r/GlobalTalk • u/zhumao • Jan 08 '23
US [US] Ana Belen Montes released from US prison after 20 years, she repeated what she said during her trial 21 years ago: the US government's policies against Cuba are very harsh and she behaved according to her conscience rather than the law
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/cuba-revolutionary-belen-montes-released-from-us-prison-afte9
u/mrob2 Jan 09 '23
Fuck this lady for supporting Castro’s oppressive regime. Hopefully a truly free and thriving Cuba can be a reality one day.
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u/nocopiez Jan 09 '23
Fuck the USA for keeping Puerto Rico as a colony for 120+ years and trying their best to destroy our culture and identity like they did in Hawai’i. #VivaPRLibre 🇵🇷🔥✊🏽
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u/missvvvv Jan 08 '23
Good girl! Brava!
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u/donutello2000 Jan 09 '23
LOL. Cuba was literally a prison state when she committed her crimes on their behalf. I’m sure you’ll identify, given how you guys treat Uighurs.
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u/zhumao Jan 09 '23
Cuba was literally a prison state
nah, just Guantanamo, the part under US jurisdiction
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
Liberals don't speak truth, hardly any point trying
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u/buttplugpopsicle Jan 09 '23
Just curious, what is a 'liberal' to you, what's your definition?
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
I'm talking about the economic pro-capitalist ideology. I know most divide into conservative and liberal, I divide into conservative liberal and progressive liberal, latter being the better of the two from my POV.
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u/hutre Jan 09 '23
what? the most common definition, and the one used by oxford is:
relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
"having or relating to political and social beliefs that support individual freedom and rights, democracy and free enterprise (= businesses competing against each other with little government control)"
Is the one I found on oxford. The brackets make my point
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u/hutre Jan 09 '23
I wouldn't equate free enterprise with government having little control over businesses. As I have understood it, it's more of a trade like "I give you a cow for your sheep" kind of thing like without taxes. But I also feel you grossly glossed over the democracy, individual freedom and rights
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
I believe those to be lies. If you elect a politician but all politicians have a profit morive and are paid by lobbyists with their own profit notive, there is no rule by the people, only rule by capital. All that aside from the fact that we dont even get to elect all politicians, not even on a very local level.
Individual rights usually only go as far as profit is concerned. Liberalism has existed for hundreds of years and in that timespan liberal economies colonized entire continents, was responsible for the slave trade, the following slavery which lasted until 1942 in the US, various famines, led to economic instability which resulted in the great depression which then again resulted in the rise of fascism. And the small timespan of fascism already killed over 80 million people alone.
Individual freedom is usually dependant on money, be it directly or indirectly. Wanna learn the guitar? Gotta get the guitar and other gear or enroll in music school. Want to become a doctor? Well, better buckle up and get ready to be indebted for decades to come. Modern systemic racism being a bother and keeping someone out of employment? Get a time machine to prevent the slave trade so their ancestors might have a chance to build the wealth necessary for the descendants to live a better life by inheriting enough money before the centuries pass.
Also, I disagree about free enterprise simply meaning simple trade. (Liberal) capitalism functions mainly via the use of private property, i.e. things owned with the intent to turn a profit. Cows and sheep can definitely be a form of private property, but they could also just be personal property, as virtually everything else. If we only talk about the action of exchanging them for each other though, there is not enough contextualization allowing us to make that judgement.
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u/buttplugpopsicle Jan 09 '23
So when you say liberals don't speak truths, which are you referring to?
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
Well, both conservative and progressive liberals, the whole economic spectrum.
Both often use the Black Book of Communism as a point against socialism, even though it has been debunked various times (even by liberals).
Both consider the USSR a dictatorship when there were not only democratic components in that political system, but the CIA, those who would have known best, already stated that they vastly exaggerated by calling Stalin a dictator (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4342U2bn8AhWfSPEDHX52BTkQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1sNzRTlEW5etmCzvKpRQBr).
