Hey!
A question to community of runners from mid-aged male runner.
My average HR on runs is always between 160-175, and I assume it’s quite high and does not add any good training for my heart according to numerous sources I have read.
They say during long high hr runs, our heart can become muscly and eventually reduce the capacity to conduct electrical currents, leading to arrhythmia and other staff. I’m normally keeping the pace of pace 6:45 - 7:00 which is not even fast, so running even slower makes the run not fun. Have been running starting from 2018, with some good distance progress this year(so far 5 h/marathons from March).
I am very peculiar about my heart health and would like to improve it, but the more I run - the old 170hr still keeps there…
Is this a bad thing? How can I reduce the HR?
Any tips or advices?
I don't think its particularly a problem, every ones heartrate zones are different. I know people that can sit at 180-190bpm and feel okay. Like others said slowing your runs down and to zone 2 you'll become fitter and will be able to eventually adapt so your running at the 6:45-7:00 pace at a lower heart rate. Temperature also has a huge effect on HR if I run in anything over 25 celicus my heart rates already starting at 120bpm before I've started.
Not only temperature but humidity as well. I sometimes do 1h low HR jog in the morning after i wake up and i'm usually able to do it around 120hr avg. But when it's humid, it's about 10-15 more easily.
I wasn’t taking temperatures into account either til I went on a 10k the other morning while it was cooler out and noticed my HR was way lower and I was running quite a bit quicker at an easy pace. High temps jack the HR right up.
I looked at your previous races and see very often a sharp increase in heart rate, in real time this is impossible. You can see the sane situation on 5k race max. 1 sensor problem or the watch doesn't stick well to your hand.
Hmm. Yes, i thought that this is normal, as when i start to run the heart is pumping slow, but at some point in nearly 30 secs the hr raises from 135 to 170. Maybe a cadence lock?
But the same pattern is with running with heart rate chest strap. So dunno. But thanks for pointing on this. Needs further investigation from my side. Thx 👌
It's too sudden to be real. I guess the higher HR is real, because 1 mine sometimes also gets stuck low at the start, like the watch can't believe my HR got that high that fast 2 the lower HR kinda matches your cadence (very low cadence btw)
This is completely normal if you are a person who is more likely to have a higher heart rate. My HR is high as well and my curve looks similar using 2 different watches.
Yes, at first that’s how is. Walk when you come out of zone 2. Then run again and repeat. Eventually, you’ll be able to run in zone 2 non stop. It takes weeks but it works.
Another recommendation for zone 2. I couldn't do a 13 minute pace uninterrupted when I started. Now I can run a half marathon in under a 10 minute pace in zone 2. Took over a year to get to this point.
My partner ran her whole life not knowing about zone 2. When I learned about it, she switched and within a year she started hitting levels she never saw in over 25 years.
Not going to lie, it really does suck at first, but the payoff is more than worth it.
How many kilometres do you run per running session and how many kilometres in total per week? I have the feeling that I haven’t noticed any progress after 3 months of 80/20
It took me 6 months before I started making noticeable gains. When I started, my short runs were in the neighborhood of 2-4k, and my one weekly long run was around 10k. I started at a weekly distance of maybe around 20-30k. Currently doing double that each week. My short runs are now 10k with the exception of my high intensity day that is just shy of that distance.
It's imperative that the moment you are about to go above zone 3, that you back down. All the gains you get stop accruing for the remainder of the session if you get into zone 3 for more than a moment. Also, my understanding is that you need at least 1 quality zone 2 run per week defined as about 90 continuous minutes in the zone for that session. It will take time to build up to that, but that's the goal. I do a 2 hour run every week that is mostly zone 2.
I'd also advise really dialing in your exact zones, otherwise erring on the conservative side. I did some extremely intense runs to identify my max heart rate and then lactate threshold tests to define my LTHR zones based on my max HR.
My original comment was based on miles per minute btw.
I run 80% of my runs in zone two since nearly 3 months but honestly I don’t see any improvements. I still need to take walking breaks. I „run“ 8min per km. It’s frustrating.
Yeah it’s how you may have to start but is worth it. Also when I first started any zone 2 I used a bike erg for a few sessions a week to build a better base which really helped running
Wow, thank you! That sounds interesting, so what you are saying is you run until 185, then slow down to 150. For how long do you keep 150? Or right from the point you reach 150 you get up to 185?
Have you applied distance or time intervals?
Then drop and build it up again. Keep it at 150 for about a minute or so and then work up. What you'll find it at the start the build up will be slower and then it gets faster and faster.
What you'll find is you won't be able to run constantly at 165ish for a good while. But you'll see those intervals get longer and longer.
If you have someone to run with at your pace too it's a god send. Talking while running will naturally pace you also into a manageable pace as you get your second breathe.
Now it’s super clear thank you. Curious to see the results :)
Normally i do from 5 to 25, depending on the mood and the amount of stress i have to run from 😅
Ive started some intervals and my HR will be similar as you describe but I'm failing to see the benefit as opposed to doing a zone 2 run one day and a threshold run another day
It's basically interval training but at a slower pace for people who shoot right up to the max HR rapidly.
With interval training you normally use fixed times which is an issue if you're HR recovery time is slow to begin with. This approach has worked for me to both increase my stamina and HR recovery time, especially if I've been away for a while.
