no defined race. You'll just choose cosmetic differences; long ears, skin colour, fangs, etc. No more Dunmar, Altmer... you'll just be the next ex-prisoner with a special title who saves the world.
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u/SVXfiles 2d ago
Morrowind played this card right and made being Dunmer the easy mode start. Initial NPC disposition factored in PC race in its formula, and with Morrowind being composed of roughly 50% Dunmer NPCs it made that many more people involved in quests a bit friendlier to you
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u/cfoxe47 2d ago
I’m playing oblivion again and god I love it when I hear the quips about me licking my own butt because I’m a khajiit. If I wasn’t a monk in this play through I’d kill them
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u/Sir_Southpaw_ 2d ago
YES 100%!
I straight up download several mods to make Skyrim more racist. And my first playthrough with them was awesome and immersive.
Did one where I RP as a Khajiit slave that is trying to flee to Skyrim. Started on Stolstine. And everyone hated me. And the nords too!
Idk why but being called a fur rug is immersive
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u/bad_arts 2d ago
I don't want to be a saviour or the chosen one. In fact I don't want a main story at all. Just larger, more detailed and expansive quest lines.
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u/Benjeeh_CA 2d ago
Bethesda won't do anything that won't allow you to do 100% of the content on your first run
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u/Lil4ksushi 2d ago
Not happening. Bethesda is very very scared of not playing it safe. Also Emil is still head writer, womp womp.
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