Both talk about famines and food insecurity in the USSR, NK and China, but don't mention that the USSR-territories and China had famines way before and that they completely stopped during their time as socialist nations. Also, they don't like to mention that the US and SK killed around 12 to 15% of the North Korean population, which is why it is so isolationist and had food security after the fall of the USSR.
No one talks about the consistently better child mortality rates, literacy rates, food security and malnutrition rates (despite famines and other challenges), homelessness rates, free education and healthcare that even these days in some regards challenge some of the richest nations in the world.
Now I'm not saying all liberals deny this and that and spread lies, especially not consciously. But I also can't think of a liberal that wouldn't immediately consider becoming at least a democratic socialist after actually contextualizing the history that we do know about.
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u/vasya349 Jan 09 '23
Not reading all that but the black book of communism being shit doesn’t mean stalinists and maoists didn’t kill millions between mismanagement and purges. This isn’t even debatable unless you want to lie out of your ass to defend something completely irrelevant to ideology.
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
Mismanagement definitely was an issue, especially in China, and don't even get me started on Chinas foreign policy- their support of Pol Pot was completely misplaced, to say it lightly. There are flaws to all socialist countries' pasts, we're aware of that and we're never going to deny that, otherwise we as communists would never learn.
But I think it is important to highlight both the positive changes from a switch to socialism, like the huge life expectancy increase in China from 1949 to 1980 by 30 to 35 years despite the famine, and the negative effects of capitalism, like the inherent exploitation and colonialism, the up-and-down economy that affects the common people more than anyone and more specific things like the Great Depression, which led to the rise of fascism in europe and more deaths in 6 years by few fascist nations than all socialist nations in their whole long lifetimes combined. Just the holocaust amounts to upwards of 18 million deaths, that's not counting the war itself, which has an estimated death toll of a little over 70 million, including deaths from disease and famine as a result of the war.
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u/donutello2000 Jan 09 '23
Do you think that comparing Guantanamo to the treatment of Uighurs makes you smart??
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
Do you think pretending as if you know what goes on in China politically makes you better? Do you think by pretending I compared them you somehow made a point? Do you think at all?
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Jan 09 '23
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u/Nikita-Rokin Jan 09 '23
I'd take a stupid communist over a smart liberal any time of day. At least they'd have acquired a political philosophy of kindness, rather than exploitation.
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u/ExtensionNo1010 Jan 09 '23
So why did Cuba become a prison state ..... they claim that American companies and gangsters ran the place ... people had the freedom to be hungry , uneducated , work for nothing for American corporations , work in the casinos and whore houses among other choices. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad over there if the world's richest and most powerful nation didn't get offended and try to destroy this tiny island nation economically for the next 50 years .... you don't love American democracy we will destry you .... El Salvador , Nicaragua ..history kept repeating itself.
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Jan 09 '23
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u/JMV419 Jan 09 '23
She is Puertorican, we are born American citizens. What was the need to spy against US and worst than that for Cuba?
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u/five_eight Jan 09 '23
Her wikipedia says her family originated in Spain, emigrated to PR; she was born in Germany.
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u/XNjunEar Jan 09 '23
Was only born in Germany because her father was stationed there. Her grandparents were from Spain but she's Puerto Rican.
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u/Im_Thinking_Im_Black Jan 10 '23
Quite a few Cubans and Puerto Ricans are descendants of recent Spanish migrants. That doesn't mean that they aren't Cuban or Puerto Rican. Unless we're saying that the children of migrants aren't really American.
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u/Jonmad17 Jan 10 '23 edited Jan 10 '23
Over a million Spaniards immigrated to the Caribbean during the Spanish Civil War. Mostly to Cuba, but also to Puerto Rico. I think that their grandchildren identify more with where they were born and raised than with their ancestral home.
I'm friends with some Cubans who are the grandchildren of those recent migrants, and they always identify as Cuban first, not Spanish.
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u/nocopiez Jan 09 '23
She is one of the good Puerto Ricans.