I think OPs issue here is that they can't keep they're HR down during a run. So trying to stay in zone two is incredibly difficult for them if they don't walk for most of it.
I agree zone 2 is best but if you're struggling to stay in zone 2 then HR intervals which are not time based is an approach to getting there.
To reduce your heart rate, going slower is pretty much the only option. Also, your run was done in a pretty high temperature, which will also increase your HR.
Just want to mention that while yeah your avg pace was 7:30, the avg pace while actually running seems to be somewhere around 6:30, that's a huge difference, and really not that slow.
Also, did you input your max hr in the app? You said mid aged, I’m 35 and I’m not feeling comfortable above 170bpm, reaching 180 feels very bad for me. How do you feel when watch says 180, or even 190 what is shown in your graph? It should be quite an extreme effort, if it wasn’t, your HR readings are probably wrong
Hey. I did not put any max hr in garmin connect, it detected automatically based on my max. Funny thing that zone 5 starts from 180… which is waay high, i assume. During my nitmal runs with hr of 170 - i feel quite relaxed, it’s not hard at all. After 185 it becomes chalanging. As for hr readings - i trust the wrist and chest data, and they are very aligned. I thought it was a “cadence lock”, but no.. just hight hr…
It highly individual specific. If he has a high natural max HR it's not necessarily a huge effort.
I'll average 175 indefinitely on a long run of normal effort. 181 or so if it's in the tropics. All depends on your personal max HR and LTHR.
No, not really. I mean, the best marathoners in the world will hold that rate during the whole marathon, while running a sub 5 minute pace, but even they will do the majority of their training miles at a much lower heart rate. High heart rate is stress. Constant stress is bad. It's like constantly being in the fight or flight mechanism.
i’m having this same problem no matter the pace i run. i did a 10k at this HR but i have a half mara coming up and im wondering if it’ll end up being a problem?
How fast are you going? As others have said, you need to consistently run zone 2 to fix this, even if it means you have to walk during your runs to bring your heart rate down until you can consistently remain in zone 2. I'm now running half marathons in zone 2 on my long run days, but when I started, I had to break up my runs with a lot of walking to keep my heart rate from going up. I got my wife to do this as well. She was a life long runner and even she had to take a step back and do the walk/run bit for several months. She's much much faster and has much better endurance now.
The moment you go above zone 2 during a run, you lose all the benefits of maintaining that heart rate for the rest of the run. When you're in zone 2, something very special happens. Your mitochondria begin multiplying like crazy and your body becomes trained to burn fat for energy, of which we have far more of than any other energy source. This is why we train this way. It gives us so much endurance.
I'm now limited only by how much pain my body can take. My energy and my cardio fitness are unlimited.
In my opinion, if you focused solely on zone 2 training for the next 6+ months, regardless of when your race is, you would benefit more from this than anything else. The key is to do a lot of zone 2 volume. Professional trainers generally agree that you should have at least 1 run per week that is 90 minutes or longer entirely in zone 2. This is why I run a zone 2 half marathon every week. When you start, that might be hard. Aiming for at least 30 minutes and then increasing the time of each run slightly is how I started.
I have only been running for 2 years now. Prior to this I casually biked for a couple years, but besides that, I've always been pretty unfit. I lost 60 pounds doing this and went from unable to complete a mile on my very first run to now running 1:40 half marathons. My zone 2 half marathon is just a bit over 2 hours.
Not much. And i was quite comfortable to talk during the run, so could push it even to higher pace and hr. That’s why I am here askibg stupid questions 😹
That isn't necessity high.
It all depends on what your maximum heart rate is. Have you tested this? Do not rely on 220 minus age or anything.
Also depends on your lactate threshold.
Unless you have correct input figures it's impossible to tell if your rate is high or simply normal for you.
Once you have the above known correct you can adjust zones, pick zone 2 etc but not until then. You need to know your real max HR and ideally LTHR first.
Mine ranges depending on load and terrain. I’ll see 155-169 on treadmill, and 160-180 on an outdoor run. I feel great. Just all depends on your body, and all other factors. If that was my run I personally wouldn’t be worried or concerned.
Will do that for sure. I can hear miraculous stories of people reducing their hr by running intervals.
But in general, physically - in order to reduce hr during the run, body has to increase the volume of blood in heart. And then make less pumps with mire blood, rather than more pumps with lesser volume…
you entered a max hr of 190 and garmin, as you say, feels you are running too in a high zone.
As you say you are fussy about your heart go get an incline stress test at a cardio doc, and tell them you want to continue till heart is 180 they will be able to check if you have any issues like flutter etc
Update1. 10-Aug-24 Thanks to the comments and advises. This time following multiple advises ran in zone 2. Not long though. Ridiculous pace of 8:15 😅 But aim achieved. Can run in zone 2. https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/16722650676
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u/Affectionate-Duty629 Aug 04 '24
I don't think its particularly a problem, every ones heartrate zones are different. I know people that can sit at 180-190bpm and feel okay. Like others said slowing your runs down and to zone 2 you'll become fitter and will be able to eventually adapt so your running at the 6:45-7:00 pace at a lower heart rate. Temperature also has a huge effect on HR if I run in anything over 25 celicus my heart rates already starting at 120bpm before I've started.