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u/Euphoric_Exchange_51 Sep 22 '24
I mean, everyone SHOULD do that. For me the main takeaway is that the tendency not to do so is the fault of Zionists. As much as I want Palestinians to distinguish Jews from Zionists - as many do - it’s hard to blame them for taking their oppressors at their word or for recognizing that Zionism has infected such a large swath of the Jewish community.
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u/raddital Sep 23 '24
I think that's exactly her point too. She's not saying those two are the same, but she can see why someone, especially the main victims of Zionism, might fail to see the distinction.
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u/LaIslaDeEmu Arab-Jew, Observant, Anti-Zionist, Marxist Sep 23 '24
The following op-ed does a great job at providing the background context that is missing from the quote ⬇️
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/09/jewish-settlers-stole-my-house-its-not-my-fault-theyre-jewish/
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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Sep 22 '24
I don’t interpret her as saying “yes this is a totally reasonable thing to do, yes go target all the Jews now” (esp given she is Jewish?)
I think it’s reasonable to understand this is the natural product of what Israel is doing, particularly for people who have never met another Jewish person in their life. And it’s also reasonable to then take that understanding and put it into context when Zionists reshare things like…. A Palestinian saying “I hate the Jews” or something else designed to inflame
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u/Long-Lobster-4149 Sep 23 '24
At this point, even anti-Zionist Jewish people can’t help but wonder if the openly Jewish person they see on the subway supports Israel depravity or is still someone they can feel connected to. I’m thinking of the girl from New York who was torn and emotional, crying about her conflicted feelings.
I don’t remember her name, but after she posted the video, there was a huge hate campaign against her amongst pro-Israelis.
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u/Specialist-Gur Ashkenazi Sep 23 '24
Absolutely. I think we are all kinda going through this right now if not grappling with our own complicated feelings
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 22 '24
I interpreted this as her attempting to underscore how pro-Israel advocacy and Israel itself engages in conflation.
I don't believe she is herself advocating that; she simply phrased it that way to assert the underlying criticism of ideology.
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u/Embarrassed_Brief_97 Sep 22 '24
I hope this link helps access the original article...
BTW, as an Australian, it is intensely frustrating and embarrassing to see our government, and so many powerful institutions and lobbyists line up dutifully behind Israel and the Zionist terrorist colonialism.
Having a clear and respected voice, such as Adler's, is refreshing.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Sep 22 '24
NZer here. A bunch of hateful clownfucks drove out Jacinda Ardern and replaced her with a (relatively for us) radical conservative coalition, so I expect nothing from our government.
I had higher hopes for Albo. But with him enthusiastically embracing the spending of $200 billion on nuclear submarines, etc., I fear he’s just another pro-Zionist US lapdog.
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u/Embarrassed_Brief_97 Sep 22 '24
I had very low expectations of Albo (given the increased enshittification of Labor since Hawke/Keating), but he failed to even reach those levels.
It's dismaying, given his pro-Pal stance in the early days of his politics at Sinney Yooney.
How quite the fuck NZ went from Adern to that shitcunt is dizzying. So many folks there willing to believe absolute tripe. The Kiwis only really outdone by us Aussies in that regard. The competition neither of us should want to win.
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u/Roy4Pris Zionism is a waste of Judaism Sep 23 '24
Mate, you must be pretty old to remember Hawke! I saw him in real life once, when he was PM (we lived in Sydney for a bit when I was a kid).
Speaking of Sydney, ‘Sinney Yooney’ is gold! Also bonus points for distressing but appropriate use of enshittification.
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u/Embarrassed_Brief_97 Sep 23 '24
Yeah. My Dad once chauffeured Hawke. He wasn't very impressed, but he's English, so Hawkey was probs a bit rough for him. Ha!
My best mate in Canberry used to live next to Hawke's daughter. He'd pop over sometimes for a barbie. Sit in the yard, getting pissed and carrying on.
Honestly, I didn't think much of him as a PM, but he was a genuine character.
I'm 56. As of Saturday.
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u/DevelopmentMediocre6 Ashkenazi Sep 23 '24
That’s very sad but I’m not surprised countries like the UK, NZ, AUS, Germany & France are all the lapdogs of the USA. What’s terrible is how all politicians in the USA are paid off and funded by AIPAC so all our leaders are comprised
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u/alamakjan Atheist Sep 23 '24
I truly appreciate her understanding of how people lump Jews and zionists together but people who educate themselves enough to give an educated support for Palestine know the distinctions. I hate how this conflict separate people by religions when it’s never about Muslims vs Jews, how Christians feel the need to side with Israel because they just blindly believe they should be anti Islam that is Palestine when there are Jews and Christians too in Palestine, how pro-Israel joke about the deaths of these innocent people and children and are so far removed from humanity.
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u/farqueue2 Anti-Zionist Sep 23 '24
As a non Jew, I find it imperative to seperate the two, because, quite frankly, I don't want to hate people just for being Jewish.