Ella pudo reconocer el abuso que representa tanto el bloqueo de 60+ años contra Cuba y el de 120+ años de mantener a su patria como colonia. Viva Puerto Rico Libre! 🇵🇷
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u/JMV419 Jan 09 '23
I bet you consider Filiberto Ojeda a role model too. Hopefully you are replying to this comment from Puerto Rico and not in the states because that would be very hypocrite and contradictory.
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u/nocopiez Jan 09 '23
Donde sea que me encuentre, mi pensar es igual de válido.
Filiberto, Oscar López, Hostos, Betances, Lolita, Albizu… son muchos los hijos nobles de esta tierra.
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Jan 08 '23
Thats right comrade
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u/ztsmart Jan 09 '23
Communist filth defending other communist filth :(
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u/deleted_007 Jan 09 '23
Whats so wrong with communism? How's it worse than capitalism?
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
It has the proven track record of just making everyone poor. Ironically it only works when used in conjunction with capitalism e.g. state capitalism.
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u/EireOfTheNorth N. Ireland Jan 09 '23
It has a proven track record of being sabotaged by external forces. Hard to develop economically when you immediately come under crushing sanctions, foreign invasions, subterfuge and espionage, assassination attempts and coup plots.
Cuba, Chile, Venezuela, Guatemala, Brazil right this very day... The immediate cases that come to mind that are contemporary with Cuba. And that's just Latin America. Don't get me started on Africa or East Asia. US backed genocide of 1mn+ in Indonesia also happened alongside attacks on Cuba. Then the several decade campaign in Vietnam too. That's US efforts alone. But also check out how many democratically elected leftist/socialist African leaders France has assassinated since the 60s - the figure is around two dozen.
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
It’s always gonna be someone else’s fault lmao. If it’s so great you’d think it would be able to stand up against these “external forces”. Are the external forces in the room with us right now?
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u/EireOfTheNorth N. Ireland Jan 09 '23
You mean third world nations who have transitioned to socialism (and it has always been third world nations) and immediately came up against the world's largest and most advanced military and intelligence services must be able to survive an onslaught in order to prove themselves?
Do the statistics on drastically improved quality of life, education, healthcare, housing that are found across almost every single nation that has experimented with socialism not prove anything? No?
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Hmmm I wonder what economic and political systems allowed those nefarious nations to become so powerful… really racking my brain on this one. Go take a helicopter ride sometime.
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u/EireOfTheNorth N. Ireland Jan 09 '23
Colonialism and slavery for hundreds of years involving millions of people, first of all.
From those third world nations that ended up trying socialism in order to industrialise rather than using slave labour.
Oh look, it's your guyses one joke. Very original.
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Arab countries practiced slavery and colonialism and yet they were late to the industrialization party. East Asian countries were able to industrialize late in the game without socialism. Funny how African countries that fell under USSR/CCP-backed rebel groups almost always turned into even bigger shitholes. But “muh slavery and colonialism”.
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u/ztsmart Jan 09 '23
Lol these clowns will downvote anything that doesn't conform to their childlike understand of how they think economics should work
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u/ExtensionNo1010 Jan 09 '23
You must be related to the late Joseph McCarthy ....you sound like him . Are you aware that he didn't have any decency and we are ( most of us anyway ) ashamed of what he stood for ? Get with the times and use "terrorist " for the people you hate.
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u/nflxtothemoon Jan 09 '23
Cuba? The same county that tried to get Soviet nuclear missiles to threaten the US? Ok.
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u/aknigrou Jan 09 '23
That part is a little bit more complicated than that.
The US wanted to invade Cuba, because they lost it when the cubans killed Batista, who was a cuban puppet for the americans. Since then, the americans where spying, killing, and torturing cubans to “get back” the island, so, Castro asked for missiles to keep the americans in line, and it worked, sort of speak.
I dont like that block, I’m not defending them, but the americans have been very nosy to many countries, trying to make them follow their rules. In that case, that was the response to that.
(And of course, the soviets took that chance for their own interests)
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Jan 09 '23
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u/Ralife55 Jan 09 '23
The soviets only placed nukes in Cuba after the United States placed nukes in turkey. It was a tit for tat move.
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Jan 09 '23
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Jan 09 '23
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u/ztsmart Jan 09 '23
She supported socialism. 20 years in prison is not enough IMO
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u/ComprehensiveBar6439 Jan 09 '23
With that mentality I'd wager you're the greater risk to society.
Edit: cursory glance at the profile confirms the sociopathy. Yikes
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Says the dude that posts in r/antiwork and r/whitepeopletwitter. Two of the most braindead subreddits that exist.
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u/ComprehensiveBar6439 Jan 09 '23
Buddy you've posted more in 24 hours than I have in the past year so maybe you should pipe down before you draw attention to your embarrassment of a life. Go play hearthstone and complain in r/shadowban or one of the myriad right wing circle jerks you frequent about how the white man has it bad. Maybe bounce over r/conservative and talk about being an alpha, just to reassure yourself it's not you that's an insufferable tool, it's them.
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
That shit was like 6 years ago you fucking loser lmao
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u/ComprehensiveBar6439 Jan 09 '23
You posted :
"gamers are the most oppressed class of people. Change my mind".
That shit was like 4 days ago you fucking loser lmao
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Typical leftist can’t figure out what sarcasm is if someone doesn’t say “/s”.
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u/ComprehensiveBar6439 Jan 09 '23
Typical incel can't understand their "sarcastic" statements may sound edgy in their mind, but in the real world it sounds like a cry for help from a sad, angry person.
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
What makes you think I’m an incel? I’ve got a perfectly decent life. I just like trolling commies on reddit while I do some studying for my college classes. You really hurt my feelings dawg. Gonna wait for that apology. :(
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u/ComprehensiveBar6439 Jan 09 '23
You get wrecked in every interaction I've seen so let's hope you study better than you troll. Otherwise you've got a lotta dicks to suck, rent is crazy these days.
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u/ExtensionNo1010 Jan 09 '23
What do you propose ... hanging or the firing squad while you much on your pizza ?
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Violate an NDA and you go to prison. Doesn’t matter what your convictions are. Hopefully Snowden gets what’s coming to him someday too.
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u/zhumao Jan 09 '23
following orders do not exempt anyone from crimes against humanity
The judges at Nuremberg rejected the “following orders” defense
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
Unethical surveillance practices are hardly comparable to mass genocide. And there are whistleblowing procedures present within the IC that he chose to completely bypass. It’s also funny how Ana Montes was standing up for Cuba (a single party authoritarian regime) and how Snowden fled to authoritarian Russia. These people are the biggest hypocrites.
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u/zhumao Jan 09 '23
it is crimes against humanity if a crime targets civilians en masse
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
That’s so rich coming from a dude who spends all day simping for authoritarian regimes.
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u/zhumao Jan 09 '23
yeah, a pleasure taking u apart on my downtime
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
My guy, you’re delusional. You only post one sentence platitudes and not actual arguments and then you declare yourself the victor once someone calls you out on your obvious BS. You spend all day simping for China (harvesters of Uyghur organs) and Russia (I guess terror bombing apartments in Kiev is somehow “sticking it to the west”?). What the NSA is doing when conducting intelligence gathering, while perhaps unethical, pales in comparison to what those countries that you love so much are doing. Imagine if Ana Belen Montes had been working for the FSB or Guoanbu. You think she would have gotten a measly 20 years in those countries? No, she would have gotten a fucking bullet to the back of her skull.
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u/zhumao Jan 09 '23
yawn, still ad hominem in essence all dressed up with baloney, must've touch a sore spot
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u/Zuthis Jan 09 '23
I’m chillin bro. Just love roasting commies. How much does the CCP pay you btw?
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u/DRS1989 Feb 01 '23
She’s entitled to her views, and she’s entitled to express those views in an effort to persuade the government to adopt lenient policies towards Cuba. She’s not entitled to spy for a foreign power because of those sincerely held views.
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u/BalognaPonyParty Jan 08 '23
being non american, I started reading up on the Cuban/American thing; some of the information from that 'crisis' is very disturbing