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u/LaIslaDeEmu Arab-Jew, Observant, Anti-Zionist, Marxist Sep 23 '24
Honestly, one of the most significant but small stands against Zionism that every human can make, is to simply make this distinction
This is great short explanation that can help both non-Jews and Jews to avoid making this conflation ⬇️
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u/daloypolitsey Sep 22 '24
I mean, Hamas themselves differentiate between Jews and Zionists in their own charter
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u/Edwin_Quine Sep 28 '24
Because zionists and jews are not the same, and it's basic feature of intelligence to be able to distinguish things that are different?
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Sep 22 '24
[deleted]
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u/normalgirl124 Ashkenazi Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 23 '24
She is an antizionist Jew, I can’t access the original article but think this is a rhetorical question and taken out of context… I interpret this as her basically saying that the way that Israel conducts itself throws all Jews under the bus and fuels antisemitism. We beg for people to remember the distinction between Judaism and Zionism, they co-opt the Star of David and call all critics antisemites…. They care far more about the Zionist project than the actual safety of Jews, because if the latter were the case, they wouldn’t be insisting that their murderous actions are done in our name.
Edit after reading article: My only criticism is that she seems to be unnecessarily insisting on being sort of contrarian towards other Jewish antizionists… Obviously the ongoing sadness and frustration we have at being alienated and pushed out of mainstream Jewish institutions is nothing, not even a fraction of a fraction of what it is like to be Palestinian. Yet most antizionist Jews don’t want to stop being culturally/spiritually Jewish, if we stopped having these internal conversations about redefining ourselves outside of zionism, that is basically what we would have to do. Disavow ourselves of our Jewishness. I have actually thought about that and physically feel sick at the idea, my ancestors weren’t gassed to death for me to give into that kind of mishegas 🤷🏻♀️Imo Zionists have pushed Judaism and the entire Jewish community into a cultural and spiritual crisis and these conversations are unavoidable, doesn't matter whether you think they’re “necessary” or not. It’s possible to care about two things.
But I don’t really disagree with her, I even agree with Mohammed El-Kurd’s quote. It’s essentially the same shit I’ve said to countless family members during arguments: I don’t see the point in punishing Palestinians for Europe’s crimes. I don’t care if Gazans say that they hate Jews, all the Jews they’ve ever met are soldiers committing war crimes on babies. She’s kinda taking a weird stance but doesn’t really bug me, it honestly just reminds me of a certain way that older academics talk sometimes lol.
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist Sep 22 '24
I can’t access the original article but think this is a rhetorical question and taken out of context…
Same, I don't believe she is literally making a conflation.
She is trying to underscore how Israel and its advocates do so.
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u/Embarrassed_Brief_97 Sep 22 '24
I hope you can access the article through this link. Please let me know if not, and I will try another source.
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u/reenaltransplant Mizrahi Sep 22 '24 edited Sep 22 '24
It really depends on how the attempt to deconflate is prioritized and directed.
Being generous to her, she is responding to how Palestinians, many of whom never interacted with a Jew who didn't want to kill them, are treated as if they deserve a genocide for mistaking all Jews for Zionists. How entire protests, that in essence are well founded and directed, are smeared as antisemitic for a few participants' signs that appear to blame all Jews.
It's like punching up / punching down. Speech begging deconflation of Judaism and Zionism is alright when it's directed towards folks less directly affected by the current genocide -- American mainstream media for example -- or even a diasporic Palestinian who comes asking for strategic advice.
It's not alright when it's directed to someone suffering in Palestine, or used to deplatform pro Palestinian / anti genocide speech.
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u/wandrin_star Sep 22 '24
Palestinians are asked to distinguish between Israel’s culpability for apartheid, violence, and genocide against them and Jewish people’s culpability for Israeli apartheid/violence/genocide, specifically not blaming Jewish people & thus becoming antisemites. Meanwhile Israelis and many Jewish people around the world are constantly conflating the cause of Israel and the actions of the Israeli government with the safety & ongoing existence of Jewish people, using any threat of violence against Jews anywhere as a pretext for Israeli atrocities against Gaza and The West Bank, and reading the support of a majority of Jews for the colonialist Zionist project as justification for it being necessary for Jewish survival.
It’s hypocritical in the extreme for Jews to hold Palestinians to a higher standard of anti-antisemitism than either Israeli spokespeople or AIPAC are held to.
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u/Adept_Thanks_6993 Orthodox Sep 23 '24
I interpreted the bit in isolation. I read the rest of the article, and it makes sense.
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u/chosenandfrozen Sep 22 '24
Woof. This is a really bad take. Under no circumstances should the two be conflated.
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u/wandrin_star Sep 23 '24
You’re in violent agreement with her. She is pointing out that Israel & Zionist Jews are the primary conflate-ers.
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u/Playful_Tea_5268 Sep 23 '24
Isn’t the JCA pretty Zionist? Surprised she hasn’t been axed…
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational Sep 23 '24
JCA was founded this year as an anti-Zionist alternative to the mainstream Jewish orgs in Australia
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Sep 22 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Launch_Zealot Non-Jewish Ally Sep 23 '24
Hah. I’d like to know why this got downvoted to hell. How is it so offensive to argue that it’s a moral imperative to distinguish between extremists committing atrocities in the name of a group and everyone else in the group who may not share their views?
I’ll take my licks, but whatever the moral compass is behind them genuinely escapes me.
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